Barking

[slleipnir]

When ever I let my (now 3 yrs old) Lab outside for her pee or whatever..she'll howl like someones trying to break in! Most times, theres no one there..atleast that I can see/hear. Anyway, it annoys our neighors, so we got her a bark collor, which i hate using, sometimes shes bark, get the correction, then whimper and it goes off with the whimer..it just seems really mean...and then if I don't put it on she knows she can bark and doesn't hessitate to. I want her to stop. Another this is, if we are out on walks, i can't take her to the park anymore off lease or if a dog comes along...shes gone..and won't listen to me at ALL! So she doesn't go off lead..if anyone knows some good way to fix this please let me know! she doesn't seem to get enough exercise unless shes galloping around..its more fun for her also. The dog park is to far to go everyday.

[yorkster]

I would definately take some good dog obedience classes- it made a big difference with my dog!
Also a squirt water bottle for the barking (means you may have to follow her outside in the mornings for awhile). A couple of good shots right in the face, and she will be quiet. Add a little vinegar if water isn't enough- I had to do that. I agree that bark collars ARE mean.

[Stenograsaurus]

Try taking the battery out of the bark collar and just put the collar on. If the dog knows the collar is on, she might not bark for fear of getting zapped. Of course, once she tests it and nothing happens, she'll be back to barking again. There are some people on here who offer good training advice and I'm sure one of them will be helping you soon.

[Hbrika]

I will try the water thing

My rescue is very quiet except around other mouthy dogs. She has also started barking at moving lights.

This is very strange, a whole year of nothing and now she chases and barks at them. Weird no?

[slleipnir]

Josie has been to 2 obedience classes, she did very well in both (even for a ribbon for coming in 1st ) but it doesn't help with the barking. We moved, and her fence was in the back where no cars or ppl were, now theres cars a ppl. She doesn't bark if i'm outside, and with the bark collor she usually always tests it..shes pretty smart..lmao

[carrie]

The barking is not an obedience problem - it is a behaviour problem.

You have to understand why the behaviour occurs in order to correct.

In this case, bearing in mind that I don't know the dog or the owner or the circumstances, I would say this is a total territory thing.

Your dog believes that it has the job of defender of the territory....it shouldn't.

I would suggest that you do not let your dog go to dog parks for a few months.

Don't let it in the garden on it's own. Put a lead on when the dog needs toileting and as soon as any noise is made simply turn around and go back inside. (You may be sayin,"But my dog won't go to the toilet on a lead!"....It will given enough time.) When this happens don't say a word, don't look at the dog - nothing. Just turn around and go in, it is almost an accident that the dog has to follow.
Shut the door, drop the lead and read a book, watch TV, make a cup of tea but don't acknowledge the dog in any way until it has been lying down and settled for at least ten minutes.

Then, still ignoring the dog, take the electronic collar onto a hard surface and smash it to tiny little bits with a hammer, brick or other heavy object.

Call the dog to you, where you have sat down and continued your reading....and ask for a sit. If the dog complies it gets a calm praise and another chance to toilet - if not cross your arms and stare at the ceiling or get up and make another cup of tea. Wait until the dog is settled for at least ten minutes and repeat the excersise.

When you get to the outside the dog is allowed as long as it likes UNLESS it makes a noise.
-If it toilets without the noise it gets a huge praise and a little play.
- If it makes a noise you go back inside and start again.


You are telling your dog that you understand it's needs but it does not have the responsibility of gaurding the territory - that is your job as leader of the pack and you resent it thinking you can't cope. You are also strong enough to exhibit your displeasure without violence, agression or attack and will remain totally calm because you are very secure of your position.

This will take a few hours for the dog to "get" as there an awful lot of connections to establish so make sure you are fair and put aside a day to start this.

Good luck - any questions feel free to email or put on site - let us know how you decide to handle it.

[lizbud]

WAY TO GO CARRIE !!!!!
Ahemmm, Excuse me, I mean I totally agree
with the specific instructions on what to
do with an Electronic Collar !!!
Also, all the other advise on barking
as well... WAY TO GO !!!!

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: lizbud ]

[slleipnir]

Thanks for the advise. Josie knows shes been bad when she's let inside..she hangs her little head and puts her tail down. I fermly tell her No, and a little swat on the behind. I'm pretty sure its territorial. When everyone else leaves but me, and i'm upstairs (shes always with me) she'll stay downstairs by the door till someone comes home before she'll come up.

In the morning I don't have time to go outside with her, she'll use the "toilet" on her lead but I really don't have time to wait..and its VERY cold outside :[ I usually just let her out for long enough to do her buisness and let her in before she has time to bark, and tell her how good she is for not barking, and when she does bark then she doesn't get it and i ignore her. she HATES being ignored :[

The dog park isn't a problem seeing it's fenced in and she listens to me there, it's just at the park she doesn't listen usually.

Most the time she does something wrong she knwos shes bad. I just don't know how to stop it :[

[carrie]

Josie hangs her head and looks sad because you are not giving her the happy signals - she does not connect it to barking, not barking, going for a poo or not going for a poo. She has no idea why sometimes you are happy that she is coming in and sometimes you are really cross, agressive and violent.

Dog language is such that it is so easy for us to humanise it - the major challenge for training a dog is to understand that the dog is telling you things as though you were a dog, not as if it was a human or as if it was talking to a human.

