Dobermans - Need Info

[Giselle]

Hey all,

My heart will always lie with sighthounds, but I just love the look of "bad rep" breeds like pitties and rotties so it's no surprise that the Doberman happens to be one of my favorite breeds. Although it certainly isn't feasible to add another dog into our household (especially a Doberman at that), I would like to know more about Dobies.

From what I gather, they generally have:
- high drive, unless you acquire a dog from strictly conformation lines
- high protective instincts
- an undeniable need for obedience classes
- a need for an experienced owner (this is what I'm slightly concerned about)
- an intolerance for same-gender households (another concern)

Many of the above points sound like bad points, but I'm just trying to be brutally honest to myself, so if any Dobie owner would like to refute this or add any info, I'm more than happy to listen/learn. Thanks in advance!

[Suki Wingy]

from the few people I've known with dobes, they've all seemed a lot more mellow than that. I did a lot of research on them a while back because I really liked (and still do like) them. I think the Dobe Club of America says as long as you train them and give them all the companionship they need, they are complete sweathearts with anyone. My sister's friend has one and he roams off leash in their yard and comes up to anyone off the street and licks their face! I just love their suspended, springy trot! Some friends a while back had two dobes, both males and they got along wonderfully, but that is just my experience, I've never owned one.

[EastJenn]

Hi there ... first of all, I want to say that I think its WONDERFUL for anyone to consider a Dobie as an addition to their family. They are such incredible dogs. I don't think they get nearly the admiration they deserve.

I think a lot of what you have heard about Dobermans are common misconceptions. My husband grew up with the breed, so he knows far more than I do, but I have had hands on experience with ours, as well as extensive research before we brought him home.

I wouldn't normally consider Dobermans to be overly prey driven ... especially not when compared to sighthounds or other hunting breeds. With that being said, there are some who are, but I think its more of an individual characteristic, rather than a breed specific thing. The same with protective instincts. Many of the Dobermans I have known (ours included) are total mushes. Kiz would let anyone and everyone into our home and only ask for belly rubs in return lol. Our Dane is FAR more protective than I could ever see him being, but of course, he is the one people balk at.

Obedience and owner experience are two things I feel go hand in hand with general big dog ownership. You are going to have to take more care, time, and training with larger dogs than toy breeds, just because of their size and people's perfection of them. Dobermans can have their trying moments, but I have found them to be some of the easiest trainable and eager to please dogs out there.

Finally, I have NO clue where the intolerance for same gender households would have started, but its pretty laughable. Dogs love those who love them, regardless of sex, age, race, whatever. They only know what you give to them, and they give that back threefold.

I hope this helps somewhat. Dobermans are an excellent breed of dog, and while they aren't for everyone, and I certainly wouldn't encourage everyone out there to rush right out and get one, I feel that way about every breed. There is a balance, and a match. If you truely have done your homework and understand their needs, they make wonderful companions and family members

[animal_rescue]

From what I gather, they generally have:
- high drive, unless you acquire a dog from strictly conformation linesI don't think so, sure some are hyper, but usually they are pretty mellow dogs with a major dober whine! They love to run and play, but can be just as comfortable sleeping in the house. I would say 2 hours of play a day would be good for a dobie, but that's if you have a hyper one. My Maggie is just as content to lay on the couch all day, however if I were to encourage play she'd more than likely follow along! She also has her zoomie moments which are just to cute! lol
- high protective instinctsI think even though Dobies were bred as personal guard dogs it all depends on the doberman itself. I wouldn't say a Doberman is as protective as a caucasian but if they saw their owner being harrased I'm sure they would come to their defense! Once a guy walked into our house without permission and Maggie was right there as quiet as a mouse, teeth bared, and watching the guy. Then my mom came in and Maggie stopped showing her teeth but instead went by my niece and didn't leave her side. Other than that I've never heard of Maggie being protective, she will however sometimes patrol the perimeter of the yard, But I rarely see her do that.
- an undeniable need for obedience classesNot true. Maggie, Mandy( my mom's friend's dog), and Jenn's Kizmet haven't gone to an obediance class. We've trained them ourselves and they are all fine dogs. While obediance class can be a good thing for socialization, it isn't needed if you know what your doing.
- a need for an experienced owner (this is what I'm slightly concerned about)If you are an experienced dog owner that's a plus. They need a firm hand(not actually a hand, Dobermans can be very sensitive).
- an intolerance for same-gender households (another concern)I'm not to sure about that. Maggie has lived with plenty of females in this house and she has not had a problem with any of them. Mandy however did go after Maggie a couple of times, but it was more of a dominance thing than anything else. That's why Mandy was placed in a home with no other dogs.

