Spay/Neuter... Later??

[Jessika]

I'd always heard to spay around six months or before a female's first heat.

But then I read this article the groomer put up in the breakroom and you know it really kind of makes sense to me.

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

Grant it, so long as you're a RESPONSIBLE owner, it shouldn't be a problem for a year or so until you get them fixed. Then again for every responsible owner there are 50 irresponsible ones...

[Scooby4]

My opinion is that you should fix the animal AFTER the first heat or first litter. (First litter ONLY if intentional for breeding). The 6 months rule should correlate with the first heat anyways. For male dogs fixing should be done after the testicles have "dropped".
I say this from experience. My cat got "fixed" at around 3 months. It was the BIGGEST mistake! Her mentality is a little "immature" and never seemed to become a full adult. She is over 10 years old! Her physical status has been the worse effect. Everyone has commented that she is a "fat cat". However, she is NOT fat in any shape or form. Her "breasts" fell down and it is a lump of droopy skin! A fat cat's skin is taught well hers is extremely loose.
I've noticed other animals that have gotten fixed too early and they have "maturity" issues. That's just my opinion. My next time getting my animals fixed I will wait. I am just NOT comfortable with the trend of fixing animals early. I do see the point of it. There are too many unfixed animals without responsible owners. This provides a "protection" from encouraging more unwanted animals from neglectful owners.
Talk to a few vets and decide what is best for your animal. This is just MY Opinion. Please make your own. ;)

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

I have heard that extra large breed male dogs should be neutered at 18 months. When you buy from a breeder though -- you HAVE to follow the contract. :)

[Jessika]

Her "breasts" fell down and it is a lump of droopy skin! A fat cat's skin is taught well hers is extremely loose.

Every one of our cats who were spayed as young kittens at the shelter before we adopted them (in most cases, earlier than three months) all have this exact problem. I knew it had something to do with being fixed because EVERY CAT we've had fixed that young has this problem.

What about male cats, though? I don't want Double-Oh to start spraying... and getting him fixed will help stop the behavior, but if you get him neutered before he starts spraying he doesn't "lose" the ability to spray but he's never done it before to know he can do it. O_o If that makes any sense. lmao

[BC_MoM]

I noticed it said "canine athlete" several times in that article, including in the title. "Early Spay/Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete".

Canine ATHLETES differ a lot from ones that are family pets, regardless of it's breed.

I think a dog should be spayed/neutered ASAP after it's first heat cycle; only because the cycle itself is natural for the dog. I would also say that I think every dog should have at least one litter because it is natural, but I know that would be a devastation and I know better because of all the irresponsible people on this Earth.

Molly's getting spayed on Monday and is approx. 6 1/2 months old but hasn't reached a heat cycle yet, so could she be younger than 6 1/2 months?

[Jessika]

I know the article was written with canine athletes in mind, but the article also states "particularly for the canine athlete" meaning including (and stressed for), but not limited to, canine athletes. ;)

EDIT: There's a very good chance she IS 6 1/2 months and just hasn't had her first heat yet. Jamie was 11 months before she got her's :)

[lv4dogs]

Thats an interesting article, one that makes a lot of sense.

I've always been a fan of spaying/neutering at an older (between 6 months to 2 years of age) *IF* you are responsible AND are having no behavioral issues.


Jessika, I understand what you are saying about male cats. Thats a tough call, just like male dogs though. Male dogs can continue to mark if they have already learned the behavior too. Do you want to neuter them late & take the chance that they may start to mark (or spray when relating to cats) or just get it done early so you have less of a chance to deal with the problem? I think thats a personal choice, if you want to risk it or not.

I went through a lot of worrying with Tiki about that issue. I wanted to wait until he was between 6-9 months of age but I did NOT want him spraying. I couldn't keep him inside for the life of me so luckily that made up my mind for me. I didn't want any stray cats to get pregnant. I got him fixed when he was right around 5.5 months or so.

BTW, I have also noticed the saggyness associated with female cats that are spayed at a real early age.


BCMom, there is a good chance she just hasn't had her heat yet, not all dogs have them at the exact same age. A dog her size usually (but not always) has their first between the ages of 6-9 months of age. Just like with people the age is not always the same for each person.

[.sarah]

Sue - Kaige isn't neutered right? Have you had problems with him marking?

In general aren't larger dogs supposed to start marking around 12-18 months? I hope to neuter Buck around then, but I have to avoid marking because I'm getting ready to plant two gardens in my backyard! :(

[lv4dogs]

Sue - Kaige isn't neutered right? Have you had problems with him marking?

