Muddy is still coughing

[Emeraldgreen]

Hi guys, I think this is my first dog health post and I'm hoping that someone might have some ideas about what is going on with our older dog Muddy. He is about 11.5 years old and we adopted him from the SPCA when he was 5. He has been in good health the whole time but quite recently some things have been going on with him. He and our other dog Finnigan sleep together downstairs. One of them has been pooping on the floor. A few times it was diarrhea so we switched their food to the holistic crunchies made by Chicken Soup. The problem is that we didn't know who was going on the floor. When the pooping on the floor seemed to stop, we tried mixing in some wetfood again (a holistic canned food). But everytime we start with the wet food, one of them poops on the floor and we think it's Muddy. So a few mornings ago we walked them and took a poop sample from each dog. I asked my boss if I could show up a few hours late to work and bring these samples to the vet. I dropped them off and they were going to send them off to the lab via courier. At the end of the day I called the vet's office and they said they were very sorry but somehow they didn't make it with the courrier and could I please bring in another sample. I was very frustrated because I lost 2 hours of work and took a ferry just to bring the samples in the first place.
They did an in house fecal test and said that both showed negative for everything.
For the past 2 days Muddy has been coughing/retching. It's as if he has something stuck in his throat. He does it once every few hours or so. Otherwise, he is full of energy and playing and everything else. He still has a good appetite. Yesterday I tried massaging his throat area to see if I could help. Didn't work. Then I heated up some beef broth thinking that the warm liquid might help soften a crunchie that might be stuck. That didn't help. This morning one of them pooped on the floor again. Not diarrhea but I think the beef broth didn't help matters.
I have to go to work today and the vet's office was completely booked anyway being Monday so I'm bringing him in tomorrow at 3:20. They will do everything, bloodwork, xrays etc.. but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone had an idea of what might be going on. My worst fear is that it could be heart related with the coughing but if you listen to it, he really sounds like he is trying to dislodge something.
Please keep in mind when watching the video that he does this every few hours, not constantly and when he's done he races around and is normal. If it was constant, I would take off work again and drive him to the vet. Also, he doesn't chew on sticks or toys or anything.
The first sound you'll hear in the video is Finnigan doing his Basenji yodel thing. He is half Basenji and makes interesting sounds.

Muddy's video:

[lizbud]

That's too bad. I'm glad you are getting him in to the Vets tomorrow.

It could be caused by a lot of things, so it's better to get him seen by
a expert. Has Muddy been on a heart worm preventative since you've had
him?

[Emeraldgreen]

That's too bad. I'm glad you are getting him in to the Vets tomorrow.

It could be caused by a lot of things, so it's better to get him seen by
a expert. Has Muddy been on a heart worm preventative since you've had
him?

We don't have heartworm in this part of the province though it is further up north. He hasn't been on any heartworm meds.

I thought of one thing that he possibly could have ingested. The other night we had a bear wandering through our yard and Muddy was doing his job and completely freaking out. The next day we put a curtain up on the window in their room so they couldn't see the bear hoping it would help calm them down. We used some push pins to put the curtain up and each morning my husband was opening the window after he took the dogs outside to let some fresh air into the room. I'm wondering if he dropped one of the tacks on the ground and if Muddy might have eaten it. His vision isn't as good these days and he might have thought it was a stray kibble?!?

[Moesha]

Oh my! I sure hope that you're able to figure out what is bothering Muddy. Give him a hug for me. While I love his kitty siblings, I don't want him to feel neglected of Moe!Love either.

[Emeraldgreen]

Oh my! I sure hope that you're able to figure out what is bothering Muddy. Give him a hug for me. While I love his kitty siblings, I don't want him to feel neglected of Moe!Love either.

Thanks Moe! I hugged him for ya.

[lizbud]

Just checking in on Muddy. Waiting to hear what the Dr says. I hope
Muddy is not too uncomfortable.

[Catlady711]

I hope they find out what's wrong with him. Please keep us updated.

From the sound of the gagging, it reminds me of when dogs come in at work with a respiratory infection. Sometimes the sinus drainage can cause gagging and diarrhea. If it was that a simple round of antibiotics should clear it up.

As for possibly eating a pin. I can't say for sure but seems to me most of the dogs at work that eat strange things and have blockages or preforated insides are really sick, don't eat well, and just lay around alot. We recently lost one after the owner fed a steak bone and it not only caused a blockage, but preforated something (intestine I think) along the way. That dog was very ill and lethargic.

I hope your dog has something easily treated. Glad to hear Muddy acts normal otherwise.

Keep us posted.

[Emeraldgreen]

Thanks for your posts everybody.
Muddy and I arrived 9 minutes late for his exam and then got bumped and had to wait about 40 minutes. It's a busy place though so you really need to get there on time to keep your slot. Darned ferry!!!
The vet was great and spent alot of time with us when she finally came in. I showed her the video of Muddy hacking and thankfully, he did it for her in the room. They did xrays and in-house blood work. She said that if a push pin was lodged, the metal would show up clearly on the xrays. I was also worried about heart problems but the xrays showed that he has tracheal membrane inflammation. She was surprised because she said this is the kind of thing you see in Yorkies and Pugs. She said that with smaller dogs their tracheas would most likely have collapsed but because Muddy is a big dog his throat is staying open.

