I need a hug so bad...

[slleipnir]

I feel like a piece of me has been crushed....I feel so crappy it's not funny.

I posted before about Josie and how she is getting along with that other dog. She was doing good, then stupid me said I'd do see my old trainer. He said he would teach me stuff about positive (I said no dogs, no pinch!)

I get there...he tells me a lot of useful things. Then he wants to show me a rottie being aggressive. (teaches it to be aggressive for personal protection?) anyway...I knew Josie would be ok if the dog stayed away...but what does he do? He walks it RIGHT by Josie....This huge rottie. So obviously she flippes...she even shows her teeth! It really scared me. Then after she does this, Duke takes the dog over to set it up for the "demo" I was like...Um..I don't think I want ot see it. It will upset Josie more. He's like yeah you're right. Some other time.

I told him how I was so worried she'd bite someone....you won't believe what he said next! "I can find out for you. I can aggitate her and see if she will bite me" I nearly died! I couldn't believe it. I said no way, how would that help? he said it wouldn't.

Jeez. So I e-mail one of the ladies who was helping me this other way with Josie. She said I basically undid everything we worked on. Go me. She said I should read this dog agreement thing and that I'm basically walking down a path in which Josie is going to be taken from me and PTS. I started balling when I read that.

I can't handle this. She means everything to me and if she accidently bites someone then I will kill myself. I see no point to live without her. I know she will die someday...but the only way I can deal with it is if it's natural from old age. I'm sorry to sound so stupid and "Oh I feel sorry for myself" but I can't handle it. Dad keeps saying I'm over reacting, she's just a dog. He says I act like she is my human baby. He said I can't say that cause I've never had a child to compare it. I don't care. Not the point. I can't help loving her like I do, even if it's not natural to love a dog so much.

I'm always worried about her...and I just felt like a piece of me crumpled. I don't know what to do anymore. Nothing I do works. She is unhappy cause I can't run her like I should. I walk her late at night so I see no one. And she only runs off leash if it's fenced in, no dogs/people. So it's not often. I'm not ment to be a dog owner, and I'm definetly not fit to take care of Josie properly....

Sorry for whining. I need to vent. I'm just so sad right now...

[caseysmom]

First of all big hugs to you. Secondly I am a 44 year old woman with 2 children and I feel the same way about my dogs. Maybe you should just keep Josie away from people if your worried about her biting.

[slleipnir]

It's not just people. It's dogs. I don't think she would bite a person, I think she is afraid of them...but she is mean to dogs...

[caseysmom]

Well maybe you should isolate her from other dogs and I can't imagine them putting her to sleep because she bites another dog, not unless it was very serious or happened many times.

[luvofallhorses]

:eek: no offense but that guy sounds like a jerk. :o seeing if she'll be aggressive? wth?! I really hope everything works out for you and Josie. You both will be in my thoughts and prayers. (((((hugs)))))

[slleipnir]

He says running from the problem won't solve it. He says I need to have her around as many dogs as I can and train her to listen to me, and not pay attention to the other dogs....

And I do isolate her from other dogs now...that is why I walk her late at night...The other method I'm working on is slowing showing her dogs are nice. Starting with dogs she likes..smaller dogs, or submissive dogs. Then showing her it's fun and happy....and hopefully moving up to bigger dogs..

[Karen]

Big hugs to you.

Growls to the stupid man.

You love Josie and she loves you. Maybe the thing to do is, if you are going to be in situations that you worry about her maybe reacting badly to people, either leave her home, or keep her on a tight leash and right attached to you, so she can feel secure that you and she are together, and she is safe.

I don't think you necessarily, in one day, undid all the hard work you've put in, that doesn't make sense. You may have taken a tiny step back, but you can step foward again, together, I know you can.

Josie is a beautiful girl, but maybe she is what people call a "one-person dog." Nothing wrong with that if you and everyone knows that.

Uncle Jake's Kai (Short for Kaiser) was a one-person dog, who did allow my aunt and cousin to be around them, and he acknowledged that they were okay, too, but he was REALLY Uncle Jake's dog. I never saw Kai, as I was a little kid, and whenever I (who had more dog-loving than good sense) was going to visit, Kai went to the basement until I was gone. We were all safer that way, though I'm sure Dad got tired of explaining "Yes, Karen, that is Kai you hear barking (just once when we got there each time) and no, you cannot go pet him."

[Glacier]

Ok, first you aren't a bad owner. A bad owner wouldn't recognize that Josie has special needs and would let her run around doing whatever she wants.

