Emergency Help! (Gasping Betta)

[sandragonfly]

please go here (http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86998)! :(

for my dear drapples, what do I do for him? (no euthanize I pray!) I'll be waiting.. :confused:

[jackie]

If he is two years old, he might just be coming to end of his lifespan. Thats the only thing I can think of, sowwy. :(

[sandragonfly]

no.. :( ohh please don't tell me that..

we've still got a faith!! it has been about 12 hours since I posted for help, drapples is still surviving!!! so heartbreaking see him catching for breath..

what does this even means? how long will he goes........? anything? anything?!

[jesse_3]

Gina, I don't know what to say. Prayers are on the way Gina!

Steph, Jes, and Splinter

[coodew]

You might try this website for hedgehog care.

http://www.hedgies.com/hedgehog_health_care.htm

COODEW

[king2005]

I don't understand that hedghog post, since were talking about a fish.


Anyhoo. I have several large fish. 1 thing that I have learned from them is that sometimes the water goes bad early. I always know when its gone bad early, cause my fish will do the gasping aswell.

Also when they r ill they will gasp. Does ur fish have a bubbler to help make air in the water? If he doesn't like plants, then him him a small bubbler & have it in a back corner.

I bought my fish a bubble wands & they love playing in the bubbles. Even my Apple Snail will play in them. Mind u even the smallest bubble wand will be too large for a beta, so just get a small bubble rock.

[sandragonfly]

thank you everybody for the ideas!
I lowered his water, I could see him trying to gasp for air and it was the first time seeing him floating straight! not on his side down on the gravels.

I just check him this morning, he looks a little better! back to his colors, not almost white like past two days. :(

king2005, even though I change the water weekly, I suspected it must was because of bad water, probably. I should try the bubby wands!

thank you all!! I'm smiling! :)

[king2005]

u want a small bubble stone, the wand is too large for a betta & would prob blow him around. the stones can be quite small so its less powerfull

[sandragonfly]

well I meant bubby stone! :o

I just recalled, in his first year, he lived in a "mashion" with filtration and he loved it! he would go up to waterfall part and let it push him down then he just goes back to it and going pushed down... it was funny to watch him going in the circles!! hehe..

[king2005]

Assuming ur in the usa

Big Al's air pump (http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=19737&category_id=1625&pcid1=1623)

Small air stone (http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=31785&category_id=1627&pcid1=1623)

tubing (http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=19865&category_id=1631&pcid1=1623)

Nice & cheap eh??

If the store isn't in ur area order it online. Its a good company & many online people I know order their stuff online all the time. All my fish & supplies r from the store in my area.

& luckly when I move to Toronto, there is a store near by YAY.

They even have Betta foods (http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/category.xml?pcid1=2911;category_id=1777)

[kittycats_delight]

Gina I always found that anytime our Betta was not quite himself a little extra aquarium salt would help. Within an hour of adding it he would always get his color back and begin to behave like his old self. Or course if other meds were needed we would add those as well but always we added the aquarium salt too. I will have to have a look and see if I have a picture of Fred around. I think I may have to take a picture of a picture. :)

[sandragonfly]

I'm so sorry delightkitty, many things happened at the same time!

I had some old aquarium salt left and added them the minute after I got your post. that's probably why he looks better this morning.

if no better by tonight or tomorrow, I'll try some peas (saw from poor julius's thread) or that bubby method - we'll see!

I feel SO bad for drapples! thanks everyone!! it meansso much to me when someone knows fish isn't just a fish! :)

[furrykidsmother]

Gina I hope Drapples is doing much better today. Healing thoughts and prayers to him.

[jesse_3]

Hey Gina, I was comming on to check on Drapples. How is he doing? I am still praying for him!

Steph, Jesse, and Splinter

[Lexi_Lover]

I posted this in your other thread Gina! :( Hope it helps!


Originally posted by Lexi_Lover
Try and bring him to shallower water, take a majority of the water in his tank out, so maybe its only filled halfway or so. That way, he will come up for air sooner if he needs it. Maybe its because he feels so deep that he NEEDS to gasp. This way, he will know that air is right there for him.

