Doggie agression

[mzbogart]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forums, but I have a problem. I have a 9 month old pitbull/american bulldog. He has recently started having aggressive issues. It started at the vet office, he wanted so bad to get to this other dog. it was weird b/c there were about 5 dogs in the room but he only wanted a certain one. He wasn't showing teethe or anything just fighting to get away. and he weighs around 70 lbs, so it was all I had to get him outside. Then the other night, my cousin brought her kids over and he was outside and he was growling and biting the door to try to get her little girl who was about eye level with my dog. I read somewhere that children pose as a threat to dogs because they are about their size, so they seem to be other dogs. I am really worried about him. I was hoping to get some advice or trainer recommendations around the TN area. thanks guys

[2dog1cat]

has he been well socialized growing up? if so, it may be just something about these two that triggered him, but even so you need to nip this in the bud.

What I heard mostly in your story was that when he did act aggressively, he didn't stop when you tried to get him to so you need the tools to make him obey you.

I am going thru this exact same thing right now with koda. He went after a puppy the other day at the dog park and wouldn't stop and I didn't know HOW to correct him as he had never done this before.

If no-one here has any names, go thru your local pet store or yellow pages and find a one-on-one behavioral trainer that will teach you the tools to correct him properly.

You own a dog that, if not handled correctly and strongly, could cause some real damage if this behavior is not nipped in the bud. Thank you for being responsible enough to recognize this behavior and doing something about it.

[mzbogart]

He isn't socialized with children, My husband and I don't have any and we are in the military and by the time we made friends that came to our house he was too big and rough to be around them. Up until now, he was just too big to play with children now, I am just afraid to let him around them. He confuses me sometime. He listens pretty well, but I think the problem is that HE is the boss not me and I tried to work with him and he doesn't seem to get it. I dunno, but I will check around to see if there is one-on-one training. Thanks

[BitsyNaceyDog]

Welcome to Pet Talk! Are you related to Cathy (http://petoftheday.com/talk/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=5003)?

If I were you I would defiantly get him into a training class. He needs to learn that your the boss. It will also be fun for him and he will get more socialized with both dogs and people. Good luck!

[2dog1cat]

I guess he isn't socialized around other dogs then. Moving around a lot would be hard on him as well. That's probably part of the problem.

He definately needs to know YOU are the boss, not him. Start using NILIF (nothing in life is free) on him immediately, while you are waiting to find a trainer. That means he earns everything, from his food to going outside to getting pets. He has to do something, like sitting, laying down ANY command will do, he just has to earn everything. It establishes the fact that YOU are boss and his ranking in the pack.

Also, if he is allowed on the bed or furniture, that stops now. He has to learn his place.

It takes time and won't work overnight, but this will work.

Good luck, keep us posted and welcome to PT.

[Becki]

I will second NILIF as well as obedience training. If you call local vets, they might be able to refer you to reputable trainers in your area.

[mzbogart]

How do you do the NILIF?

[bckrazy]

Originally posted by mzbogart
How do you do the NILIF?

Like she said, he has to earn everything, hence the name. Do a Google search on 'Nothing In Life Is Free dog training'... he has to sit and wait before he eats, he has to sit and wait before he gets his leash on or off, he has to sit and wait before he walks through a door (and he always walks through doorways behind you), he has to sit and wait for treats, petting, attention, everything! You can switch sit with down if you want. Just clearly establish that everything he gets comes from you, and you are the leaders. Have both you and your husband do this ALL the time, you have to be strict about it. I also encourage you to teach him to "watch" you, and heel at all times on walks to establish leadership again.