In general aren't larger dogs supposed to start marking around 12-18 months? I hope to neuter Buck around then, but I have to avoid marking because I'm getting ready to plant two gardens in my backyard! :(


You are correct, Kaige is still in-tact. He has not had one single behavioral issue associated with being in-tact, as of yet. ~~knocks on wood~~

He does not mark at all. He will stop ALL the time to smell where other dogs go but hasn't once pee'd where they pee or the like. He has also never lifted his leg yet either. And he's 9 months old, well in a few days he will be anyways.


I have always heard that males start marking when they hit puberty, no matter what breed or size, which is usually between 4-9 months or so. Like you said though, it's generally speaking. I'll have to do some further re-search on it & see what I find.

In my personal experience I usually see male dogs starting to mark around 6-12 months of age.
I also personally think that a lot of it has to do with what the dogs overall behavior is like, what they are exposed to & how they are trained. Like for ex. a more laid back, friendly dog tends to mark later on in life if at all, one who is laid back BUT is exposed to other dogs marking may pick up on the habit a little sooner. A more aggressive dog or one who has to compete over food, shelter, attention, toys etc... usually starts to mark earlier, even if they are lower ranking in the pack. Some shy/reserved dogs may start marking earlier & some may start later, it really depends on why they are shy to begin with. Like with Raustyk (yes she's a girl but she marks like crazy) is shy because she was abused, she was already lifting her leg & marking when I first got her at 6 months of age. My friends dog who is shy because he just isn't socialized that often (a 4 year old in tact male :rolleyes:) and he hasn't marked a day in his life & has also never lifted his leg.

[Suki Wingy]

Hmmm, I have always been a fan of really early neuters and spays before the first heat, but that article does make sence. I was thinking that was you would stop the the dog from maturing sexually. Dog knows we don't need any more pet dogs in this world, so I'm still for early alterings from shelters. Now that I've seen both sides though, I'd say that if you are RESPONSIBLE you should do it whenever you want to have it done. I can see why it would be really better to wait for a while for the working dog.

[Jessika]

Yeah you know it kind of makes you re-think everything!

[.sarah]

Thanks for the info Sue. I'll just have to watch his behavior and snip him when I think marking may start soon. Hopefully he will make it to a year, that is the age I'd really like to neuter him at. *crosses fingers*

[KYS]

Females:
Spaying before the 1st heat reduces the chance to zero of developing mammary cancer.
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=584

males:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=574

My personal preference is to spay a female dog before their 1st heat.
(spay 6-7 months of age)

No opinion on males accept to make sure they do not in pregnant
other dogs or if a behavior problem neuter before all the
harmons kick in.

[Scooby4]

Yes, fixing your animal BEFORE it's first heat may reduce the chances of getting many different types of diseases. However, those diseases may be treatable in the short term. Fixing the animal later falls more into the "long term" care of an animal.
Fixing an animal later, allows them to experience some "sexual maturity". The horomone changes and bodily characteristics that come from this "change" are more important in my eyes. It allows the animal to mature properly and get rid of some of their "bad habits".
For example: What if you were "fixed" at age 13. A woman who never got a period or a boy who never got "stimulated" (Sorry folks :o ). Would your maturity level change who you are today? A woman never developing breasts and boy's voices NOT change?
That essentially is what is happening to our animals when we don't allow them to formally go through "Puberty". They may never get "breast cancer" but are they ever going to mature, calm, cool and collective? What would you rather have?
Ps. All my animals are fixed. One too early, the dogs just right, and the ferret already done. The one too early still has issues to this day 15 years later.

[KYS]

I have never had a female
dog with behavior issues for spaying before the 1st heat and
neither has anybody else I know that can tie it in
to spaying. (the old protocol use to be wait till after the 1st heat)

So I will stick with the opinions of the most current protocol on vet studies on spaying until I hear different. :)

[BitsyNaceyDog]

A lot of things effect the growth process, the sex hormones are only a small part. I'd rather neuter my dog and cats young to prevent both behavioral problems, medical problems when they're older, and the possibility of unwanted puppies (there is always a possibility with an unaltered pet, even when the owner is being as careful as can be).



Fixing an animal later, allows them to experience some "sexual maturity". The horomone changes and bodily characteristics that come from this "change" are more important in my eyes. It allows the animal to mature properly and get rid of some of their "bad habits".I've seen the exact opposite with my animals. All of mine were spayed or neutered early with the exception of Charlie. (I got him neutered 4 days after I got him though.)

Charlie is a major marker. I can't take him anywhere because he marks on everything. It took awhile for me to be able to trust him in the house. I kept him tied to me or crated until I could trust him. We've never had any problems with any of the others.