How do you mean GASPING Gina? :confused:

[Lexi_Lover]

And I don't think he will pass on Gina! Don't worry! :) Many bettas can live til' they are 3 or 4 if they are happy where they are! And I can tell Drapples is happy! :D

[sandragonfly]

yeah, lexi - I saw it, I lowered his water then. I'm sorry I don't understand your last question? if you mean this, he breaths to hard and slowly... thank you for thinking positive but, lexi & jesse, I don't think he's going to make it. :( anytime will come soon. he got whiter again, thinner and his chest's swollen now. :( :(

he wouldn't eat at all. (anything) - I don't want to see him suffering...what do I do now?

*taking a deep sigh..*

[Lexi_Lover]

Oh Gina! :( I'm sorry! Did you try the peas? As well, check his eyes for me, and tell me what they look like. Kara, where are you! Gina, would you like me to post this on a betta forum to get emergency responses?

[sandragonfly]

oh yes please paula! that would really, really help! flamepony sent me her fish forum and couldn't register in to ask for emergency responses (my pager doesn't accept javascripts) - could you do it for me please?

I just noticed his breathing, he's not breathing as hard as before. just swims frantically when I come closer to his home. :( checked his eyes also, looks all normal. no difference changes.

yes, I tried peas, he wouldn't even bother to try it. :( on more note, he doesn't look like a pinecone either. I think he's really starving!

thanks so much, paula!! I've been hoping for luvgold & bccrazy's help too!

[flamepony12]

Have you tried the peas? That should help if it is a stomach/swimbladder problem... The airstone should help too. Try lowering his water so he doesn't have to struggle up for breath. Good luck! :(

By the way, I'm sorry you couldn't register. :(

[sandragonfly]

yeah, two peas. they're still floating.. I just looked at him again, just doing the same thing. and is really shrinking. :( :confused: -- where are you, paula?!?

I would try the bubblestone but I'm afraid it'd add more stress on my drapples after all he was trying to work on his breathings. :(

flamepony, I will register once I get to a computer then I'll be able to make new thread/respond like here and thanks!!

[flamepony12]

You shelled the peas and cut them up into little, tiny pieces, right?

[Lexi_Lover]

I'm sorry I couldn't get here sooner Gina! I have posted it and many people are on now, so it shouldn't be too long! I have 2 windows up, checking frequently! :(

[sandragonfly]

yeah! it's too big for him lol. I put the second pea in this morning in case the last night pea doesn't taste freshy.

sorry lexi, didn't mean to push you, just was wondering where you went! just do what you can! :(

I understand all of betta mothers are busy! ;)

:( come on, little fellow!!

[Lexi_Lover]

Here is what I received back so far...


Turn the lights off, make sure he's in the dark as this will reduce the stress.
I am PRESUMING he is at the right tempertature and in a tank by himself.
Are there any other signs of problems? Fungus, abnormal poo, etc?
I'll read the full story now!

[Lexi_Lover]

Heres some more info Gina...


Next, dangle a blood worm on his mouth using tweezers to see if he will take it. If that doesn't work try another type of food that he loves normally.
Think positive!!
EDIT: After reading the full story I would not recommend an air pump with a bubble stone as he doesn't need the air in his water, especially if he has recently had a water change as this will add more oxygen to the water anyway, the noise would cause more stress I think.

[Lexi_Lover]

Sarah, our Betta helper, has been doing great, she has updated me with another task...


Possibly another water change might be an idea so the water is as perfect as possible but this is risky as it will stress him out!

[Lexi_Lover]

MORE INFO! Hope its not overwelming! But these people(especially this one that keeps posting) are doing great!


Just read my own post on the other forum (which is very wierd) and I've just had a thought! I am now clutching at straws but as he is losing weight and not eating then maybe it is a problem with his resparatory system, he's not eating as all his energy is going on trying to get enough air. Now then....... what to do about this..... I'll see what I can come up with!

