Finding VS. Looting

[jackie]

This is unbelievable!!! White people "find", Black people "loot".
Please look at the caption next to the photos.

finding (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1)

looting (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530)

[Soledad]

This really doesn't surprise me, sadly.

[Twisterdog]

I don't think you have enough information to judge, based on these two still pictures and captions alone.

Perhaps the photographer saw the person in the second picture actually enter a grocery store and take the items off the shelves ... the definition of looting.

And perhaps the photographer saw the people in the first picture actually find a loaf of bread floating in the water beside them while they were walking nowhere near the grocery store.

You don't know ... neither do I. But without knowing the background behind these two photos, it's premature to be shouting "Racism!". I personally would never have noticed the races of the people in the pictures had you not pointed it out. I don't know that many people would, frankly.

[Kfamr]

It's not surprising, unfortunately.
On CNN.com the caption for the "looting" photo is:


A young man drags groceries through chest-deep water in New Orleans on Tuesday.

[RICHARD]

Here's another view.

I saw clips this morning of people at Walmart....One gentleman had about 25 fishing rods over his shoulder.

Another man had a 12 pack of Coors beer in his possession.

Another looter had a cart full of tennis shoes.

What color were they?

It don't friggin matter.

Food is Food. Fishing rods and Coors beer ain't gonna keep you alive or do you much good.

20 pairs of tennis shoes from the shoe section still won't fill your stomach.


So food I'll give them a pass on....

All the other crap.....shoot first and then ask questions.

-----------------------

As in the L.A. riots, the same people who are looking the local areas will complain about the stores who will not return to those areas becuase of the losses they incurred.

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[KYS]

The conditions are deplorable no matter what
religion or race you are.
The looting is rampant!
Everybody needs to come together and
help each-other.
Not make victims suffer more because of the
opportunity is their to steal/take advantage.

I can certainly understand someone taking
food and water.

I can not understand taking, T.V., microwaves
jewelery, guns. etc. etc. etc.

[elizabethann]

I saw one woman on t.v. taking diapers - that I can understand. But then I saw a guy running away from the cameras with a giant t.v. on his shoulder! All I could think of was....where the h-e-l-l was he going to plug that in?

[sasvermont]

I suppose one must be there to truly understand the fear and upset concerning having your home and personal items washed out from underneath you.

I don't think the businesses would do anything with the products except dump them in the trash anyway. It is a write off for the businesses. They have insurance. Many of the poor folks don't have a dime to begin with. Is it ok to take the products? Well, under the circumstances, I would have to say, let them be taken, stolen, appropriated, whatever. I am not approving of the stealing - just saying that under the circumstances, let it be the way it is. Most of the items taken will be write offs anyway.

I did not address the black white issue, simply because I don't think it is what the looting is all about. It is about poor people, trying to get something that will be thrown away anyway.

I feel so, so sorry for the people in the hurricane stricken area. They will suffer more than we will ever know.

So sorry.

For me, it is a people issue, not a color issue!

[moosmom]

Sasvermont is right. You have to be there to truly understand the whole situation and how the residents are coping with such a disaster.

[PJ's Mom]

Originally posted by sasvermont
It is about poor people, trying to get something that will be thrown away anyway.

I've been poor and I didn't steal to support my kids. This doesn't excuse their behavior.

[Lady's Human]

There was a quote from one of the looters on Fox, I forget the exact words, but it was something to the effect of this is our way of getting back at society that was holding us down.

That's not stealing for survival, that's stealing for revenge, and it's pointless at best.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168001,00.html

When you have to pull 1500 officers off of search and rescue to control looting, it makes me think shoot first ask questions later. This looting is pointless, abhorrent disgusting behavior. Stealing car radios and batteries is not about survival, it's about destruction.

The best way to cope with disaster is listen to instructions, help your neighbor, and help the authorities, not hinder their efforts by making them try and control a war zone while they're trying to do search and rescue. :mad:

[sasvermont]

Please understand that I do not condone stealing but I do however, know that under normal circumstances, things would be different and not excusable. These circumstances are so unknown to us that we need to think about deeper issues - and realize we are not in their shoes/circumstances. How can we sit in judgement of their behavior when it is not happening to us?

