Aggressive dog problem

[Brindie]

Hello everyone. I need to convince my black Lab mix, Artax, that I am the Alpha, not him. I would appreciate any advice from anyone familiar with this type of situation.

Looking back over our life together I realize I've spent too much time being his friend and not enough as his master, and he is now out of hand. He was crate trained for housebreaking, and used to like his crate. From the day he was neutered when he was five months old, he refused to go in his crate. I think he was caged for too long at the vet's when he needed to go to the bathroom, or else he associates the cage with the pain of surgery. Since he was already housebroken by this time, I just let it go and he has free run of the house when I'm not home. I give my dogs steaks on their birthdays. When Artax turned one, he was eating his first steak while I took some pictures and talked to him. When I tried to pet him he bared his teeth and growled. Since that day I cannot touch him while he's eating anything.

Artax is now 2 years and 4 months old and has decided he doesn't want to be touched while he's sleeping, either. A week ago he was laying beside me on the couch and growled when I petted him. He's growled every time I've touched him when he was asleep, since then. If I ignore the growling he will bite me, although he hasn't broken the skin but just lightly grabs me with his teeth.

Thinking he might be in some kind of pain, I took him for a thorough vet exam including x-rays and bloodwork. Everything seems to be fine physically with him, and he is active and full of energy.

I wanted to make my first post here a week ago but had problems getting registered. In the meantime I posted on a couple of other pet forums and have been following some of the advice I received there.

I am trying to get him to go into his crate willingly again. He absolutely freaks out when I try to get him in there. The only way I can get him in is to corner him, then put the cage opening down over him so that my floor takes the place of the cage door, and then slowly tilt it upright while putting the cage door back on. The first time I did this he put teeth marks in the cage and released his anal glands in it. Since then he hasn't bitten the cage but still does everything he can to avoid it. I was told to feed him in his cage only. If I put his food at the very back of the cage, he stretches his body out so that he can just reach it to eat with his hind end still outside the cage, and abandons the food if I try to push him all the way in. So I cannot shut the cage door while he's eating. I tried to keep the cage door shut with his food in there, and see if he'd get hungry enough to go in when I opened the door. He didn't eat anything for two days, and then ate peanut shells out of the trash. I felt sorry for him so I took the cage door off yesterday. He's been stretching himself out, grabbing a mouthful of food and then taking it into another room to eat it. Maybe after some time like this he will become more relaxed about his crate?

Artax is also not allowed on the furniture anymore. It took a few days, but he seems to accept this now, at least when I'm home. I'm sure he gets on things when I'm gone. He kept sneaking onto my bed when I was asleep, so starting last night he's been sleeping locked in the bathroom. But even when he's sleeping on the floor he growls if I touch him, or even act like I'm about to touch him.

I tried to force him into a submissive position by pinning him to the floor. He never submits though, but keeps struggling, growling, and snapping no matter how long I hold him down. I was told to stop trying this.

We've been practicing obedience a lot more. Artax has to sit before going out or coming in. He's much more responsive now, sitting immediately when I tell him or even before I say anything, instead of making me say sit several times like before. He even seems to enjoy this. We're also practicing heeling, which he hates and will only do with a choke or pinch collar and leash.

It feels like I'm at war with my dog. He's depressed, moping around with his head hanging and his tail between his legs most of the time, doesn't like laying on the floor, etc., and this is depressing me. I realize this problem took a long time to develop and I can't expect an immediate fix, but does anyone know how long it will be before I have a friendly Labrador that enjoys my attention again? Will he ever be able to lay on the couch with his head in my lap again? Any tips on additional steps I should take would be greatly appreciated. I normally take Artax about everywhere with me in the car. Could this be making him think he is equal in rank to me?

It was suggested that I take him to an animal behaviorist, but this is not practical for me. We live way out in the country, 75 miles from a city that might have such a person. It was also suggested that he might have to be euthanized. This is absolutely out of the question. I love him dearly, think of him as my son, and firmly believe getting a pet is a lifetime commitment that must be followed through with, for better or worse like marriage. I am not scared of him, and I know he can sense this. Hopefully this will help me gain control. And Artax isn't all bad. He's extremely smart, was a breeze to housebreak, never chewed up anything of mine, and does have a good heart. He's just confused right now.

I attached a picture of my babies. My other dog, Zaynah, is a 1.5 year old spayed female Boxer. They are my only two pets. They're best buddies, and Zaynah is perfectly happy being the Omega. Incidentally, Zaynah is a purebred but Artax was a "free to good home" puppy. He often gets mistaken for a purebred Lab, but from seeing his parents I know he has some Rottweiler and some Chow in him. Both of his parents were very friendly, family dogs though.