[sandragonfly]

oh paula, please tell everyone a big thank you and THANK YOU too!

no this is not overwhelming - yes, I took him into a smaller tank with shallow water and put him in closet where no cats/lights would bother him two nights ago. I'm glad I did that!

yes, respiratory is the problem! he wouldn't be able to do anything. I wish I'd know how all of this started.. :( no food for pretty long so we rule his poo out.

I know it's stressful for drapples changing his water a couple of times now because I had to. the water gets murky with microwhite flakes.. does that rings a bell? or I assume they were from the peas?

[Lexi_Lover]

All done Gina! Hope its helped! Hoping for a good update!

[Lexi_Lover]

Here is some more info...they need answers!


Not the writer of this!!

DISEASE: INFLAMED GILLS
GENERAL INFO: The gill or gills of a betta may become inflamed, because of nitrate poisoning, and possibly bacterial infections, or even a defective gill (if it was born that way).

SYMPTOMS: One or both gills will not close all the way (look at betta from the top it is easier to see it then), gills may look red (inflamed) or not, in the last stages, the betta may be gasping for air, unable to breath.
TREATMENT: Isolate sick betta. Do a full jar water change every third day. Every time you change water, add antibiotic (Pick one that treats inflamed gills) to the water. In the case of nitrate poisoning, simply add one drop of methylene blue in betta’s jar.


Need more descriptions on the micro white flakes. Can she describe them more?
Does she have gravel in the tank of so does she use a gravel vac/cleaner?
How about inflamed gills?

[Lexi_Lover]

Some more info Gina...hope you check back often!


Beginning to think it's either old age or an internal parasite!
It might be worth trying a product called Maracyn Two as it treats internal and external parasites.

[sandragonfly]

ack, can some one send me a sample picture of imflamed gills? I think I do see red parts but think I have seen that all the time. :confused: the gills breaths out and closes allright.

I think I'll lean more to interal parasite! where do I get methylene or maracyn two?!

snowflakes, I think they must be from the peas dissolving. I'll change the water again with peas & see if they appear again.

many thanks!!

[sandragonfly]

of course lexilover, this is an emergency, I would want to check back in as often as I can!!

[sandragonfly]

sorry! there's no gravels right now. since he's so weak, I'd not want him to lay down on them. too bumpy & crowdy for him. but I never use vaccuum anyway.

well, we gotta keep trying! I'm so thankful he's still breathing!! it has been those three long days for him - poor thing!!

[Lexi_Lover]

Here you are Gina...more is on the way, I hope!


She said she doesn't vaccuum........she should otrherwise the gunk won't be cleaned out of it and this can cause the planaria!

BTW Gina, did you want the link so you could check there, I will be back and forth quite often, but just so you can see?

[Lexi_Lover]

Not getting anywhere with the pictures actually. Can't find anything on google images.
Is there a build up of mucus around the gills? I am really leaning towards old age (Bettas tend to live 2-4 years) or internal parasites.

Snowflakes could be planaria due to unclean gravel and overfeeding.
Is she UK or US or other situated as far as the maracyn goes.... I'll google those pictures for her now
DO apologise to her for all the questions and so on!! Just trying to help! Seeing all my posts on there is strange but reading them makes me think!!

Planaria are not overly dangerous to fish but a severe outbreak is a sign that there is too much left over food and the gravel isn't being cleaned enough. If the snowflake things wriggle on the side of the tank then they are PROBABLY planaria, if not then correct.....left over pea bits!!

[sandragonfly]

yes, the link please.

well, I clean/change the water everytime I see anything dirty. weekly isn't good enough? why this time? :( I've had him for almost two years (november 2003), I don't understand.

at least right now, he's looking better than the first night I found him laying & gasping for his life.

edit: okay, no mucus.

[Lexi_Lover]

Here is the link to help save Drapples (http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=105593)

[Lexi_Lover]

Weekly water changes are good but that won't stop the gunk collecting in the gravel.
I'm not critiscising Gina and am so glad that the betta is making progress I'm just trying to help.
It is difficult though.
What size is the tank? Does she have any form of filter in there?

