depression, not eating

[Kerric]

I have a 2 year old male Golden Ret. In April of this past year I got him a male Golden pup as a play mate. Since this time he has gone from 70 lbs to 58 lbs.

He seemed to tolerate the pup but was more attached to me and would rather just "cuddle" with me. I was hoping in time he would adapt.

Last week he had many tests, stool, blood, urine. Everytime came out negative. For some time we thought it was a food allergy so he ate perscription food. It was no help, he continued to loose weight.

The vet believes it is a depression issue and has put him on anti depression medication. It's been 2 days now and their is minimal change.

He refuses to eat so I am force feeding him. I have tried many commercial and homemade foods - no change.

He vet also thinks he should only be in a one dog house hold ...

Any suggestions?

[ September 30, 2001: Message edited by: Haas ]

[ September 30, 2001: Message edited by: Haas ]

[Albea]

Welcome to Pet Talk Haas. I'm sorry that your first post had to be about this subject I do volunteer work for Yankee Golden Retriever Rescue and never heard of a Golden behaving this way. Unfortunately, there's always a first time. I know that in humans the anti-depression drugs take some time to have an effect, perhaps a couple of weeks. Give them a chance to work.
Have you tried to give him yummy things like cream cheese mixed with his food?
I hope your poor baby gets over whatever ails him soon. Please let us know how he's doing and give him a big hug from me.

[Karen]

What a difficult situation! Can you feed them separately - and spend "quality time" with Golden #1 every day just before feeding him?

What are his favorite things? Foes he eat anything in particular - like cooked chicken people food or anything that you could bribe him with?

[yorkster]

Sorry to hear you're having this problem. At this point, I would give it a little more time on the anti-depressents, because they do take some time to work- at least 2 weeks, and maybe as much as 2 months. Also, I am sure your vet checked for this, but just in case he/she didn't, what about an internal perisite? (spellcheck on that). That is fairly common to pick up in the water or from another dog. Also, I had a dog years ago that had some kind of 'intestinal disturbance' the vet called it. It was a long time ago, so I don't remember what it was caused from (I think it was bacterial or maybe viral). I had to put him on a diet of ONLY hamburger and rice for quite some time. I don't remember if there were meds involved. It cleared-up after a very strict diet and NO treats whatsoever. Good luck to you, and let us know what happens.

[Sudilar]

Was his liver checked? Does he bump his head against the wall after he eats or seem like he is having any neurological problems? Are his eyes yellow or his urine orange? Are his gums pale?

Good luck to you. Did you try steak, calves liver, liver sausage?

Did you have his teeth checked?

[carrie]

This is terribly distressing for you I'm sure. You should stop force feeding at once as it is making a huge issue out of a problem. Split your dog's feed into four or five tiny meals and allow fifteen minutes of peace and quiet when the dog is on it's own for it to eat. Then remove the food without a word or a fuss. Carry on as usual.
Use tiny pieces of something smelly and tasty like cheese or liver as a reward for very short excersises - your praise for a sit( without the other dog around) needs to be very happy, very high pitched. Anything your dog eats will start to stimulate it's appetite again so even these tiny bits will help.
Mixing a little yogurt or cream cheese with his food may help - but he needs to feel secure, away from you and the pup and that there is a limited time that food will be available. Weigh the food before you give it to him so you can see if he has eaten any by weighing after rather than watching him.
Good luck - please let us know how you get on.

[Dixieland Dancer]

One thing jumps out at me with this post. First is you got your male dog a male puppy! I don't know about other breeds but this is usually not a good mix with Goldens! Especially if the puppy displays dominant traits.

Another thing that may be going on is the dog is now insecure because of your attention to the pup. I have a 3 1/2 year old female and a 5 month old pup (who is the son of my female) and she was starting to exibit signs of depression at his being around! What you need to do is show the dog he is still the number one in your heart. You need to talk to him first, feed him first, pet him first, let him out first, etc.... everything has to be him first! This is not unfair like it would be for human children. Dogs are pack animals and need to know the pack heirarcy.

Feed him special foods for now to get him eating again. Forget the dog food for a few days! Hamburger and rice is a good one to get his appetite going again. Give him Steak, Liver, Chicken, Cheese, anything he will eat. Hand feed him if you have to and do it without the pup around.

This situation is unfortunate but it can be turned around. I know you are probably thinking that this will be unfair to the pup! You are still going to show the pup you care but you need to let him know that the older dog is the higher ranking dog in the pack. Once the older dog feels less threatened by the pup then you will see his behaviour improve dramatically.

Best of Luck in solving this difficult situation. Keep us informed how it is going!

[lizbud]

I am not an expert on dog issues by any means...,but had always heard the 2nd dog
should be of the opposite sex from the first.
That by doing this the intro & relationship between the dogs would be more harmonious.
The pup is not playing "by the rules "
because he doesn't know the rules.An older
female would show him pretty quick!The older
GR here is probably totally frustrated with
the little squirt, and doesn't know what to
do about it. I hope this sitution gets
turned around for you soon.Good Luck!!

[ October 03, 2001: Message edited by: lizbud ]

[ktreva52]

Haas: I'm sorry to hear your older dog is depressed. I would like some further details: do the dogs have separate crates? Have you obedience trained either dog? Have you tried canned puppy food for the older dog? (Good nutrition and enticing smell) What kind of life routines do you have? Has anything else changed in this dog's life besides the puppy -- say a move, change in spousal situation, a new baby in the house, etc.? If not, then I would suggest obedience class for the older dog for some quality one-on-one time with you. Separate crates will allow each dog to have his own "room" and be a place for peace from the other ("No puppies allowed"). Do you free feed or feed in separate bowls at specific times? I know with puppies, it is usually necessary to feed more frequently, so it appears to the older dog that the little intruder is getting more attention. That's why I suggest the obedience work with him. It allows him to understand all the rules of the house and you will learn how to train the little squirt as well. Are you consistent in your expectations of behavior? Sometimes we allow youngsters to get away with stuff we wouldn't allow the older dog to do because they're "so cute" doing it. If necessary, feed the youngster in his crate and the older dog in the usual spot. That lets them both know who is allowed the most freedom in the house.

Anti-depressants will take at least two weeks to work and will probably be a lifetime thing unless you talk to a behavior specialist. Is that possible? Your vet might know of one. At least you know your dog is basically healthy! Are you feeding a good quality of dog food in the first place? Have you changed foods recently without a transition period?

Please know that our thoughts and prayers are with you and we all hope the older dog is getting past his depression. Let us know.

By the way, I've had same sex dogs most of the time and had very little problem with that aspect of life. I have always had females except the two males I got for my son (both of whom are in other homes, but not because of behavior problems). I've known other owners that had same sex dogs that did fine together.

[syl]

Hello Toronto - nice to see another Canadian on this site! We live in Winnipeg! Sorry to hear the problems you are having with your doggie! You said in your post that your Vet did all kinds of testing - did they tell you exactly what they were testing for? I'm not convinced that the problem is the new puppy after all this time. Did your Vet check for thyroid problems? The symptoms you describe are very close to the ones I observed with my Golden who had a thyroid problem - Just a suggestion! I also have had and do have same sex pets, both feline and canine and things always worked out within a few weeks.

[Sudilar]

How is the doggie doing now? Any better?

[dukedogsmom]

Sorry to hear about your problem. I think your dog might want to be the only dog. That's what it sounds like to me, anyway. How is it going by now?