Dog aggression and human aggression are two entirely separate issues. Dog aggression can be managed safely and the dog can live a happy life. Human aggression is a whole different ball game. I have an extremely dog aggressive dog here. Kayleigh lives a protected, but happy life with 22 other dogs.

You are most likely to get bit by a dog aggressive dog when breaking up a fight. So learn how to do that safely. Kayleigh has a bite history--twice she nailed my hubby, both times before we really knew how to break up a fight safely. Since we figured that out, no bites from any of the dogs. We have also learned how to manage Kayleigh better! Kayleigh is a big mushpot with people. She loves even little kids. Given the chance, she'd rip most other dogs to shreds.

It's my job not to give her that chance and still keep her happy--That's your job with Josie. To protect her from herself! I keep Kayleigh away from my own dogs. She can see them and interact to some degree through the fence, but her fence is reinforced repeatedly to prevent escapes and fence fights. I make a special effort to ensure she gets extra human interaction since she misses out on the pack dynamic. I do the same things you do with her exercise--I walk her in the dark, in isolated areas, where she's unlikely to see other dogs. Kayleigh has improved a bit so I can walk her at times closer to home. I still wouldn't take her out on a Sunday afternoon, but on a Monday morning, sure! On-leash at all times of course, unless we are miles from nowhere! Where I live, Kayleigh can be declared dangerous if she attacks another dog and is off my property. If that happens, I've failed her. She can not control her instincts, crappy breeding and even worse puppyhood. I can.

Personally, I think your trainer is way off base. Dog aggression can be managed. I don't believe it can always be cured and intentionally aggravating a dog to the point it might bite is abusive!

As for how you feel about her, I think most people who post on boards like this love their dogs like kids, but your life has meaning beyond them too. There's no way to guarentee that any dog will live a long life and die a natural death in old age. I had a healthy, happy, well-adjusted dog go from that to gone in a matter of hours. Stuff happens, lousy, rotten stuff along with all the great stuff. Enjoy her while she's here, regardless of how long that may be. Don't focus on loosing her someday, that just takes away from your enjoyment of her while she's here.

Good luck with her. She's lucky to have an owner willing to work with her issues.

[dukedogsmom]

That man is a complete idiot! I feel horrible for any of the animals he comes in contact with. He shouldn't be allowed to have any animals. But, you didn't know that when you took Josie there. I don't believe you undid everything either. I have no kids. Duke is my kid and I love him like you love Josie. None of our dogs are "just a dog". I feel bad for yiur dad because he doesn't know how special dogs are. Big hugs coming your way and Duke sends tailwags.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

I'm sorry you feel so bad, I can understand why you're upset. But, you do have a trainer, and from the sounds of it your new trainer (not the guy) is helping Josie, right? I think Josie can learn to curb her aggression, and you are a good dog owner if you are willing to spend the time to train Josie. Maybe she will never like other dogs, but maybe she can learn to tolerate them.
I really hope this can be worked out and you feel better soon. Good luck!

[BitsyNaceyDog]

As for how you feel about her, I think most people who post on boards like this love their dogs like kids, but your life has meaning beyond them too. There's no way to guarentee that any dog will live a long life and die a natural death in old age. I had a healthy, happy, well-adjusted dog go from that to gone in a matter of hours. Stuff happens, lousy, rotten stuff along with all the great stuff. Enjoy her while she's here, regardless of how long that may be. Don't focus on loosing her someday, that just takes away from your enjoyment of her while she's here.
I agree, and I think Audrey understands that. The way I see it is that she hopes that Josie will live a long life and pass away when she is an old dog. Audrey wants to have all the years she can with Josie. I'm sure she understands that unfortunate things can happen. She just can't imagine having her baby PTS over a behavioral problem.

Audrey, How is Josie with Zeke? Have they ever met each other? (If I remember Zeke lives with your mom, and Josie with your dad. Is that right?) I don't really have any advise, just don't give up on your girl. You are a great owner to Josie. You're doing what you can to help understand her needs. It's not the end of the world if you have to keep her away from other dogs. Has she ever shown agression towards a person? If not I wouldn't worry about that.
I know this might sound silly, but what about trying a pet psychic? My friend has a pet monkey (yes a monkey!). She's had the monkey, Abby, now for 20 years. Abby went blind a couple years ago and refused to eat on her own. My friend was having to force feed her. She went to see a pet psychic and within minutes the psychic had Abby eating on her own again. Honestly this is something I am totally skeptical about, but it did work for my friend. If I'm not mistaken others here on PT have had good experiences with them too. I think Kimmy used one with Kia?

