Zoee's being aggressive?

[Taz_Zoee]

Zoee has never shown aggression. Although I do say she is leash aggressive, only because when she is on a leash and see's another dog she acts and sounds like she's going to tear the dog apart. Until they get near each other (if the other owner allows it) and she smells them, then she is perfectly fine.
Besides that the only time she even showed slight "aggression" was toward a little Boston Terrier that was bugging her. And that was so mild I wouldn't even count it.
Well this past Tuesday we were at the dog park and it was very busy. Zoee was LOVING it. She was having a blast running all over the place. The next thing I know she has a Husky after her. So instead of backing down (like I expected her to do) she stood up for herself and went back at him/her to let them know not to mess with her. I was shocked! And in a way a little proud that she won't let anyone be mean to her.
So, we went to the park again last night and all was fine. Today we went and as soon as we walked through the gate she started snarling and stuff with a mini Schnauzer. Oh great. So I walk around the park and we meet up with a beautiful Golden Retriever who wants to play with her. She gets nasty with him too. I tell her one more time and we're leaving. Sure enough we get back around to the entrance gate and she gets into it with the Schnauzer again. That was it. We left.
I am so upset by this and don't know what to do. I don't want to be known as the aggressive Aussie. I feel like that Husky ruined her.
I do know we are taking a break from the dog park for a while. Maybe we were going too often and she is just getting overwhelmed.
I know (and as Bruce just told me) we need to get her into training again. But honestly we cannot afford that at this time. Is there anything I can do here at home with her?

[dukedogsmom]

How old is she? She may be having pain for some reason. Duke started getting snappy when his hip dysplasia started bothering him more. When did she have her last vet visit? Just something to think about. Does she like to play fetch? I have a pretty long hallway where I can play fetch with Dasher inside since we don't have a fenced in yard.

[Giselle]

Hey Cindy, don't worry! As you know, Ivy and I are going through her own behavioral problems saga, and we can relate.

First, I wouldn't say that the leash stuff is aggression. Considering that Zoee has always been good at dog parks prior to the Husky incident, her leash stuff is called "leash reactivity". A lot of regular dog park goers get really excited upon seeing strange dogs because they equate strange dogs to roughhousing and play. But when the dog is restricted by the leash, that excitement is channeled into frustration:

Although I do say she is leash aggressive, only because when she is on a leash and see's another dog she acts and sounds like she's going to tear the dog apart. Until they get near each other (if the other owner allows it) and she smells them, then she is perfectly fine.

Also, I'm curious. Is Zoee just telling the other dogs to back off or does she actually seek out other dogs to fight them?

There is a huuuuuge world of difference between the two and it sounds like Zoee is just telling them to back off. Ivy, on the other hand, requires a muzzle and serious training

[Taz_Zoee]

Val, Zoee is only 3 years old. Her last vet visit was on March 26th. She had seizures on Easter morning and we went to the ER vet then did a follow up the next Wednesday with our regular vet.

Sophie, thank you, I like leash reactivity MUCH better. As for the question does she seek them out to be mean....No. With the Schnauzer yesterday he was the first dog she went up to then she just snarled at him. And with the Golden Retreiver he was just wanting to play with her and she snapped at him. Then the second encounter with the same Schnauzer it looked like Zoee was going after him, but I think that was the fact that the Schnauzer was already scared of her from the first encounter so then she DID go after him in that way. Or the Schnauzer lashed out first out of fear, I'm not really sure...they were standing behind people when it happened and Zoee almost knocked someone over.

Just to note: These were the only two dogs she had a problem with. In fact there were two other Mini Schnauzers Zoee met and she was totally fine with them, plus a bunch of other dogs. Sigh.....I just don't know. Like I said, we are taking a break for a while. Maybe next weekend I'll try to take her to a different park and see how she is.

Thanks for your responses Val and Sophie.

