re: I was crying, the whole story.

[Suki Wingy]

Ok, so Niño’s been acting differently/weirdly lately. This is a re type of a really long lost post.
NOTE: to put emotions to the dialogue, I will list them before a person speaks then use a:.
I have been taking Niño around town and tying him up outside of stores for the past three or four years, but I think I will have to stop. Sometimes, Niño does something really weird at oncoming bikers, rollerbladers, etc. He gets really exited, crouches down, then spring up and out barking and then pulls back to me. His bark can be really scary, deep throated and rolling, thunderous, with a sort or “pull-back� inhale that sounds like a growl, but that is his normal bark. I was at Walgreen’s yesterday and Niño was tied out in the front sort of by the door. I was in a horrible mood, and then an employee came walking up to me, here is our discussion to the bet of my memory.
unsure: “Um, is that your dog out there?�
fed up: “Yes, he is my dog.�
Stupidly: “Well, he just tried to attack someone and—“
:mad: frustrated at him: “You mean bark, because he doesn’t attack, he barks sometimes, not tied up though, because—�
no emotion: “Well, he just did it for no reason and it sounded like an attack, and—“
REALLY :mad: : “That’s his regular bark!�
(no real emotion detectable): “Yeah, they just rode by on a bike [Niño was probably sleeping] and he jumped up and—�
“Ok, ok, ok�
“Well, I just wanted to let you know that if he ever attacks someone again, you could—�
“Go away. Shut up.� (yes, I actually said that)
As I was headed to the checkout to check on him and buy him a blue octopus toy, I heard his bark again, just twice. I ran to the door and no one was there, I showed him the octopus and started to turn to the checkout when a father and his two small girls came up, Niño likes small girls but I thought I’d go out anyway, so I dropped the octopus and walked over to him. He was fine with the girls, but once they were away, the dad leaned a tiny bit over, from about 3 yards away and said in a sweet dog tone, “hi� and Niño barked again, just bark this time.
He loves my stepdad, but I am thinking this could be fear of other men because my uncle got mad at Niño for eating the whiffle balls that I had been playing catch with him with for the past two weeks. We explained they were his, and then my stepdad came out and said they really shouldn’t have been his, shame on me for giving them to him, but my uncle picked them up and let my cousin hit them off of a tee. Niño chased them, but brought them back and my uncle got really mad. This was the exact game I had been playing with poor Niño! )except with a raquetball racket) so my uncle chased him around with a bat!!! He ever bopped him on the but and nose with it until my started screaming at him, (louder than I had been) and took Pobre Niño into my room. :mad:
Back to the yesterday, he lunged and barked to a scooterest and a walker WHILE IN MY ARMS!!!! I was crying, something the back of my mind (although I didn’t realize it until now) linked this behaviour to the main reason that my parents gave Layla away. In my opinion, the worst and hardest dog behaviour problem to deal/live with, FEARBITING! Also, at the library, a librarian saw me walking up to Niño and told me she scolded several 10 to12 year old or so boys for teasing him. They told her off for telling them what they can and can’t do, then they told her that they all had dogs, so this behaviour was all of the sudden acceptable. :mad: I don’t know how they were teasing him, probably riding their bikes up to him fast and quickly pulling away. :mad: :rolleyes:
Does anyone have any idea as to what is causing this behaviour and maybe how to fix it? I might have to use my own saved money that I was saving for the next 3 years for a show dog or horse or travel on a private behaviourest evaluation.
(sorry, that was more than a page in word)

[bckrazy]

:( OMG.. that must've been so scary for you. I'm really sorry!! To me atleast, it does not sound like Nino is a threat. He's probably suffering from leash/tied-up anxiety... you know, how they say dogs that spend their life tied up become very agressive? Nino being tied up in public places, unable to run away from fearful things and unable to get protection/reassurance from you, is a much smaller version of the aggression of dogs that are *always* tied up. Personally, I would *never* tie my dog up in a public place for any period of time... because, these days, people suck. People are stupid, cruel, and reckless toward animals everywhere.. especially dumb kids :(.