Most of all, you definitely, definitely, NEED a behaviorist! This kind of behavior is very serious and can put both your dog and other people/dogs in huge danger. He will also be judged very harshly because he is a pitty, in the first place. What is his background? Did you rescue or do you know the breeders, and when did you adopt/buy him? Were his parents fighting dogs/poorly bred/etc? Is he neutered? How have you socialized him... how often do you expose him to outside people, dogs, and kids? Socialization is sooo key to raising a well-adjusted dog, and if he wasn't introduced to other dogs and kids since he was a puppy it'll make this whole training process much harder. The fact that he challenged a little girl that was doing nothing is not a good thing, at all. Please see a reputable dog behaviorist, you'll need a lot more than advice from internet message boards :p.. he's still a puppy, and at 9 months old dogs are just barely starting to show how their true adult personality will be. This REALLY needs to be nipped in the bud, and even if you don't have kids, he will be around kids for his entire life and who knows if you'll decide to have children 10 years from now? He really needs to be socialized in a positive way with other dogs and kids now, with the guidance of a professional trainer.

[Bogey]

Is your dog neutered? If not, I would recommend doing so. This will eleviate some of his dominance issues - along with TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING! Good luck! :)

[mzbogart]

I am getting him neutered, I figured that would help. Then I talked to a trainer at petsmart who said that one on one sessions would do well for him. then I could be trained on how to train him :) and I would know what to do and that stuff. But I have been doing the NILIF thing and it seems to be making some slow progress. The worst thing he does is when you run he chases and jumps up and bites. this probably wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't 70lbs! So I have been running him, like I'll put him on a leash and make him run beside me. it seems to work for me but only me. if anyone else runs he chases and bites. I don't understand. It is not aggressive biting he is only playing but in reality he is way too big to play like that. not to mention the fact that playing or not, he still has big teeth!! and children don't know not to run ya know? I know that he isn't "problem dog" but he has issues that I need to resolve ;) thanks guys

[2dog1cat]

NILIF doesn't work overnight. It takes time and your dog will probably test you to the limit.

Think of it as a spoiled child always getting his way. You've seen them in the stores. "Mom, can I have this" "No" and it goes on and on and on and on with the child gettin louder and more undisciplined until finally the mother gives in.

This teaches the child that eventually, mom gives in.

It is the same principal with your dog.

It will work!!! I've seen it work with my Misty. Certain things were quick, others have taken months.

Don't give up and you'll have a beautifully trained dog to show for it.

[HollywoodNVegas]

Hello,

As an obedience instructor and canine behaviorist, I would like to offer some advice on finding the RIGHT behaviorist to work with in your area. It looks as though you are on a good path and he definitely needs to go through private training. It is a good start beginning the "Nothing In Life Is Free" program.

First off, talk to your vet and reputable breeders. You can even talk to other dog owners. Ask if they know any trainers or behaviorists that can help you.

BEFORE you commit to one instructor, sit down and talk to them. This can either be a during an initial consult or on the side. You want to get to know their "specialty" in training. Some trainers are more devoted to certain breeds, methods, and behavioral issues. Try to talk to more than one trainer, too.

While pet store obedience instructors are usually very credible, some are not. And I will say this when looking into ANY training, try to make sure they are confident with what they are talking about. If they are not confident, generally you will not be comfortable. Also, inquire on their training experience, not just who their certified through. Some of the best instructors I have worked with are self-educated. They can be unbeatable and their knowledge priceless.

Your dog's behavior and well-being is not something you want to mess with. If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

[Pit Chick]

Unfortunately with Pits, animal aggression is in their nature and no amount of training will change that, but it can be controlled through training. (When he's around other dogs, get his attention with a treat and make him sit, focusing on you until the other dog passes, then give him the treat.) However, human aggression is not acceptable in either of his breeds, but I can see how he could confuse a child at his eye level as another dog through the door, but it is still cause for concern and needs to be evaluated by a behaviorist. Running kids are triggering his prey drive, but he needs to learn that putting his mouth on them while they are playing and chasing with him is unacceptable. Tell the kids to instantly stop running when he puts his mouth on them. He'll learn that by putting his mouth on them, the game is over and the chase stops which means the fun stops. The reason he doesn't bite you when you take him running is because he knows you aren't running away from him, you're running with him.

Does he live outside most of the time or is he inside/outside?

