What Information are "owners" entitled to?

[DrKym]

I was looking through a few threads form this week, some that I responded to and a few I didn't but am watching with interest.

One peice of information in a thread has been niggling at me. In this case the animals are "owned " by a few people, only one is the legal owner though.
The animals and the "owners" all live together. There is some debate on a few points between them, on limits and behaviour. In general and on the whole, they all seem to agree on tolerable things, housebreaking, crate training etc. However there is a disparity on the level of tolerance on biting.

One of the owners was bitten, and made a choice not to tell the other owners, as that owners level of tolerance did not match their own. I am not mentioning names as that is not my intent, but the issue that bothers me is it is the legal owner that is unaware of this behaviour.

The part that niggles at me is this....what happens if this living situation changes? What happens if the legal owner then has custody of an animal that has bitten, this person is unaware of it. If this animal again bites, with a different outcome, this person is not only going to be baffled at the behaviour but put in a very unsavory position, as with this info he would have had choices available to him, i.e. to turn legal ownership over to the other "owner', to work with the animal themself to correct the issue, or very possible in their rights to return the animal.

In my own personal belief, as I have co-owned many animals legally and also without the paperwork, I would be rather upset if that type of information was withheld.

Just my opinion, what are yours??

[areias]

I know what your talking about...and have wondered the same thing. I don't have much time to elaborate, but I think it's a very thin line. On one hand, if the legal owner was not informed, they could be bitten or (mauled-hate to say it). On the other hand, it could have been a one time instance, and if told to the legal owner, the owner might have it PTS. I believe that if a dog bites someone, it should go to a certified canine behavorist, 9 times out of 10.

I think in this particular situation, the person in question should seek outside help from a professional. If it happens again, it should be confessed and the parties should discuss further action.

[critter crazy]

I think all of the "owners" should be informed of the behavior, it is very unwise to hide something like this. This could make for a serious problem later. I would never hide something as serious as a dog bite. That is just wrong, whether skin was broken or not!

[applesmom]

The recent posts are not so much a matter of ownership; but rather a matter of knowingly exposing someone to potential harm.

If someone who shared a household with me knew there was a strong chance their/our dog would bite me or anyone else--they darned sure owe it to me to warn me and discuss possible solutions.

If they believe it was a one time incident and not likely to ever to happen again--that might be another story.

[critter crazy]

If they believe it was a one time incident and not likely to ever to happen again--that might be another story.

not trying to be mean, but asking a honest question.

How would one know, it wouldnt happen again???

[DrKym]

The recent posts are not so much a matter of ownership; but rather a matter of knowingly exposing someone to potential harm.

If someone who shared a household with me knew there was a strong chance their/our dog would bite me or anyone else--they darned sure owe it to me to warn me and discuss possible solutions.

If they believe it was a one time incident and not likely to ever to happen again--that might be another story.

The exposure to harm was also a concern, which is why I personally agree with informing all involved.

If it was a "one time " thing then that should be discussed at the same time.
Only time will tell if it was or wasn't.

I also agree a trainer/behavourist should be contacted and to speak with all involved, and after evaluating the animal give a professional opinion on the likely hood of it recurring, and to offer support and training to help.

[applesmom]

not trying to be mean, but asking a honest question.

How would one know, it wouldnt happen again???

Good question!

I was thinking of a particular incident I had. About three times a week I played with Coffee with the hose; encouraging her to bite at the water as it came out the end. Both of us had a blast playing like that and she got lots of exercise!

One beautiful spring day I got the bright idea to bathe her outside with the hose. The poor dog had no way of knowing my thumb was over the end of the hose to make the water spray. She chomped down on the water as usual and bit right through my thumb.

It was pure accident and lack of forethought on my part. Couldn't hardly hide a bandaged thumb though!

There was another incident with Howdy. Our neighborhood went through a rough time for a few years and we encouraged the dogs to run to the window and bark furiously when we heard strange noises in our yard.

One night my 16 year old granddaughter, Terri was sleeping on the couch and her 18 year old sister Heather was sleeping in the bedroom. In the middle of the night I woke up to hear the chilling sound of Heather screaming "he bit me", followed by huge gulping sobs!

I ran out into the living room terrified and not knowing what to expect. Howdy and Terri had both been sound asleep on the couch and Heather who couldn't sleep had gotten up and reached beside Terri's head to turn the lamp on.

Terri not knowing Heather was up, was startled and woke just enough to tell a "dead to the world" Howdy to "go see".

Sensing a human presence practically on top of Terri he immediately grabbed Heathers arm in his mouth. He instantly recognized her scent and let go before she could even react.

There wasn't a mark on Heather, but from that day forward we knew that the "go see" command was worth it's weight in gold.

Both of those incidents were "bites" that would never happen again"!

[areias]

I also agree a trainer/behavourist should be contacted and to speak with all involved, and after evaluating the animal give a professional opinion on the likely hood of it recurring, and to offer support and training to help.

Thinking more on this...I agree with you, that perhaps a trainer should be contacted NOW, the correct steps and information handy, and then told to the household what has happened.

