dangerous game

**lwds** · 11-03-2006, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Argranade

I dunno but for some reason it does not bother me.

A well known GSD handler I know keeps his dogs outdoors and as soon as his puppies are able to, they are outside in a pen. Do I agree with it? 50/50 answer. I wouldn't do it, but it doesn't both me too much.

and then again, his dogs aren't running around being ran over, chasing cars, or being shot.

**sumbirdy** · 11-06-2006, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by cyber-sibes

How do the rest of the dogs stay in the yard? Are they all tied?

One is. But the rest of them just...stay. It's like they don't want out of the yard. They know where dinner and a nice bed is.

**lovingpaws** · 11-07-2006, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by sumbirdy

There is nothing wrong with having outside dogs if they have adequate shelter and plenty of food, water, and attention. Which my dogs have all of these. Our house is way too small to bring in 17 dogs and anyway most of them don't like to be inside. We bring in the dogs that like to be inside on occasions and starting this winter we are bringing in our 9 year old dog (who has lived outside all her life) There is absoulutely nothing wrong with them being outside and if you knew my dogs and their personalities you would understand and agree too. They don't want to be anywhere else.

I hate to see dogs chained or penned, and outside alone. But you have a whole pack or even 2 that share each others company, and yours your say. Since dogs are social animals and in this case have each other, I think you're doing in adequate job

now a fence would be perfect

, and even if they "stay as you say, it will keep out other critters who may cause problems (carry rabies, other disease), and keep your car chaser safe.

**Twisterdog** · 11-07-2006, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by sumbirdy

There is nothing wrong with having outside dogs if they have adequate shelter and plenty of food, water, and attention. Which my dogs have all of these. Our house is way too small to bring in 17 dogs and anyway most of them don't like to be inside. We bring in the dogs that like to be inside on occasions and starting this winter we are bringing in our 9 year old dog (who has lived outside all her life) There is absoulutely nothing wrong with them being outside and if you knew my dogs and their personalities you would understand and agree too. They don't want to be anywhere else.

No, I would not understand. No, I would not agree. If your house is "way too small" for the dogs you own, you have too many dogs, IMO. I once had fourteen dogs when I was doing breed rescue and they were all house dogs.

**sumbirdy** · 11-08-2006, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Twisterdog

No, I would not understand. No, I would not agree. If your house is "way too small" for the dogs you own, you have too many dogs, IMO. I once had fourteen dogs when I was doing breed rescue and they were all house dogs.

I bet you didn't live with your mother who has seizures so the chaos of 17 dogs in the house would kill her. We have a small house but a big yard.

**lwds** · 11-08-2006, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by sumbirdy

I bet you didn't live with your mother who has seizures so the chaos of 17 dogs in the house would kill her. We have a small house but a big yard.

Then I say find a rescue to help you and stop taking in any more dogs. Don't you have a local shelter?

**sumbirdy** · 11-08-2006, 11:33 AM

No there is no local shelter. We are not taking in any more dogs (even though we had to tell my sister-in-law that after she brought home Novie) Mom can't bear to let any of them go and the dogs LIKE TO BE OUTSIDE.

**lwds** · 11-08-2006, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by sumbirdy

No there is no local shelter. We are not taking in any more dogs (even though we had to tell my sister-in-law that after she brought home Novie) Mom can't bear to let any of them go and the dogs LIKE TO BE OUTSIDE.

Do I agree with them being outside 24/7? Hardly, but I'm more concerned for their safety.

**Twisterdog** · 11-08-2006, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by sumbirdy

I bet you didn't live with your mother who has seizures so the chaos of 17 dogs in the house would kill her. We have a small house but a big yard.

No there is no local shelter. We are not taking in any more dogs (even though we had to tell my sister-in-law that after she brought home Novie) Mom can't bear to let any of them go and the dogs LIKE TO BE OUTSIDE.

The fact that your mother has seizures and can't stand the chaos of the dogs in the house makes me only more adamant in my original statement ... if your house is "way too small" for the dogs you own AND your mother can't stand them in the house, you have too many dogs, IMO.

And while it is certainly good that you are not taking in any more dogs, I think there is still a serious problem with the situation as it exists. To be perfectly blunt, someone who has too many dogs for the size of their home, does not allow them in the house, cannot seem to keep them from chasing cars, and "can't bear to let any of them go" is not a rescue, they are well on their way to being a hoarder.

