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Thread: Bourbon's Eye is Swelling Again

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
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    Indiana
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    Bourbon's Eye is Swelling Again

    Hi ~ I'm new to this board, found it through John and Cinder and Smokey. Bourbon has a problem and I'd love your insight.

    I need your help. On May 4th, as I was going to pick up my kittens from being spayed, Bourbon came in from the dog run. I wiped away a tear from his left eye and he cried. I asked the vet about it and she said he probably bumped it and to keep an eye on it. It looked OK when I got home (around 6:15). Around 9:30 it was swelled up so much his eye was shut. I gave him Benedryl and got him to the vet on Saturday. Said it could be a tumor (in 3 hours?) or maybe a bee or spider bite. Went down right away. Well, on June 4th, same thing, except the swelling did not come up as quickly, probably 12 hours, so I got more medication, same results. Well, here we go again on Friday, June 22, went out about 6:15, got home at 9:30, eye is swelled up like a balloon. Went to the vet on Saturday, he was going to aspirate it but the swelling was everywhere, even on his snout, and he said he could not find anything to aspirate. I have Baytril now, twice a day, and Prednizone. He is going to keep him on the antibiotic for two weeks. I take him back to the vet on Wednesday, so he can look at him with the swelling down. He is stumped. The only swelling left is just about his eyebrow. I'm also putting warm washcloths on the swollen spot four times a day.

    Next vet visit: He was pleased the swelling had gone down but felt around his eyebrow and felt holes in the bone. They took an x-ray and there are about 6 holes in the bone around his eye. They don't know what from. They aspirated above his eye and are sending samples off (Culture & Sensitivity and Cytology (Clinilab)). The vet said the samples looked very mucus (sp). They are doing a CBC to see if his white blood cells are elevated indicating he's fighting an infection. We're just on the baytril now. What could it be? He's acting just fine, like there's no problem.

    The results came back; nothing really bad, but nothing good either. They don't know. CBC showed white blood cells in the high normal range. There was puss and blood along with white blood cells and other cells (medical name) which also eat away at infection. The next step is to go in and clean away the infection and see what else they find. He's been on antibiotics all this time and the swelling around his eyebrow has not gone down, but I don't think it's really swelling, more likely the puss and blood is just there. He has another appointment this Friday so I guess we'll make some decisions then. Maybe it would be best to go in and clean out everything there, but surgery scares me so.

    Well, the swelling is actually kind of hard now, not mushy like before. The vet drained some of the fluid out, bloody and pussy, about half of a large syringe full. He still doesn't know what it is. The antibiotics have not taken the swelling down much. He's given prednizone again, two times a day for 10 days, then 1 a day for 10 days, etc. We have scheduled Bourbon for another checkup on August 1 and tentatively surgery. I think the vet wants to see what the pred does. Also, I told you there were holes in the bone by his eyebrow. Well, now that bone just seems to be there, not held on to anything. I really think the vet thinks it's a tumor, but I think it is a really, really nasty infection. I don't know if I want the pred to work or not. He said if it's a mast cell tumor, it will react very well to prednizone, initially. But if it doesn't react to pred, then I've kinda ruled that out, but then Bourbon has to have surgery, and that scares me to death. I did ask if the surgery was dangerous, and he said the procedure wasn't that bad, just what they might find inside and if they can do anything about it. He called it exploratory surgery.

    Oh - when I asked the vet if it could be an abscess (sp), he said it could possibly be one.

    HELP!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
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    San Diego, California USA
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    Hi Pepper, welcome to Pet Talk, I don't know what to tell you. I know how worried you must be. Have you had a lot of experience with this Vet? I know it is expensive, but what do you think about a second opinion?
    The only eye problem I had was with Perry (Schnauzer) when my husband gave him a bath he got flea soap in his eye and it swelled and became red, and they gave us balm to put on it. Unless you have used this Vet for a long time, I think I would get a second opinion. Poor Bourbon, please let us know how this turns out, and of course we will be keeping our fingers and paws crossed that it is nothing serious.