Charlie can also be a bit nippy. I have to muzzle him to clip his toenails. He was a lot worse when we got him though, now he's not too bad. All the others are fine, they've never nipped at anyone.



My cats have all been spayed/neutered young too. I've had no problems with any of them. As for the sagging females I think it has to do with more the cats genetic make-up. Raisin is saggy, but she is a maine coon mix, she's a big cat by nature. Sundae on the other hand is a petite cat and she doesn't sag, she's just a small girl. As for my boys, Oliver is 12 lbs and looks perfect, he's a pretty average sized cat. Kit is a very lean, slick cat. Jimmy is my monster of a boy, he's a 17 lb. orange tabby. He's not overweight by any means, he's just a naturally large cat and he too sags.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

My vet recommended that Brody and Tobey were both "fixed" at 6 months. Had no cause to doubt him (he treated my RB Cally for free towards the end of her life and was as tearful as me the day I lost her) and neither of them have had any adverse reactions

[gemini9961]

Both of my girls were spayed before their first heat and no problems there. Grant however was neutered at the shelter. He was about 1.5 years old when we got him. He still acts like a big puppy and has some bad habits of marking. Now is that because of the neutering or his breed or his life before we got him?? I will probably always spay before the first heat so as to avoid any accidental pregnancies and/or health problems. All of the pets we have had (cats and dogs) have always been fixed early and we have had no problems. This is just my personal experience and I am sure it is not the same for everyone.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

That article was based on only a few studies done well over 10 years ago, which doesn't really seem very convincing to me.

I haven't had any problems with my dogs "sagging" and they were both spayed at 3 months of age. However, this is merely anecdotal evidence- but in my opinion sagging has to do with the competency of the vet- my pets' vet is a very good surgeon and the incision was very small and healed quite quickly. In fact, the younger the patient, the faster it typically takes for them to heal. I think pets should be spayed/neutered before or around 6 months.

[dragondawg]

If you have a large breed dog, and all you care about is how well it's going to perform as a canine athletic then maybe the point made about the bone structure would cause one to never spay the dog. I say maybe because the article is full of inaccuracies and should not be used by the common dog owner as a guide to spaying. Maybe because they left out an article originally published in 1975 that indicated low estrogen level was associated with hip dysplasia, and measurements could be made as early as 8 weeks as a predictor as to which pups where most likely to develop joint problems. Long before the issue of spaying occurs.

A female dog spayed before her first heat has close to a 0.5% change of mammary cancer. It's almost unheard of in spayed females. A female dog allowed to go into its first heat has a 7-8% of developing mammary cancer later in life. After the 2nd and subsequent heats, and/or pregnancy then the odds are 25%, and do not increase further. In fact mammary cancer accounts for 25-50% of the cancers found for intact dogs.

Although the statement that 50% are benign is true, the statement:

those that are malignant don't metastasize very often, particularly in these days when there is early identification and removal of lumps found on our dogs

is irresponsible! Approximately 50% to 75% of malignant mammary tumors will kill the dog by recurrence through metastasis within one to two years.

Neither does the statement:

bone cancer...a cancer that is much more life-threatening than mammary cancer, and which affects both genders

make much sense. Osteosarcoma has a lower incidence than mammary cancer. And once a cancer has undergone metastasis it matters not whether it's mammary or osteosarcoma- in either case it will be life threatening. Also note a dog owner is more likely to note a limping dog and get medical attention for it (i.e. amputation before metastasis is usually a cure for Osteosarcoma), than to by chance alone find a small cancerous lump, and wonder how long it has been there.

It really does come down to whether or not you wish to minimize the chances your female dog will get mammary cancer?

In general for small breed dogs they are going to have their first heat sooner than the larger breed dogs. Thus 5 months is usually the target age. For larger breeds 6 months and certainly no later than 9 months which is pushing it. Per incontinence that could be a problem if you had your dog spayed very early (e.g. 3 months- which my Vet suggested and I ignored because of this reason). But once it nears the time of its first heat the surrounding tissue and structure is developed enough to maintain good muscle control on the urethra.

Both of my female dogs 80 lbs spayed at 9 months, and 74 lbs spayed at 6 months was/is active, without bone, or incontinence problems. In fact the one I have now runs like a deer. Needless to say the incidence of mammary cancer has been zero percent. Does spaying cause snoring? ;)

Hint: A dog does not have to experience a heat in order to enjoy its life. My first female dog had a joy for life I had not seen before or since in dogs or people. Neither did she had any bad habits. That's right- the perfect dog. Something my second female has evened the score on. :eek: