Border Collies

[BorderColliez]

Can anyone give me info on Border Collies? I have been getting really interested in the breed lately and even found a breeder in my area. I have been studying them a lot, but figured you guys might have some logical info as well

[K9karen]

I'm sure you'll get lots of replies..but all I can tell you is that they're one of my favorite breeds, I marvel at them, and they're WAY too smart for me..which is why I don't have one. I can just about outsmart my GSD mix and my RB mix Cody, LOL!

Have fun exploring!

[3muttsandaboston]

Well you will need to have a job for your dog to do. (herding, flyball, agility, obedience ect...) they are very smart and not for the average or first time dog owner. Saying that I can't wait to get a border collie! That is what my next dog is going to be!

[cloverfdx]

Yep i agree they definitely need a job, one including sheep would be a lot of Border Collies dream . If not Agility, Obedience, Flyball etc to keep those busy minds sane. Other than needing 'work' they are wonderful dogs, not the easiest to live with at times but worth it in the end.

My 'twins' Elvis and Tinny .....

[Freedom]

I'e attended border collie trials many, many times, and spoken with owners. They HAVE to herd, they will herd anything - cars if you don't give them something. You should have lots of land available for them. Sheep, ducks, children, will all be herded. For this reason, much as I love hem, I know I could not have one myself. So I just enjoy everyone else's!

[Canis-Lupess]

I've had border collies all my life. I've had plenty of experience with these dogs...all from working lines too.

Firstly, I assume you've had dogs before. I would never advise getting a BC if you'd not had any prior experience with dogs generally and would not advise getting a BC as a first dog.

Next, be sure you have plenty of time to give them. They don't just need physical stimulation like exercise, they need mental stimulation too. As the others said, they need a job. That job can be simple for us. Mine are obsessed with simply fetching a ball and would do it until they dropped if you let them. I used to do agility and flyball with them when they were young and also used to teach them general tricks and moves like those they do in the dancing to music.
Our Jess used to like searching and I'd hide a ball somewhere in long grass etc...and let her go and search for it. She also liked to play with the hosepipe, attacking the water that came out. She loved sprinklers.

Border collies are very sensitive dogs. They don't respond well to any type of harsh treatment but then they don't need it anyway because they are very willing to please, you just need to make sure YOU know how to teach them stuff.
They often suffer from sound phobias and panic ar such things as fireworks and thunder..something to take into consideration. Still, this sensitive nature makes them very attuned to their owners, they can almost read your mind. They can use this against you though so you have to be knowledgeable enough to stay on step ahead. If you develop a good relationship with them where they are rewarded for the behaviour you want, then they are less likely to do this. Borders are known for developing a strong bond with their owners and are often a one man dog, having a preference for a given person over others. It is important that they have some of their own time each day to prevent over-attachment and seperation anxiety. The border collie rescue site in the UK suggests that Border collies spend the night alone...not in bed with you.
This tendancy can also affect the way they are with other dogs. I have found it quite common among borders to not like dogs with pushed in faces like boxers, bulldogs etc....They can't read their facial expressions properly and tend to really dislike this. I observed a BC bitch at a horticultural show once. The owner was sitting down watching a dancing to music demonstration and the dog was paying more attention to a boxer puppy a few feet behind. She was watching the pup intently the whole time and, whenever it got too close or looked at her, her lips would curl up. She noticed me looking and she shuffled over to have a fuss. Such a sweet dog, lol. She was also fine with other dogs. The owner mentioned she hated dogs with pushed in faces. Mine hate dogs with pushed in faces too.

Borders also seem to remember everything bad that happens to them. This probably comes from having to remember that livestock can lash out at them. A border collie kicked by a cow or horse is more likely to have a scar left on his memory than his hide. Still, this also comes into play where experiences with other dogs or people are concerned. If they are attacked by a certain breed of dog, they may hate all other dogs of that breed for the rest of their lives. They might remember that dog several years down the line even if they never saw it inbetween. They are the same with people, able to remember people they knew that they haven't seen for several years.
I doubt they remember the actual incidents but the details of it do stick strongly in their mind and their fear is triggered whenever they come across something similar again.