She didn't know what caused it but she said that his attempts to cough are irritating his trachea membrane and the inflammed membrane is making him cough! She said the key is to get him to stop coughing and prescribed Benylin DM 50-60mg every 8 hours. She thinks it will clear up.

His blood work was pretty good and his white blood cell count was normal so he doesn't seem to be fighting an infection. His BUN and creatinin (spelling??) levels were up and she called it Azotemia. She said that it was an indicator that he is beginning to have issues with his kidneys so I have to switch him over to K/D or some other low protein food.

Here is the worst news though. One of our dogs has been pooping on the floor and we weren't sure who it was but have suspected Muddy. While at the vet I told her about that and said that the boys are very good about waiting until morning but someone has been going on the floor a half dozen times in the last 3 weeks. It is worse when we feed wet food so they are just on dry now. I also told her that Muddy sometimes drags his back right leg sometimes. He is very active and runs around like a crazyman still and continues to try to dominate Finn by mounting him. But he does drag that foot every now and then, just for a second, kind of like a lazy step. She took xrays of his legs and hips and said that he seems to have a bit of arthritis on his left side but that doesn't explain the lazy foot on the right side. She thinks he has Degenerative Myelopathy (a degeneration of his spinal area) which is not uncommon for his breed and causes things like foot dragging and incontinence with regard to defecation. She said it's one of those diseases that you diagnose by ruling other things out. I asked her if it was still possible that the inappropriate pooping might be dietary related or maybe it's Finn and the foot dragging might be arthritis? She said it could be but she felt it was Degenerative Myelopathy. She said there is no treatment for it and it can progress quickly, anywhere from a few months to a dog she knows of that was diagnosed a year and a half ago and is still able to walk.
She did give me a few websites to check out and said there is a place in Florida that is trying a treatment plan that is full of all kind of things like supplements and holistic treatment but it is very new.

We are feeling very down but at the same time, we are so relieved that he doesn't have congestive heart failure which would have given us even less time with him. I'm going to Google the degenerative disease and see what I can learn so we can help him the best we can. He's such a great dog.
Is anyone here on PT familiar with this disease? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[Moesha]

I'm so glad that the coughing can be treated relatively easily. I haven't had any experience with the other disease but sure do wish you all the best. I know that Muddy is going to receive the best treatment available. You've proven that you'll do anything and everything in your power to help your critters feel better. With that and PT research and experience, Muddy is in the best hands possible! I'm afraid all I can offer is another Moe!hug or two or three.

[Glacier]

Sorry about the diagnosis. My Pirate has advanced DM, among a host of other health problems. We treat the DM with Metacam, a dose slightly higher than her weight actually calls for, every day. Plus Gabapentin 100mg once a day every day. Gabapentin is actually a human anti-seizure medication, but for some reason it works on neurological issues too. It's also prescribed for chronic pain. My husband has taken it for back problems. It's much more effective for Pirate than it was for him!

Pirate has been on the Gabapentin for about four months now. Before she was falling over, dragging her back leg, unable to lift her back feet high enough to get around even tiny obstacles. A piece of gravel in the yard was enough to make her fall over. She's much steadier on her feet now; can usually get up on her own; she's never going to convince anyone she's 4 again, but she's doing alright for 15!

Might be worth asking your vet about-it's cheap, easy to administer(I throw the capsule in her dinner bowl) and it certainly won't make things any worse.

[Emeraldgreen]

Sorry about the diagnosis. My Pirate has advanced DM, among a host of other health problems. We treat the DM with Metacam, a dose slightly higher than her weight actually calls for, every day. Plus Gabapentin 100mg once a day every day. Gabapentin is actually a human anti-seizure medication, but for some reason it works on neurological issues too. It's also prescribed for chronic pain. My husband has taken it for back problems. It's much more effective for Pirate than it was for him!

Pirate has been on the Gabapentin for about four months now. Before she was falling over, dragging her back leg, unable to lift her back feet high enough to get around even tiny obstacles. A piece of gravel in the yard was enough to make her fall over. She's much steadier on her feet now; can usually get up on her own; she's never going to convince anyone she's 4 again, but she's doing alright for 15!

Might be worth asking your vet about-it's cheap, easy to administer(I throw the capsule in her dinner bowl) and it certainly won't make things any worse.

