Take a look at this dog....?

[shepgirl]

White shepherd with blue tick hound? Or somebody tried to create one of those panda shepherds and missed the boat....

[BC_MoM]

*cough*wasteofmoney*cough*

[Suki Wingy]

White shepherd with blue tick hound? Or somebody tried to create one of those panda shepherds and missed the boat....

What's a panda shepherd?

[Giselle]

A BYB-induced color pattern in GSDs. They're supposed to resemble Pandas via their black and white mask. You can Google for pictures.

[Twisterdog]

I personally can't see a bit of dalmatian or English setter in him.

I see ACD, shepherd, pit and/or lab. The angulation of the back legs definately says shepherd to me, the markings are very much ACD. The head, jaw line and chest could be pit, but I also see some lab in there.

I agree with others, "DNA" tests to determine breed are a total waste of money. One of my customers did that, with her 70 pound, gold colored, long haired, retreiver mix. We were all fairly sure the dog was a golden retriever mix, probably some lab and/or Irish setter in there. The results came back as something ridiculous ... I can't remember for sure now, but I think she was told the dog was something like Boston terrier and border collie. Ummmm .... no.

All dogs have the same DNA. The DNA is what makes a dog a dog, vs. a monkey or a parrot. A breed doesn't have unique DNA, a species does.

[Giselle]

Well, I mean, sure they're all canines, but it is in that same DNA that dictates how narrow their muzzles are, how many dew claws they have, their susceptibility to disease, their ear set, their tail set, their prey drive, their working ethics, etc. I agree that DNA tests are not accurate at this moment in time, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're refined upon in the future and become much more accurate. I agree that DNA tests are a tad too ambitious at this moment in time. I mean, we mapped out the canine genome just a couple years ago. I also think a lot of it depends on the company you're utilizing, too. Who knows!

[BC_MoM]

Those Panda Shepherds look nothing like Pandas! They do, however, look very much like smooth coat Border Collies! lol

[SemaviLady]

This mystery dog is extreme white spotted. So it immediately rules all solid breeds as one of the parents.

He also seems to have flying nun ears, which genetically suggests a mixing of parents with different ear sets. Eg., an up-earred parent, rose ears and one with flop ears or mixed breed parents - resulting in indeterminate ears carriage of the adult.

On ticking...
Ticking is genetically dominant but the manner in which spots are distributed is controlled genetically in a sort of 'plus' vs 'minus' way.

Belton colored (like English Setters) and intensely speckled German Short Hairs are ticked. Because these breeds are pintos you can see the speckles in white areas. Since the trait is dominant, only one parent needs carry it. Collies and Springer spaniels have ticks too, but breeders tend to select for white ruffs around the neck so the appearance is cleaner in most lines. But crossing with another breed can cause offspring to have different ticking traits. (Solid dogs can be ticked too, but since they have no white markings, the ticking is hidden)

The color black is dominant over brown or chocolate. So one parent could have been a chocolate breed that carries belton spotting - so don't rule out a parent that has traits similar to a GSP.

Since the mystery dog is short coated, which is dominant, then either parent could have been long coated.

When doing breed ID based on color and morphology of the dog, it is useful to understand color genetics in the dog. So this analysis rules out several breeds and introduces possible parents that haven't been mentioned yet.

Many mixed breeds are mixes of other mixes, and the genetic QTLs for behavior can be very unpredictable in mixed breeds. So just because one parent is a herding breed and other is a hunting breed, the puppy may have behaviors that clash in a confused way, or have no specialized traits from either parent.

[SemaviLady]

What's a panda shepherd?

The panda shepherd is actually a confirmed new mutation from purebred GSD parents. The 'paternal'/'maternal DNA on the parents of the first panda litter was confirmed and there was no 'whodunit' involved. These dogs are being studied genetically.

[Suki Wingy]

Thanks for all your input. Have you studied genetics at college? I am asking because that is one of the majors I am looking into, along with zoology or ecology.

[SemaviLady]

I thought I'd just let everyone know that I'm saving up (very slowly) for a DNA breed test on him

Okay, yikes. Let me tell you what I KNOW.

It'll be interesting for sure, but don't bet it will be accurate at all. I know several people who are seriously into canine genetics, some submitted samples for the canine genome as well. Some sent blood samples during the 'prototyping' period of the latest breed guessing tests. Results? It got several of the purebreds wrong and introduced breeds into the pedigree of known purebreds -- adding breeds that do not actually exist in the history of those breeds.

It's just a more expensive way of guessing. Since all it will do is tell you if some of the whorls and nicks in the 'fingerprint' resemble some of the other dogs in their very limited database.

Take the hint from the fact that they will not test purebreds nor guarantee that accuracy. Breeders of purebreds could do paternal/maternal DNA tests on a sample as a control, to prove that the parents and pups are pure... then submit those at the same time that a 'breed guessing' test is done. You won't find any serious breeders recommending these tests.

[SemaviLady]

Have you studied genetics at college? I am asking because that is one of the majors I am looking into, along with zoology or ecology.

This is a complicated question.

I did have genetics when I was in high school (overseas) and different kinds of genetics courses when I was in college. But at the time I was taking these genetics courses decades ago, much of genetics was still in a sort of theoretical state because the actual genes were unknown and various species' genomes were yet to be worked out. Mendellian theory, punnett squares, & practical experience gave us theoretical genes that would 'explain' various behaviors we'd see in breeding.

It is only now with the growing technology of "molecular genetics"(as opposed to "classical genetics") that we are now able decode and look more closely into parts of the various (species) genomes. Now it has become possible to attribute a 'dominant' D ('d' is blue in dogs) to a specific part of genetic code in canines.

You will probably learn quite a bit about general genetics in basic college courses, but these don't teach very much at all about the genetics within different species. For example, the genetics of dogs and their coat patterns are different from that found in cats, or goats and zebras for that matter. (Or Mendel's sweet peas. ) Even in the same species... PRA and dwarfism in two different breeds of dogs may actually involve different chromosomes or loci -- which means breeding affected dogs between two different breeds can produce a whole litter of unaffected carriers.

So yes, I did study genetics in school, but now, it's quite a different animal all together.

And it will continue evolve. For example, people attribute certain things to 'genetics' (such as diabetes and heart disease) but this can be a red herring because gene coding behaves little more than like software, like a computer program. If you change the food or other elements of the environment... you change the way some genes are expressed and they in turn, affect other genes within the individual in question.

Good luck with your future choices. You may find some studies/topics come more naturally for you but it may still be difficult to decide the best answer for you. Like some of us, you may take another path because challenge itself has its own rewards.

[Suki Wingy]

Thanks again. I guess I'll have to just settle with never knowing what breeds he is, but that's not too bad.

[shepgirl]

omg...and we're left hanging....I can't stand the suspense...lol

[Laurel Mc]

I have a blue heeler mix and she looks very similar. I am almost sure there is some blue heeler in this one. Mine is more spotted than marled like some blues, its a more uncommon coat. Dalmations are one of the breeds that were crossed to create the blue heeler so that may account for the coat like a dalmation, but this dog has a more stocky body and the shape of the head is much more like a blue, also.

I've never been able to figure out mine either. She's a blue/?