Choke-chains: are they Cruel?

[Daisy's Mom]

We used a choke collar on Daisy when she was a puppy. We had to - she was strong and strong willed too! If you just give a quick pop after putting it on the right way (P shape) the dog will behave itself right away. And with Daisy at least, she learned not to pull and we don't even need to use the choke collar on her anymore. We tossed it out a while ago. Now she walks just fine. I also don't agree with letting your dog wander around with choke collars around! There is a family who lives a few streets up from us and they let their sweet Springer Spaniel wander everywhere. She had a choke collar on all summer and once I saw her get hooked on a bush at my house! She started to panic and pull and I went over, freed her, and threw out the collar. Maybe that was wrong of me but if her owners are going to be mean then so am I! Anyway, as long as you can use the collar effectively and you know when and how to use it, I say it's okay.

[Pam]

Good for you Daisy's Mom!! If those people didn't realize the danger they were putting their dog in, at least you did. We will never tell!!!

[KYS]

Rottie,
Our little dog is not well trained, and she chokes when she is walking on leash.
So my husband bought her a harness to save
her neck.
She is my husbands dog and he lets her walk anyway she wants too. (she is very spoiled but cute).

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Kys, same here, our Schnauzers are not well trained but happy. We found, especially with little Daisy she wanted to walk so much she would choke on her regular collar, so whenever we take her for a walk or anywhere we use a body harness and it is perfect for her and also for Perry, much better control and they can't walk backward out of their collar.

[aly]

I train hundreds and hundreds of dogs and I will never ever put a choke collar on one of my own or on one at the shelter I work at. Granted, it provides faster results, but I could never feel comfortable with using one. There are alternative training methods like the ones we use at the humane society. They are very effective but do take consistency and patience.

I'm not trying to start an argument or disagree with anyone. These are just my personal feelings. I understand if you have tried everything else and nothing worked. All the posters here who use them seem very knowledgable and use them correctly, however many people do not and it breaks my heart.

[Genia]

I adopted Jeffrey when he was 2 years old. Talk about an untrained, wild dog (ok I'm stretching it a little). My 11 yr old would put on her rollarblades and off they would go! It was like a carnival ride for her. I thought about using a choke collar for Jeffrey. I picked one out and headed for the checkout counter and I couldn't bring myself to buy one. I know they can be very effective, but I am such a wimp, I cannot stand my boy to be in any sort of discomfort. I decided to work harder at getting him to obey. It was not easy! He has his moments, but he's pretty good now. I think with me, I'm not looking to have a show quality dog. I want him to obey, but I don't worry about having the most well-mannered dog on the block. I think obedience school is necessary, not only for the owner, but for the safety and well-being of the dog. I refused to go to any school that insisted on choke chains. I am very inexperienced on choke chains. I have never used them. I grew up with dogs and my parents never used them. I guess I have been lucky and never felt the need to use one. I can't say it's wrong, but it's not right for me.

As a side note, my daughter has talked me into buying my first pair of roller blades. I haven't been on skates since I was 19 and I broke my arm. Maybe I should use Jeffrey to pull me around the neighborhood

[This message has been edited by Genia (edited March 16, 2001).]

[KYS]

I like the Gentle Leader also.

If your dog is an escape artist
I learned this trick from an instructor.

Put a choke chain on the dog.
When you put on the Gentle leader, you
hook both the ring for the Gentle leader
and the choke onto the leash.
You are NOT using the choke chain at all.
If your dog was to get out of the gentle
leader, you would still have control of your dog via the choke collar.

[Logan]

Aly,
I read your reply and understand your feelings. What do you suggest and use as an alternative?
Logan

[ownerof3dogs]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KYS:
[B]If a choke collar/prong is used correctly it should not harm your dog. The choke can be used as a training tool/for walking
strong dogs. If not used correctly
that can cause harm to the dog. It should Never be used as a regular collar.

I agree I use choke chain on Felice and Zeus and a Prong Collar on Herc. It doesn't bother them because as I use it correcty and the collars are the right size.
I work at a Vets office and I see so many people coming in and they have the pron collar on so tight that it is almost impossable to get off.
It makes me sick these poor dogs are walking around with these collars poking and choking them non stop. When we see this we inform them that they are using it incorrectly and they have NO CLUE that they are.
I think the should have warning and detailed instruction labels on them.

[Daisy's Mom]

Genia the rollerblading idea is great but be careful! LOL actually I love to rollerblade and I tried going with Daisy. She took me flying way too fast down the hills, but when I needed some help getting up them, she flopped over onto her back in the middle of the road. Typical Basset!

[aly]

Logan, there are several "games" and techniques we use to get the dogs trained for leash walking. I will try to briefly explain some of them. I was a skeptic of these working at first, but I see it work time and time again.

The most simple one is "be a tree". As we are walking the dogs, the second they strain and pull on the leash, we stop and stoop down so the leash is horizontal from their shoulders. We then wait for them to realize they need to come check back to us. We will give them a sit or down command depending on how hyper they are. They are rewarded and then we start walking again until the next pull. It takes time and patience but they soon realizing that pulling means an end to their walk and that is considered negative. If they are good and obey a command, the walk starts again, and that is their reward. This is especially effective on shelter dogs since walks are precious for them. It can be effective if you carry treats in your pocket too.

Another thing we do is "tossing and turning". Hold a bunch of treats in one hand and the leash in the other. Always keep the dog to one side of you. Start by throwing a treat out in front of you. Walk with the dog and when he gets the treat, make a turn and call his name. Continue walking in the direction you turned and when the dog gets to your side, have your hand there and give him another treat. (We also use our mark word here, "Yes!") He sees that walking on a loose leash by your side is rewarding.

There's also another one similar to the one I just described. You have the dog on a leash and toss a treat out the length of the leash. Let the dog get it then call him to you. When he comes, grab his collar, feed him a treat and give praise. This game works for several things besides leash training. It can be helpful in teaching your dog to trust you and also to come to you when off leash. It prevents them from playing the "you can't catch me" game in public when you need them.

I've been pretty brief but those are just a few examples. It'd be a lot easier if I could demonstrate. If these exercises, along with some others, are done consistently and in the correct way, they have amazing results.

Again, I'm not criticizing any of you for using choke collars...its just other people out there.

[I Love My Aussie]

I do not think choke chains are cruel. It does not choke the dog, and it helps you train it. Regular collars often choke the dog of it struggles. I actually like the choke chain, believe it or not.

------------------
*Get a Grip Get an Aussie*

[blueruby]

wolflady, (on the first page, third message *I know this is a little bit behind!*)

oh my god.... I went to that rottweiler website. who ever did that to that poor thing? the neck was got all cut!
I am using a choke chain on my dog right now too. I don't think it is causing her much problem. she seems to be sensitive with a nylon collar because her neck is all red after she wore one, so I switched to a choke chain. I guess I better be careful around those kind of collars around my dog. thanks for the tip.

[wolflady]

Aly, thanks for the interesting info on your training techniques!
Blueruby, welcome to Pet Talk! I know, I couldn't believe that dog survived!

[carrie]

Choke, or check, chains are as cruel as cars or guns if the person using them is incompetent. They are legitimate tools when used with an understanding of the individual dog being handled.
Prong collars are also a tool and, in the right hands, are even better than check chains. They spread any pressure from a correction around the neck of the dog instead of concentrating the majority of the pressure on the front and at the ring. The prongs are there to spread the pressure, not to inflict injury or pain in any way.
They look, and are, savage in the wrong hands.
Maybe the time has come for legislation - there are many people that I have seen that should not be allowed to handle a dog let alone use these tools.