I need some advice about Bailey....PLEASE!

[nanaberry]

We started obedience classes last week, didn't go to well. Bailey just won't listen. It is so hard to control a 6 month old puppy that weighs almost 60 lbs! She learns quickly because it only took about a week and she uses her doggie door like a pro. I just can't control her... I realize that most of the time she is just excited but her playing gets really rough. She has left bruises and drawed blood. I used the pennies in a jug and it worked for a while but now it just makes her more excited. When I try to get ahold of her collar to take her to her room (6x6 laundry room where her dog door is) she falls flat on her back and goes limber.. there is no way I can pick her up and I don't want to drag her because I'm afraid I'll hurt her. As soon as I let go she starts misbehaving again. Can anyone help me? I'm at wits end. I love her so much and need to get her under control before she gets any bigger. Thanks

[Dixieland Dancer]

What kind of dog are we talking about? At 60 pounds at 6 months this must be one very large breed dog! Does the dog get excited over food?

The best way to get a dog who loves food to do what you want is with food lures. Next time the dog goes limp and refuses to move show her a treat and make her do what you want before she gets it. Never give treats unless the dog does what you want.

Here is an example of how to teach the basic sit command using food as the lure/reward. Take a food lure in your right hand between your first and second finger. Have the food so you can have all 5 fingers extended but the food stays beween finger 1 and 2. With the dog in front of you standing, take the right hand and place the food lure about 3 inches from the dog's nose. In a sweeping motion (fingers still extended) move your hand over the top of the dog's head until the dog is in a sitting position. As soon as the dog sits (don't hesitate) give a verbal cue such as good boy or YES or whatever you prefer and then give the treat. Do this about 20 repetitions over and over again to reinforce to the dog when I sit I get rewarded.

The next step is to move the lure from the right hand to the left. Do the same motion with your right hand but as soon as the dog sits you reward from the left hand now. You still always give a verbal cue before you give the reward. If the dog doesn't sit without the food in the right hand do another set of 20 repetitions using teh right hand and then try the left hand again.

Practice this twice a day for 10 to 15 minutes until the pup fully understands what you are telling it to do. Breakfast adn Dinner are good times. You can even take some kibble from the food bowl and place some of it between your fingers.

Once you get the left hand reward part down, you can start to reward every other time the dog sits. The dog is learning when a sweeping hand motion is made I am to sit and then I get a reward.

You will need to make sure you always have treats on you or near by.

Here's another thing I do..... I know some people use the pennies in a jar as a distraction and if you do that is fine. I do it as a reward indicator to my dogs and it works better that way for me. If you use it as a distraction disregard this part.

We have a big back yard and when I wanted to get my dogs attention I would shake the jar. Then I would call them to come to me. When they did they got a treat. I never shook the jar unless I had a treat to give them. Now when I shake the jar they come running because they know they are going to get a treat. I have a couple jars in different locations in the house and can get them to come now no matter where I am at. If I'm in the laundry room and they are in the bedroom, I just shake the can and they come running soooooo fast! You can see them literally stop whatever they are doing in their tracks and come running with treat, treat, treat on their minds.

Food can be a wonderful enticer for training. I do not beg or fight with my dogs to get them to do what I want. I especially would never pick them up to take them where I want them to go!

These are just some of my suggestions. Hopefully something I have shared can help you.

[Logan]

I don't have any good advice for you, but isn't this why you're in obedience? Your trainer should be willing to help you with suggestions on how to work through this. And if the class is just too big, maybe you should inquire about some one on one training. The deal about training is that it is "you", not the dog who really gets trained. With a proper understanding of how to go about it, you will gain confidence and become the Alpha Dog. And I don't think the training of Bailey will ever end, it is a constant thing, reminding them who is in charge and rewarding them for honoring your rules.

I know from my experiences with Honey, that positive reinforcement is the key. She never cooperated if she felt threatened, or if she thought she would be punished. And now, she is actually a pretty well behaved girl. But it took time, study, attempts at obedience class (which didn't work for Honey as she would get so upset in a new environment), and people like those on this board who patiently helped me work through things with her.

Carrie, if you're out there, I know you will have some brilliant ideas for Nanaberry. There are many others here who have had great success with training and gone on to do agility, conformance, etc. I hope they will speak up and help you. You are exactly right that now is the time to get your relationship with Bailey worked out.

Good luck.
Logan

[carrie]

Your dog is showing you that she doesn't understand what her life is all about. You need to show her exactly what makes you happy and, from what you have said, she will be more than happy to make you happy.

This is an odd age for dogs. At six months she is a baby, but, she is also far too old to take advantage of the early "key" stages of development. You need to be very clear on what your objectives are at this stage. You have to be fair to the puppy and treat it in an age appropriate way.

Training classes at this stage are a waste of time and money.

(Again, I know this will be a statement of debate!

I know there are many out there who have gained results from classes. I have advised them myself... I am talking on the information given in this specific case. I am not putting classes down. On an individual level, and only on an idividual level, is how this advice is meant to be taken.)


On a case by case level not every dog and not every owner are the same.
If started in puppy class you wouldn't have these problems now. Your dog is now too immature and lacks the basic training to cope with a full blown class. To take this particular dog to a class is too much for the dog to cope with at the moment. It is expecting too much of the dog, the owner and the trainer.

The basics of dog training are to teach the dog what you want it to do in response to commands from you.
When you are sure, and I mean 100% sure (this is where most training fails), that your dog understands what it is supposed to do then the correction phase MUST come into being.
As the dog gets better at doing this you introduce different environments where you expect the dog to comply. In a perfect world you end up with a dog that will do whatever you say, as long as it has been taught properly. This is the distraction phase.

To take a pup that has no initial teaching phase into a VERY high distraction environment is, to me, unfair on both you and the dog. You will be discouraged with, what sounds like, a very willing and intelligent dog. Your dog is going to go hyper as she doesn't have the self control or experience to know who to listen to (this is the "respect" issue) and...
"Wow! You brought me to a place where there are loads of other dogs to play with, this is great!
Who should I talk to first?
That one?
No, that one is closer!
Oh - look I reaaaallly need to make contact over there!!
Are you still here?
Did you say something?
I can't decide!!!!"
Your dog is learning nothing other than life is frustrating and that nobody is making it better (i.e. - taking control).
My final advice on this is...don't go and buy a book.
Go to the library and read at least three or four - more if you read quickly. Order them if you have to.
You cannot find a quick answer and we don't all say the same thing.
(NO, REALLY????)
You have to find a way that you understand the principles behind, that you can follow on a day to day basis and that you can be consistent with. This may be a merging of several ideas - you may choose to follow one idea for barking, another for pulling on the lead, another for her biting you - that's fine. But to make a choice you must be informed and the only way to do this is to research.
At the end of the day you sound like a really nice person with a REALLY nice dog (unless you are not telling us something!!!). You have a smart dog and it is up to you what happens next.

One thing I didn't say is.....try talking to your class trainer. If they see that you know you have problems they may be willing to help you.

Please let us know what you decide to do and how it goes.
Good luck - she sounds like a doll - let us know how it goes, please.