My two male Bostons suddenly fighting...Help!

[prairiebiscuit]

Hi All, I am new to the forum, and thank you in advance for all your useful replies...

I am in desperate need for your help, please let me brief you on the situation:

My two male Bostons (Biscuit, 6 years old, 13 lbs) and Prairie (5 years old, 23 lbs) have lived in peace and harmony for as long as they have been together, which is a little less than 5 years. Yes, there were occasional fights, but not more than 2-3 per year, with no major injuries.

However, in the past 4 days, the fights were cropping up daily, even multiple times, leading to an eye injury in the smaller Boston, Biscuit. Biscuit is recovering fine, with only a minor cut around the eye (eyeball was not harmed, luckily). I am an emotional wreck from breaking up all the dog fights, and wondering what I am doing (did) wrong in handling the situation. I am also worried about my dogs' safety at this point.

1. Has anything similar happen to anyone else? (sudden onset of aggression between buddies)
2. How did you reintroduce the dogs to each other and promote a healthy positive coexistence? (right now I am keeping the dogs separately until Biscuit is completely healed and done with his vet-prescribed medications)
3. Would you recommend positive reinforcement of 'good interactions' between the dogs in the future, or come up with some kind of negative reinforcement of displays of aggression?

Please help, any suggestion appreciated! Some background on the Bostons and our situation that might help guide your thinking:
Biscuit: smaller Boston, older one, and behaves as the dominant dog towards the younger, much bigger Prairie. In terms of personality, he is always 'worried', and skiddish of sudden noises and displays (I guess) fear-based aggression towards other dogs during walks.
Prairie:: younger, much bigger, well behaved Boston.
Possible Triggers of aggression (this is just my thinking, I have not consulted a professional):
-we have recently moved to a new home and the dogs may be stressed out or figuring out their territory
-I have recently given Prairie a lot of attention because of treatment associated with a mild case of gingivitis, maybe this emboldened him to challenge Biscuit's dominance?
-i noticed that the fights break out especially when I am upset (argument with spouse), or when there is a lot of 'commotion' around the dogs (e.g., loud excitement while I play with my 5-year old son...).

Many thanks if you can help, direct me to a good book/article on the topic or recommend a trainer....

[Karen]

Okay, first, are both dogs neutered? In any case, yes, likely it is the move that has triggered this behavior, their world is turned upside down, and now they are trying to establish who top dog is in this new place.

The good news is, it's not up to them - the top dog is you! I would spend time retraining Biscuit, as he seems to have the most issues. Have you done any basic obedience classes with him? Maybe time to do another. Making him more confident and less fearful will help, but more than that, him knowing you are in charge, and reinforcing your bond with him, will help him be more secure, and less likely to lash out at Prairie.

[prairiebiscuit]

Thank you, Karen, for your advice.I will definitely restart training with Biscuit.

To answer your question: yes, both of the dogs have been neutered at a young age, and I did a 'Petsmart' obedience class with Biscuit, but I guess its time for another one.

So is it possible that Prairie will become top dog at the new place? Will the two dogs just fight it out? I am most worried about this because Bostons were bred to be fighting dogs (which I found out only after I got my first dog...), and they could fight until a major injury (death?) occurs..... (and please don't ask me who was the 'genius' who recommended adding a second male Boston to the family after having the first dog for a year...I know we did not think it through...)

[Karen]

i am glad they were both neutered, that helps! No, they need not keep fighting. While the breed was originally a fighting dog, that was a very long time ago, and that instinct has largely been bred out, as they have ben mostly companion dogs for many decades now.

And if you recreate yourself as the "top" dog in the house, they won't have to fight over who is in charge, they can defer to you. With the right training, things can become peaceful again, it's all up to you!

[Freedom]

Can you find a training place that used American Pet Dog Trainers? I don't think much of PetsMart and PetCo type places. At some, the person has passed a written test to qualify for the job - and never owned a dog! At a proper dog training facility, the trainers have dog(s) they work with in Agility, Herding, Flyball, something so they are used to reading dog body language. they will teach you how to read YOUR dog's body language.

