Humane Society says Petland stores tied to puppy mills

[Medusa]

Sigh. This is so disheartening. Does it ever end?

http://www.yahoo.com/s/990720

[Reachoutrescue]

I received an email from the Humane Society today about this....this is just horrible. Sad truth is, most pet stores sell puppy mill pups....as long as people buy there...it will not stop. We all know that though. I have had people in the past who surrendered their pet to us state that they bought them at a pet store and the dog had major issues from the beginning. I just wish people would open their eyes and change their ways. Maybe the H.S. can shut down Petland....at least that would help a bit.

[Twisterdog]

I just posted this in Dog General, too.

I like to think not that it is disheartening, but that it shows progress by everyone who has been fighting for years to gain some publicity for the animal welfare movement. A few years ago, this would have not made the news at all. The general public never heard the terms "puppy mill" or "back yard breeder", let alone cared about the issue.

I think the fact that this is front page news today is encouraging ... lots of well-meaning people out there simply don't know the facts. They don't mean any harm when they buy that cute little furball from a pet store, they just don't know. Information like this needs to get out.

[Medusa]

When I was in my early 20's, I walked into a pet store, a well-known chain, and fell in love w/a peke-a-poo. (I had no knowledge of puppy mills back then.) That was on a Saturday and her little face stayed w/me all weekend, so I went back on Monday and got her. We jokingly called her the six million dollar dog because she had so many health issues that we spent a fortune on her vet care. I spent the first several weeks sitting up w/her at night due to her kennel cough. She was only 2 1/2 lbs. when I got her and I thought she was going to cough herself to death. Anyhow, Charmin lived to 18 1/2 and her daughter, Daisy, lived to 17 1/2 but my vet joked w/me that I built the wing on his clinic.

[Twisterdog]

When I was in my early 20's, I walked into a pet store, a well-known chain, and fell in love w/a peke-a-poo. (I had no knowledge of puppy mills back then.) That was on a Saturday and her little face stayed w/me all weekend, so I went back on Monday and got her. We jokingly called her the six million dollar dog because she had so many health issues that we spent a fortune on her vet care. I spent the first several weeks sitting up w/her at night due to her kennel cough. She was only 2 1/2 lbs. when I got her and I thought she was going to cough herself to death. Anyhow, Charmin lived to 18 1/2 and her daughter, Daisy, lived to 17 1/2 but my vet joked w/me that I built the wing on his clinic.

Sounds identical to the story of the first dog I ever got on my own, as an adult. When I was 21 I bought a little black cocker spaniel from a pet store in Indiana. She lived to be sixteen, but there were untold thousands of dollars of vet bills that got her to that age. She was the quintessential puppy mill dog - with all the ensuing medical problems. But at the time I bought her, I had NO idea. I had never heard of puppy mills or back yard breeders, even in passing. I assumed, honestly, that because the puppies in pet stores were so expensive, that they must be of much better quality than your average ad-in-paper, free-from-a-box-in-Walmart-parking-lot puppies. Live and learn.

[Cataholic]

I just posted this in Dog General, too.

I like to think not that it is disheartening, but that it shows progress by everyone who has been fighting for years to gain some publicity for the animal welfare movement. A few years ago, this would have not made the news at all. The general public never heard the terms "puppy mill" or "back yard breeder", let alone cared about the issue.

I think the fact that this is front page news today is encouraging ... lots of well-meaning people out there simply don't know the facts. They don't mean any harm when they buy that cute little furball from a pet store, they just don't know. Information like this needs to get out.

Twisted (he he he), you are so right. Getting this information onto the front page of anything related to the news is huge.

[Giselle]

You know, I've said it before and I'll say it again. The reason education about BYBs and puppy mills is so difficult to disseminate is because the discussion is essentially based on ethics.

Physically, there's really nothing wrong with breeding dogs. Financially, there's really nothing wrong with breeding dogs for money. But ethically, there is something corrupt about the ways people breed dogs for the sole purpose of money in today's society.

I'm glad the education is getting out there, but I hope it doesn't degenerate to: "Oh, we should avoid pet store puppies because they'll end up costing a lot at the vet". Yeahhhh...maybe...but that's just a side issue. And it's placing the emphasis on money again. It's working on Kohlberg's preconventional stage. You avoid a behavior that solicits punishment (avoiding pet store puppies to avoid big vet bills), when, ideally, one should avoid pet store puppies because the place of their origin is inherently unethical. The big issue is ethics! Alright. My rant is over.

[Medusa]

Well, to be clear, I mentioned the large vet bills only to demonstrate just how many health issues Charmin had. Whether or not she truly was a puppy mill dog, I don't know. But I see your point.

