Run Hillary Run- bumper sticker thread

[Daisy and Delilah]

Call me crazy or just plain dumb here. After reading those articles, I see that Canada, at least, is trying to have a definite structured plan. At least Canada is trying to be organized. Around here, all I see are doctors offices with doctors holding their hands out and taking every penny they can get their hands on. Just as fast as they can possibly collect it. I don't see a great deal of followup care or compassion going on either.

As it stands, I'm already waiting forever to get into a specialist if any kind. I'm still trying to figure out how it could get much worse than we already have it in the US. It's normally a glorified cattle drive situation in my area. I always wonder what happened to the older types of doctors. Nobody seems to care anymore and I'm not the only person here that feels like this. It's very widespread.

There's no such thing as good medical care here, as far as I can tell. We have learned to do with what we have. The only thing that medical offices are good at down here is collecting your money in due time. They seem to have great efficiency if funds aren't received immediately Maybe this is just a situation in the state of Florida--I'm not sure but I would love to know if anyone living in the US feels the same way about their area.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm rambling worse than usual. I need sleep

[sparks19]

Try Try Try. Like I said before.... the road to h*ll is paved with good intentions.

perhaps the government here should regulate what and how much Dr's can charge and they should also regulate how much someone can get from a malpractice suit. malpractice hand outs go down.... insurance goes down.... dr's fees go down. Nobody deserves Millions and millions of dollars for a mistake.... unless of course that mistake has cost you something very serious and there is NO doubt that it was caused by that mistake and could not be prevented any other way. But like I said.... I never heard of millions of dollars giving someone their leg back... or their life back. Medical expenses should be enough and missed work time. But these people that sue for millions because they had a cold that turned into bronchitis or because they had a cut that got infected.... ridiculous. Perhaps that is where you should start looking if you want to cut down medical costs.

giving it away for "free" is only going to result in greater debt for the country.... much higher taxes for EVERYONE rich and poor.... and eventually it will get too expensive for even taxes to pay for. Medicine is advancing more and more everyday. to accomodate the new costs like machines, more Dr's, new tests, better lab equipment they are goin to have to either hike taxes more and more and more or start charging again.

You are waiting forever for specialist care now? Imagine how long you will wait when every Tom Dick and Harry is seeking out medical advice for a pimple, or a sniffle, or a bruise. That's what comes with "free" health care.

[Ceph]

I thought I would post my own little thing about healthcare.

First a few numbers = Italy is considered in the top ten of healthcare while the US is only 37 in the WHO ranks....you know what though....thats CRAP.

My grandmother was born, raised, and lives in Italy, and is now in her late eighties. A few years ago she decided it would be a good idea to go running after a guy who stole her purse. She collapsed and was taken into a hospital where they proceeded to put a pacemaker in.....a pacemaker that was promptly turned off when she came to the states to visit us...she didnt need it...and while she now has a get out of jail free card when it comes to airport security, I have no idea why she had to be put through that.

More so than that, the hospitals are in bad conditions - there arent enough doctors because their medical school sucks, and because they arent getting paid enough they dont care as much. There arent enough nurses for the same reason. And they dont have the same health standards there either.

I frequent Europe on a regular basis...and I cant say I am very impressed with these socialized/nationalized systems...I see that those who have the money and means to come to the states do come to see doctors here because they dont trust their own nations healthcare. I know that, with maybe the exception of switzerland (because they are so dang tight and concise and Picky about everything) I would never go to a european hospital....having been in some as an observer I have kind of gotten this frightening perspective.

The problem with malpractice is not only do the doctors loose alot of money...they loose their credibility...and with their credibility goes their jobs....no kind of regulation of price will change that. My Uncle Ben had to stop practicing because some jerk decided he had done something wrong - in court Uncle Ben came out smelling like a rose...but because he was in a malpractice suit period he lost his credibility and his patients...It was a pity...he was one of the top eye docs in DC. My Uncle Max has been a little more shrewed...and thank goodness - he is one of the top eye surgeons at home as well. I hate malpractice (but at the same time I understand it for reasons)....I just cant imagine the number of good doctors who have been hacked off from their proffession because someone wanted a little extra money.