    [ July 17, 2001: Message edited by: jackiesdaisy1935 ]


  3. #3
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    Indiana
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    Thanks for the prompt response. I have been with this vet for many, many years. There are actually four vets in this office. Of them all, I trust two the most and I have one of the two. The people who ran the tests are stumped also; they suggested surgery. Posts I received at another board I am on really seemed to point to an abscess (sp).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
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    Northeast
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    Hi Pepper. I'm so sorry to hear about Bourbon None of us here (that I know of!!) is a vet, and we would all most strongly advise you to follow your vet's advice. Like Jackie mentioned, second opinions are always an option, though you seem to feel quite comfortable with and confident of your vet. Just remember, ASK QUESTIONS!!! Before your visits, write down anything and everything that comes to your mind that you need answers to.

    I am a surgical nurse and have to agree with your vet that after having exhausted most of the less invasive diagnostic tools, e.g. blood work, attempts at aspiration, x-rays, etc., that "exploratory" surgery is probably the best (I know, very scary) route to pursue in order to definitively diagnose the problem. I know how frightening the thought is for you. But if Bourbon is in otherwise good general health, he should be just fine as far as the "exploratory" part, anesthesia goes. I would however, ask your vet what/how much experience she or he has had doing this type of surgery. And do discuss with your vet just what she or he intends to do DURING the surgery, i.e. if he/she does find a tumor, does he or she intend to excise the growth at that time??? Will a biopsy be performed first, and further surgery scheduled pending biopsy results? etc.

    The worst thing for you, and for Bourbon, is NOT KNOWING what is wrong. I would advise you to do whatever is necessary to get a diagnosis. Then at least you will know what you are dealing with and can immediately start Bourbon on the road to recovery. I know, I know, I know how scary the surgery part is for you to handle. I have spent years in OR's and recovery rooms, dealing with hundreds of cases, patients and their families, comforting and reassuring them. But when it comes to my own family, human or furry, Ahhhhhhhhhh! I'm a wreck! You just have to believe in and have confidence in your Dr.!!! But again, if you have any hesitations at all, do get a second opinion, and don't be concerned about offending anyone. Sometimes two heads are better than one! And about the date for the tentative surgery...And chance of doing it earlier??

    Bourbon is obvioiusly having an infectious/inflammatory response to something!! It is perplexing, however, that the intensive course of antibiotics and Pred. have not yet significantly affected the now hard swelling. And your mention of "holes in bone???" Did he ever mention anything about his sinuses? Is he having any drainage from his nose? Was a second testing for CBC/Cytology/C&S done after the first?

    I am including an excerpt from a Vet. Info. site regarding a response posted by a Vet. regarding treatment of mast cell tumors. I most certainly am NOT saying that is the cause of Bourbon's problems. But, in the event that it might be a growth, I thought it might help allay some of your fears as surgical treatment along with a course of Pred. and or radiation is often a very successful course of treatment.

    Bourbon sounds so special. And, being a friend of our wonderful friends "Phred," Cinder and Smokey, I know you too are very special as well. It's so scary when are furkids are not feeling well! And worst of all, they can't "tell us" "what's wrong or how they feel!" They rely on us to make those decisions, and do our best for them. You certainly are doing that, and more.

    I know everyone here will be keeping you and Bourbon in our hearts, our thoughts and our prayers. Please keep us informed as to his progress, OK? And give him the biggest hug you can manage!! I hope you "stay with" us and let us help you deal with this; the people here are so special, and understand everything you are going through!

    Love to you and your precious Bourbon. Sandra

    Here's an excerpt from the Vet. Info. Board:

    A: I found the information on mast cell tumors from the seminar I attended recently. The speaker was Dr. Rodney Page from the North Carolina State University College of Veterinary Medicine.

    According to the statistics provided by Dr. Page, approximately 50% of mast cell tumors are curable with aggressive surgical removal. Mast cell tumors spread easier in the superficial skin so it is most important to get a wide surgical margin around the edges of the tumor but it is still important to get as deep as possible, as well. It is probably a good idea in any dog affected by mast cell tumors to use prednisone at chemotherapeutic doses for about 6 months post surgery. If there is no evidence of further tumor growth at that time, gradual discontinuation of prednisone is OK. If the tumor appears to be very aggressive based on the pathologist's evaluation (moderately to poorly differentiated), then it may be a good idea to consider radiation therapy, too, if that is an option in your area. The combination of surgery, radiation therapy and chemotherapy seems to give the best chance of long term control according to Dr. Page

    [ July 17, 2001: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

    [ July 17, 2001: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

    Star,Tigg'r , Mollie and the10 Gallon Gang!

