Idiots in public

[Sighthounds4me]

Okay, so this is more of a rant about people behavior, rather than dog behavior. But it affects how mine act, so it goes here!

We have a local farmers' market every week. We actually have two, but dogs are only allowed at the one on Wednesdays. We have taken dogs to this farmers' market for a few weeks now, as socialization.

Last night, we took Cooper and our foster girl Indigo. She's a good dog, but not that good with strange dogs that get in her face. If she's able to keep her distance, and feel out the situation, she seems to do okay.

Last week, there was a family with a young child (perhaps 8-10 years old), walking a poo mix. The dog was about the size of a miniature Poodle. The child was walking the dog on a retractable leash; BAD combination. Mom was about 10 feet behind her on the sidewalk, with many people between them (it was crowded). Kid allowed the poo to get right up to my dogs. Thankfully, I had Manero, and DH had Cooper, and they are both okay with small dogs. But I still said something to kid, explaining that that was not the right way to introduce two strange dogs. I then threw a look to mom, who was appropriately sheepish about it, and apologized, saying she had explained that to kid, too (Then WHY THE H were you not closer to kid?!?!).

Anyway. Last night, same kid, had same poo on same leash. Poo went right up to Indigo. She was BESIDE herself, trying to kill the poo! DH and his sister had Indigo, one by the leash, the other by the collar, but she was so determined, they had trouble. Kid was laughing, apparently thinking Indigo wanted to play. I shot a look to mom again, and she didn't say a word.

Next week, I will say something not-so-nice if this happens again. This is ridiculous! This child is FAR to young to be walking a dog by herself, especially since she has demonstrated that she cannot listen to simple direction! You are cruising to get that dog eaten; do you really want this child to see that? Maybe you should educate yourself, and realize that you are creating a dangerous situation!

Pair that situation with the moron with the Newfie mix. The dog was almost as big as her, and she was a frail old lady. We met them on one side of the street, and she allowed the dog to walk right up to Indigo. It was very poor dog manners, but lady thought, aww, cute, they want to play! Um...no! We explained that when a dog approaches another dog head-on like that, it's very aggressive. She was like "what...?"

Then we met them on the other side of the street. We had met up with friends. The Newfie dragged his owner to us (proving the dog was too big for her!) DH, his sister, AND our friend Sean were trying to control Indigo. DH got between the dog and Indigo, SIL pulled back on the leash with Sean's help. Indigo still almost bit the dog. I was livid, and let the woman know: "CONTROL your dog! DON'T let him approach other dogs rudely!" She was STILL clueless! I might giver her a copy of The Other End of the Leash next week, so she can learn about canine body language!

Why do so many people get dogs when they clearly have no clue how to manage them?!?!

[IRescue452]

First thing I'd like to say is that a farmer's market is not the best place to socialize Indigo, especially since you know that there are idiot dog owners there. I bet half of them think badly of you for having a "dangerous" dog at the farmers market, which is a place to go buy produce, not start arguements over dogs. If you really want to socialize her at the farmer's market, bring her in a muzzle. You'll have explaining to do, but the more people that ask, the more people you get to educate about socialization.

Second, and Joe Schmo can go out and buy whatever dog they want. Assume everybody is ignorant and idiotic with their dog and do what you need to do to keep the situation under control without expecting any input from the other owner. I know it sounds unfair that you have to go out of your way while others do nothing, but if you care about your dog, you'll walk a wide circle around a dog who is being walked on a retractable leash by a child. If another owner takes innitiative with their dog, great, but you should always have a handle on your dog first.

[4 Dog Mother]

I have to say I agree with IRescue452. If the farmer's market is that crowded and especially with young children and other dogs, yours should not be there. The owner with the child and small dog are not going to look like the ones in the wrong if your dog hurts or kills the small one. No matter how you or anyone else sees it. You are going to be accused of bringing a dangerous dog to the market especially if others remember you from weeks before. And if the child would get bit or seriously hurt from being too close or in the middle, you are opening yourself up to a major law suit. It may not be fair but little in life is!

[MoonandBean]

When I see a dog out in public, I usually assume that it's a well behaved, social dog. Sunny is a puppy and wants to run up to every dog she sees to play with it. Of course, we always ask the owner if that's ok and if they're good with puppies. I do think though that people tend to feel the same way...if a dog is at petsmart or at a farmer's market; it's safe. Thanks for reminding me that there may be a dog out in a public setting who may not appreciate an eager sniff from an eager pup.

[catnapper]

The thing about socialization is picking the right place and time to go. A busy market for an "iffy" dog is way too much stimulation. Sorry, but you were at as much fault as the woman who let her child hold the leash. Two parts to what could be a disasterous meeting.

With an iffy dog, you need to pick a quiet time to take her out. Perhaps early morning before anybody else comes. Just the two of you and her learning the space. Then the two of you and a few strangers. You slowly move to a crowded environment complete with kids and other dogs. Thats more or less graduation for her, not a beginning quiz.

I can guarantee that the woman is asking everyone this "WHY does she bring an aggressive dog to the market?!?!" Because I know I'd be asking the same question.