[sandragonfly]

okay, let me clear this up, I changed his water last night. without gravels. and the snowflakes just came up this afternoon.
that got me wonder if drapples tried to nibble a piece of pea?

by the way, should I not add bio-coat that add electrolites now? I'm afraid if I don't, it'll kill him.

I'm gonna check the link now!

[Lexi_Lover]

good about the no mucus.Do the gills look different at all to what she nomally sees? Inflamed, puffy? She'll be pleased to know I am running out of questions!!

Gina, she also has her MSN addie if you would like it. If you have MSN, she said she'd be glad to talk to you.

[Lexi_Lover]

Another person has tuned in to help us out, hope it helps Gina!


Gill colour should be cherry red. Any lighter and it could be ammonia/nitrite poisoning or anaemia.
Did she test for ammonia nitrite nitrate and ph? Also testing from the tap is a good idea too.
Still dont know what the set up is, we need the size of tank/vase and filtration used and how long its been running.
If shes only doing water changes once a week then it could be a bacterial disease.
Does she use water conditioners as well.
sorry if these have been asked already.

[Lexi_Lover]

hi gina!!!
Right....... possibly pea then! Don't worry about the planaria thing... not a critiscism although as your emotions are running high it probably felt like it and so I apologise!
Did you try and dangle a bloodworm or favourite food on his mouth as such with tweezers? I am trying everything!!
Post on your forum and I'll refresh the page and reply on here or use my above e-mail address for msn messenger if you have it

[Lexi_Lover]

Posted on the forum...


http://majesticbettas.com/diseases.htm

[sandragonfly]

oh dear! now this is overwhelming! as I'm typing/reading all of these on my pager screen and it wouldn't allow more than one window so I go forth, back & forth......!

I just emailed you, sarah, hope you got it! I don't have msn but ...(yay I got your email just now! will get to you in a minute!)

for everyone, right now the tank he's in is really small. before that, he was in a half gallon tank with filtration. but honestly, I don't think this has do something with gravels. for one, I throw out old gravels every 3-4 months because you know how moldy they get!

thank everybody so much.

[sandragonfly]

lol... typing all posts by myself is weird!

okay, just read the other forum.. all is good now, I've got in touch by emails with betta expert, sarah. ;)

next thing just now I've noticed his whole bottom body is whiter, lighter than the other parts.

I also just read throughout the symptoms from a link someone posted - "fin rot" is the only one that sounds right. drapples's fins is a little bit flakery too.

I'm going to grab maracyn from a store now.

thank you for bombing me with helps, god bless!

[Lexi_Lover]

is it fungus or slime. need pics of it


She has just e-mailed me to say that there is white stuff all over the bottom part of his body....... the underpart.
Can you describe them more Gina please?

[sandragonfly]

no fungus, no slime. his bottom part (from face to fin) is in a little lighter color (whiter than any others of his body). there is nothing on him.

[Lexi_Lover]

If it was internal parasites then you would see them wriggling outside its back end. Its getting too late to think properly.

If she can read this then we really need to know how much water he is in, and what the water stats are for ammonia, nitrite nitrate and ph.
Do 50% water changes every couple of days not 100%.

Is there a filter in the new tank?

[Lexi_Lover]

I'm thinking salt treatment and bacterial meds.

[sandragonfly]

oh, it's not internal parasite then. :( I thought we had an answer. well, I stick to water bacteria.

so what should I do now? besides change the water 50%ly every couple days & keep adding salts.

he is in a tank smaller than a half gallon just for now, less stress and it is just about a or a & half cup of water.

[Lexi_Lover]

It could still be an internal thing so try and get a wide-range anti-bacterial med. pima fix is very strong for bettas but it might work if diluted more than the average dosage, about half or what it recommends.
Keep adding salt, about half a teaspoon per gallon.
Keep him in the dark but keep the temp around 80f
try that and stay updating me/us!




I know you can get PimaFix at Wal-Mart by me! Good luck once again Gina!