Maybe you can find a place on this site:
http://www.apdt.com/petowners/ts/default.aspx

I agree w/ Karen, the move has been a huge trigger in starting the fighting. And yes, Bostons have been bred as companion animals for generations now, so don't worry about that.

When you spend time with Prairie's teeth issues, do you then spend time with Biscuit? You should!

To answer your question, yes absolutely treat and praise good behavior! Once reason I like APDT is they only use positive reinforcement. If both dogs are lying down calmly, hey, let them know you approve!

When they are fighting, of course you do what you have to do to separate them. Then they should BOTH go in a time out. Do you have crates? I don't crate train, per se, but I DO have crates I can use for time outs. Start at 3 minutes. And while they are in time out, do not make eye contact with either dog. Completely ignore them both.

I am sorry Biscuit got hurt, thank goodness it was not more serious. I am sure you have to check them over after a fight, but that should be quick and into time outs for both of them. If you do time outs 3 or 4 times a week, then move it up to 5 minutes. You can set a kitchen timer. When times up, let them out but do NOT make a fuss over either of them.

Finally, I am sure you are also very busy with the move, unpacking, sorting. Are the dogs getting regular exercise? A tired dog is less likely to fight.

[prairiebiscuit]

Freedom, Karen, thanks for the excellent tips and your help.

I did contact a local trainer from the website Freedom recommended, and started drilling both dogs (separately...) on basic commands to show who is boss

In the meantime, if anybody has had a similar situation of two same sex dogs suddenly turning aggressive with each other, please let me know, ...I would LOVE to hear some success stories about solving the 'violence problem'....there are plenty of internet sites with horror stories and advice to put one of the dogs up for adoption once serious fighting breaks out among same sex dogs (unthinkable for me personally...)...

[buttercup132]

I don't know much about the Boston breed but you said they were bred to fight in which case I do know a thing or 2 about that.
Dogs who have DA bred into them don't always show it and then one day they can just become aggressive with other dogs with no warnings.
They usually dont become dog aggressive until they reach maturity (around 2 yrs) but it can happen any time.
I know of a lot of pit bulls who were buddy buddy and snuggled up to each other played with each other and the next minute the one will want to tear the others throat. After that they have to be kept separated for the rest of their lives. Pit bulls are a little different as they were bred to not waste time with showing warning signs.

My questions would be do you have toys,bones,food etc laying around that they share?

I would also start doing NILIF and pick one dog to be top dog.
That dog gets everything first, fed first, pet first and more pets, gets privileges over the other dog, goes out the door first etc. I would pick the more dominant dog to be the top dog.

Your on the right path, good luck!

[prairiebiscuit]

Many thanks again!!!! I had to Google NILIF, but it does make sense, and since the last fight I have been basically doing that with both Biscuit and Prairie...

I started crating them (one at a time), we practice 'sit' and 'stay' for treats for 15/20 minutes per dog every day, and I took away their free feeding food dispenser and now I am the one feeding them a few times a day. I also make sure that they are not stressed out (beyond, of course, the minimal amount needed to get their attention..) and they get a lot of reassurance, play and excercise. Right now the dogs became my 'full time job'...but I would rather do the 'rehabilitation' once but well.

I still have not reintroduced them to each other (I read somewhere online that raised adrenaline levels in dogs after a rough fight do not subside for 2-6 days and the dogs may be 'on edge' for that time...so I don't want to set them up for failure by letting them be with each other too soon...).

I will definitely update you guys on what happens when they are together again. Does any of you by any chance have some tips on how to arrange their first time together in about 3-4 days? Inside or outside? Only me or should my husband be there as well? How to behave ?(I know, calm...but should we watch the dogs, or pretend that we are ignoring them, turn away, etc...)

Thanks in advance!!!!!