    And my Rainbow Bridge Furangels...Jingles, Cody, Fritz, Chessa, Satin, Buddy, Lizzie, Oliver, Squeaker, Moonbeam, Rosie, Ruby~

  5. #5
    Welcome to Pet Talk, Pepper!

    All the fingers, paws and klaws at Phred's Ranch will be crossed for Bourbon. Keep us posted on his progress. /s/ Phred
    /s/ Cinder, Smokey & Heidi

    R.I.P. ~ Boots, Bowser, Sherman, & Snoopy

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Location
    Windham, Vermont, USA
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    40,833
    Welcome to Pet Talk. Okay, first things first - what kind of dog is Bourbon? How old is he? Has he had any eye problems before? These are just curiosity questions ...

    Maybe if everyone is stumped, they could call the Tufts Veterinary School (in Grafton, Massachusetts). They do a lot of research and might have answers others don't.
    I've Been Frosted

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Illinois
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    Welcome pepper and Bourbon!! You'll love it here.

    With everything that Killian HAS had, a swollen eye is NOT one of them. I wish I had some advice, but all I can send you is get well wishes. Please keep us posted on what is happening with Bourbon. We care. Whatever is going on with Bourbon, the kind people of this board will help you through it. I know that they have helped me through the continuing Killian crisis. The people here are the BEST. My sincerest good luck wishes go out to you and Bourbon.

    Sue Killian and Shiloh

    [ July 17, 2001: Message edited by: Sudilar ]
    Save a life, ADOPT!!
    Sue

    Rainbow Bridge Angels: Thor, Shiloh and Killian, Avalanche and Wolf
    (RB Gaylord and Bandit, fosters who have touched my heart)

  8. #8
    Pepper ~

    Here's a link to the Tufts Vet School that Karen mentioned:
    http://www.tufts.edu/vet/petinfo/dvminfo.html

    If you surf deep into the site, there are several different search engines that produce a ton of Vet medicine articles and papers. One of them is via Cornell University:
    http://www.vet.cornell.edu/consultant/consult.asp

    Good luck researching Bourbon's problem.

  9. #9
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    Jul 2000
    Location
    Westminster, MA, USA
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    Welcome to Pet Talk, Pepper and Bourbon! You will love it here.

    I don't have any advice for you, but my Basset Daisy and I will keep all fingers and toes crossed that nothing serious is wrong.

    If it makes Bourbon feel any better, I have poison ivy on my eyelid and so it's swollen too! Hehe

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Location
    Indiana
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    He did mention his sinuses. I have found blood and puss on the floor and on his leg, thinking that it came from his nose, but who knows? It is a little more raised this morning with swelling between his eyes. I started on the Benedryl again. Could this be a horrible sinus infection?

  11. #11
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    I hope you find a solution to this problem soon. My thoughts are with you!!
    Sue
    Save a life, ADOPT!!
    Sue

    Rainbow Bridge Angels: Thor, Shiloh and Killian, Avalanche and Wolf
    (RB Gaylord and Bandit, fosters who have touched my heart)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
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    Pepper,

    I hope your baby is well soon.
    It's a horrible feeling not knowing
    what is wrong.
    Please keep us posted on Bourbon's
    progress.


    ----<---<--<{(@

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Indiana
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    Someone suggested colloidal silver to use on the swelled area and also to put on his food (natural antibiotic). Has anyone had any experience with his?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
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    Illinois
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    Very interesting....maybe it would help with Killian's eosinophylic gingivitis, too. He was taking antibiotics for that and those drugs could hurt his liver. Please let me know if you find out anything about this.

    How's Bourbon today, poor baby?

    Sue
    Save a life, ADOPT!!
    Sue

    Rainbow Bridge Angels: Thor, Shiloh and Killian, Avalanche and Wolf
    (RB Gaylord and Bandit, fosters who have touched my heart)

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    No experience here with it. But would be very interested to learn more. Sue, perhaps this could be of come help to Killian.

    I hope that the vets consider some type of more aggressive treatment for Bourbon soon. Blood and mucus on the floor, coming from his nose, must be very distressing for you. Please let us know how he is today. Hugs to you Bourbon. Hang in there, boy.

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