Would I steal items under those circumstances, well, I would probably. Think about having nothing....not even a home or a job.

Yikes, the amount of confusion and heart ache must be immense. Unbelievable.

In my heart, the looters are forgiven, no matter what they have taken. I think it boils down to their survival.

[Lady's Human]

Survival= getting food and shelter in any way possible.

reprehensible behavior= stealing for the sake of stealing.

There are some things that are just inexcusable. Remember, the looters are diverting assets away from search and rescue operations by their actions, are shooting at rescue workers, and stealing from AMBULANCES AND HOSPITALS. That's lower than whale excrement.:mad:

[jackie]

sasvermont, sorry I don not agree with you.

Like the other people said, going in to take food and what you need to survive is one thing, climbing through windows or electronic store etc is something COMPLETELY different.

And while I am sorry this horrible thing happened, I am finding it a bit hard to feel sorry for these people. :rolleyes:

One more thing I would like to know, id why didn't more people get out? They had at least 4 or 5 days advanced warning, and yet most of them chose to stay. I will never undertand why they didn't get out before it hit. Is it because they wanted to protect their homes? Nothing in the world is more valuable to me then the lives of my family.

[PJ's Mom]

Originally posted by sasvermont
Think about having nothing....not even a home or a job.

Been there, done that. Slept in the car with 4 small children and a husband who wouldn't work. No food, no diapers, no baby formula. I never stole to support my kids.

Nothing excuses this type of behavior. NOTHING.

[sasvermont]

I agree that it is fine to not agree!

If you have ever been in a poor area of any city, you would find people not having the accomodations in life that we have. Many of them have no cars, no money, live on welfare or little income. Some are old, not very smart, but the biggest factor is poor. We are talking dirt poor.

There are people living in Vermont, where I live, who have no electricity, running water and still have dirt floors. Yes, no wood, just dirt as their floor.

The south is famous for it's poor people. Dirt poor, as I refer to it. They have no place to go because most if not all of their family is poor! They don't have a Passat wagon to load all their possessions in and drive inland to their cottage. They don't have insurance - they have nothing.

I agree that we do not agree. That is what is so nice about Pet talk and our lives. Now put yourself in their shoes for a minute. Up to your neck in water.
Ugh. I could not survive.

[elizabethann]

One more thing I would like to know, id why didn't more people get out? They had at least 4 or 5 days advanced warning, and yet most of them chose to stay. I will never undertand why they didn't get out before it hit. Is it because they wanted to protect their homes?


Most of the people who didn't leave the area couldn't. If they had cars, they couldn't afford the gas to get out of town. Some of them were indigent and didn't have the means to get out. Some were sick and some were old. Even some hospitals didn't evacuate because they couldn't move the little infants. They moved the babies to a lower floor in case the roof blew off or leaked. But they couldn't move them because they needed to be incubated and needed medicine and care 24/7. And of course, I'm sure there were some people who chose to "ride it out".

[jackie]

^From what I heard on the news they were operating free coaches out of the city for people. But maybe I was mistaken :confused:

[Cataholic]

Disclaimer: I am NOT making a comparison to what the sufferers of the hurricane are experiencing, and what happened in Cincinnati in 2001.

When the riots struck our city in 2001, with cries of 'civil unrest', racism, the man keeping them down, etc., looting was RAMPANT.

It was not a matter of survival for them. They looted because they could.


I agree with the others- food? Water? Sustenance? I look the other way. TVs, tennis shoes, outfits? Shoot first, take names later.


PJs Mom- you are to be commended. You did what you did in a very desperate time.

Those that didn't leave the city probably had NO alternative.

[elizabethann]

FYI

Bush Jr, Bush Sr and Bill Clinton will be making a speech this afternoon re: the unrest down south and what we can all do to help.

[JenBKR]

I have to agree with those saying looting is wrong. Police forces are taken off of the search and rescue to deal with people stealing tvs and other electronics - and all the GUNS were stolen from Wal-Mart!! Scary!