[Karen]

Have them both on a leash and take them for a walk together, and see how they do. Adrenaline doesn't last that long in the system, you can't believe everything you read online. If it did, they'd still both be hyper and antsy ... which I am guessing they are not. This isn't like introducing a new dog, you need not do it on "neutral territory" - you just need to be in control of the situation, which by having them both leashed, you will be.

[buttercup132]

I would be doing it on neutral territory considering it was probably a dominance fight.
Karen after a fight the situation should be treated like a new dog and starting over.

Have someone else with you and walk them together.
Dont let them sniff or be in contact with each other until the walk is over.
I would also try and go for a long walk at least 30 minutes so they are decently worn out.
When you let them meet do it out front of your house if you can on the sidewalk or the road.
Remain calm, no tension on the leash but at the same time be prepared for them to fight. I really doubt they will as like I said it sounds like dominance not dog aggression.

[prairiebiscuit]

Many thanks again...The dogs are still separated, and I have scheduled a visit with the local 'dog whisperer' (with excellent recommendations on 'treating' overly aggressive dogs) who will help introduce the dogs.

Will update you guys next week on how it went)

In the meantime, if you have any other ideas/suggestions, don't hesitate to shoot them my way!

[beeniesmom]

Hi I have 2 bostons as well (aren't they the best dogs!). Beenie is female 7, Frankie is male, 6, both fixed. The dominant dog had always been Beenie (smaller female) until Frankie got to be about 2 years old and 7-8 lbs heavier than Beenie. It's strange, when we visit my MIL, Beenie seems to take over as dominant dog at her house. She steals Frankies food and 'puts him in his place' if he starts barking. It's really strange to see the dinamics of the relationship depending on where we are. I hope your two quit fighting. Let us know how the dog whisperer training goes.

[B&Baussies]

I have two male Australian Shepherds and while I know their aggression levels are supposed to be lower the vet still warns about the possibility of them getting into these kinds of fights. I have never had to deal with this problem to be honest, my dogs have never been in a real fight and the times they do goof around if either one yelps out either from pain or surprise the other one will immediately jump off and look at me for confirmation at he isn’t in trouble. But I took a whole lot of time and effort to extinguish any and all aggressive behavior that they demonstrate. They look to me as an absolute leader and they do not overstep their boundaries. When they do I address the situation promptly.

Fighting is a very serious problem. If they are actually causing injury then this going on downhill fast and needs to be dealt with now, the longer you wait the harder it will be overall. The obvious first step is to get them to behave while being monitored in a controlled room. It needs to be a room so that you can get to them quickly, if it’s outside they can avoid you easier and it’s harder to appear dominate. I do not believe that this type of behavior can be fixed through positive or negative reinforcement. It could have been prevented through those means but I think the problem is too far gone for that method. I think the best choice for you is to designate some time everyday to get them together in this controlled room and you have to literally play the role as the alpha. It’s completely common for dogs to want to display dominance; it’s when that dominance they display starts to turn into an alpha male complex. Then you get these fights that result in injury.