As far as taxing the richer more than the poor....hec, my family is towards the lower middle half of the pay bracket...and I know I for sure will be when I start completley paving my own way after graduation (the goverment pays its service members soooo well(hack ::sarcasm:: cough); and I think everyone should get taxed the same daggone way....the same percentage accross the board. Its fair that way...I dont begrudge those who had more drive then me to do something better or different....who had talents in other sections than I did....whatever....it's stupid to be jealous of those who have more than me...if they want to donate money to some charity...thats cool - but you shouldnt force them to support everyone else.

just my two cents.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

AHHH so we should punish people for being successful? typical. I think THAT is crap. So because my husband and I worked are butts off to get where we are and make the money we do we should be punished for it because some people didn't do the same? We are far from rich but we are also far from poor. Because of that we should have to pay everyone else's way? I despise that way of thinking. Why should people be punished for being successful? You start doing that and people will stop being successful becuase they will end up making more money working minimum wage jobs and then where will we be? Although that seems to be Hillary's line of thinking as well.... as long as you aren't taking her money from her. I just don't get that.... take money from people who earned it just because they worked hard to get where they are. How about this.... instead of socialized medicine how about we just send everyone's medical bills to the rich people and they can pay them. does that sound fair? I truly hope you don't say yes.

Oh, now I understand. Wealthier people work harder for their money. So therefore, they deserve access to a doctor, and insurance for their children. Poor people are just lazier and that's why they don't need to have basic health needs met. But wait- they might have to use public programs like Medicaid to suck all us hardworking, deserving Americans dry. Gosh, I guess you could make the argument that instead of fairly taxing the rich, we should really just tax the poor more to pay for stuff we hard working people need. And we sure could use more money for that war in Iraq.

[Ceph]

Oh, now I understand. Wealthier people work harder for their money. So therefore, they deserve access to a doctor, and insurance for their children. Poor people are just lazier and that's why they don't need to have basic health needs met. But wait- they might have to use public programs like Medicaid to suck all us hardworking, deserving Americans dry. Gosh, I guess you could make the argument that instead of fairly taxing the rich, we should really just tax the poor more to pay for stuff we hard working people need. And we sure could use more money for that war in Iraq.

Why is it fair to tax the wealthy more than the poor? I wish someone would explain that too me....it makes sense in my mind to take the same percentage from everyone...thats fair.

Oh, btw, that money for Iraq partially went to paying those well paid soldiers who are working to protect their nation...those soldiers who are in more liklihood getting less money a year than most people here. But naw, they shouldn't get paid should they...or even better....lets pay them less....its not like they are working all that hard...its not like they are being injured, dying and coming home under the flag. So when you are making statements regarding the poor and then statements about money going into Iraq...do try to remember that a large population of those poor...those who arent paid a whole lot, are being paid by that money going towards Iraq. Or do they not deserve it because they're soldiers?

~Ceph

[wombat2u2004]

""Why is it fair to tax the wealthy more than the poor? I wish someone would explain that too me....it makes sense in my mind to take the same percentage from everyone...thats fair.""

Maybe it has something to do with fair and equitable distribution of money so that most everyone can live some sort of decent lifestyle.
I believe that lower income earners must pay a lower tax percentage than those in the higher income groups....and I believe THAT is fair. It has been written on this thread that wealthy and successful people have worked hard for what they have, well that may be so in some cases, but not in others. Luck and opportunity play a big role in wealth and success. A lot of people work hard and are not successful or wealthy, do they deserve to pay the same rate of tax as those who are obviously overpaid ???? I think not. I believe that everyone deserves some sort of break, because the danger lies in the wealth gap....the wider the gap becomes betweeen the have's and the have nots, the more trouble your country will be in.
Wombat

[Ceph]

That still doesnt sound right to me. lets say everyone is paying....oh say, 40% accross the board. Those that make 2000 a month (averagish for the military) are going to pay less than those who make 10000 a month because that is how percentages work....you're saying those who make 10000 should get charged what? 60%. Because they make a more...again, that doesnt strike me as fair, or right.