As someone who has been involved in various aspects of shelters, kennels, and rescues for decades, I would strongly urge you to responsibly rehome the vast majority of these dogs and do not take in more. This is not a healthy situation, for the dogs or humans involved. I'm not saying this to hurt your feelings or cause problems, but I seriously see signs of trouble here ... signs that I have sadly seen too many times before, and the ending is rarely if ever pleasant.

**sumbirdy** · 11-10-2006, 01:06 PM

My brother is taking two of the dogs, and when I move out (in about a year) I am taking half of them (and yes they will be inside dogs then or at least inside/outside) There are already 7 dogs that get to come inside and mom said she would let one more in when I move.

**husky_lover** · 11-14-2006, 12:05 PM

I hope you find a solution to your problem with your escapee. I personally think that you are right on the dogs being outside. There is nothing wrong with a dog being outsid 24/7 if it has all the care it needs to be healthy and happy. My two huskies are inside/outside dogs. But we have a dog door and they stay outside on there own will all day. I only see them during playtime, dinner time and bed time. I think its ok to have as many dogs as you can provide love, food, shelter, and exersize for. But that's my opinion.

**sumbirdy** · 11-14-2006, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by husky_lover

I hope you find a solution to your problem with your escapee. I personally think that you are right on the dogs being outside. There is nothing wrong with a dog being outsid 24/7 if it has all the care it needs to be healthy and happy. My two huskies are inside/outside dogs. But we have a dog door and they stay outside on there own will all day. I only see them during playtime, dinner time and bed time. I think its ok to have as many dogs as you can provide love, food, shelter, and exersize for. But that's my opinion.

Thank you. I'm glad someone agrees with me on this. I can provide plenty of love, food, shelter, and excersize and most of my dogs prefer being outside.
I also think that there are too many dogs in shelters that need homes already. I don't need to rehome my dogs. They have a home. And they are happy.

**Foxed** · 11-14-2006, 03:54 PM

On the whole dogs being outside thing.....my mom is a bit of a neat freak. (beyond what is normal & healthy in my opinion) So she makes them stay outside. I don't like it and if I had any say they wouldn't, but I have no say.

So I try to give them the best life I can. I'm outside with them a lot and they're well fed, exercised, and sheltered. So I think as long as you give them the best life you can then they're fine.

**Santo Domingo** · 12-07-2006, 10:18 PM

I'm a vet tech, and frankly I see nothing wrong with this picture. Yes 17 dogs may seem like a lot of dogs, which it is, to someone whos only had 1, 2, or 3 themselves at any one time. I myself only have 1( a Presa Canario), but that is because I've recently moved in with my parents and out of respect to them I don't have more(they have two).

Point being, sumbirdy says they're getting a new fence and was willing to try new types of chains/wires/etc. to keep the chaser in. This is their desicion to have these animals and its their desicion to keep(most of) them outdoors. If they had 73 dogs I'd be concerned and bring up the hoarder issue. The fact is they have 17 WELL taken care of dogs. If I remember correctly human civilization(as far as planned communities) didn't occur until around 5000 bc, well...that gives dogs thousands of years experiance as outdoor packs. I see people who can't take care of 1 or 2 dogs everyday who keep them inside and they still get tick born disease or blood parasites, injured do to keeping a collar on them while in a kennel or crate, and other various(or natural) injuries.

More power to you birdy, if I was still in my house I'd have a handful of presas. I think you've done a good job by keeping these dogs on preventatives, which is more than a LOT of indoor dog owners can say.
My suggestions would be to either build a fence, as you said you would, and/or experiment with some heavy duty ropes/chains/or wire ropes.Please keep us posted on this guy.Also maybe some obediance training or NILIF so he understands YOU are in charge and all of his freedoms and rewards come from you.It may not discourage the drive to chase the cars, but it may give you better control to call him before he starts to bolt.
-Dave

heres a link to a good NILIF guide( Nothing In Life Is Free)
http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

**Santo Domingo** · 12-07-2006, 10:25 PM

Also, if you have time, maybe sit outside(this will take a while) and everytime a car drives by give him some high quality stinky soft treats(something he would never get on a regular basis) to let him know "yea that car looks tempting, but hey these soft treats are darn good!" Eventually he should look to you, or your mother, everytime a car drives by expecting the treat. Again, this will take some time and patience, but if you do it frequent and keep doing it he won't need to chase the car.