Your dog understands that sometimes it is ready to come in and you are pleased to see it and welcoming - it can see this as soon as it looks at you out of the corner of it's eye (you will not know when the dog has seen your reaction in it's periphial vision) - it also knows that it needs to come in even if you are cross and are going to attack it physically.....it does not know what makes the difference between the reception it gets.

This is why you have to accept the dog behaving as it does until you have the real time to spend explaining, in the dog's language, that it really doesn't have to.

Please, please, stop giving, what you see as an innocent swat to the but. Your dog sees it as a physical attack by a weak leader and that forces it to defend the territory ever more seriously because it believes you are not fit for the job.

Take a weekend to watch and understand what the dog is actually saying to you.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[slleipnir]

Yeah, I know..but you'd have to know Josie. If she does something bad like chew something she shouldn't.. she'll come right to me and put her ears back, which shows me shes been bad. I think she knows that shes not allowed to bark, and by letting her inside after howling (i let her in right as she barks) and tell her shes bad, and i'm sure she knows it. When she doesn't bark she comes in wagging her tail and not expecting anything, but when she barks so goes to her little bed.
I think dogs need some disaplene, it seems harsh but if they don't have any they'll never listen. I don't mean like beating them, but a little swat or punishment for being bad.

[purrley]

I just got a new puppy and I will never, never, hit her with anything. I want her to know that when my hands reach out she is going to get loved, not hit. I will never use a barking collar on her either. I think a dog can figure out everything it needs to know about its owner by the tone of a voice. Already at 11 weeks she knows when I'm not pleased by the tone I use with her. She doesn't always listen at this age but I think over time we will both know each other really well.

I used to get up at 4:30 a.m. to get ready for work, now I get up at 4:00 so I have the time to take Tess out for potty. It's cold here too and sometimes Tess takes a little more time than others to do her duty. Make time for your dog after all isn't that why you have a dog.

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: purrley ]

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: purrley ]

[carrie]

sleipner you are right that dogs need discipline in their lives and they will give respect without fail once they believe that the leader is fair, understanding and above all strongly giving the right signals.
If your dog is still barking when she shouldn't - and even if you believe that she knows she shouldn't - then you are not giving her the signals that she needs to enable her to accept you as the leader and live by your rules.
Swatting her on the butt is a very strong signal to any dog - it makes not a jot of difference which one as they all understand the same signals - that you feel strong in your position only by using physical means. The fact that the physical is ineffective strengthens the dog's view that you are a weak and fallible leader and not to be trusted with the welfare of the pack. She has no need or reason to pay attention to discipline from such a leader as by doing so she could put herself at risk (in her eyes).
However close your relationship with the dog is - she is still a dog and will understand as a dog. She is incapable of anything else.

She is reacting to weak leadership by taking it on herself to look out for the pack.

I'm afraid to stop her barking you will have to have a change of attitude or find a trainer that shares your views. There are methods that will work and can be explained in different ways but when you analyse them it all comes back to getting your dog's respect. Sadly this is misinterpreted by many as gained when they get a fear reaction from the dog.

Good luck, let us know how you are getting on - she sounds like a really great dog.

[slleipnir]

Purrley: you make it sound like i abuse my dog! I do not hurt her, and I never would, she is my baby and my life. There isn't a dog in the world that could as for more love the my dog i gareentee it. But (your dog must be different but you'd HAVE to know josie) she is VERY smart and most things do not work. I try going outside with her it works when i'm out but only when i'm out. I have school and i'm there all day come home and do homework and study, eat and make time for josie's walk and play time, after that i'm ready for bed and get up as late as possible so i can get through another day.

So i guess you all you peoples eyes i'm just a cruel heartless person, obviously you don't know me. I would go to the end of the world for my dog! and it hurts me that ANYONE would think i would hurt my dog! i don't know if thats what u mean or not but its how i'm interperting by you saying "I never hit my dog" If she never her yelled at or swatted (not throwing her across the room) then she would be out of control. It works for me with most cases. i'll just keep after it.

Yes i have gone to professional trainers and they sugest the bark color or the control ones.

Carrie, thanks for your help, but it doesn't seem to work for Josie so I will continue with what i do. I'm sorry if i sound rude or whatever but i can't stand the thought of anyone thinking i'm mean to my dog, most likely the reason she doesn't listen sometimes is becsause i give into when i punish her, which i shouldn't do and am starting not to.

I have taken her to many training things and the way i learned to train is from profesionals with different thoughts from you ppl. So i'm sorry i'm rude i just get offesive very easily to my little girl.

P.S: Does anyone at all think this way of training is down right cruel and inhumane? Please tell me because I only want to do whats right for my dog, but shes not hurt at all by it, she just wants my affection.

[lizbud]

Hi, just wanted to say that I"M SURE that
NOBODY on this board thinks that you are
being cruel or abusive to Josie !!!
Sounds like you are really trying very hard
to handle a lot of things by yourself right
now. I understand that you also want to do the "right thing" to help Josie..
Please hang in there & just think about
the ideas other people are offering to try
and help both you & Josie...
It's not that you are a cruel uncaring
person, just that maybe another person's
experience might help you out..
I can say for sure, that people on this
forum only mean to help with the problem
you brought up about barking.
If there was any comment from me that hurt
your feelings, I'm truly sorry. It's very
obvious that you love your labbie girl or
you would not have asked for opinions on
getting her over this problem in the first
place...Best of luck to you & Josie !!!

[slleipnir]

lizbud, thank you. I have tried what some of the ppl have told me and so far it hasn't worked any better then what i'm trying.