It sounds like Nino is scared and frustrated because he can't get AWAY from these dumb people, and you're nowhere in sight. Maybe just try taking him to town with you when some one is there to hold his leash and walk around with him while you're in the store, or just take him to pet-friendly stores (Pet Store, Feed Store, hardware store, etc). To get him accustomed to bikes going by, you should desensitize him to Bikes/scooters/skateboards. Slowly, after desesitizing to a stationary bike, walk him in areas where you know bikes are going by. Keep a far distance from the bike and put him in a sit-stay and give him treats and praise for not paying attention to the bikes.... then, slowly get closer and closer to the bike-riders going by until he's calm and focused on you while bikes are going right past you. Obedience class might be helpful. I don't know if I'd totally recommend a behaviorist right now, it depends on how he acts WITHOUT being tied up and alone. He was probably very scared and just telling the bikers/people to leave him alone :(

[Suki Wingy]

Thanks, I will try that. He is ok with me skateboarding or rollerblading, which I do and I do take him to petsmart a lot ( I'm taking him today) but we can't go that ofter because it is 3 miles away and on bussy streets.

[K9soul]

I'm sorry you had to have such a frightening and sad experience with Nino. Bckrazy's post was a good one and pretty much gives the explanation that I would feel is most likely. The other thing is that it only takes one time of someone frightening him or teasing him while tied up to trigger that 'fight or flight' instinct (of course while tied up, he can't take the flight option) and it can suddenly become something he does every time.

Think of it like this, if someone had a bad accident at a certain intersection, they will probably always be nervous and anxious when they go through that intersection again. Also, when the person/biker/boarder goes away after he does it, it reinforces that as a solution. He learns that lunging/barking means the scary person goes away. I think you should definitely end the tying and leaving, especially since now it has become a situation of high anxiety for him and he is acting increasingly alarmed, which transfers into increasingly aggressive behavior. The first step in all this is to take away/stop the scenario that's causing the behavior to occur, and then like bckrazy said, work gently and slowly on desensitizing to things that cause alarm.

If he's fine around your bike and so on, perhaps try to take him to an area where bikes go by at a distance first, and slip him a yummy treat like cheese or hotdog bits when a bike goes by until he's completely oblivious to bikes and people going by. I would stress that it's important to start out farther away from them where he feels fairly safe. Very gradually, over days/weeks even, inch a bit closer and continue doing this until you reach the point that a bike can pass by him pretty close with him being relaxed. If at some point he suddenly shows alarm and barks, it's VERY important not to give him any attention for it, simply take his leash and walk him away and let him calm down on his own. If you get stressed out or hug him or scold him or do anything like that, it will reinforce the behavior. Try as much as possible to stay calm and confident, he will pick up on your emotions too.

If you can get him to the point where he is calm when bikes and skateboarders etc go by him, that is great, but I still would not leave him tied outside anymore because it places him and you in a situation where you are not in control, and it only takes one idiot or jerk to go by and traumatize him to the point where he's back at square one, or maybe even worse than before.

I wish you the best, and give that sweet boy a hug from me :).

[lv4dogs]

They said what I would of said. Sorry I can't be of more help. I am wishing you good luck though!!!

[flamepony12]

I'm so sorry. :( I don't really have much to say, but good luck with him. He's not a bad dog, and we know that. :(

[dukedogsmom]

I would never leave my dog unattended like that. Besides the fact that someone could take him. You don't know what's happening while you're gone so it's probably not just his behavior, it's the people around him while you're gone. If you want to socialize him, walk him downtown and let people interact with him.

[chocolatepuppy]

I agree with dukedogsmom, no way in a million years would I leave my dogs tied anywhere! You're lucky you still have your dog.

[wolf_Q]

I really think that is a very bad idea to ever leave a dog tied up alone like that. If I did that Nebo would freak out so bad he'd pull out of his collar and run off....just not a good situation to be putting your dog in. You can't trust strangers around your dog so it's best to not leave him in a situation like that.

[Kfamr]

Ditto to the last 3 posts.