Yes, stores like Wal-Mart can consider some of these as write-offs, but there are many mom-and-pop stores owned and run by everyday people that are being looted as well. How is that fair to them?

I also heard that there was a plane that was supposed to land that had supplies for hospital patients, but could not land because of looters with guns on the runway. Anyone else hear about that?

edit: I want to add that stealing essentials is different - food, water, clothing, other necessities. I don't think that people have a choice in that matter.

[popcornbird]

Looting is never justified, EVER, BUT, in this situation, if these people are stealing food, water, clothes...it is different, because this situation is different. If we put ourselves in their shoes...if we had no food, no water...our children were dying before our eyes, of course we would take any food we could, because we'd have no other choice. I mean IF it was a choice between life and death. That being said, when they are stealing MATERIAL things that will NOT assist in their survival, in any way.....:eek:......there's a huge problem. That is looting because they want to. I did watch a video on MSNBC though, where some citizens were crying and saying they were stealing food, not because they wanted to, but because their children were dying and they HAD to. I can understand it in that situation, and don't consider that looting, but looting and shooting as some people are doing? That is a SHAME. I can't understand how anyone could do things that could make the situation worse than it already is. :(

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by PJ's Mom
I've been poor and I didn't steal to support my kids. This doesn't excuse their behavior.


I agree with you 100%.

Would I take food or water? Probably, if the alternative was death. But would I take anything else? Never.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Lady's Human
There was a quote from one of the looters on Fox, I forget the exact words, but it was something to the effect of this is our way of getting back at society that was holding us down.



THAT was a prevalent thought after the riots here in El Lay..

Here's the dynamic.

The color of the people don't matter in this story, it just shows how stupid people are when they spew this kinda attitiude.


The reason that the looters were targeting the small mom an pop stores owned by this other group is that, "They came into our neighborhood, took over the stores and started to rip us off...."

The store owners, took up station on the roofs of their businesses and were prepared to shoot looters-they did pop caps over the rioters heads and to this day they was never any reports of shop owners being charged with any crimes.

And all this was done with the "blessing" of the LAPD, who had their hands full with people who could not defend themselves their businesses and homes.

-----------------------------------

Having been in thru about 5 pretty big earthquakes here in CA, I can honestly say that I don't remember seeing any real looting after that. Some people lost everything, but we did not lose our minds or our pride.

[KYS]

Richard I remember those riots very well.
I could not watch the news with out crying.
I could not understand how other humans could
treat others like that.

And before someone says, I have to be in their shoes
don't bother.

PJ's Mom, I applaud you.

I also want to add, My greatest respect
and appreciation for
all the people who have become heroes
by helping their fellow neighbors in this crises.

_____________

[jackie]

Kanye West (http://media.putfile.com/Kanye79) Says "George Bush does not care about black people."

[MOXY]

Bush is an easy target for your name calling, he's just one man and whatever his feelings are about race or class :( wouldn't have any impact on a response from Americans to start helping PEOPLE affected by the flood. He's not gonna rescue anyone, that's not his job, he's a pencil pusher and hand shaker.

This is the point. PEOPLE would help, many want to. No one needs to steal or loot anything. Other countries are even helping. To see Americans justify looting and stealing is a troubling revelation and looks greedy and selfish especially when you see what is/was taken. :eek:

We all need to learn a lesson from this and we have. You won't see buracratic red tape slow the reaction time of rescuers again in the near future. And if a President has to apologize for a rescue response to an act of god, it probably won't be in our generation.

[Lobodeb]

Back to the original point of this thread, however, I do see the difference in the labeling of the photos.

Black people are seen as looting, white people are finding! I just saw this thread, clicked on the links in Jackie's post, and low and behold, the photos have been removed. Why? :confused:

And I have to agree with those who would take food and water, etc. for SURVIVAL. I'm sorry, but a 27' TV isn't going to do be a darn bit of good. It sounds like people are trying to take care of a tragic situation. Write off or not.

[jackie]

I didn't remove the links, they must have been delete. They were drawing a lot of heat and critism all over the world.

[jackie]

Bush is an easy target for your name calling

I wasn't call anyone names. :confused: