Choke-chains: are they Cruel?

[Luv My Brando]

Long story short, I am very much AGAINST them. I think that they can be very cruel and can cause injury, even when dog owners have the best of intentions.

If you read my other topic today (March 14, 2001) "Who has pets with special needs?", I began to tell the story of my dog Brando whom we (my boyfriend and I) adopted from an animal shelter almost a year ago.

When we adopted him, we unknowingly purhased a standard nylon flat-buckle collar (NOT a choke-chain) and leash for him. After seeing how he wheezed, gagged and agonized during our first walk with him, we immediately purchased a body harness to lead him instead.

The dog behaviourist that I was meeting with in the past few months, indicated that his trachea appeared to have been damaged (she had seen the same thing with her own dog), from past owners having pulled and tugged most likely on a choke-chain. She had seen this exact type of damage before with dogs that had been "victims" to the choke-chain.


[This message has been edited by Luv My Brando (edited March 14, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Luv My Brando (edited March 14, 2001).]

[ilovehounds]

I to bought a nylon choke chain when I started Hannah on a leash, but I found that she was uncomfortable so I went and bought a harness and a regular collar instead.

I don't mind using it if I hook both rings in the leash snap that way it doesn't tighten up and ckoke.

I really hate when I see people using the choke chains with the pionts that stick into the neck (Im not sure what they are called)

[Luv My Brando]

I absolutely agree with you, "Ilovehounds."

I also disagree with the use of the "prong-collers" (or "pinch-collers" as one of the guys I work with called them).

In my opinion, if you are effectively training your dog, you shouldn't need these poking, pulling, pinching and choking methods at all.

[wolflady]

I agree that these prong collars look just dreadful. I can't imagine wanting to have that around MY neck!! Yikes!
It really is ashame when people use the choke collars in bad ways. I'm really not at liberty to say whether or not I support them (because our dog never had one), but I've seen and read some horror stories surrounding them.
Here is a story about a Rottweiler in Michigan that made my skin crawl...
http://www.themestream.com/gspd_brow...ist=&cookied=T

DO NOT look at the pictures if you have a weak stomach or do not want to see the plight of this poor dog. But the story is there to read. It said that this dog was a stray, but someone had to have put that choke collar on her...

I just think people need to take responsibility and caution when using these collars. Many don't know of the hazards that they can cause when unsupervised. Someone may not think about what would happen if that collar got snagged on something and no one was around. I read somewhere (it might even have been here) that someone thought it would be a good idea to put warning labels on the collars in the store since they don't have them currently. I think that is a good idea. I know many people who love their dogs dearly, and they use a choke collar under supervision. I guess it depends on the person and the circumstances. Personally, I've never used one. I don't think I will choose to go that route to train my future dog either.

[Logan]

Depending on your obedience trainer's theory, you might be required to use a choke chain, but ONLY during training. Used correctly, choke chains and prong collars are not bad training tools. But I must say again, only when used correctly. We have had a lot of success using the choke chain when training and walking. Quick pops are all it takes and the noise makes the correction, not the pop. Plus, our obeidience school required them for training purposes, but they fitted the dogs and showed us how to put them on properly. You always form a "P" shape and place it over the dog's head. Then you can make your corrections in the proper manner. Neither Honey or Lilly have had a problem.

[*BaSim*]

I use a choke chain on Simba. I am not woried with him pulling and choking himself becayse he is very well trained. It doesnt see to bother him. And i dont like the nylon color becayse when ever he wear thim it rubs his neck and he gets a big red spot.

[jackiesdaisy1935]

We will never put a choke chain on any of our dogs, never, ever. Daisy and Perry wear a collar around the house, but when we go out they always wear a body harness for safety. We had a Rottweiler a long time ago and my husband took her to obedience school and they required choke chains. After a few weeks of seeing those poor dogs choke we decided it was cruel and unusual punishment and would never use a choke chain again ever.

[Logan]

I want to say one more thing. If not used properly, the choke or what we call "correction collars" can cause harm, especially if they are left on a dog and become too small. But everyone of you who post on this site regularly know how I cherish my dogs and I would never, ever hurt them. They do not choke. I perform a correction when necessary and they no longer pull. And, we take the collars off when we are through training or walking. In fact, Honey is in agility training now, and is required to wear, not a correction chain, but a nylon collar, so she will not accidently be choked on a piece of equipment. Please understand that many folks use these collars with much success and would never be cruel to their dogs. They are like our own kids and NEVER, NEVER would we do anything to hurt them.

Sorry to go on and on, but I just wanted to reiterate my position.

Logan

[horse_1987]

Plain and simply, if used harshly, yes they are bad,very bad. But if used gently to train a strong dog, it is better then getting hurt and dragged off. ( I would never use one ) I was thoroughly disgusted when the trainers at the dog acadamie suggested my grandmother use a choke chain on her SHIH TZU! he only weighs 9 pounds!!!!


[This message has been edited by horse_1987 (edited March 14, 2001).]

[Pam]

Logan I had a similar experience regarding obedience school with my last two poodles. Choker chains were required and it was explained how to properly use them.....for correction only. They were used in class and when practicing at home only. As with anything, you must use caution. My husband (who was the main handler during the sessions) found that as soon as the chokers were put on the dogs they immediately respected the fact that they were on and acted accordingly....no straining against the leash, etc. I think everyone who posts here knows that we love our dogs and would never do anything to cause them harm. I worry when I see a choker around a dog who is running loose. That is a potentially deadly situation!

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Logan, we all know how much you love your dogs and would never ever do anything to hurt them. I think there are good obedience classes and very bad classes. Unfortunately the trainer we had believed in what she called tough love, pulling on the choke chains to get the dogs attention. Most of the dogs were Rottweilers, and other big dogs, but big dogs hurt just like little dogs. We vowed after that experience never to use a choke chain on any dog again.

[KYS]

If a choke collar/prong is used correctly it should not harm your dog. The choke can be used as a training tool/for walking
strong dogs. If not used correctly
that can cause harm to the dog. It should Never be used as a regular collar.

I use a harness for my little dog,
because she pulls.
I use a thick Greyhound collar for my
female Akita and a choke collar
for my male.
I never leave either one of these collars on my dogs when they are not being walked.

[ilovehounds]

I thought I would add that here in Canada well in my town anyway it is against the law to have a choke collar on your dog unless it is being walked. I was visiting a friend in town one day and the dog controll officer took a dog away from a man because she found it walking down the street and some people were complaning, she was going to let him take it home but then she noticed a choke collar on him and she asked if he has that on all the time and the man said yes. She put the dog in the car and told him he could pick it up at the shelter in a couple of days that it was agaist the law to have a choke on a dog unless it is being walked. I was shocked because I wasn't aware of this at the time.

[*BaSim*]

ok everyone that i have known has used choke chains. I am getting a little mad because i feel like people are sayin i am wrong. Ok i do not want anybodey to get mad but i think choke chains r good. they are a good way to correct a dog. but then again everyone has their own opinions and i have mine.

[shais_mom]

BaSim, there is no reason to get mad, if you are using the collar correctly then you are doing nothing wrong.
I tried using a choke collar on Shai before I got the martingale collar and she pulled it apart, and got loose.
I would also never byy the nylon collar with the plastic buckle collar that snaps together. The humane society gave me one of those and then one day right in front of me Shai yanked on it and the chase was on!
I also tried a thick nylon collar that had a belt type buckle on it and she slipped it oiff over her head and off she went. (Is there a pattern here? )
There are break away collars that pull apart if the dog gets caught in the brush or in a fight with another dog. But those scare me I agree whole heartedly with the principle but my dog would pull it apart and run like the wind!! I think they are something like the Chinook collar or something.
Ok, I just checked out the sight of the MI rottweiler and the other 2 dogs, Ellis and Duchess that were listed there. OH it makes be sick, Ellis the Rottweiler, I thought was covered in mud, but he was bald, no hair.
And Duchess, the dalmation, I can't even type what she went thru. People are soooo sick.

[This message has been edited by shais_mom (edited March 14, 2001).]