[LoudLou]

I'm sorry I don't have any suggestions about your problem with Artax but I'm sure someone will post about it shortly. Lot's of knowledgable people on this board.

I just wanted to welcome you to the board and tell ya your furbabies are adorable!!

[lizbud]

Brindie,

You definately need professional help with this dog.
If you cannot travel to an animal behaviorist, maybe
you could locate one that will come to you.The incident
you speak of (with the steak) would have been the last
straw with me. The dog would never have been allowed
to finish that meal. By hook or crook, I would have gotten
it away from him. Was this the first time he bared his teeth
at you or insisted on his own way in something ?
We have a lot of knowledgable people on Pet Talk who
can recommend ways of dealing with this problem. I
believe it can be fixed, with time, patience & professional
help.. Good luck to you. Liz.

[Brindie]

Thank you.

The first time he insisted on his own way was when he refused to go in his crate after coming home from neuter surgery. I couldn't really force him in there because I was afraid I would open up his wound pushing him around. The first time he bared his teeth was with the steak.

A couple questions - why is my picture showing up as a link instead of the picture itself being visible in the post? Also, I set my preferences to e-mail me when someone replied to a thread I participated in, but it's not sending me anything. Why is this?

[KYS]

Being a friend/master goes hand in hand. Giving love
and attention is fine.
I would not worry about the crate unless it's necessary
for you to confine him in it. I would leave the crate door open
and put bits of treats and toys in their. Let him go in and out
on his own and don't force the issue and take your time.
It might take weeks to months for him to feel
comfortable with his crate again.

Items such as a Steak is a special treat/treasure for
most dogs. At least for now I would not give him any
special treats.
(Be VERY CAREFULL since your boy is full grown.
IF you think you or others might get hurt, get a behavior trainer/
have him evaluated.)
I guess I would make Artax work for everything you give him
at this point. When you feed him, I would make him sit,
lay etc. (give him 5 minutes of basic obedience before
giving him his food bowl, toy or treats. You might also try feeding
him by hand for awhile. Scoup the food in your hand and
hand feed him. He should learn that everything comes
from you when you want to give it to him.
NOt sure if the Alpha roll on the back really works with humans.
I am sure others will give you some great advice.
To bad you do not have a good behavior trainer in your area.

Good luck

[carrie]

Oh dear, things have really gotten out of hand and out of perspective here haven't they.

Stop.

Step back.

Read a book or do some excersise - something unrelated to the dog - for half an hour, then come back and let's take a look at what's happening.

Lets take the crate to begin with. For the dog to empty its anal glands shows it was feeling EXTREME fear at the time. Why is it so important for him to go into his crate? Is it vital to your life? I don't think it is and I think that trying to force your dog to accept it is causing a lot of the conflict. Your dog was so frightened that it has been forced into defending itself, this in turn has taught the dog that it has the power and the right to defend itself.
The first steps you can take to regaining control and respect is to eliminate the conflict situations.
Put the crate in a cupboard out of sight and put a dog bed in its place.

The next area of conflict is food. It is totally natural for a dog to defend it's food. This will be increased if the dog feels threatened when eating. By insisting on touching the dog when it eats you are reinforcing its belief that it MUST defend what it feels belongs to him. Food is very important to the dog - you have given it as a gift to him then seem, to him, unsure if you really want to give it up as you remain close to it.
Steak for his birthday - even more precious than normal rations, a higher value gift that needs to be defended even more vigorously.
Remove the conflict, allow the dog to feel safe when eating and show him that he has a lower place in the pack by feeding in the way I suggest in a minute. The aim of this is to be dominant in the dogs eyes using the same method as an Alpha in a wild pack would. There is no conflict, no insecurity and no need to defend.

Get your dogs bowl onto a kitchen worktop as though you are going to prepare his food. Put a small plate next to the bowl. Put a biscuit, some grapes, anything small that you can eat-it need only be a couple of mouthfuls. Prepare the dogs food. Eat what you have chosen from the plate - the dog sees the Alpha taking the best bits of the meal as is the Alphas right. All this time you do not look at or talk to the dog - act as if he is not there. When you have finished eating (make sure you have finished chewing) put the dogs food down and leave the room. You have eaten what interests you and you have no further interest in the food. Stay away for fifteen minutes, ignoring the dog, them pick the bowl up. No conflict, no stress, no problem.

If you really want to give the dog a special treat such as steak on his birthday then cut it up into small bits and feed it from his bowl in the same way as above or hand feed as treats for correct responses to command.

If you are having problems with the dog on the furniture leave a short lead on him when in the house. Use this to remove him from furniture, staying calm. There is no need to actually say anything to him or look at him - just pick up the lead and walk away.

