Need advice (training/socialization issues)

[Uabassoon]

Payson is not doing well in his class. In the class they use food a lot as a motivator. Most of the dogs will happily sit or give their owners attention for a treat. Payson does react to praise, however we seem to be unable to get his attention. He's so distracted by everything around him it seems. We can't wave a treat in front him because that doesn't get his attention, most of the time calling his name doesn't get his attention either. When we do get him to pay attention to us, it's seems that he is distracted by us and unable to really focus on anything. It's not like we can wave pets in front of him as a bribe as everyone else in the class is doing with their treats. How can we get past this?

Payson also does not do well with other dogs. He is fear aggressive. Yesterday I took him to a friends house for a doggie playdate and he did not act well at all. My friend's dog Moses was as sweet as can be. Not aggressive in anyway, very playful and friendly even when Payson would snap or growl. Payson did not activley seek out Moses, but as soon as Moses would get near him he'd snap. I tried petting him and telling him what a good boy he was and giving him tons of praise but that didn't seem to help any. He also seemed to really avoid eye contact with Moses, if possible he would turn his head away every time he saw Moses.

Is learning to handle other dogs something that he can learn? Should I keep trying to socialize him with Moses or should I give up?

I did want to add something positive. Moses and his owner were playing frisbee which really seemed to excite Payson. I could tell that he really wanted to play too, but was scared and also didn't really know how. During his excitement I tossed a ball for him which he ran after and grabbed twice! Now this might seem like something small but it really is a big deal. We've tried so hard to get him to play but he just doesn't understand how to.

[shutterbug0303]

hhhmmm...this is a tough one. We had a lab in our class that wasn't food motivated and the owner couldn't get her to do anything. Is there anything that you notice at home that really gets Payson's attention? How about something really yummy like chicken hot dogs? That's what I used for Skye and she thought she was in heaven.

We also worked with Venus and our RB Zeus with praise rewards, not treats. It really helps develop the bond between you and your pup and they're not focusing solely and getting a treat, but really making you happy. If that is something that helps Payson, then that's what you should keep doing. I'm sure he will eventually begin to focus more on you and less on the surroundings. Does your training center offer any one-on-one time? We got to come in on Saturday's if we needed any extra help. Speak with your training and let them know that Payson is having a hard time focusing. See what suggestions they have for you. I'm sure they've dealt with that before and can give you some good pointers, or maybe some special time together to work with Payson alone... :)

(about the socialization issues - I would never "give up", but I don't have any advice for helping the situation along...:confused: hopefully someone will have good info for you though)

[Den Anne Pen]

How old is Payson?
When i went to training with Denver he did not do to good with the treats eithier he did like being called good boy though and when the other dogs where getting there treats he seemed intrested but would'nt take the one's i had I tryed alot of diffent kinds and he loved them when we wore home just in training he cared less i ended up getting
Gerber Sticks there for toddlers and they look like little hot dogs they make a few diffent flavors like chicken
beef, turkey .ect. as soon as i brought them with me he would listen to anything he just wanted the treat
So that's what worked for me
The only down side to it was when we did a command where they came ALL the dogs came to me instead of there owners :)

I'd give that a try and see if it works :D

Good Luck

[veegan]

I definitely think he can get over, or at least lessen, his fear of other dogs, but I highly suggest asking the trainer for help, or finding a trainer familiar with aggression/fear/anxiety issues to work one on one with you and payson. youre right that he is afraid of moses, the fact that he is avoiding eye contact with him is a clear indication of that. I wouldnt suggest you keep doing what youre doing with moses though, because it can be difficult to identify what level of interation is too stressful for him, and you dont want to push him too far accidentally, you always want to avoid reaching that point. a professional can help you learn to recognize his stress signals, and what triggers them, and of course teach you how to desensitze him. I suggest you seek out a positive-only trainer, (clicker trainer). personally I feel this is the only method of training anyone should use lol but those methods work best especially for this type of behavior problem.
(http://www.sfspca.org/academy/referral.shtml#other_state, http://www.apdt.com/trainers-and-owners/trainer-search/trainer-search.php)

as for in class, have you talked to the trainer about it?? all the trainers Ive worked with often have to set up a visual barrier (blankets hung over an ex-pen surrounding the dog so it cant see any other dogs) for dogs like payson. often over time the dogs get more used to class and can get rid of the barrier, but of course this isnt always the case. both my dogs are very dog-reactive, and alki has had to stay behind a barrier in obedience classes so far. it definitely helps, although he may not be able to be in a group class yet. his fear may be causing him too much stress. again a trainer would be able to identify if this is the case or not. also, you may want to try using more exciting treats, though this may not make any difference. you may not be able to do any actual training in class with him yet, it may be too distracting. does he eat treats at all in class?? if so you can start just working on rewarding focus and/or ignoring the other dogs, even if for only a split second. for example, he is staring at another dog for 5 mins, then he glances away for a second- you click + reward, or better yet, he is staring at another dog (or whatever else) then glances back at you for a second- you click + reward. but again, I definitely suggest discussing this with the trainer, s/he will be able to give you advice. and also, the fear issues may be contributing to the in class issues so definitely bring that up as well.

[Uabassoon]

Thanks for the responses so far.

Den Anne Pen Payson is an estimated 3-4 years old, we adopted him about 2 months ago.

Thanks for your advice Moo. The class he's uses positive-only methods. We don't use clickers but instead we have a marker word. So where you would click, I happily say YES! then follow imediatly with his reward. I like the idea of setting up a visual barrier.

They do offer one on one sessions, maybe if we haven't accomplished anything by the time the class has ended then it's something we could look into. For now he's at least a doll at home. He doesn't bark, he's doesn't destroy things, he loves the cats, he's a really great dog at home.

Edit: Moo I looked at that second link you posted the trainer we use is one on the list :) This is where he goes. http://www.humane-so-arizona.org/training_classes.htm

[Uabassoon]

I also wanted to add that he's been getting better with the potty training issues. We haven't had an accident in a few days. We've had a bit of a hard time due to some of the problems stated in my original post, but on top of that he seemed to hate going outside. He still does not like going for walks, but when we go right outside the townhouse he now seems content to sniff around and find a spot. However things like dogs barking and random noises seem to distract and often scare him.