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Thread: Tesoro's Cancer: Need Advice

  1. #1
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    Dec 2003
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    Tesoro's Cancer: Need Advice

    Hello All,

    I am looking for advice/guidance/input from other forum members about my sweet and beautiful boy Tesoro who is now 4 years old. Tesoro is an Italian Word that means treasure or my darling. I adopted Tesoro, a chocolate lab/german shepherd mix as a 8 week old pup who was abandoned in a local public park and running free. He kept going up to people and playing with them and the people figured out someone must have abandoned him. So the people called the police and he ended up in the dog shelter from which I adopted him.

    Tesoro is a joy to me. He is very vocal and talks alot. He loves to play frisbee and fetch. He is sweet and good natured. He was extremely active playing frisbee/fetch with me at least an hour a day until July of 2003. Starting in June 2003, Tesoro developed a cough that wouldn't go away. He quit playing frisbee and I took him to the vet 4 times that month over the cough which just kept getting worse and the antibiotics weren't working.

    My vet sent me to a famous major veterminary school/animal hospital here in New York. They did a chest xray and found nodules in Tesoro's lungs. They told me they thought he had cancer and admitted him. Over the next few days of many tests, they determined that Tesoro has Lymphoma type B Stage 5. It was advanced and it went into Tesoro's lungs and Bone Marrow. Tesoro didn't exhibit any signs of illness until that cough showed up and the cough showed up before his lymph nodes even swelled. So his symptoms presented in an unusual order and even though he was under a vet's care, I didn't know he had cancer until it had really invaded many of his systems.

    Anyway, I've had Tesoro under Chemotherapy treatments since July of 2003. What has happened so far is that the cancer stays in remission until the Chemo is stopped. As soon as the chemo is stopped, it seems to come back. It happened once around November and it may be happening again. His 'last' chemo treatment was in March and they said to bring him in for a physical next week.

    Today, Tesoro was coughing again this morning and I think the cancer is coming back again. I have a vet appointment for him on Wednesday.

    My question is: How do you know when your dog has had enough treatment?

    Tesoro has not wanted to go up to the vet hospital -- when it is time to load him in the car, he runs back in the house and hides. He used to love car rides but if he senses we are going to a vet, he puts up a struggle and runs and hides in the house. So I've been trying to counter that association by taking him in the car for an icecream cone or to the bank or to a park where dog owners walk their dogs.

    Tesoro doesn't want to take pills anymore. He used to happily take "meatballs" with pills in them. Now he runs and hides if I offer "Meatball" medication. And he tries to sort out the pill and spit it out and he looks miserable if I take a more proactive approach by hiding the pill in peanut butter and putting it way back in his throat and holding his muzzle so he can't spit out the meds. He gets very upset and trembles. It makes me feel terrible as an owner because I'm trying to give the meds to take care of him and he doesn't want me to give him meds.

    Tesoro hates any side effects of the treatment. If he develops hot spots and has to wear a cone, he is miserable and stressed. Without the cone, he licks his paws until they'd be mutilated. He clearly hates wearing the cone!

    I have really struggled to keep him alive by spending thousands of dollars on his treatments. I did it for him because I love him and wanted to help him live. I didn't question the amount because I felt I should do everthing I could for him.

    But now, I am starting to question if in effect, am I torturing him with these chemo treatments. So how do you know when the dog has had enough? I feel very heartbroken and conflicted about this. I thought I was doing the right thing by getting this chemo for him to extend his life and am now starting to question if he wants to continue with this? I plan to discuss this with my vet on Wednesday because I trust her and feel she might have ideas.

    I am worried that the cancer is coming back and that Tesoro might not want more chemo treatment. I was just going to have them start up the chemo again but am feeling conflicted and guilty like maybe I shouldn't be doing that if Tesoro doesn't want it. How do you know/read the dog and do what is best for the dog's soul and wishes? And I know that if the cancer comes out of remission, without chemo, he'd die within a couple of months. How do you know if your dog understands the consequences of not wanting treatment?

    When he was doing good on chemo, he'd be living a quality life 70% of the time being outside playing frisbee and running around like a maniac. And then he'd be indoors and seemed happy most of the time with me; he is an indoor dog except for outside playtime and walks. It seems like this month he just wants to be outside all the time in my fenced in yard and is refusing to come in. So I let him do what makes him happy and have water out for him and play frisbee with him until he gets tired. So he looks healthy and vibrant but thin even though I give him as much food as he wants. But lately I see the liveliness kind of go out of him when he is in the house and he is more mopey.

    Tesoro hates any side effects of the chemo. He doesn't like going to the vet hospital anymore and he isn't happy whenever he has to take meds. He trembles full body if he ever throws up or can't hold his bathroom until outside. I never scold him for accidents, but he gets really upset because he knows he shouldn't do that inside. I know he can't help it and I don't get upset but he himself gets this ashamed and crestfallen look on his face even though I tell him its ok and show him that I love him.