Good Luck, Audrey ((hugs))

[cyber-sibes]

((((((((((( hugs )))))))))))
It's hard not to react when people are telling you that you are a failure and your going to loose someone you love very much. Of course you're upset, anyone would be. But people here have given you good advice. I especially like what Glacier had to say. If anyone knows about handling dog issues, it's her! I agree that Josie is very lucky to have you, and it should be possible for you to arrange her contact so everyone stays safe. Every trainer has their own way of working with dogs, maybe there's someone else who can be more helpful out there. Josie needs your love as much as you need hers.
I think I know what you mean by loving a dog more than is natural, I felt like that about my Rosie. I just couldn't get enough of her, I wanted her with me every minute, and I thought of how nice it was gonna be to grow old together. I have two sons, and I called her "my girl" and thought of her as the girl I never had. But we never know what's going to happen. Two days before she had been with me only 3 years, she was hit by a truck and died right in front of me. All I had time for was to pet her, and say goodbye, I love you. My heart still mourns for her, I just can't believe she's gone, but I do my best every day to celebrate our fun times together, and pray I'll see her again some day. Sometimes life sucks. But you have to go on, there will be many wonderful things down the road, too. For me, it was finding Sherman that helped my heart to heal. This is Rosie is at graduation from obedience class:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/cyber-sibes/Rosieheadpic.jpg

[poofy]

Glacier is very right, and keep on doing what your doing..dont be discouraged.
Loveing your dog like you do is OK, we all do..so nothing wrong there..Just hang in there and it will work out..as long as your trying it can be wroked out.. :)

[K9soul]

Audrey, I can't really add much to what Glacier said. I feel her post is excellent and I fully agree with her. You are most definitely NOT a bad dog mom. I feel that lady was too hard on you, but perhaps she was just trying to really make an impression so that you wouldn't go back to that guy too. It's a shame she had to say such things to make you feel so low :(.

I mostly wanted to send {{hugs}} to you. You haven't failed. You may have taken a step back, but you haven't lost and failed. Read my siggy quote, and get back on your feet, and try again ok? :)

[Jadapit]

(((Hugs))) I'm sorry you are feeling so down. You are doing everything you can for Josie, that makes you a GREAT dog owner! I feel the same way about my fur kids as you do Josie.

Have you ever watched The Dog Whisperer? That guy rocks!! I have seen him turn around very dog aggressive dogs. Its amazing. He has a dvd out now. You might want to think about ordering it. Here are a couple of links you might want to look at. One is about the dvd. You hang in there, it will all work out.

http://www.cesar-millan.com/?source=adwords


http://dogpsychologycenter.com/

[LKPike]

I can't help loving her like I do, even if it's not natural to love a dog so much.
...


every animal loving friend I have ever had, and several of them also have skin kids, love their dogs in the same way they love their children. I'm not joking when I call Jillian my little lover. She IS my world, if it came down to her or my husband - her, no second thought or hesitation or even slight feeling of guilt, her. so if it is unnatural to love a dog so much, then atleast your definatly not alone cause theres atleast a dozen ((myself and friends)) who are just as "freaky" as you :p

[tz1]

the guy is obviously a fool. some dogs' jaws are strong enough to break bones in half :confused: can't really see why this guy would try to provoke a dog

[Pawsitive Thinking]

If she has you and you have her you'll work it out!

[slleipnir]

Thanks. I only read a few posts, cause I have to go out. I will finish when I'm home.

First off, I feel embarassed for posting this last night. I was just very upset.

Also, I don't think Duke is a bad person, or a bad trainer. I just don't agree that is for Josie. He has turned some vicious aggressive dogs that had nothing else for them other than to be put to sleep back on track. I have seen the dogs, and they are nice dogs. I do believe he saves a lot of dogs, and helps a lot of people. I just don't aggree with it for Josie.

[slleipnir]

the guy is obviously a fool. some dogs' jaws are strong enough to break bones in half :confused: can't really see why this guy would try to provoke a dog

He trains them the way police officers train their dogs to protect...he uses a sleeve or body suit.

Also..they say never to tighten up on the leash when walking by something you don't want her to tense up over. I guess by tightening the leash, it tells them "be careful!" so they'll get more nervous...it would be like walking with your mom, then she grabs your arm and pulls you really close. You would feel nervous for her suddenly pulling you close? Maybe there is danger? That being said..I still do it even if I don't mean to :(

Josie and Zeke (and the cats) all live with me, together. They all get along. Josie is sometimes annoyed by Zeke..and they don't play a lot either.