[BC_MoM]

How would one know, it wouldnt happen again???

That's VERY true. If a dog bites once, it's more than capable of doing it again. Biting is a behaviour that needs to be nipped in the butt ASAP.

[borzoimom]

We were told when we got Femka, that if suddenly startled and felt cornered- she might snap. I have only seen the behavior once- and that was in the first week.. She was asleep near a closet, with her back against the wall. My dogs use to closets, and me not thinking- I said something, then opened the door which opened outwards- putting her between the door and the wall. I guess in her mind- she felt trapped and snapped at me.. ( looked more of a snap to me..but didnt make contact- but her teeth sure went click..).. That was two years ago- .. I am not sure if its that she has settled now- as she is obviously happier- a totally different dog with a 180 degree change- but I will say this-
The fact they told me that could happen- instead of me freaking out that she " turned on me" - I understood what position I had put her in.. For months afterwards- I watched for things like that- and now two years later- I doubt she would.. But we know its there.. She is also MUCH MORE CONFIDENT and actually quite silly.. I am glad they told me this could happen. She already acted terrified the first few weeks..
(** importantant note- if we had small children or many people in the house other than us too, this situation might have had more gravity to us than " Oh you idiot Michelle- that was a stupid move!! Poor Femka..".. **)

[DrKym]

I think you made part of my for me Michelle, the fact is you were allowed to make a choice about Femka, you were informed, and you could decide if you wanted to retain her , or if not you had options open to you.

Glad Femka stayed though, that way when I steal Hottie you wont be to lonely.........

[critter crazy]

We were told when we got Femka, that if suddenly startled and felt cornered- she might snap. I have only seen the behavior once- and that was in the first week.. She was asleep near a closet, with her back against the wall. My dogs use to closets, and me not thinking- I said something, then opened the door which opened outwards- putting her between the door and the wall. I guess in her mind- she felt trapped and snapped at me.. ( looked more of a snap to me..but didnt make contact- but her teeth sure went click..).. That was two years ago- .. I am not sure if its that she has settled now- as she is obviously happier- a totally different dog with a 180 degree change- but I will say this-
The fact they told me that could happen- instead of me freaking out that she " turned on me" - I understood what position I had put her in.. For months afterwards- I watched for things like that- and now two years later- I doubt she would.. But we know its there.. She is also MUCH MORE CONFIDENT and actually quite silly.. I am glad they told me this could happen. She already acted terrified the first few weeks..
(** importantant note- if we had small children or many people in the house other than us too, this situation might have had more gravity to us than " Oh you idiot Michelle- that was a stupid move!! Poor Femka..".. **)

Rocky was the same way, I was not informed however, and was very shocked about his behavior. He felt cornered as well, and snapped at me, he thankfully only left slobber on my arm, but it was quite a shock, but it made perfect sense later. Rocky has not done this since that day, and I am very acreful about putting him in that situation again.
It is best if all parties are told of behavior like this, so certain things can be avoided!

[borzoimom]

Rocky was the same way, I was not informed however, and was very shocked about his behavior. He felt cornered as well, and snapped at me, he thankfully only left slobber on my arm, but it was quite a shock, but it made perfect sense later. Rocky has not done this since that day, and I am very acreful about putting him in that situation again.
It is best if all parties are told of behavior like this, so certain things can be avoided!

PERFECT EXAMPLE and we all know now what a lovely dog he is.. Just like with Femka- the right situation, and training and love- and knowledge to the owner this can happen- we knew.. She stayed with ME FEELING like the stupid one for not paying attention.
BTW critter crazy- Femka was terrified of men for a long time. Now she accepts like she owns the house- full of confidence but not putting her in a corned position for months I am sure made the difference for her to relax and realize- NOTHING was going to happen to her..

[borzoimom]

I think you made part of my for me Michelle, the fact is you were allowed to make a choice about Femka, you were informed, and you could decide if you wanted to retain her , or if not you had options open to you.

Glad Femka stayed though, that way when I steal Hottie you wont be to lonely.........

You and I both know - that although a small dog can give one heck of a bite- it only takes 7 pounds of pressure to break someones arm.. To not give out information especially with a big dog is rather irresponsible to me.
Those people that took that shepherd KNEW that dog was not reliable around children- .. Something that fit with their life style and lived out the full life of the dog- with them!
( and just try to get hottie from me.. rofl.. )

[DrKym]

hehehe Michelle I have other devils at work helping me to steal Hottie..................remember hun I love you, my job is to distract you while he is whisked away along with his vet......

as for the bite issue in where this thread is going, that is part of it, my point with asking all of the PT ppl, wasn't just that though. It is the willful witholding of information, that can make a difference in the dogs or cats life, I truly feel that all ppl responsible for the animal legally or morally are entitled to all information on that animals behaviour. Not just from the legal aspect , and trust me for some you that isn't an issue but for some of us owning certain breeds and having to carry insurance etc, it is, but also for the protection of visitors and passerby.