    I am really struggling with this heartbreaking experience and want to do what is best for my dog. Do any of the experienced dog owners have advice, words or encouragement or wisdom? How do you know when to stop invasive treatment or if you should proceed?

    Many thanks.
    Anna Lisa

    Attached is a photo of Tesoro:
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  2. #2
    Join Date
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    First of all; I'm very, very sorry about Tesoro.
    I'm pretty sure you'll get the same answer from most people here. He'll let you know when it's time. I don't know what else to say...you just get this feeling that it's time to let him go.

    Please keep us updated. He's such a cutie.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Tesoro is a beautiful dog. It is so very sad that his cancer
    cannot be cured, just curtailed a bit. If the constant chemo
    treatments are taking a toll on his enjoyment of everyday life,
    then you are right to question whether to continue them.

    I hope your Vet can give you more information & be of some
    help in making any decisions about continued treatments. It's
    so very sad to see our beloved pets so ill.
    I've Been Boo'd

    I've been Frosted






    Today is the oldest you've ever been, and the youngest you'll ever be again.

    Eleanor Roosevelt

  4. #4
    So sorry about Tesoro, this must be a terrible time for you. Talk to your vet,that may help. I feel that you will know when it's time.
    http://petoftheday.com/talk/signaturepics/sigpic9646_1.gif
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  5. #5
    I'm so very sorry about Tresoro. What a beautiful pup he is.
    I can understand you state of mind so well. When my first Golden developed breast cancer, she had surgery and the tumor was back in six weeks. She went through chemo, which didn't solve the problem. Finally, when the vet told me that it was spreading to her lungs, I made the very hard decision to let her go. To this day, and this was over 20 years ago, I still feel that it was the best I could do for her, as hard as it was for me.
    Talk it over with your vet. Whatever you decide to do, we know it will be based on your love for your precious pup.
    Hugs to Tresoro and you.

    "All men are created equal but none of them is equal to a dog." From the "Howard Huge" cartoon..

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    I am so sorry to hear about Tesoro.
    I agree with lizbud and others.
    If the chemo treatments are taking all the enjoyment
    out of Tesoro's life than I would think twice about
    continuing the treatments. I would defenitely
    talk to your vet about your concerns.

    Lots of Hugs Karen


    ----<---<--<{(@

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    Let me say I'm so sorry to hear what you and Tesoro have been going through over the last year. I'm sure it's been hard on both of you.
    I'll just be echoing everyone else's reply, but I'm sure he will let you know when it's time. I hope your vet can be of some help when you visit him Wednesday.
    Please know that we are here for you.

    {{{Hugs}}}
    Anna

    Huney, Bon & Simba-missed so very much
    Remembering all the Rainbow Bridge Pets

  8. #8
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    I am so terribly sorry to hear about Tesoro's cancer. What a hard decision you have to make. My heart goes out to you and Tesoro.
    Save a life, ADOPT!!
    Sue

    Rainbow Bridge Angels: Thor, Shiloh and Killian, Avalanche and Wolf
    (RB Gaylord and Bandit, fosters who have touched my heart)

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    I'm so sorry to hear about Tesoro

    It's always such a difficult decision to make when your animals are ill. If its any help, my deciding factor has always been quality of life. Its not enough just to keep the dog alive, his life has to be enjoyable to him. Our poor animals don't know that the treatment can help--they only know that they're miserable. At some point, the misery outweighs the enjoyment, and we have to do the right thing for the dog, not for ourselves.

    In the end, I think you'll know when Tesoro has had enough. You know him the best.

    Our responsibility to our animals not only includes giving them the best life possible, but letting them end their lives with dignity.
    honor


    Greta & Cassius

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Upstate, New York
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    Thanks everyone for your kind words and good advice. I plan to discuss with the vet on Wed some alternatives that might make this a better situation for all involved. I've done alot of thinking over the weekend about what is probably stressing out Tesoro the most about treatment.

    I've come to think that taking Tesoro up to the major vet hospital really upsets and stressed him out. And although that hospital is fantastic and the staff is so expert and so caring, Tesoro has had negative experiences there where very aggressive dogs have come at him barking and snarling in the waiting room. And he doesn't like to be kenneled which is what happens at the hospital because most of the day (with the exception of when he is in a treatment room), he ends up being in a steel kennel with other oncology dogs in the same kennel room all in kennels and all are barking away.

    If I travel, I never kennel my dogs -- I hire a pet sitter. So I'll bet that Tesoro's hates being kenneled. And I know the kennel experience upsets him because during one of the more recent vet hospital treatments, at the end of the day the vet tech asked me to personally get Tesoro out of his cage in the oncology kennel because he seemed to get cage aggressive when she approached. Tesoro is a big boy and I think he scared her.

    Usually, Tesoro is such a mellow sweet natured boy. But I know that if another dog in another kennel was antagonizing him all day, Tesoro would have reacted and would have been completely upset. This type of thing must be taking a toll on Tesoro because this is a sweet dog who doesn't bite people and he isn't really a guarding type dog disposition wise. He is more of a lover and frisbee player. If a burgalar came to my house, Tesoro would run and would get his frisbee and ask the burglar to play frisbee with him!