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

Never put a male Dobe with another male in the same house! Females generally tend to get along just fine though, just aslong as you don't have two dominant females. They're very, very guardy and protective. Much moreso than any Rottweiler I've ever had. Dobermans are always ready for action! Show Dobes aren't as high drive as working Dobes, but they're not low drive either. Sort of inbetween. They do need an owner who will be able to set the rules straight from the beginning and show them who's boss, as with most dogs. They thrive on obedience and love to learn new things. They're an extremely intelligent breed (a little stubborn too though). I reccomend obedience classes for all dogs, no matter what breed as they do need tons of socializing. Some people don't take their Dobes to obedience classes and are lucky that they do well in public around other dogs and people but more often than not, that isn't the case. They also have a Dober whine...which can get quite annoying but they don't whine all of the time, mostly just when they're anxious or excited. They do need exercise and really enjoy running around but they are quite content just to sleep the day away most of the time also, obviously with young Dobes this won't always be the case. Every Doberman I know plays what I and a friend of mine who breeds Dobes called "the stare game"...lol. Basically, when Dobes are around other Dobes they'll be running around having a great time, suddenly stop and stare at eachother. They then, hoepfully without any of the others noticing, stalk the others and whoever moves first gets pounced on. They try this with other breeds too, but it doesn't work too well as other breeds don't understand the game...lol. They also have a Dober grin. When they're happy, excited, etc. They're curl their lips like they're snarling, but they really aren't. Not all Dobes do this, but tons do. That's all I can think of at the moment, but if you have any other specific questions I'll try to answer them

[EastJenn]

Never put a male Dobe with another male in the same house! Females generally tend to get along just fine though, just aslong as you don't have two dominant females.

I have really never had a problem with this, but would be interested to hear from others as well. Our male Dobie lives with two other male dogs at the moment and has had no issues. He hasn't ever shown distaste to males outside of our home either. I attribute that in part to the fact that he simply knows better, that fighting is not tolerated, and part to the fact that he comes from very even tempered lines.

I suppose there are Dobermans who work differently, but again I think that would be a dog specific, not breed specific thing. I've seen gender agression in anything from Pomeranians to GSDs. Thoughts?

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

I have really never had a problem with this, but would be interested to hear from others as well. Our male Dobie lives with two other male dogs at the moment and has had no issues. He hasn't ever shown distaste to males outside of our home either. I attribute that in part to the fact that he simply knows better, that fighting is not tolerated, and part to the fact that he comes from very even tempered lines.

I suppose there are Dobermans who work differently, but again I think that would be a dog specific, not breed specific thing. I've seen gender agression in anything from Pomeranians to GSDs. Thoughts?

My friend who has been breeding for roughly 30 years said never to have two or more males in the same house. Yes, it can work as it is in your case but that's not usually how it is. Sometimes the dogs will get a long for years and all of a sudden, they'll fight over something and it'll never be the same again. it's just not a risk you should take. I'm glad it's working for you though. What breeds are your other dogs though? Dobes will get along with many herding & sporting breeds a lot of times, but usually never with other working breeds or terriers. I'm just speaking from experience and what I've been told though. It's just not a risk I'd ever take.

[EastJenn]

The other two males are a terrier mix (large, about 65lbs) and a Saint Bernard. Our female is a Dane.

Our breeder used to have two males, but one of hers passed away last year. They were always amicable towards each other. I am wondering, if you can never keep two males in the same household, wouldn't having a show kennel be difficult? I suppose you could seperate them ALL the time, but that doesn't seem like any way to raise dogs. JMO.

[wolfsoul]

From my own experience, dobes tend to go to extremes on both sides.

There are the working dobes wihich I prefer -- I have yet to meet one, but Visa's breeder used to breed them (well, they were show/working) and she said she hasn't come across dogs like these since they stopped breeding them. They were smart, high energy, high drive, aggressive, wonderful guard dogs, very protective and great working dogs. They needed to be careful in same-sex households. They had the drive for schutzhund, ring sport, etc. When they were breeding these they of course came across quite a few dobes like these.

Since her dobe breeding days however, she hasn't met any dobes like this -- now it's just the oppisite. We sometimes get dobies in at work, and they are shy, sensitive, submissive, not good guard dogs, with low drive and not alot of working ability. They are playful and goofy rather than strong and alert. These dogs do fine in same-sex households.

So it seems to me that dobies have their extremeties. I think that alot of breeders are ruining the breed, as the only ones I've met have had terrible temperments. I'd like to see more breeders breeding the smart, driven, able to work dogs. Visa's breeder did show the dogs, but they worked as well. She said though that dobies act more aggressive than they really are. She did schutzhund with both dobies and belgians and says the difference between a dobe and a belgian is that if an offender punches the dog in the nose, a dobe will run off whimpering, and it would just piss a Belgian off LOL.

[Giselle]

Never put a male Dobe with another male in the same house! Females generally tend to get along just fine though, just aslong as you don't have two dominant females.