It's just not a good place to put your beloved pet in.

[k9krazee]

I agree with what everyone has said. I know you had good intentions taking him with you but it is just not fair to him or you.

[LorraineO]

Originally posted by dukedogsmom
I would never leave my dog unattended like that. Besides the fact that someone could take him. You don't know what's happening while you're gone

I have to agree,,,, i would NEVER EVER leave my dog tied up outside and unattended,, one day youll come back to NO DOG! Did you ever think that somebody might steal him? the horror stories I could tell you,,,,
If I cant take my animal with me to where I am going,, they dont come,, they stay at home where they are safe from predators,,,,, human and animal alike,,, its a nasty world out there for a being who cant yell for help or defend themselves....

[Vette]

I agree... lord knows what goes on while you are in the stores.

plus someone just might give him something very unpleasent to eat.. and youd have no idea of knowing about it till it might be too late.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

I agreed - I would rather leave my Tobey at home where he is surrounded by familiar things that risk leaving him unattended outside a shop....sometimes you have to accept that your best friend can't come everywhere with you for his own safety and well being

[Suki Wingy]

I know, He has always been pretty wary of strangers though. Yesterday there was music and lots of bikes/ people at the park and so we went and stayed towards the outside and he did awsome.

[LorraineO]

Originally posted by Suki Wingy
I know, He has always been pretty wary of strangers though. Yesterday there was music and lots of bikes/ people at the park and so we went and stayed towards the outside and he did awsome.

Suki... you just dont seem awfully concerned about the safety of your dog... PLEASE dont ever leave him unattended again,,,, one day you will be sorry you did..... just because he is wary isnt safe guarding him from harm..... Wake up and smell the coffee before its too late!!!! We dont wanna see a post in rescue or worse even,,, pet memorial!!!!!

[KYS]

When I was 18, (many moons ago)
I use to tie up my dog outside of the store.
I took my dog everywhere with me.
One day a worker came up to me, and
told me, I should never leave my dog tied out because
someone might steal her.
I was very naive and extremely honest.
It never occured to me back than that anybody would do something like that.
I never left my dog unnattended again.

Possible reason's:
1:As for the roller blades/bike riders. Dogs also have
a prey drive and like moving objects.
2: Not all dogs like strangers.
Think of it. Why do people think that dogs love
everybody? Do you like every stranger you meet?
Or like you suggested something/someone from the past
could have scared your baby.

What ever the reason's.
Give yourself and your pup a big hug and
think about doing what is best for your best
furry friend. :)

[Shelteez2]

I was reading a semi annual pamphlet that is put out by our local spca and it was listing some new and some not so known by-laws for our city.
It brought up the fact that dogs tied up outside of stores and such are considered to be "at large" and are treated as such if they do anything....whether it be actually biting someone, or jumping up and scaring someone. Here it could mean up to a $1000 fine.

I agree with everyone and suggest not tying him up outside unattended anymore. You may trust your dog, but you cannot trust the strangers walking by your dog.

[luvofallhorses]

Ditto what everyone else said. I would never ever leave my dogs unattended like that. :(

[cyber-sibes]

Poor Nino! You've gotten some good advice here on some behavioral things. I personally worry about someone stealing my beautiful babies too - not so much now that we're in the country, but the kennel is still out of sight of anyone passing by. There really are people out there that WILL steal your dog - my friend lost his shephard that way and my other friends had BOTH their golden retrievers stolen.

[Suki Wingy]

Originally posted by Suki Wingy
I know, He has always been pretty wary of strangers though. Yesterday there was music and lots of bikes/ people at the park and so we went and stayed towards the outside and he did awsome.

Originally posted by LorraineO
Suki... you just dont seem awfully concerned about the safety of your dog... PLEASE dont ever leave him unattended again,,,, one day you will be sorry you did..... just because he is wary isnt safe guarding him from harm..... Wake up and smell the coffee before its too late!!!! We dont wanna see a post in rescue or worse even,,, pet memorial!!!!!