I'm late for work now so if you want some more ideas let me know and I will get back to you later.
Don't worry, this is not the disaster that you must feel it is. You can sort out the dogs confusion and make life pleasant and stable for the both of you again.
Good luck with it.

[Brindie]

I had been forcing him to go into his crate because people on another forum told me this was an important first step. I don't really like caging dogs. My Boxer has only been in a cage once in her life, at the vet's for spaying. Artax's crate was in storage in the garage for two years, and that's where it is again now. He seemed to become more relaxed as soon as it was out of the house.

I have given his last three meals just as you instructed, carrie (he eats twice a day). Thank you very much for the advice. I have never insisted on touching Artax when he eats. I've been leaving him alone ever since he first growled at me over steak. Should I do this permanently, and just accept the fact that I cannot touch him while he's eating? That wouldn't be a problem for me, but it seems like if he's allowed to keep me away from him at this time, he will try to do it at other times, like now with sleeping, which is not acceptable to me.

He is still growling every time I touch him while he's sleeping. It almost seems like he doesn't want to, but can't help it. Sometimes his body will shake and he'll get up and walk away, as if he's moving so that my hand won't be on him anymore, and he won't have to bite it. Then he will come back a few minutes later all submissive, licking me and wagging his tail, as if apologizing.

Do you have any tips on dealing with the sleep growling problem?

[Brindie]

Oh and I don't have any problems getting him off the furniture. He will immediately get down if I tell him, and now has learned to stay off, at least when I'm home. I'd really rather him be allowed on the furniture, but am following the advice of people who told me keeping him on the floor would help him realize he ranks lower than me. Before this problem started he slept in my bed every night and took his naps on the couch.

[carrie]

I'm so glad that the crate is out of the way. A lot of people have taken this system as THE only way to train a dog. It is a controversial method as far as I am concerned and you really have no need to use it.
By walking away from the dog when he is eating, after first eating yourself, you are stamping your dominance all over the ritual. By not touching the dog and leaving him alone to eat he can not get the idea that it is OK to growl at you because he never has to at feeding times. You have not given in to the growling - rather you have taken control of the situation, he is fed under your control and there is a clear message of dominance without any conflict. You are making the decision to walk away - the dog has not forced you to back off.

As for growling when you wake him....
I'm afraid you are asking the dog to react this way. Before you approach the dog when he is asleep speak his name, make sure he is awake and aware of who you are before you approach him. This is only fair.
(Make sure that the dog gets plenty of undisturbed sleep as well.)
Your dog does not want to bite but from his point of view you seem to be provoking him into doing it. An awful lot of dog bites result from a dog being suprised when asleep, especially child bites - the kids are playing and fall onto or against the sleeping dog. The dog has snapped before it even realises what is going on. It is a natural reaction and your dog can not help but react in this way.
You know he will have this reaction and there is nothing he can do to stop it so take away the possibility of it happening and the problem has gone.
If you wish to pet the dog when he relaxed and lying down then be fair about it. Either talk to the dog first to make him aware of you or start to pet him before he falls asleep.

I stongly agree that a dog with these problems should not be allowed on the bed with you. Your priority is to help the dog realise that it is safer and more comfortable for him to accept you as the leader as you know more about living in a human world than he can. Allowing him on the bed (or indeed the furniture) is giving him the signal that he is of the same rank as you in the pack and will only confuse him. It is a good sign that he is willing to get down when asked.

Please never force the dog into an Alpha roll - that is the quickest way to get your dog to bite you.

If I can be of any more help please let me know. You are the sort of owner that I pray for! Good luck, think strong silent type leader not hands on, calm and aloof not fussing and worrying.

[sherryvic]

I don't know if this will help or not. We have a shep/rottie male mix. He is now 2 years old and about 7 months ago he decided that he didn't want to listen to me anymore. I am the one that has been home with him the majority of the day and pretty much trained him to do his tricks and thought I had him obediance trained. (at least to the best of my knowledge.) After talking to the vet they recommended that we speak to a dog trainer. He is now in obediance training at the age of 2 for modified training. According to the trainer he lost respect for me and he now feels that he is the dominant one over me. What he does is when I tell him to do something he will grumble and growl and he has even went as far as lunging at me. This is a 110lb dog compared to my 120lbs. Not much of a difference. He would do the same thing with my fiance but not to the point that he was with me.
The best thing that you can do is talk to a very well recommended dog trainer in your area. Your local vet should be able to give you a name and number. Mac has been going for about 4 weeks now and we already see a difference.
It will take time and patience but it can be done. I hope this helps.
Sherryvic

[KYS]

Hi Brindie,

Just came across your posts on another web sight.
Kathy Diamond who is a professional Trainer/behavorist
gave you some good advice.
I was wondering how Anthrax was doing?