They can be very manipulative and know how to get others to do what they want. They are also very obsessive compulsive. Every Border has something it likes to do and it will do it constantly when it can or mither you to do it constantly such as throwing a ball. Some people can find this tiring.

If they aren't given enough to do, they'll find something to do and it generally won't be to your liking.
They need to be fed a lower protien diet because anything higher than about 20% for an adult dog can make them neurotic and cause skin problems. Flea allergies are common in Borders too, especially as they get older.

Many of our borders have had a weird fetish with electric lawn mowers, motorbikes etc..anything with a small engine. The sound of the engine sends them whappy and they attack it. If my dogs were loose when you mowed the lawn, they'd attack it, lol. Mist used to keep rushing in and grabbing it, actually lifting it off the floor when my dad tried to mow the lawn. Our Jess is the same and so was her younger sister, Tess.

Border collies also have a strong prey drive. Herding is just a modified type of hunting and lacks the actual attack but that doesn't mean they won't attack if they catch something. All our borders have had very strong prey drives and will chase and kill smaller wild animals when they get the chance. Ours have even eaten the creature after they killed it, quickly mind, because I've have stopped them if not. There were a couple of occasions when our Jess swallowed voles or mice whole really quick after catching them before I could stop her. Her father also managed to scoff a rabbit he caught on the odd occasion. Both he, Jess and Mist also used to chase birds, especially larger ones like crows and gulls if they landed on the playing field. Jess would stalk them first and then set off running. As the birds would always see them coming and fly off, I used to let them do it to blow off steam. They'd always come straight back once the birds had flown off. Jess used to love crows especially because they'd start swooping down a bit and making noises at her and she'd start barking back, haha. They were always careful not to swoop too low, lol. She'd have had them if they did.


Obviously, there are the possible genetic disorders to watch out for like collie eye anomaly etc..and hip dysplasia. There is also some deafeness and heart defects associated with borders. I've not encountered any such genetic defects in our dogs but I have heard about heart murmers and such in other peoples dogs.

Border collie bitches especially but dogs also can have a tendancy to not be that interested in other dogs and more interested in their work. If other dogs interrupt them during their work, they can get quite nasty.
This is something I've figured from personal experience and also from seeing other BCs react at agility club when interrupted by a rogue who runs away from their owner to find a playmate and also general info from other BC owners including farmers who work their dogs and compete in sheepdog trials.
Borders don't generally run up to other dogs to cause trouble, they prefer to keep themselves to themselves.
Obviously, plenty of borders socialize perfectly well with other dogs and early socialization is a must to achieve this.

There are some borders hat engage in strong herding like activities such as trying to herd people, especially children and nipping their heels if they don't move where the dog wants them to. I've never had a border do this myself but knew somebody who did. It is a possibility. Such dogs aren't vicious mind. They don't nip in order to inflict injury but you obviously don't want your family pet to be doing this to the kids.
Otherwise, borders can be brilliant family pets who love to join in any games the kids might play such as football. Mine love football. We always had them when I was a child and so long as the BC is given what it needs and shown respect by the children, there generally isn't a problem. Our dogs were always protective of us when we were kids. They made me feel safe when I took them out for a walk. If anyone had attacked me, they'd have attacked them but were otherwise ok so long as the other person was. Still, they could sense hostility a mile off. Sometimes other kids would approach me with bad intentions and our Monty used to stand close to my leg and I could feel him grumbling and ready to defend if he needed to.

Anyway, this has only scratched the surface where BCs are concerned but it will give you a better insight from somebody who has lived with these dogs for 27 years.