Or, we could do something useful like getting rid of the death tax or the marriage penalty....that might help some people out.

~Ceph

[Edwina's Secretary]

That still doesnt sound right to me. lets say everyone is paying....oh say, 40% accross the board. Those that make 2000 a month (averagish for the military) are going to pay less than those who make 10000 a month because that is how percentages work....you're saying those who make 10000 should get charged what? 60%. Because they make a more...again, that doesnt strike me as fair, or right.

Or, we could do something useful like getting rid of the death tax or the marriage penalty....that might help some people out.

~Ceph

Do you know what the so-called death tax is? And who is affected by it? Do you know what the so-called marriage penalty is? When and how it affects people?

Do you have any idea what percent of the population pays a 40% tax rate in the US?

[Ceph]

the numbers were hypothetical...I know out of the 200 I recieve a month for drill pay I only get about half that back between state taxes and federal taxes...I know I had to join the Guard so that I could pay for school...I know we almost lost our house of fifty years when my grandfather died because he had owned it...I know that when my grandmother died my other grandfather could almost lost his house as well because of the taxes.

or maybe I was imagining that....

[Cataholic]

I just cant imagine the number of good doctors who have been hacked off from their proffession because someone wanted a little extra money.

Sorry, Ceph, this one just sets me off. As someone that practices in the area of malpractice, I can tell you first hand- medical malpractice cases are the most expensive to try, and the most difficult to win. Malpractice cases are not just these little things that people pursue because someone wanted a little extra money.

The ONLY case that gets to trial, or even past a motion for summary judgment, is that case in which the person has a significant injury- loss of life, limb, paralysis, permanancy. Anything else, it isn't worth the client OR the attorney's time to pursue.

Malpractice litigation happens because doctors refuse to be like the rest of us, imperfect human beings, capable of minor, major or agregious conduct. When INSURANCE companies stop practicing medicine, we all will be much better off.

Bows to her faithful audience, and steps off the soap box.

[Cataholic]

the numbers were hypothetical...I know out of the 200 I recieve a month for drill pay I only get about half that back between state taxes and federal taxes...I know I had to join the Guard so that I could pay for school...I know we almost lost our house of fifty years when my grandfather died because he had owned it...I know that when my grandmother died my other grandfather could almost lost his house as well because of the taxes.

or maybe I was imagining that....

Are you in the US? This would be contra to most probate situations that I know of. I don't think you were imagining it, but, I am not sure you had all of the information.

The Ohio estate tax is $338,000, and the federal is 1 Mil (or thereabouts). Are you suggesting that your grandfather's estate was greater than those amounts? (I imagine Oh would be similar to other states). Cause only IF your grandparents estate (house, and all other stuff) was more than that, would you (or, actually, the estate pays it, from the assets of the estate).

Just think, I actually charge people for this information. You are getting it for free.
Just curious.

[Ceph]

Oops, sorry, I forgot to mention that I do know there are cases that warrant it, that there are good doctors along with the bad.

lol, I dont know what doctors you meet that are trying to be perfect....none of the docs I know, my uncles included, are perfectionists...they just try to do the best they can, which is usually quite good.

I dont remember the details, I was too young with my Uncle Ben, but what I know from my Dad was that he was tried for something he didnt cause. And as a result he lost his practice. That seems kind of unfair to me. I do understand that there are several malpractice suits that should happen when a doctor does something grossly stupid or neglectful.

Sorry that I came off sounding so snarty there though.

[caseysmom]

I have now gone through probate twice and trust me at least in California there is no death tax.

[Ceph]

There is here in Maryland...Anything that gets inherited gets taxed out the wazoo....I've never lived anywhere but there, but I sort of assumed it was everywhere. Allright...I will bow my head...I was wrong, sorry.

[borzoimom]

We have the death tax in Virginia too- outragious amount of money when my grandfather and grandmother died.. My parents got socked big time!