On a side note, I see a lot of comments throughout this forum that talk about displaying dominance towards the dogs to let them know you are in charge. But I rarely see anyone explain how to do that. Let me give you a brief overview of what I think the appropriate way to display dominance would be. A rule of thumb when attempting to display dominance: you aren’t trying to put the d*** in dictator, if you overdo it your dog will either begin to resent you or it may lead to other problems. (With your dogs fighting so much it would probably lead to them acting aggressive towards you, so be sure to just stress the problems that need to be stressed. None of this I have to walk into the room first or some of the other ridiculousness I’ve read online). Really all dominance is, is how you present yourself. Your dogs already recognize you as the primary caregiver, what they are fighting about now is who is in charge. You need to look like the leader, stand up straight, look them directly in the eye, and speak with firm strong voice. (I know some people say not to look animals in the eye but that’s only some animals and they only see it as a threat because it displays dominance which is what you want to accomplish). Now when they fight… that’s a sensitive problem that needs to handled carefully. One of the ways that I display dominance over my dogs is doing what I call a “firm hand” (I really just use it when we play wrestle). And it’s what I recommend you do as well. It is when you match whatever strength the dog is trying to output, don’t over power him if you match the strength they exhibit it lets them know you aren’t trying hurt them you’re trying to stop them . For instance, if I were to see my dogs fighting the first thing I would do is yell “HEY” in the strongest voice you can master up. While you do this walk over to them quickly (run if you’re outside) make your presence known. This should all take about 5 to 10 seconds do not hesitate and do not pick favorites. When you get to them you hold them both down. (I would usually never recommend any use of violence but they are refusing to pay you attention you might need to give them a little slap, understand though that dogs have a high pain threshold and they are currently beating each other up so don’t be afraid of hurting them whatever slap you deliver probably won’t hurt near as bad as that eye injury, but don’t hit more than once and the punishment goes to both, no favoritism. The object is to throw them off guard and pin them down). After they are both subdued, see how the aggressive behavior develops. Do they calm down? Does it get worse? Is there a lot of growling and obvious tension? If the aggressive attitude subsides for both dogs then you can “test the water” , but if an aggressive attitude is still present I suggest muzzling them as a punishment. This not only punishes them but it also lets them be in the same room with no worry of them fighting forcing them to get along. If you use it after they fight they will hopefully start to associate the two and through you acting consistently with dominance and punishment it should hopefully start to subside. (By the way when it comes to animals it is better to openly express how you feel. For instance the fighting pets would cause a lot of stress, anxiety, and frustration. Let it out, your dog already knows something is going through your head. He may not understand a word you say but by the time you’re done talking, yelling or whatever they will know how you feel. They probably will be less prone to fighting if they see just how much it bothers you.)

However the fighting is only part of the problem. It’s the biggest part but another important thing to keep in mind is aggression control to help prevent this from regression. In the case of my dogs I established early in the relationship what was community (toys, bones, pig ears whatever) and what was regulated (meals). I always make sure that they each get the meal that I set out for them, no more no less (and believe me they did try and get around that). Because I’ve reinforced this since I’ve gotten them I don’t have to worry about them stealing each other’s food. Now as far as toys and such go, they used to growl at each other when one came near and the other didn’t want him stealing his toy. While it was cute when they were puppies I knew that prolonged reinforcement of that aggressive possessive behavior would not end well. So what I would do was every time one growled at the other, I would walk over, take the toy, and throw it in the other room so they had to race to get it. Several months later and here they are sharing their most desired treats and playing in harmony. And my last little piece of advice in trying to get your dogs to recognize you as the leader is go rough house with them a little, make some games that force them to cooperate. I rough house with dogs all the time and most times it is me vs. the two of them. It’s a great way to remind them who’s boss without showing aggression and it keeps them on the same side.

Those are some serious behavioral problem, I hope this helped. Just remember, you’re the boss, what you say is law, and try to come up with some bonding exercises that make them less individualistic and more like a duo.

P.S. I know some people think it is better to pick the dominate dog and actually show favoritism but personally I think that it sets you up for regression, and any time the dynamic changes between the two they would probably end up fighting (where if they recognized you as the alpha there would be no dynamic change). And with prolonged favoritism from a primary caregiver might leave the impression that the dog is the alpha, and you don’t want that. I would guess that a full blown alpha male complex with an untamed ego in aggressive dogs would probably result in the weaker dog getting seriously injured possibly killed. These are natural instincts that you are dealing with and if you want see an example of where this can lead, look in nature, animals fight and some die just to be alpha… it can get pretty ugly. There is a reason we "domesticate" animals. And you found out first hand how fast the dynamic can change seeing as how you said that this is an all of the sudden kind of behavior. Your dogs are the around the same age so they probably demonstrate very similar aggression levels. And I have noticed that small dogs are not afraid to fight up a weight class or ten. Be careful with whatever you decide to do.