That's the information that I always received. There was a thread on another board about whether a prospective owner should get a male or female Dobe puppy when the OP already had both sexes, and it was suggested that the OP get a female Dobe because male Dobes are highly intolerant of other males. My original plan was to get a female, anyways, because Lucky is too dominant and Giselle happens to be very very submissive. I won't be getting a Dobe anytime soon, though. This thread is purely for educational purposes

The information I'm getting right now is pretty reassuring. I know I don't have enough comprehensive knowledge about Dobes to successfully train the dog myself (different breeds have different quirks), so obedience classes are a given. I've attended them with Giselle so that isn't an issue.

I do visit DPCA's website every now and then and have memorized their article about the Doberman temperament in modern times and it seems as if it's been a national effort to mellow down the Dobe's temperament. From the info in this thread, it seems like it's working Now don't get me wrong, I'm not getting a Dobe solely for protection purposes, but part of what attracts me to this breed is their guarding abilities. I love big dogs, and I also like knowing that my dog could serve as an effective guard dog should the occassion ever arise. I love Giselle, but, let's face it, Greys are wimps! My question now is: Do Dobermans from conformation lines still retain a strong protective instinct or has it more or less been bred out/suppressed?

I'm still not sure if I would want a dog from show or working lines. I'd most likely get an older Dobe from a show home, but I do like the drives in performance dogs although I highly doubt I can keep up with them. Thanks for the all the info everybody!

[animal_rescue]

I just talked to my mentor and she told me that the whole male on male thing is very controversial and that there really isn't a right answer to it.

a quote from her is

A male Doberman with another male dog is all dependent on that individual dog.

[Katy_M216]

Hi! I'm a brand new member here, but I thought I'd pop in and share my experiences.

Last May we lost our Doberboy to Cardiomyopathy. We got him as a 9 week old pup from a very small local breeder who cared about her dogs VERY much (my motto on buying from breeders is that If I wouldn't want my own dogs living with them, then they don't get my money. She passed by my standards). As a younger dog (up 'till about 18mo), he was VERY VERY tough to have. Exceptionally high-energy, and too smart for his own good. Two hour-long running and fetching sessions per-day with numerous play sessions in between hardly kept him mellow enough to keep us from loosing our minds. He ate three couches. One quickly (when my Mom needed to go out for groceries and "didn't have the heart" to crate him), and two others slowly over the course of about 6 months. Every table leg, chair arm, and coffee table (wooden) corner was chewed up. He took about a year to be fully housebroken.

But despite all of that, he WAS the "mush" dog so many people know Dobermans as. He had a mysterious way of making even the most dog-phobic people loyal fans of his.

He was dog aggressive. Eh, well, I don't know if that's the right word for it. He never attacked another dog...When he saw one, he'd jump up in down in place and whine and bark, and snap when they got close enough. He was attacked by a Golden when he was about 20 weeks old (no big injuries - just psychological trauma), and he had been very defensive with them from then on. When given time he came to love all dogs, though.

He lived with another male dog, who was unaltered (my senior English Toy Spaniel, who is now retired from the show ring). He was never bad with him. The only time we had any trouble at all was when Storm'd inhale his food, and wander on over to Bogart's dish. Sometimes they'd have little stare-downs, and sometimes they'd growl a tiny bit. When that happened we'd just seperate them, and after dinnertime they'd be fine again.

Personally, I had FAR more trouble having two female dogs. We had a Shepherd girl (who has since passed away) with our Dachshund / Chihuahua mix, and they had many issues. Neither dog was dog-aggressive outside of the house. They couldn't be fed in the same room, and the Shepherd would snap whenever the Doxie / Chi would come near, so seperation became mandatory.

I think overall, opposite-sex pairs tend to be more peaceful, but same-sex dogs can get along in the same house, too. I know several people with even same-sex dogs of notoriously dog-aggressive breeds (pit bulls, bull terriers, etc) who haven't had any problems. It just takes some work.

[Giselle]

Thanks for all the information, again, guys

Well here's a little fresh info about the male-gender issue:

Males also tend to more dog aggressive toward other male dogs, even when neutered. "You don't ever put two males together, ever, ever, ever. It would be like raising two stallions. Sooner or later, one is going to tangle with the other," says Doniere, who admits male-male pairings have worked in a few isolated cases, but no pet owner should take the chance. "If you want two dogs, a male and female are the best combination," she says.

-DogFancy July 2006

Of course, I dislike DogFancy and I think 90% of the stuff they spew is half junk/bunk, but I have to agree with them here

I keep mulling over the idea of adding a female Dobe into my household and I'm REALLY warming up to the idea now I just adore the look of a cropped Dobe *sighs*

[animal_rescue]

Sorry but my dobie friends and I were EXTREMELY upset over the Doberman Issue of DogFancy. They wrote like they were killers. Ugh it truly upset me.

[.sarah]

Sorry but my dobie friends and I were EXTREMELY upset over the Doberman Issue of DogFancy. They wrote like they were killers. Ugh it truly upset me.

The "to crop or not to crop" section really pissed me off, especially the quote "The Doberman is a cropped and docked breed. If you don't like it, get a Coonhound." How ignorant