[kallisto4529]

Oh my sweet Zoee girl!!! Cindy do you think the seizure might have changed her attitude a little? I dont know if it is possible but it does affect the brain some. Could be she was just having a bad day!!!! I hope everything turns out ok, I will try and give you a call this weekend. give her and Taz some kisses.

[Taz_Zoee]

You know what Marti, I actually did think maybe it had something to do with her seizures. But it's very inconsistent. So I just don't know. I'm still going to blame that Husky! The owner wasn't very nice about it either, like it was Zoee's fault and I've seen them there before and have heard her yelling her dogs name LOTS of times. The dogs name is Keeva (pronounced that way anyway).
You sure can try to give me a call this weekend. I have NO idea what I'm doing, but I'll be happy to talk to you if I can. And I will gladly deliver your kisses to my babies tonight.

[Animalhouse26]

Well, Not being there to see the behavior makes it very hard to Diagnose. I know my Falise is like that as well. she has been VERY Social since 5 mo when I got her, and Dog parks, Doggy Day care.. everything. But as of the past yr, she has started getting almost Grumpy. She will growl at the dogs in the begining, But give her like 2 min or a ball to chase, and she forgets. I just tell her "Falise cut it out" Or I will leash her, and walk her to another area. What for her to relax.. and she is fine after that. But, I am VERY in tune with my dogs behavior. I can usually Point out a dog in the dog park to stay away from. It is a great Idea to have them.. But, can also be a pain. As people bring there dogs there as there ONLY Way of excersize. And this can start the issue of aggression because of the pent up frusteration. So, you just have to be aware of who is there... and know the behaviors the best you can. It is a toughy. :-/ But, Like I said.. This is IMO.. And from what I know.. from MY Dog.

[venus74]

I have an Akita (that are known to be dog-aggressive) whom I have been taking to a dog park since she was 5 months old. I am a huge advocate of the dog park and credit it with making her so social. She is just over 3 years old now. We still take her and she is still great with the other dogs. I have heard (keep in mind that this comes from those that think the dog park is an awful place) that around three years of age some dogs will start to change their disposition and they may become more dog-aggressive. I would be so sad if that happened and so far I haven't seen any sign of it, but that was something I was told. I was being warned to not let my gaurd down as things can change. (???)

[Giselle]

I don't think one can necessarily gauge at what point a dog becomes aggressive, and I think blanket generalizations are unfair. It's good that you're on your guard, but you mustn't keep yourself on your toes just because you have an Akita. Yes, Akitas require certain owners, but it sounds like your pup has been heavily socialized from the beginning and you really need not worry. Should you be proactive and always supervising? Of course, but I would do that with my ultra-friendly-greyhound, too

However, the younger the aggression/reactivity shows, the more likely it is that the problem is genetic. Ivy started showing reactivity at around 6 months. VERY young. Since the beginning, I've always thought she was predisposed to certain behaviors and the fact that her problems arose so early in life tells me that much of it was already ingrained into her. I like dog parks and I advocate for them all the time, but many many dogs are not suitable for dog parks/doggy day care. If your dog is suitable, fine, you're lucky! If not, fine, find another venue.

As for Zoee's problems, Cindy, I'd say try her again but muzzle her. Some people will be put off by it, but I am a firm believer in muzzles for safety's sake. I've seen Zoee at parks before, and she seems very relaxed, so I think these few incidents could definitely be attributed to the Husky incident. Another way to help her is to give her a job. If she's snapping out of fear, give her something constructive to do so that the dog become less of something to fear than just mere distractions. For example, with Ivy, I work a lot of recalls and heeling. Anytime you fear Zoee's going to lash out, recall her and move away from the offending dog. Good luck with that

[Taz_Zoee]