[mzbogart]

He grew up inside but my husband is overseas so I came back to stay with my parents so he was kicked outside. I dunno what to do at all now, I got him into the one-on-one sessions at pet smart. The instructer has a pit/boxer and that gave me some confidance in her. that starts friday. and today my pit and my german shepard gang up on my mons and dads dog and kill her. It's horrible. It seemed like just when there was a solution to the problem I get kicked in the face. I dunno what to do, and I dunno why they did it. We've been here since may. They were accustomed to each other now, my pit even played with the other dog. ( my parents dog is a small dog, so it didn't take a whole lot but still....) I dunno, should I still take him to the trainer at petsmart? I'm at a loss. The only thing that I can think of is that my shepard just had pups, so she may have felt threatened by the other dog and once she jumped her my pit felt like it too. It always seems like she is the ringleader, ya know? like she says "Hey poot lets get her" and poot say "yeah yeah yeah" I dunno thats all I can say is that I dunno, I thought I had a bit more time to catch it

[bckrazy]

whoa. I'm sorry, but this all sounds like a very, very bad situation for ALL of the dogs involved. First of all, WHY did you breed your German Shepherd? Is she a trained working dog, registered, health tested, and an impeccable example of her breed? If not, PLEASE spay her after her pups are weaned! Has she been nursing and caring for her pups outside? If that is true, heck yeah she will attack any dog that is allowed to run up to her and her puppies. She needs to be inside, with lots of attentions and nurturing going towards her and her newborn puppies :(

I'm not at all suprised that your two large, high-drive dogs killed your parents small dog. They have something called prey drive, which obviously hasn't been controlled or supervised. GSD's and Pitties are two of the most notorious breeds for killing small animals, because of they're instincts not because they're vicious. My advice right now, especially since your husband is gone, you're dealing with this all alone, your parents seem to dislike your dogs, and you are a complete beginner, is to definitely search for a reputable rescue group that will take at least one of your dogs. The German Shepherd and her puppies NEED a stable home that will keep them indoors, do all of the necessary shots and socialization that those pups will need, and place them in exceptionally screened homes. There are MANY great GSD rescues in the country and I'm sure some in your area that will gladly place her and her pups in a caring foster home :( please, do consider that for your dogs sake. As for the Pittie, he has very high drive and it sounds like he needs a lot of expert attention. You sound overwhelmed and almost like you're thinking of putting him to sleep :( I really hope not. Please also look for a rescue that will take him in and get in touch with an experienced, reputable behaviorist.

This is VERY serious! Dogs who kill other domestic animals, if reported to Animal Control, are noted as Dangerous Dogs. If they kill another domestic animal, or even attack one, they WILL be put to sleep. Seriously, do not allow your dogs unsupervised with any vulnerable animals or small children until you see a behaviorist.

[mzbogart]

I asked for advice not judgement. You really don't know what all is going on. first of all I did NOt breed my two dogs, it happened irresponsible? yes but it happened. I'm not going to give my dogs to rescues, that to me seems even more irresponsible, I will do all that I can to rehabilitate them. That means finding someone who will help me not judge what has been done. If I did put my pit in a rescue do you honestly think that he will be alive the next day? People don't like pit bulls. and I love mine more than anything, so I am going to help him. not just pawn him off on someone else. I chose him and it is my responsiblility to fix the problems that I made when he was a puppy.

[pnance]

I'm so sorry to hear about your parents dog. I agree with previous posts in that you are probably dealing with a pits animal aggression plus a stong prey drive, throw the fact that you've got puppies in and you've got a nightmare on your hands.:eek: I would recommend not allowing anyone unknown unsupervised near the pups/parents until the pups are found new homes. I'd definately keep any animals and children completely away as long as the pups are there. When there are pups involved even the gentlest dogs can be aggressive if they think the pups are in danger. I'd definately stick with your original plan to neuter him and probably spay the female if you can. Even if he's neutered he may be more aggressive when she's in heat. As posted previously make sure he knows your the boss, NILIF is a great starting point that doesn't cost any $$ to do. If possible ask your vet for the name of a good behaviourist/trainer in your area that handles dog aggression. They can evaluate your dog and give you some ideas based on your dogs personality. I agree one on one training is good to establish basic and teach him whose boss, but since he's animal aggressive I don't agree that, that should be the only training which is why I'm not sure Petsmart is your best option. The trainer I took Hunter to had 6 one on one sessions, plus they have group refresher courses once a month for as long as you want. They can not only socialize, but work on the skills they learned at the one on one in a social setting. If at all possible I'd work on getting him neutered and into training soon before the problems get worse.

