What do you base your political decisions on?

[lizbud]

For instance, without the COL, USAR ******* after his name, would that statement have even been posted on this board?

You bet your life it would. I like these ideas offered and I don't care if
he graduated high school or not. This man makes sense.


This man is also retired from Military service & can say what he wants to say.

What are they going to do, hold his military retirement check? Retired
Military are allowed to use their former rank after they leave the service.
It's done all the time.

[RICHARD]

It's done all the time.

Let's see if my creds make me anymore noteworthy?


Reporter KGIL Radio (RET.), Writer/proofreader JHFPHS Optimist (RET.), Volunteer KFH Charities/Community Outreach (RET.), Contributor LADN/LAT (RET.), LIMOM (RET.)


Nope, I still sound like an AH.

_---------------

My nephew -USMC (RET.) - and I once had spirited convo about Bill Clinton and what he thought about him. My nephew surprised me, He sheepishly shrugged his shoulders, smiled and said that he could not comment on his CIC? This was at the time of BC's budget cuts and pillaging of the AF of America.

To this day he really won't comment about politics. He was a lowly grunt, but I am proud that he didn't take the rules that he was under-and is no longer bound by seriously.

It's like driving, You get less stressed and arrive in better spirits when you stop tooting your horn at every stop sign.

[lizbud]

Let's see if my creds make me anymore noteworthy?


Reporter KGIL Radio (RET.), Writer/proofreader JHFPHS Optimist (RET.), Volunteer KFH Charities/Community Outreach (RET.), Contributor LADN/LAT (RET.), LIMOM (RET.)


Nope, I still sound like an AH.

Now Richard, don't be so hard on yourself.

How many more titles do you want to have in your lifetime? How many job
apps did you put in today? Any nibbles?

[RICHARD]

Now Richard, don't be so hard on yourself.

How many more titles do you want to have in your lifetime? How many job
apps did you put in today? Any nibbles?

Dearest,

IT's all in jest, I have to laugh at myself!

I wasted too many years wondering what people thought about me, to really find out what I thought about myself.

Plus, if I laugh long enough, the people around me start to laugh, too!


----------

I actually do have a job, IT's taking care of mom!!!

Psst....LIMOM means Legend In My Own Mind!

[Lady's Human]

You cannot use your retired military rank to advance a political statement, period. It's a violation of both the UCMJ and the Hatch act. And yes, they can withhold pay and take other punitive actions, and I wish they would. There were various issues in the 2004 campaign with both sides trotting out wounded soldiers, vets, etc. in uniform. Everyone got a quick reminder about the Hatch act, and no further action was taken, as usual.

Had he not used the rank, I almost guarantee Obama's campaign wouldn't have made that mailing.

[Puckstop31]

People who are writing political statements need to leave their military status out of their statements.

It's never prosecuted, but it is a violation of federal law and the UCMJ.

Roger!

Article 88—Contempt toward officials

“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Elements.

(1) That the accused was a commissioned officer of the United States armed forces;
(2) That the accused used certain words against an official or legislature named in the article;
(3) That by an act of the accused these words came to the knowledge of a person other than the accused; and
(4) That the words used were contemptuous, either in themselves or by virtue of the circumstances under which they were used.

Explanation.

The official or legislature against whom the words are used must be occupying one of the offices or be one of the legislatures named in Article 88 at the time of the offense. Neither “Congress” nor “legislature” includes its members individually. “Governor” does not include “lieutenant governor.” It is immaterial whether the words are used against the official in an official or private capacity. If not personally contemptuous, ad-verse criticism of one of the officials or legislatures named in the article in the course of a political discussion, even though emphatically expressed, may not be charged as a violation of the article.

Similarly, expressions of opinion made in a purely private conversation should not ordinarily be charged. Giving broad circulation to a written publication containing contemptuous words of the kind made punishable by this article, or the utterance of contemptuous words of this kind in the presence of military subordinates, aggravates the offense. The truth or falsity of the statements is immaterial.

Maximum punishment.

Dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.

There are other places... But I think this works.

ETA... Personally, what an arrogant statement from a REMF. A doctor at that!! When was the last time HIS ass was really on the line???? Ask a guy on the pointy edge of the stick what THEY think.

* Please note that my opinion on the Iraq war is rather negative. So please don't flame me as some GWB supporter.

[Edwina's Secretary]

You cannot use your retired military rank to advance a political statement, period. It's a violation of both the UCMJ and the Hatch act. And yes, they can withhold pay and take other punitive actions, and I wish they would. There were various issues in the 2004 campaign with both sides trotting out wounded soldiers, vets, etc. in uniform. Everyone got a quick reminder about the Hatch act, and no further action was taken, as usual.

Had he not used the rank, I almost guarantee Obama's campaign wouldn't have made that mailing.

How sad. I did not realize Americans are required to give up their constitutional rights when they join the military. Rather ironic, isn't it?

So how did those horrid Swift Boaters get away with lying about a fellow soldier? Is that permissable? How are you allowed to express policitical opinions on here? How are former military people allowed to serve in congress or the cabinet?

And...how does McCain get away with it?

[Puckstop31]

How sad. I did not realize Americans are required to give up their constitutional rights when they join the military. Rather ironic, isn't it?

So how did those horrid Swift Boaters get away with lying about a fellow soldier? Is that permissable? How are you allowed to express policitical opinions on here? How are former military people allowed to serve in congress or the cabinet?

And...how does McCain get away with it?

This comes down to reading comprehension again...

If I said something like this...

"All Democrats are misguided fools and deserve to be killed.

SFC Brian D B**** USA, Retired"

THAT is a UCMJ violation. If I left out the rank and (ret) part... Its all good. And yes, it is THAT simple.

[Lady's Human]

ES,

I can certainly engage in political discussions, but cannot do so while using my rank to add emphasis to my statements.

I can attend a political rally, anti-war protest, or another political function, but not in uniform.

I can solicit donations for a campaign, but cannot use my military status in those communications.

As stated many times through the career of a soldier, remember, we're a dictatorship defending a democracy. You can think it, but keep your trap shut.

[Edwina's Secretary]

But I still don't get my question answered! How does McCain get away with the constant reference to his military service. Can't he lose his pension or something?

And I still think it is very sad that your freedom of speech is curtailed!

[Lady's Human]

McCain has never used his rank to make a political statement. I can refer to my service all I want, but I cannot make a statement using my rank to add emphasis or appear in uniform.

[Oggyflute]

ES,

I can certainly engage in political discussions, but cannot do so while using my rank to add emphasis to my statements.

I can attend a political rally, anti-war protest, or another political function, but not in uniform.

I can solicit donations for a campaign, but cannot use my military status in those communications.

As stated many times through the career of a soldier, remember, we're a dictatorship defending a democracy. You can think it, but keep your trap shut.

I think you'll find that's pretty much the deal in any democracy. We have this law down under called the "Official Secrets act". Quite a wide ranging and broad piece of work, and I'm still exonerably bound to it twenty years after I 'retired'. It does manage to keep me out of jury duty though apparently.

[Puckstop31]

And I still think it is very sad that your freedom of speech is curtailed!

I can understand how most people would feel this way. But remember, the military is about going into harms way and doing some very dangerous work. When bullets are flying, there is no time to take a vote or have your soldiers opinions heard.

It truly is the only job in the world where a dictatorship WORKS. Sure, in garrison/admin mode stuff, you COULD 'take a poll' or hear the gripes and stuff. But in combat, ONE leader's word is final.

* No, we do not create robots in the Army. We encourage initiative and forward thinking. It is one of the reasons our military is so good at what it does. Even the very lowest level leader is allowed and encouraged to modify the plan, as long as the mission is accomplished. But, when you are given a order, especially in combat (and as long as it is lawful) you carry out that order, NOW.

[lizbud]

You cannot use your retired military rank to advance a political statement, period. It's a violation of both the UCMJ and the Hatch act. And yes, they can withhold pay and take other punitive actions, and I wish they would. There were various issues in the 2004 campaign with both sides trotting out wounded soldiers, vets, etc. in uniform. Everyone got a quick reminder about the Hatch act, and no further action was taken, as usual.

Had he not used the rank, I almost guarantee Obama's campaign wouldn't have made that mailing.

The statement by a retired officer was NOT used in any mailing.

Re using the Hatch Act to enforce silence on political issues on non serving
military members is unconstitutional. I would love to see a court case on this
very issue, but it won't happen. Now, if a active military officer voiced his
personal beliefs while in service of his country, then that's a different ball
game.

[Edwina's Secretary]

McCain has never used his rank to make a political statement. I can refer to my service all I want, but I cannot make a statement using my rank to add emphasis or appear in uniform.

I do not understand the difference between talking about one's service and using rank to add emphasis. If someone uses a photo of him/herself in uniform, how is that different than appearing in uniform? And who is to say whether the rank was used to add emphasis or for some other reason?

Can someone say, I am a retired Captain in the Army and one thing I learned...blah, blah, and I feel that...blah, blah. Is it only if they put all the letters after their name they break the law? Can they criticize congress but not the president? Can they criticize a mayor or the Chief of Police?

I do know this. Living as I do in the Land of Retired Military (and many active as well with Camp Pendleton) next time I see a letter to the editor signed with Ret. Whatever, USMC I will insist the criminal be apprehended!