[Lexi_Lover]

Hows Drapples doing today Gina?

[sandragonfly]

hi. :)

the same. :( I went to a pet store last night and they were out of maracyn.. :confused:

but I'm going to wal-mart for pimafix today! I changed, added aquasalt. that's all I could do for now.

hugs,
..gina & drapples

[bckrazy]

hrm. I keep going back and fourth on what I think this is... a lot of his symptoms are kinda conflicting. :(

here's what I would do ~ move him back to the 1/2 gallon and keep it filled halfway with clean, dechlorinated, tested water. Add a clean, live java fern from a trusted source to help with cleaning the water. To me, a filter in a 1/2 gal is overkill. Filters shouldn't be in a Betta tank any less than 2-3g, because in a smaller tank the currect would throw them around. 1/2 gals need to be changed at least 2 times a week, filter or not, anyway. Keep him in a dark place with a very constant temp. Did you say he's in 1 cup of water? if so... waaay too little, that would stress him more, and its just about impossible to treat 1 cup of water. To me, it sounds like swim bladder problems ~ gasping and swollen abdomen. I dunno, though. Is he having any trouble swimming to the surface? Does he swim sideways or sink/float a lot?

[sandragonfly]

yay! about an hour ago, I got MelaFix from other pet store I forgot about and made a tiny drop into his bowl. melafix is more antibacterial and for fin/tail rot. pimafix's more likely for fish with fungus (antifungal fish remedy) and I see he needs melaleuca (1.0%) in methylene blue -- metabolic remedy.

and what I felt better from, I stopped by betta's aside, looked at those bettas so I could compare drapples's healthy. now I see, he has a bit imflamed gills coming out but closing/opening allright still. melafix treats that too & open wounds.

bckrazy, thank you for stopping by! :) you see, drapples can't have those ferns, he got allegric stress from them. and I do apologize about a half tank with filtration. I responded a lot in rush yesterday - I meant he was in six gallon with that! :rolleyes: you can type out "drapples" in search forum along with "gina", I'm sure you'll find a few pictures of him in his half (second) tank without filtration. sorry! for the confusion. it's too small to have filtration thats why I change weekly. I also heard that aquasalt helps keeping his tank clean too. not mostly really.

about two cups, you know these "cups" the store have bettas in? that's about 3x of that size..isn't that about two cups? it's also more likely a vertical bowl, not too wide so the water is still pretty 'high'. I don't want to put him back in "large" (for him now for going through serve stress) half tank as it would stress him more as much water he has. again, I'm bad at the measures! :o by the way, it wasn't swollen abdomen.

yeah, he still swims up to the top frantically, breathing less harder now. his tummy colour looks a little bit normal'er' now.. prays!!

thank you everyone for your wonderful help!!
..gina & drapples

pssst, I got drapples a new friend! :D (of course not in the same bowl, etc..) I just like to think it as a spirit for drapples. :( his name is spirit and he's longeeest purple & white veiltail!

edit! wow, he's more aggressive now, keeps swimming up to the top to catch some air then floats back down to bottom and do it again, a lot! is that good signal? :( :confused:

[kittycats_delight]

Here (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83248&highlight=drapples) is the thread Gina was talking about with the pics of Drapples and his tank.

[sandragonfly]

:confused: september 2004? I must have mixed up somehow but I know I got drapples sept/nov/oct 2003.

yes, that's the link, thank you! wow, miss that colorful tank he was in. excuse the date in thread, I used old pictures. he's always looking the same...handsome. lol -

anyway, here's upate and still waiting for the answer to above.. drapples's muccch calmer but completely laying on his side. :( he'd cock a little but all flat now. still swims up/around when I come closer.

I just began his medication/treatment recently so can't really say much right now, let's hope he'll be a bit better tomorrow!

ps; did I offensed anyone by getting spirit?

[sandragonfly]

:( (http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87314
)

[Lexi_Lover]

Oh Gina! :( I'm so sorry to hear about Drapples...I'll go inform the others who have helped us. :(

[sandragonfly]

I did, thanks. :)