Thank you so much for this information! I'm going to speak with my vet about it. May I ask when Pirate was diagnosed with DM? I'm guessing it was 4 months ago because she started the Gabapentin then but I wasn't sure. And I'm also wondering if Pirate had ever had any incontinence issues related with DM?
The wet food seems to trigger an overnight bowel movement, even if we feed it to him early in the day so sadly we've had to cut that out of his diet. He loves to eat (what dog doesn't?!? lol) and he really likes the wetfood mixed in with his crumbles. He reacts the same way to high quality holistic wet food as he does to the cheaper grocery store brands so we've just stopped giving it to him altogether. And this morning, no poop to clean up. Yay!!
Aside from the lazy back foot, it does seem that his other feet sometimes seem to take an exaggerated amount of time to 'right' themselves when he's walking. Not always, just sometimes. And there are times when Finnigan comes bounding along and wants to play with Mud and kind of knocks him over. He doesn't fall completely over or anything but he ends up falling back into the sitting position and he looks a bit miffed at Finn for making it happen.
It sounds like the Gabapentin has really helped Pirate and I'm very excited that there is something out there that could help Muddy. My vet must not know of this. The other thing that is confusing is that she said Metacam does nothing for DM because DM doesn't cause pain. She said Metacam would be useful for the arthritis he might be suffering with but because of his kidney issue she wanted to hold off on the Metacam. Do you think DM is causing Pirate pain and/or do you think the anti-inflammatory properties of Metacam help Pirate with the DM? Sorry for all the questions but I'm so relieved that someone here is familiar with this disease as I've never heard of it before yesterday. Thank you again for your post.

[Glacier]

Thank you so much for this information! I'm going to speak with my vet about it. May I ask when Pirate was diagnosed with DM? I'm guessing it was 4 months ago because she started the Gabapentin then but I wasn't sure. And I'm also wondering if Pirate had ever had any incontinence issues related with DM?

It sounds like the Gabapentin has really helped Pirate and I'm very excited that there is something out there that could help Muddy. My vet must not know of this. The other thing that is confusing is that she said Metacam does nothing for DM because DM doesn't cause pain. She said Metacam would be useful for the arthritis he might be suffering with but because of his kidney issue she wanted to hold off on the Metacam. Do you think DM is causing Pirate pain and/or do you think the anti-inflammatory properties of Metacam help Pirate with the DM?

Pirate has only lived with me for seven months. The DM goes back way farther than that, but her last owner couldn't be bothered to take her to the vet. She's got to be 15 now by my best guess.

Pirate has both bladder and bowel incontinence issues. The bladder problems are unrelated to her spine and are treated with DES. The bowel problems are related to the DM. I clean up feces from her bed pretty much every morning. When she lays down for an extended period of time, she can't control her bowels. Fortunately, she rarely has runny stools so it's usually a pretty easy clean up! I am very careful with her diet. She doesn't get treats very often. On her kibble I usually give her a tablespoon of canned food, just because the other two dogs who eat inside get canned food. Any more than that or a bigger treat and I have a big mess to clean up in the morning! That dog loves her dinner. Nothing keeps her from her food and she'd eat herself sick if I let her! I believe when Pirate stops eating she will be telling me it's time to let her go.

The use of gabapentin in dogs is fairly new. My vet clinic doesn't even carry it. I have to fill the prescription at my pharmarcy, much to the fascination of the pharmacist! Pirate's vet says that when it works for a dog, it works quickly. Pirate responded within a week and seemed to reach maximum improvement in about a month. Pirate doesn't show any negative side effects, but it can apparently have a strong sedating effect on some dogs.

Pirate has other issues that cause pain. She has athritis in her knees and hips and a cancerous tumor on her side. That's what the metacam is actually for, but I think the anti-inflammatory side of it helps her as well. We were going to switch her to Tramadol and Prednisone a few weeks ago, but she almost died while under light sedation for an attempt at removing the tumor. After that I decided to just leave things as they are and keep her comfy for as long as possible. She likely doesn't have much time left, but she's happy and pain free for now.

Good luck. I hope you find something that helps Muddy.

[Ginger's Mom]

I am glad you changed the title, somehow I have missed some updates. I did listen to the video and it didn't sound like my dog's coughing, but I didn't want to say anything until you went to the vet. I hope you and your vet can come up with some plan or medication that helps Muddy.

[katslady]

I am sorry to hear about the DM diagnosis.I had a friend that had a German Sheppard with DM.She tried treatment with acupuncture and Chinese herbs.I don't know if it slowed the degeneration down, but it made her feel better to try something.He had the disease for 4+ years. After 2 years he was completely down in the rearend,but they did not give up. She bought him a wheel chair. He did great in it, he could run and play with the other dogs again.It never seemed to bother him that he could not use his rear legs.He did though have bowel control issues, especially while sleeping.He was very happy in his final 2 years with his wheel chair. He had to be PTS for other issues at 14 years old. My friend is still so thankful she got the wheelchair for him and they had 2 more years together.I wish you good luck for Muddy and hope you find some treatment that will make it easier on both of you.katslady

[Catlady711]

Sorry to hear that Muddy has something like that. I'm not familiar with that one by name. Most of the ones we see at work are more of a head tilt which is a different thing. I did google it and some findings suggest that regular disk problems may be misdiagnosed as DM by xray alone, and suggest an MRI, although I'm not sure how much different the treatment would be.

The Metacam would help the arthritis, however with elevated BUN & Creatinie levels it would not be as safe. Any NSAID can cause problems with already elevated levels of liver and kidneys. However maybe your vet can give you some Dasaquin or something similar that may help a bit without being as damaging to the organs.

I hope Muddy's coughing stops soon and at least has one less thing to bother him. Hopefully Muddy's vet will find a treatment that works for him. Thank you for posting an update.