Exactly, luck is what I need. She can not be distracted when we are at the park. Balls and frisbees mean nothing to her. She is a follower and loves to chase any dog that runs. She has also been running over some of the smaller dogs. But my outlook on that is don't bring your small dog into the big dog park if you're worried about them getting ran over. And I've never had an owner get upset for getting "rolled" by Zoee......yet.
I'm not against muzzles, but honestly I don't think I could bring myself to put one on Zoee. She can't even handle a gentle leader over her nose. I'm sure if I had a muzzle on her she would freak out. If we ever "dress" her up with glasses or hats and things she freezes and won't move. And I don't think we are at the point to need a muzzle. I sure hope we NEVER get to that point either.
I guess I could tuck her leash into her collar so she'd be easier to grab. With her long hair it's hard to find her collar quickly.
I'll try the park again in a while. I'm not giving up on it. I am just afraid of her hurting someone elses dog. That would kill me.
I seriously think it was the incident with the Husky. I believe she is afraid that another dog is going to do what the husky did so she is reacting before they have a chance to. Does that make sense? How would I break her of that? Maybe I'll try her on leash and see how she acts for a bit.

Thank you all for your advice and suggestions. I do appreciate them. And I'll keep you updated on our next visit to the park.

[Giselle]

If it is due to the Husky, then it's fear. You summed it up almost perfectly:

I believe she is afraid that another dog is going to do what the husky did so she is reacting before they have a chance to.

That's fear aggression in a nutshell =)

So if it is fear, the two basic suggestions are DS and CC: desensitize and counter condition. At this point, I don't think DS is really all that relevant or necessary, but definitely counter condition strange dogs and think about giving her an alternative job to do.

Does she pay attention to you in public spaces? What about in dog parks? If no to both, then work on basic obed. with distractions. Gradually work your way up to basic obed. in the dog park, away from other dogs. Then, you can do it in the pit of it all. You want to build up her confidence and let her know that other dogs aren't a big deal and that they won't hurt her. If she starts to zone out, take yourself out of the situation and try to do the basic obed. in a quieter place. Alternatively, you could just ask for eye contact/focus. If she's showing a lot of stress signals (sniffing, zoning out, frantically roaming all over the place), take her out of the situation and try to see what her trigger is and at what point the triggers start to get at her.

Aggression is a p.i.t.a to deal with, but it's really rewarding once you work past the nitty gritty Ivy and I can COMPLETELY relate!

[Taz_Zoee]

Oh Sophie, I really need to meet up with you again soon.
Zoee is completely spastic when we even get near the dog park. I have thought about taking her out there but not going INTO the park. But she will go psycho and everyone will think I can't control my dog. The other day on our way out there others were coming toward us from the park and she began to spaz*. So I redirected her and we began to walk WAY around everyone else so she couldn't "see" them. But then a friend called to me so we went over to talk to him.
I have thought about trying the technique I have seen on here before. When she begins to act up turn around and walk the other way. I really need to work on desensitizing her to other dogs even being within eye sight of her. I think that's my first step.
I can take a different direction toward the dog park and not our usual path and work with her that way. I'd like to be able to walk her around the park without any problems before taking her inside. So that will be my goal over the next.....however long it takes, lol. Basic obed here at home and evenutally to the park area. Whew, it's nice to have a plan.
I just hope PT doesn't think I have a horrible dog and I can't control her.

I can't wait to meet up with you as soon as school is out Sophie.

*definition of spaz= she starts whining, the hair on her back goes up, she starts barking and pulling toward the other dog. Sometimes she even kicks her back feet, kicking up dirt and stuff.

[Giselle]

Oooh, I'd love to work with Zoee

She sounds like a classic overstimulated pup. Trust me, I can totally relate!!

Have you done clicker work with her? If not, get started with Doggie Zen (basically, clicking for eye-contact). That'll give you a strong foundation. I actually have a 4 day weekend this weekend, if you want to meet up. I could also bring Ivy as a demo dog =)

(PSST - how far are you from Martinez? Our classes are there, and we have a 1 hr free practice at the facility this Sunday, if that works for you)

ETA: I think Briones is near you. I've never been there, but my trainer tells me it's like a trail. I do bring Ivy to trails and that works really well for her because she has a job (always stick by me), so when we see other dogs, she'll sniff them for 3 seconds and then run back to me.

[Taz_Zoee]

I PM'd you Sophie!