    So I thought I'd ask my vet that if this light cough means the cancer is back and if the chemo needs to be started again, maybe my local vet can administer the chemo drugs so that Tesoro isn't getting all stressed out sitting in a kennel all day? That would also make it less stressful to me too.

    Tesoro was so happy and active this weekend. He was playing frisbee and enjoying the spring weather. He was jumping and dancing and looked beautiful. And I guess I am feeling that he does not want to go to the bridge right now. Presently, he is happily gnawing away on a huge marrow bone from the butcher. He is very content for now.

    Physically, he isn't suffering. He is happy most of the time and I'd say quality of life wise, he only is having issues around the time of chemo treatments -- like the 48hours after each treatment where he is having intestinal issues and accidents which require medications that he hates. Maybe my vet can inject those meds so I'm not 'coercing' pills on him which he objects to? I'd happily drive my dog to my vet for a daily injection if it meant I didn't have to trick him into taking pills 3 times a day for anti vomit anti diahrea meds.

    I'm willing to try another round of chemo if I can control the treatment environment more so that he isn't kenneled and getting stressed by other dogs all day. I'll post again after the Wed vet visit to let you know what my vet says.

    Thanks again to all. And if anyone has more insights they want to share, I appreciate people sharing with me. It is very helpful to me and has helped me think through this with some clarity.

    Best regards,
    Anna Lisa

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Anna Lisa,
    I am so sad to know that Tesoro is ill.
    I respect very much your opinion when you reply to the other members, you have always the right word to give; for me, it seens unfair that your dog is suffering, I can only imagine your pain.

    In the deep of your heart you will know the answer you are searching now, and it will come at the right moment. Just trust your heart, Tesoro will tell it.

    I am praying for you both.

    Rosana

  12. #12
    Anna Lisa,
    Have you tried to give Tresoro his pills hidden in something else besides "meat balls"? Sometimes they accept cream cheese or peanut butter better if they think is a treat. It has worked for my dogs.
    I do hope when you see the vet she can give you some good news. Please let us know.

    "All men are created equal but none of them is equal to a dog." From the "Howard Huge" cartoon..

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    What a lucky pup Tesoro is to have such a caring, thoughtful mom like you Anna Lisa, though I'm sure you would say that you are the lucky one What a very special dog he is and so, so valiant to have faced his illness with such courage.

    Cancer treatment is so very unpleasant, both for humans and for animals. As has been said, dogs don't understand that their discomfort may only be temporary. And as hard as we try, it is even more difficult to allay their fears and apprehensions; it breaks our hearts to see them afraid and confused. The decision to stop or to continue the chemo is a very difficult one to make and I think that a long talk with your vet will do a lot to help you sort out your feelings. If she/he feels that there is hope for an encouraging prognosis, that for me would be an important consideration in favor of continuing.

    Even humans, who have the ability to reason and comprehend what's happening to them, often become discouraged with the physical and emotional ramifications of chemo., often feeling worse before feeling better. I'm going through that right now with my Dad, a very strong. determined and positive person. Still, the after effects of the chemo often leave him feeling weak and discouraged. But after many rough days, he is finally turning the corner and is beginning to really enjoy life once more.

    In the end, if it means that person, or animal, would enjoy a decent quality of life, the company of family, continuing treatment would be something I would encourage, provided the treatment can be administered without unduly stressing or frightening him. I have known of several dogs and cats that while diagnosed at a major medical center, have been able to carry out their pet's chemo treatment at a local vet's office. I think that would be a lot less stressful for Tesoro and for you. I was so happy to read this morning that Tesoro was up and about and enjoying his day I hope and pray that Wed. will bring some hopeful news. Please give Tesoro a big hug for me. What a very special doggie he is
    Last edited by tatsxxx11; 04-12-2004 at 12:37 PM.

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  14. #14
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    Rosana,
    Thanks for your kind words and prayers for Tesoro. I really appreciate them.

    Albea,
    I've tried every other way to hide pills (cream cheese/peanut butter/salmon), etc and he has figured them all out and sorts out the pill). But thanks for your suggestion of trying alternatives. Thanks also for sharing your experience with your golden's breast cancer. I'm sorry you and your dog went through it and I appreciate your sharing with me.

    Tatts...
    Thanks for sharing your insights on cancer and chemo. Your insights were particularly helpful.

    Honor & lizbud,
    The insights on quality of life you gave helped me to think more clearly on this -- Thanks!


    And to everyone else who has posted previously on this thread, I sincerely appreciate all of your thoughts and ideas. I'll post after the vet visit on Wed to keep everyone updated.

    Thanks everyone for your support & caring words.

    Best regards,
    Anna Lisa

  15. #15
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    What a pretty smile Tesoro has. I had to put my Bruno down last June, and, I knew it was coming, but, really wasn't sure when I should do it. But, he really did let me know. I wish you the best with your friend, and, hope that things go the best direction for both of you.


    Thanks, Dogz!

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