[Pit Chick]

Him being forced to live outside explains a lot. He lives outside by his own rules so why should he listen to you when you're just a visitor to his territory? I know it's not your fault he has to live out there, I'm just making an observation about his dominance issues. Bully breeds left to themselves will test their owners to see what they can get away with and by not living in the house he has no structure or guidance from you and he's managed to bully his way to the top of the pack. The Bully and GSD can't be blamed for killing your parents' dog since they are the ones that forced them to live outside. THEY set the dogs up for failure. The wise thing to do would be trying to convince your parents to let the dogs live inside before they have a liability on their hands. A GSD taking care of pups and an unaltered AB/PB outside is just an accident waiting to happen and neither one of these breeds needs that right now. Do persue the training though and I hope it helps.

[bckrazy]

I'm not judging you at all. I'm giving advice ~ because you asked for it :)... I feel very bad for your situation, you're husband is gone atm and your parents have banished your dogs to the backyard. BUT, you should really want whats best for your dogs, and especially what is best for a GSD trying to mother infant puppies is to be inside of a secure, attentive home! Rescues do not euthanize dogs, unless they are beyond hope. Your dogs dont sound like they're beyond hope, they sound like they dont get much of any training or attention.

The reason I suggested rescue is not because I'm judging you, its because you ended your post with "I thought I had a bit more time to catch it"... to me, that sounded like you were considering euthanizing him or giving him away. Rescues will place him in a foster home and train him. At this point, honestly, you need to think about what's best for the dogs ~ living outside, becoming territorial over their yard and harming people/animals, breeding with each other, driving you nuts ~ or, in an experienced home with lots of time/safety to give them. Since you're keeping them, you definitely need to keep your yard secure from all children/people/animals... my advice would be to spend ALL of the available time you have with your dogs, training, playing, and just getting them used to having people around them. Try to make a deal with your parents ~ maybe, ask if your GSD and her puppies can come inside and stay in your room, a bathroom or a laundryroom at night. Also ask if your Pitty boy can sleep in a crate inside at night, or spend time with you in the living room or your bedroom for a few hours a day. I really hope the Mommy has a doghouse or shelter of some sort to get to during the day even, puppies cannot tolerate extreme heat or cold at all and they could be severely affected by being outside 24/7 :( they should be your main concern right now. Puppies need constant handling and socialization by people while they're young -- or, THEY could end up with aggression and fear problems as adults :( and you dont want that! Introduce them to as many people, children, and animals as possible in this crucial time, and please consider waiting until they're at least 8 weeks to sell them. I really, really hope you find good homes for her puppies (screening and getting to know the new owners is very important!) and sell them on a contract (including the new owners must spay/neuter, care for the puppies, and tell you first if they need to rehome them).

[mzbogart]

hey guys, I just wanted ya'll to know the update. I took my pittie to a trainer and he has been doing really well, he has been catching on very quickly and he has been obeying alot better. My shepard and her babies are doing good too, they are well fed and opening their eyes and trying to stand all the way up. its cute! after talking to the trainer, I'm thinking that my shepard is the one who did all they other stuff becuase of her hormones and her prey drive. I'm not saying that my pittie had nothing to do with it but she was the main reason. and I know her and I think it had a lot to do with her new babies. as much as I would love to have my babies inside this is not my house. so I hooked up fans and pretty good shelter for the babies they stayed cool.