[borzoimom]

This is a very active, highly intellegent breed that needs plenty of stimulation, activity and interaction - otherwise- they will find their own games. ( reasons why I do not have one..). They excell in obedience, agility etc- and its not just to excell- they need to channel that energy and intellegence. I have a friend that has had border collies her whole life. Now up there in age- she has had to resort to things that are rather funny at first glance but work- . She owns several of those floor robots- I am serious- she says instead of wasting time with toys they get bored with in one day- she bought two floor robots- and let the dogs herd them.. lol. The robots are programmed to go off several times a day- and she sets the timer for different times in the day. The breed is that driven to need stimulation their whole life- and all the dogs she has are up there in age as well.. The stimulation needed in these dogs NEVER stops.. They need it and crave it, and without it, they can be the most annoying breed probably in the dog world. - THAT IS HER QUOTE- NOT MINE- She said border collie rescue is bombed with dogs that need to be rehomed because of these traits that people thought at the time would be a good breed- only to find the breed doesnt have a " OFF " switch.

[cloverfdx]

They can be very manipulative and know how to get others to do what they want. They are also very obsessive compulsive. Every Border has something it likes to do and it will do it constantly when it can or mither you to do it constantly such as throwing a ball. Some people can find this tiring.

*Cough* Tinny is obssessed with fetching, does not matter what it is she will fetch it. I have had to resort to having no toys around when outside with her at times because she just wont give up. She was even finding bits of paper than have been carried in by the wind to fetch .

Elvis is very sensitive aswell, you cannot put any presure on him or he breaks down and refuses to work. I have seen that alot in Border's, and have seen a few good dogs ruined by harsh handling (Handling that most other dogs can handle, nothing abusive).

A friend emailed this to me last week....

[cali]

Cough* Tinny is obssessed with fetching, does not matter what it is she will fetch it. I have had to resort to having no toys around when outside with her at times because she just wont give up. She was even finding bits of paper than have been carried in by the wind to fetch

Happy is the same way, you think there is nothing around she could possably play fetch with? dont worry, she will find something lol. she is so obbessive that she will NOT play with other dogs, ever tryed to play fetch with a BC until they drop from exaustion because they refuse to exersize any other way? your arm will fall off before that ever happens lol

as for soft? depnds on the dog really, Happy is very soft UNLESS she is working, if she is actually working stock she requires very strict, and harsh corrections. every other time she is so unbelaivably soft its annoying lol

Misty however is very hard headed, she requires harsh corrections regular life. BUT when she on on stock she is extremly soft, and the smallest of things will scare her off.



now for general BC things, it depends on the strain, there are 4 BC strains all very different.

show BC- generaly more laid back, they tend to have a uniform apperance, and just about garantee'd to be rough coated. how smart and keen they are depends on how far back the show breeding goes, all strict show breeding 3-5 generations back will make for a rather dim, relaxed dog.

sport BC- insane. sport BCs are bred to be extreme drive all the time, they regularly go through multiaple homes beause people cant handle them, and I know a few that have been deemed dangerous dogs because they were so drivy.

working BC-this the the real BC, properly bred they have an off switch, so while they are able to go for hours, they can also sleep at your side when you like, they have a huge varience in apperance because they are bred for only health and working ability. the working bred BC is the most intelligent of all the types.

and finally

Pet BC- these breeders could not care less whast lines their dogs come from or what they can do, all they care about is breeding down the energy and intelligence to make the dogs suitable for a couch pototo.

[Kalei]

All I know is that they are great pets..love to run..are beautiful..and...very pretty lol. Great dogs. I know lots of people that own them, and they are the greatest dogs!

[Sophist]

Please pay close attention to even the really long posts about these dogs. I have never owned one, personally never would for a couple of reasons, but they are fabulous dogs for the right people.

Just make sure you can offer it all the stimulation it needs, because I have almost never seen a dog more miserable than bored, frustrated, cooped-up border collies.

[Canis-Lupess]

Cali - Yes, that just about sums it up for working strain Borders They know how to relax when nothing is happening but can go for hours if something is happening. Ours have generally been like that.
I like the working strain best partly because of this and partly because they are the most intelligent and manipulative, usually the most stubborn and persistent, they need that with livestock, and also as variable in appearance as any breed of dog is likely to ever be. I don't like them all to look the same.

Still, even though they do know how to relax during the quiet times, they are still certainly not for people who would leave them with nothing to do for too long or people who don't really understand dog behaviour.