Thanks for the advice :D

[K9soul]

Also..they say never to tighten up on the leash when walking by something you don't want her to tense up over.


I agree with that. Tash has a thing about lunging at kids if they run/ride bikes/skateboards etc right by her. I try to just keep her out of those situations, i.e. walk her at night, walk her when kids are in school, or go a different way if I see kids ahead. Tightening the leash really brings out the "must fight" instinct in the dog. I try to keep treats on me (cheese or hotdogs) and have her sit and focus on me for a treat if someone walks right by her while she nervous. This prevents that tight leash problem that only seems to make things worse. Of course if it's really a touchy situation and you have to keep her held tightly to you, sometimes that happens, and it has happened to me. I try to really avoid that though since it really isn't a good situation, you want her experiences to be happy and calm as possible.

[Glacier]

Also..they say never to tighten up on the leash when walking by something you don't want her to tense up over.



That's a really hard thing not to do, but it is true. I've noticed with Kayleigh that if I tense up, she reacts more. She follows my lead. A few weeks ago, we ran into a guy with an off-leash JRT, which to Kayleigh is a snack. Fortunately he had good verbal control on the dog and I managed to just keep walking. Kayleigh was interested but she didn't freak out. For her that's great progress!

[finn's mom]

Also..they say never to tighten up on the leash when walking by something you don't want her to tense up over.


As K9soul and Glacier have already agreed about this, I will, too. It is a hard habit to break, but, it has definitely helped with Finn. If I act nervous, so does he. I, too, try to keep treats with me. But, usually I just walk the opposite direction from whatever it is that's distracting.

[carole]

HUGS Audrey, first of all we all completely understand the love you have for Josie, most of us fit into the same category, I love my cats so much as well, and I have two children, they are just part of my family period, don't be too discouraged by what has happened recently, maybe it won't take too long to turn things around again, just be patient, and good luck to you,some great advice has been offered by those who have a lot of experience and I am sure it will help you, in the meantime take care and we are all here for you to listen and offer support.

[Thandi]

Glacier said it all (as usual!) :) My late Rhodie was dog and child aggressive, especially in her last 5 or so years, and also very much a one-person dog (me, of course!) She lived a very happy 11.5 years, had great walks, but was never, ever allowed near other dogs or young children. I was even careful with her around teenagers, just in case. It was never a problem and she was absolutely loved, spoiled and had a great life. So will you and your furkid.

[wolfie]

*hugs*

I'm sorry they made you feel bad. I know you work so hard with Josie. I think the best solution is to not get her involved in situations that could make her agressive. Instead play at home, go for walks when there's no one around, like you are doing. I agree, that it is not a good idea to get her provoked.

You are a great owner to Josie. She is lucky to have you, and you're lucky to have her.

[Vette]

Does your family have other dogs?

Kirby is the same way.. sorta.. he'll start fights for no reason.
but i keep him away from other dogs period. problem solved.
he has bit my mom before. but luckily only on the finger nail and it just brusied her nail. i dont think hed bite anyone else as long as hes not being possive over food or something.

but i live at home with my parents in the woods,, and have 17achers fenced in.
so the situation is probably very different

*huggies* to the both of you

[moosmom]

Slleipnir,

If it were up to me, and whether I take the risk of her biting someone, I'd put a muzzle on her. This would break my heart. But, if it boiled down to having her, as opposed to NOT having her, I'd much rather her be a little inconvenienced 3 times a day with a muzzle. That would give me 21 hours being with her without the muzzle!!!

((((HUGS)))))

Donna

[BitsyNaceyDog]

Slleipnir,

If it were up to me, and whether I take the risk of her biting someone, I'd put a muzzle on her. This would break my heart. But, if it boiled down to having her, as opposed to NOT having her, I'd much rather her be a little inconvenienced 3 times a day with a muzzle. That would give me 21 hours being with her without the muzzle!!!

((((HUGS)))))

Donna
I agree that having a muzzle is a good idea, just incase a situation arises and you feel you need one. A costumer of mine at my boarding facility has a JRT who is extremely dog agressive, yet great with people. Whenever he brings Buddy (the JRT) into my work he puts a muzzle on him because he knows there is a good chance he may cross another dogs path. After Buddy is in the back he never sees another dog and he is completly fine with us. We walk him when we have no other dogs outside and he does fine, and when he's inside he cannot see any other dogs from his room. The only time he has to wear the muzzle is when he's walking into my work.