I take Callie to our farmer's market every Sunday.... but it took me a while to trust her to be able to handle the event. She's a jumpaholic, and I didn't take her until I knew I could count on her responding to my cues despite the temptation. Its a LOT of work for me to stay focused on her, watch what others are doing, and keep an eye on everything.

[Sighthounds4me]

Okay, the thing is, it's not like we have *never* gotten her out to socialize her. This was the next step in the socialization.

AND, she has never reacted like this to other dogs. There are also few dogs at this farmer's market, and the newfie mix was one we'd never seen before (and we attend the market regularly, with and without dogs).

My point is that even after being warned, and asked to correct the problem, these people simply thought this was play. They have no clue what canine behavior is about.

I know my dogs. I know this foster. She's been with us 14+ months now. I would NEVE put my dogs or my fosters in a position where they need to defend themselves, or in a position of anything other than safe.

Thanks for treating me like I am a moron. Never mind. I thought you'd all understand...

[Taz_Zoee]

This is why, unfortunately, I cannot take Zoee to these types of things. When she is on leash and sees (not sure of punctuation here, sorry) other dogs she goes crazy. Her hair stands up on her back and she barks her head off. I know she is not being "aggressive", but to other people she looks like she is going to tear someones head off. Once she meets the dog (if the owner allows it) she just wants to play.
We have gone to several art and wine events where other people have their dogs and I am so sad because I'd love to bring Zoee. This is nobody's fault but my own. I should have socialized her more from the beginning. Now at an off leash dog park she is great! I will not make this mistake with the next dog I have. Socialization will be TOP priority.

ETA: Sighthounds4me, we were posting at the same time. I do understand what you are saying, and I'm sure others are only trying to help (although, I can't speak for others).
I almost didn't post in this thread, because I tend to not post in "heated" threads. But I just wanted to share my own experience. I'm in NO way saying you are not a good dog owner. Please know that.

[shais_mom]

I think I see both sides. I can understand why you want to socialize her, but maybe that isn't the best place for it.

No need to be so defensive.

HEY-Everyone has their own opinions, and when you ask for them, you run the risk of finding people that don't agree with you. We aren't doing anything wrong by disagreeing with you, so you don't have to make us out to be the bad guy.
Like when I walked into my friends house the other nite where my dog is welcome, one of her other friends (that I had just met the day before so I know very little about her) started squealing "I don't like dogs, I don't like dogs." I had barely walked into the room yet and she was yelping "can you get her?" as she cowered behind the blanket. Ok so part of that was my fault, b/c I didn't know this person was there, I didn't know she didn't like dogs, and I should have had my dog on the leash until I found out who it was.

There's a lady I've met thru our dog park that has 2 greyhounds and one of them gets extremely nervous around other very SMALL dogs, and she keeps her muzzled for the safety of the other dogs b/c they grey has a high prey drive.
I ran into this lady again at our Local pawsfest where she and her son had both greyhounds on leash. We were standing in line waiting for the walk to start and her male was sniffing at a border collie (they have a BC at home) and the lady that runs the border collie rescue (who irritates me on site b/c I think everything she does is geared towards making herself the center of attention) and the BC lady turned and physically grabbed the greyhound by the nose PICKED HIM UP and shoved him back and said "GET BACK THANK YOU".
no explanation as to why. If the BC was dog aggressive - didn't appear to be, he wasn't standing off with the grey.
Someone wrote into the latest issue of TV guide about the show Baby Borrowers and Ultimate Dog (or whatever the title is) and said how scary society is that we revere dogs over children. for how many years have we had to have liscenses for our dogs but any 13-14 year old can have kids??
There are bad people and bad pet owners around - and its our job as responsible pet people to educate them the best to our ability.

[shais_mom]

But I just wanted to share my own experience. I'm in NO way saying you are not a good dog owner. Please know that.

I don't think anyone was and no one called her a moron either.

[Taz_Zoee]

I don't think anyone was and no one called her a moron either.

Oh, I know. I didn't think anyone was either. But I just wanted to clarify it for what I said.

[4 Dog Mother]

I did not call her a bad dog owner or a moron either.

[K9karen]

John and I occassionally take Mz Logan to craft shows, sidewalk sales, etc. She's very excited with all the smells etc, but relatively great. Usually, people ask if they can pet her, and knowing her behavior, I will either explain that she's on edge at the moment, or she's fine. After about 30 minutes she's as good as gold.

A few weekends ago, at an outdoor craft show, Logan was in top form. Very happy and well behaved. Remember, she goes to the dog park weekly and is a loner, but will intermingle when off lead. She was OK with the dogs at the show, as long as they walked pass each other. One lady with a Bouvier (I think) asked if her dog could go to Logan. Since I didn't want a problem, I politely said it might not be a good idea with all the stuff going on. What does she do? She practically RUNS after us! She weaved between people to get to us! Her dog was barking, upsetting all the people. Instead of calming her dog, or just stopping to chill, she made her dog a nervous wreck.

We evaded her, thankfully, but kept an eye out. We spotted her with more dog people, trying to get away from her barking dog.

I know Logan's not perfect, but we seriously consider the events before we take her. She did excellent at the local 4th of July parade. She got a lot of attention and loved it.