[Giselle]

Oh, I'm not accusing anybody of anything. I've just seen comments regarding the monetary disadvantage of buying pet store puppies and it has always irked me, so I just thought I'd clear that up now vs. later In the end, education is education. Hopefully, eventually, everybody will understand the issues at large =)

[Cataholic]

Giselle,
I think I see your point, somewhat. But, will you elaborate? I think it is an interesting distinction that you make.

I do think I disagree somewhat that this is just about money/ethics. I think it is morally reprehensible/inhumane/irresponsible to breed animals in the BYB or puppy mill situation, money aside. I think it is inhumane to lock an animal in a cage, and essentially breed the life out of it. I think at the heart of it all, I DO think it is wrong (general word) to 'make money' off of another living creature. I think this is different than making money off of an employee, in the employment context, as that human has rights/responsiblities/choices.

But, maybe I just don't see your point as clearly as I should.
Johanna

[Giselle]

I do think I disagree somewhat that this is just about money/ethics.

I never said it was as simple as money. But it definitely is about ethics. Btw, I'm using the word "ethics" in the same manner that you're using "moral", but I figure "ethics" is a less polarizing word to use

The point about caging breeding animals in puppy mills is part of breeding ethics. But the larger point I'm making is this: We have millions and millions and millions of companion quality animals being tossed around the rescue system. A large majority of those animals will never get adopted out. They will get killed. To add insult to injury, BYBs and puppy millers create puppies for the sole purpose of companionship. Thus, in today's vastly overpopulated society, one should only breed an animal to create more exemplary examples of that animal. In other words, if one were breeding a Doberman Pinscher, that Doberman Pinscher should fit the correct type, health, temperament, and possess adequate (preferably, strong) working ability. In other words, a breeder should only breed to "better" the breed. In essence, it'd be unethical to produce puppies for the sole purpose of companionship when there are millions of companion-quality puppies languishing in shelters. But BYB's and PM's totally disregard this, and this is the ethical dilemma I'm talking about.

So when people try to convince others not to buy pet store animals simply because those animals may harbor health issues/they may cost more with vet bills, it's sidestepping the larger issue. And it also opens up the door for a lot of anecdotal "Well, I bought my dog from a pet store and he's perfectly healthy" arguments. So THAT is my gripe.

[Cataholic]

And, now I see your distinction clearly. And, I could not agree more. Thanks for the extra information.

[Twisterdog]

You avoid a behavior that solicits punishment (avoiding pet store puppies to avoid big vet bills), when, ideally, one should avoid pet store puppies because the place of their origin is inherently unethical. The big issue is ethics! Alright. My rant is over.

Of course. In theory, we should ALL avoid all unethical things simply because they are such. However, in practice, Joe Public is often sadly lacking in ethical standards.

And it matters not to the dogs who are suffering and dying in cages whether Mr. Public decided to stop buying BYB puppies due to an ethical revolution, or simply a fear of getting hit in the pocketbook. In the end, the result for the dogs is the same.

If the drunk at the bar decides to call a cab instead of attempting to drive himself home because he fears getting an expensive DUI ticket, instead of the obviously ethical higher ground, does it matter to the family whos lives will be spared by his decision? No.

[Giselle]

Twisterdog, I understand your point, but my point was basically saying that we shouldn't let the underlying message deteriorate, as it often does. Fundamentally, our education regarding PM's and BYB's should emphasize the ethical implications of their rampant breeding rather than the financial burden it may or may not impose on the owner. I agree that Joe Public often needs tangible incentives to avoid pet store animals, but I'm just hoping that our education still aims to invoke the higher level reasoning that this issue needs It's that incomplete understanding vs. fuller understanding dilemma. Hopefully, the education that is getting out there is still aiming to instill a deeper, fuller understanding of the issue!

And, now, to quote Alexander Pope

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring.
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.

[Twisterdog]

Twisterdog, I understand your point, but my point was basically saying that we shouldn't let the underlying message deteriorate, as it often does. Fundamentally, our education regarding PM's and BYB's should emphasize the ethical implications of their rampant breeding rather than the financial burden it may or may not impose on the owner. I agree that Joe Public often needs tangible incentives to avoid pet store animals, but I'm just hoping that our education still aims to invoke the higher level reasoning that this issue needs It's that incomplete understanding vs. fuller understanding dilemma. Hopefully, the education that is getting out there is still aiming to instill a deeper, fuller understanding of the issue!

Agreed. I think the HSUS article did a good job of exposing the compromised ethics.

And, of course, I think the answer to the PR side of this, and any, problem is a two-pronged approach: Expose the ethical violations in detail, so that those of us who are concerned with such things will know and make the appropriate choice; and also expose the more basic, everyday, Joe Q. Public problems, such as money, for the folks who just aren't into soul searching. Covers all the bases.