Going into season?

**Presley** · 03-28-2002, 01:16 PM

I have a almost 5 month old pure bred black lab. Lately she has been cleaning herself like crazy and i am a bit worried this might be because she could possibly be getting ready to go into heat?
I didn't think they went into heat untill they were 6 months or older? Can anyone tell me what the heats may be like? I have heard all sorts of horro stories of what it was like for some friends dogs. I will do the pamper thing no problem but how do you get them not to chew them off?!?!? She is mainly a indoor dog. She is only ever outside when we are. She gets a great deal of time running and playing while we hike and time at the beach and so on. I am a bit unsure of how she will react to things when she goes into heat. I am also not prepared to have her spayed just yet. I got her for me for one and possibly to breed later on down the road. Any ideas?!

**carrie** · 03-28-2002, 03:50 PM

She may well be going into heat - every bitch is different and some do have a first season before they are 6 months old. Get the vet to check her in case she has an infection or other problem that needs treating.

When she does go into season you will have to be very careful even when you are with her - she will be as keen to get to dogs as dogs are to get to her!! That urge will overtake any training or bond that you usually have with her.

It is a sad thing to say but the last thing the world needs is more puppies - and for your bitch's health the sooner you can have spayed after her season is over and blood flow is back to normal the better.
I'm not trying to be nasty in any way but it may be a safer bet to have this bitch as a companion and to learn from before you decide if you are up to breeding as well. It is hard work, messy, can be dangerous for Mum and pups, is costly and emtionally exhausting - and that's just the first bit! Enjoy this bitch and learn from her before making the VERY huge jump to puppies.

**Rottie** · 03-28-2002, 06:12 PM

Most dogs shed their coat right before going into season, but your puppy might be an exception because she's so young.

**Presley** · 03-29-2002, 01:27 AM

Yes I do agree about breeding her Carrie. I am still in such a toss up with getting another lab pup later on down the road or breeding her. I would be very heart broken if something happened to her. The breeder i got her from told me they will live quite a bit longer if she gets spayed and also not to breed her untill she is 3-4yo as it takes them sometimes a bit to mature mentally. I have never bred dogs or cats but we have bred horses while i was growing up and will be breeding our mare next spring. I know how stressed those 11 months are!!

**Dixieland Dancer** · 03-29-2002, 09:01 AM

It is possible to have a first heat before 6 months, although not common. Then on the other side of the spectrum, I have seen bitches not come into season until around 18 months, again not common. For a retriever the average age is around 9 to 12 months. Signs of heat are enlarged vulva and you will be able to take a Q-tip and swab the area. If there is any residue then there is no doubt.

Bitches that are coming into season may or may not show signs. It is kind of like a human female and some experience PMS more than than others. Some blow their coats and some don't. However, they do not usually lick themselves to keep clean until they are actually in season and having a discharge.

You did not mention where she was licking. Is it her vulva or her anal area? She may not be coming into heat but displaying other signs of problems. She may need her anal glands expressed or she may even have worms. You really need to get her to the vet if you do not see any sign of discharge indicating she is in heat. The vet can tell you what is going on. Take a stool sample with you. I have problems with my Dixie and need to express her anal glands about once a week. If I don't it is non stop licking to the point where she makes herself raw.

About breeding.... It is extremely important to learn the facts and possible consequences in advance if you are contemplating breeding your dog. There are enough unwanted puppies in the world and before bringing any more into the world you need to make responsible decisions. Here are a few things to consider...

QUALITY - AKC registration is NOT an indication of quality. Most dogs, even purebred, should not be bred. Many dogs, though wonderful pets, have defects of structure, personality, or health that should not be perpetuated. Breeding animals should be proven free of these defects BEFORE even considering breeding. In short, breeding should only be done with the goal of IMPROVEMENT in the breed. This means the pups will be better than the parents!

COST - If done correctly, breeding is not a money making proposition. Health clearances, stud fees, vet fees for exams, shots, diagnosis of problems for the bitch are extensive. Each breed has recommended clearances that need to be passed before breeding. Then you have puppy costs. Again vet fees, supplies, extra food, advertising, etc. are all costly and must be paid BEFORE the pups can be sold. An unexpected cesarean, or emergency intensive care for a sick pup will make a break even litter bercome a big liability. And this is all IF you can sell the pups.

HUMANE RESPONSIBILITIES - There are three and a half million unwanted dogs put to death in pounds in the USA each year, with millions more dying homeless and unwanted through starvation, disease, automobilies, abuse, etc. Nearly a quarter of the victims of this unspeakable tragedy are purebred dogs "with papers".

THE BREEDER WHO CREATES A LIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT LIFE! Will you carefully screen potential buyers? Will you keep track of the pup to ensure it is not chained to a tree all it's life or runs lose in the streets? Will you turn down sales to irresponsible owners or will you say "YES" and not think about the puppy you held and loved now having a litter of pups every time she comes into heat, which fills the pound with more statistics --- your grandpups? Would you be prepared to take a grown puppy if the owners can no longer care for it?

