Yay for Kansas!

**momoffuzzyfaces** · 11-09-2005, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

I hope they teach the constitution as well!

Fails to answer my question though! What if there is another theory? Say...unintelligent design. Must that be taught?

Here's one a very dear friend of mine sent me!

Intelligent Design

They won't be teaching the Bible or any other "religion" just that some believe there is some intelligent design. They will not say that is THE answer. I'm sure if some want it taught that we all came in space ships from Mars, that may be considered too, eventually. Of course, then we are back to the where did the Martians come from problem!!!

By the way, is not the Flying Spaghetti monster intelligent?

I think the main idea is to present two independent views on creation and leave it to the individuals to decide for themselves what they believe.

**Edwina's Secretary** · 11-09-2005, 01:20 PM

If the mosquito as a means of population control is an example of intelligent design...I must question just how intelligent it is. Woldn't it be more intelligent simply to design a smaller population?

But MOFF...with all due respect...Intelligent Design IS a religious belief. And if you start teaching beliefs...where do you stop?

**Lady's Human** · 11-09-2005, 01:20 PM

ES, in the strictest scientific terms, both evolution and intelligent design are no more advanced than hypotheses. Frankly, given the lack of evidence suppoting either one, they both belong in philosophy, neither belongs in the science lab. Most theories are backed up by factual evidence, and have at least been partially proven in a lab. Laws have been tested and proven in the lab or on paper (or both). Something like the origin of life is at current unprovable by either means. Scientists have re-created the original theoretical primordial soup and come up with nothing becoming life in their experiments.

**Lady's Human** · 11-09-2005, 01:24 PM

ES, evolution has been called the largest religion of modern times by some, in other words evolution is a belief, not a proven law or fact.

As to using the mosquito as an example of intelligent population control, it's very simple. A disease carried by the mosquito eliminates the weak members of the population, leaving the strong to reproduce, and keeping a broad gene pool available for breeding.

**Edwina's Secretary** · 11-09-2005, 01:26 PM

Well...since I believe the earth is flat I would like that taught in schools as well.... as an alternative theory of course. And there are people who believe you can make gold from lead...so we better teach that as well after all....it hasn't been proven that you can't! It just hasn't been done correctly yet. And there are people who believe that some races are inferior to others. So should we teach that as well? When do you stop.

Religion should be taught in the home....or the religious school....

**momoffuzzyfaces** · 11-09-2005, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

If the mosquito as a means of population control is an example of intelligent design...I must question just how intelligent it is. Woldn't it be more intelligent simply to design a smaller population?

But MOFF...with all due respect...Intelligent Design IS a religious belief. And if you start teaching beliefs...where do you stop?

Ah, but evolution is a BELIEF too. It has never been proven to me that it exists! When someone can take a watch, take it apart, put it in a bag, shake the bag, and the watch put itself back together, that's when I'll believe in eveloution. After all, that watch has much more of a chance of becoming a watch again, since it already has all the parts that make it a watch. Evolution says one species can become an completly different one all by itself. Dogs don't evolve into cats or horses or bunnies or anything but dogs.

As for the earth being flat, you can fly around it, proving you are misguided.

**Lady's Human** · 11-09-2005, 01:39 PM

ES:

The earth is flat- this can be proven false on paper and in practice.

Gold from lead- Can be done in theory, but would require far too much in the line of resources to make it practical. Can be proven on paper, and the transmutation of elements has been done in physics labs. Most of the super heavy elements in the atomic table are the results of lab experiments.

The superiority of one "race" over another can be proven false with statistics, and every population follows the bell curve in some form.

Evolution, however, cannot be proven. Darwin's work showed the possibility of micro evolution (evolution within a species charted through the similarities and differences in bird populations) as opposed to macro evolution (one species evolving into something else completely). We have observed micro evolution (the coloration of sooty moths in europe) but have not observed macro evolution. Without proof it remains a hypothesis, and hence belongs in a class on western philosophy, not science.

**Maresche** · 11-09-2005, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Lady's Human

Without proof it remains a hypothesis, and hence belongs in a class on western philosophy, not science.

As long as intelligent design is there too (instead of the science lab), I'd be willing to call that a compromise.

**JenBKR** · 11-09-2005, 01:47 PM

IMO it would be best if evolution was not taught at all...at least not in a science class.

**JenBKR** · 11-09-2005, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Maresche

As long as intelligent design is there too (instead of the science lab), I'd be willing to call that a compromise.

I like that idea!

**Lady's Human** · 11-09-2005, 02:00 PM

Maresche,

That's exactly what I meant, sry.

**Edwina's Secretary** · 11-09-2005, 02:01 PM

And where is the evidence for Intelligent Design? I asked a guy once what you do about fossils, etc if you don't believe in evolution. He replied those were placed by the devil to entice us to not believe.

But it is not a religious thing. Yeah, right.

**JenBKR** · 11-09-2005, 02:11 PM

Fossils don't always necessarily prove or disprove evolution - and just because one person connected the devil with fossils does NOT make that any kind of belief. I am a believer in intelligent design, but that doesn't mean that I believe that fossils are not real. Actually, a more popular belief is that fossils are simply interpreted incorrectly.

No one said that intelligent design is not a religious idea, just that it is not a purely Christian idea.

**momoffuzzyfaces** · 11-09-2005, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

And where is the evidence for Intelligent Design?

Well, when I look at the billions of stars all in the sky, keeping their own orbits and not a sky full of mass chaos, I can't believe it just "happened by chance". Or that they evolved into perfect order. Or why is the earth tilted just enough to keep us from burning up one way and from freezing to death if tilted the other? Didn't "happen by chance" either. If both these happened by chance, I should have won the lottery long ago!

Fossils are in Kansas too. I see them all the time. They don't prove evolution. Just that there were once animals and plants that used to be here but died for some reason.

**smokey the elder** · 11-09-2005, 03:20 PM

The problem with verifying macro-evolution is one of time scale. Human beings do not live long enough to directly observe it. Humanity has not existed long enough to historically observe it.

Micro-evolution clearly DOES exist. Drug resistant bacteria and viruses DO exist, and were selected for by hardy individuals surviving penicillin or AZT or what have you. A bacterium's "generation" is 20 minutes. A cat, in best case, is one year. This is a factor of 26800 difference. Humans would have to have a historically continuous record of 26800 years to observe an "evolutionary" change in a cat. and that is if it occured in ONE generation. Say it take 100 generations; 2.7 MILLION years.

I rest my case.