With regards to the fetching thing, I chuckled when I read about other BCs fetching anything they could find because mine are the same. Our Jess and Mist would fetch anything they could find too and they often didn't have trouble because our Jess had an unexplainable built in ball radar. she'd find all the balls and toys that other dogs and people had lost. In fact, most of the toys and balls they had at home were stuff they'd found. I hardly ever had to buy them anything, haha. She'd just be trotting along and then, all of a sudden, she'd turn to the side like she was on some mission, rush off about 30 yards into the grass and bushes, pull some lost tennis ball or a toy some other dog lost out of the undergrowth and then fetch it to me, dropping it in front of where I was about to step and then standing back in that typical BC stance with her eyes fixed on the object she'd found. How she knew they were there is anyone's guess. They were often too far away for her to have smelt them and she just seemed to run straight to it like she knew it was there.
She also used to fetch tiny fragments of what used to be a football. She seemed to know it used to be a ball even though it was only a tiny piece, haha.

Sometimes, if they went up to another person for a fuss, Mist would start hanging back and watching in a certain way and you knew she wanted to have something thrown then. Jess would realise and she'd start trotting round looking for something and mist would just watch her intently. As soon as Jess did find something, she'd grab it and run straight back to the person she'd met and drop the object at their feet, haha.

There was one time, I was walking them before an evening shift at work and there was a nasty squally shower dumping it's load on us at the time. I had my waterproofs on and my hood up and fought my way along in the driving wind and rain on an exposed hill with my head bowing forward so I could just see the ground in front of my feet. As I walked along, I came across an old walking boot right in the middle of the path. I didn't think much of it and just stepped over it and carried on.
I few yards further along, I came across another walking boot. Thinking it must be the other one to the one I came across before, I still didn't think much of it and stepped over it to carry on. A little further along, I came across another walking boot, identical to the previous ones. This time, I wondered being as nobody has three feet. I stopped and looked round behind me where I'd just come from and the path was totally clear, no walking boots. I turned forward again and lifted my head up to see our Jess waiting in her stance and staring at the boot. I just laughed out loud for ages. The whole time, it was our Jess placing the boot right in my path hoping I'd kick it or throw it when I reached it but because I had my hood over my face and had my head bowed, I didn't see her do it. When I stepped over it, she'd rush back in, grab it then run ahead again and place it on the path right in the middle in a hope I'd kick it for her next time. The funniest part was that I had no idea she was doing it because I couldn't see for my hood etc.... I just thought I was running into a couple of old abandoned walking boots. That incident always makes me smile when I think about it.

There's only a Border collie would do that, haha.

Also, she makes me laugh when she finds an object to have thrown like an old plastic bottle but then she sees another bottle laying somewhere else later and she goes up to have a look to see if it is "Better", than the one she has. She'll have a look and if she likes it more, she'll grab that one and leave the previous one. Sometimes, the first one is better so she'll have a quick look at the second one then go back to the first one and grab that again. There was one time, she could hardly make her mind up and she kept moving her head from one to the other several times, going to pick each up before changing her mind and going back to the other then changing her mind again, haha. What our Jess decided made a bottle "Better", is a secret I haven't figured out yet. I know she doesn't like squashed ones though. She prefers them to be in their proper shape and in as good a condition as possible.
I remember one time when she trotted along with a plastic bottle in her mouth and she trotted past a plastic carton and "checked it out" as she went past. It was the way she looked just to see if it was, by any chance, better than what she had already.

[BorderColliez]

Thank you all so much. You all were definetly a big help.

This is the breeder I want one from. She breeds Working BCs...
White Road Border Collies

[borzoimom]

THIS SHOCKED ME BADLY!!! NO WAY in Gods' green earth would I let strangers around 4 week pups!!! NOOOOOO WAY IN THE WORLD.. http://www.hctc.com/~jwms/buy.htm

[BorderColliez]

THIS SHOCKED ME BADLY!!! NO WAY in Gods' green earth would I let strangers around 4 week pups!!! NOOOOOO WAY IN THE WORLD.. http://www.hctc.com/~jwms/buy.htm

..Excuse me?