There are many other things to consider. These are just a few. I am sorry if some of the questions are hard, but they need to be realized. I'm sure you will want to be a responsible, reputable breeder when and if the time is right. These are things you need to figure out ahead of time.

DO RESEARCH. ASK QUESTIONS. SEARCH YOUR HEART CAREFULLY!

**AdoreMyDogs** · 03-29-2002, 09:30 PM

AMEN, Candy!!! I fully and completely agree with you and you put it so beautifully.

I hope you reconsider breeding your lab, Presley. When you take her to the vet to have her checked out, please consider making an appointment to have her spayed while you are there.

**Presley** · 03-31-2002, 07:32 PM

Well, That is all a lot to take in. I think people who are responsible and are planning on breeding good quality dogs would get such a yelling from you. If everyone in this oh so perfect world went ahead and did just that. Where would you get your next dog from? Yes i do agree that there are way too many animals out there that don't have homes. I do not like how the attitidue came across. I came here asking a few questions not to get jumped all over because I do think I have a quality dog as does my vet and it is my right to breed her or not if I wish.
Anyways. I always found this board to be most welcoming untill I read the last 2 posts.
Thank you very much.

**lizbud** · 03-31-2002, 07:46 PM

Presley,

Please don't take offence by the opinions about breeding/
not breeding your dog. I think you said earlier that you yourself
were still 'up in the air' about whether you were really
ready to undergo that responsibility yet either. Please don't
take any of these opinions as a personal attack or something.

I personally love and admire Purebred dogs of all breeds,
but I'm sure I would never purchase one. My next dog, if
I get one, will be adopted from the Humane Society or
an Animal Shelter. Liz.

**Presley** · 03-31-2002, 08:01 PM

When i grew up well more like a baby few months to 5 yo my parents bred labs... Then from there on we got a german sheppard from a abused home and had a few other dogs after that all were adopted from the s.p.c.a. My dog now is the first pure bred dog I have ever owned. I adore her and she is my pride and joy. I have no idea what I would like to do with her breeding wise. I have just been focused on her training and thinking about what sort of field work/water work we will do. Anyways. I am offended at the attack of words. I came here to seek some answers. Another thing is I have not been around a bitch in years so i'm a bit worried for how she is behaving lately. I guess I will go to my vet or breeder I got her from with any questions. I don't want to sound horrible. I do appoligise if I do. I just wanted some help.

**Dixieland Dancer** · 04-01-2002, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Presley
I am also not prepared to have her spayed just yet. I got her for me for one and possibly to breed later on down the road. Any ideas?!

Presley,
I think you may of read emotion into my post that was not intended. As far as breeding goes, I was not saying Yea or Nay. I was only giving you things to consider in helping you make your decision. Basically I was sharing my opinion on things that a reputable breeder needs to consider before breeding. You need to determine if this is best for you and your girl.

I do not want to discourage you from breeding. I only want you to consider the facts and understand what all is involved. Most people who breed will tell you afterwards that they did not realize all that was involved. I have bred a litter and know the joy it can give, and the worry and work!

I still would like to know where your girl is licking herself. I would think by now if she was in season you would know it. They tend to leave their trail around even though they try to keep themselves really clean.

**Stenograsaurus** · 04-01-2002, 11:32 AM

Oh, Presley, I am so sorry you took offense to what Candy said. I am certain she meant nothing by it. You asked for advise on breeding and Candy is the expert here on that. She has done it and I'm sure she carefully considered everything she had posted before doing it.
By the way, Welcome to PetTalk!!

**Presley** · 04-01-2002, 06:04 PM

Candy,
She is licking herself. This is why i thought she might be going into heat. My mom told me when they start to mature a little they sometimes do tend to lick/clean herself. I have not taken her to the vets for 2 reasons, Easter and a friend of mine has her sister and her sister has started to lick herself. She has not left any other signs of a heat cycle at all. No swelling and no discharge at all. She is a very active little pup and if I leave her for any length of time she will lick and not stop for anything. All I have been trying is to keep her busy! Anyways I am getting her in to get her chipped tomorrow and I will ask if this can be looked at as well. She was born November 11th so I guess she might be getting close to going into heat.

**Dixieland Dancer** · 04-02-2002, 08:01 AM

I hope the vet can help you determine what is going on. Let us know what he says.

**Presley** · 04-02-2002, 02:40 PM

My vet says she looks fine. I feel a bit lost. Maybe all this licking is just her mature a bit.. I don't know but i am going to keep a eye on this and if she changes any i will bring her back to the vets.

**carrie** · 04-03-2002, 03:30 AM

I'm glad the vet visit checked out - I think the problem may just be that you are keeping too close an eye on this behaviour!!

Try to ignore her every time she begins this - physically turn away from her without speaking to her or looking at her.

She may have YOU very well trained to speak to her every time she wants you to - if this is the case be prepared for the behaviour to get worse before it gets better as she will double her efforts - it has always worked before....why not now???