Thanks,,,,,,A LOT! Your post kind of upset me. If you couldn't tell from my post, I had him at a focused Fuss (heal, I use german commands when I really want him to listen because the language is different from normal talking, and it seems to work much better.) the whole time, and we stayed to the very outside of it, even though he loves these things. I think the very first post says that I am never going to do this again, I already realized it. I see now,I want to thank everyone who gave me advice about what could be causing his reactions. It became very clear with your help, I was just to upset that night.

[Suki Wingy]

Originally posted by Suki Wingy in the first post
I have been taking Niño around town and tying him up outside of stores for the past three or four years, but I think I will have to stop.
What I meant was I will stop. I thought I had said this, but this is a re-type of the original that I had lost, so I was going kind of quick. No matter how hard I try to explain the bond I have with this dog, people don't seem to get it, what more can I say but that he is my heart dog, my soul my reason for living, we share emotions and almost thoughts.

[LorraineO]

nice to hear youre gonna stop,,, .. consider yourself lucky nothing happened to him.

[K9soul]

It's obvious to me that Nino is your whole world and that you would never deliberately place him in a situation where you felt there was a chance he could come to harm. When I was young and first had my collie, Cody, I lived in a very small town and had him trained to down-stay perfectly. Sometimes I'd walk him with me to the dime store and have him down-stay outside and go in to get a candy bar. The whole front of the store was a big window so I could always see him. At the time, I perceived no danger and no one ever bothered him, but looking back it's scary to think what could have happened had something startled him and he ran out in the street or someone do him some harm before I could stop it. Of course I did come to realize and think of those possibilities, and stopped. I was young, trusting, and naive, and just wanted my boy to be with me all the time. Some might have concluded I didn't care enough about him because I placed him in a situation that could have been dangerous. Those people do not know my heart though. I would have been destroyed had anything happened to him. At the time, I simply did not perceive it to be a dangerous situation.

Suki was obviously very upset and alarmed by what happened and came here to pour out her heart and hope for some explanations and advice. I think it's wrong to pile scolding and judgment onto her when she already realizes the error in what she was doing, and VERY hurtful to suggest she doesn't care about her dog. We've all been judged and looked down on for our actions at some point, whether we were at fault or not, and know how bad that hurts. Please try to remember that before pointing fingers at someone obviously working to correct a mistake.

[luvofallhorses]

Suki,

I am sorry if my reply offended you :( I don't think Nino's a bad dog at all. We do know that you love him. Again I am really sorry :(

[Buddy Blaze Lover]

Oh Eva, I know how you feel!!!:( I can't take Blaze out in public without his attempt to bite someone!!:(:(:( And don't consider yourself a bad person because you left Nino outside that store...I would have done the same thing, you're NOT a bad mom, really!!! I hope things work out.

[Suki Wingy]

Thanks, it has been going pretty well so far, I go onto the grass and have him sit and look at me when a bike passes, and he does nothing.

[LauraT7]

"he is my heart dog, my soul my reason for living, we share emotions and almost thoughts"

Suki - I DO understand - my Tristan was the same for us, and like you, we took him 'almost' everywhere with us. Stores, camping with scouts, picnics - heck, he even went to church with us sometimes! The only times wer left him behind was in places it was posted 'no dogs', or times it would not be safe or we would have to leave him - like the car would get too hot, or the errands too long to guaranty that he could stay WITH us. If i couldn't leave him in the car, or with a friend, even to go to the bathroom - he stayed home. ( and he didn't stay home much!LOL)

However, there were some big differences between my dog and Nino -

First, Tristan was the most self -confident, secure, assertive, but non- agressive dog I had ever met. NOTHING bothered him. Noises, machinery, people, other animals - he was totally unflappable. Alert and interested, yes - but he never 'reacted' in a nervous or agressive way to anything. We once took him to a crowded pet show at Chicago's Arlington Park Racetrack, to work a rescue booth for GRROW. Thousands of people, animals, strollers, etc. and he laid down in the aisle in front of our booth and dozed while kids rubbed his tummy and strange dogs all around. Gawking bystanders would walk by, and accidentally kick him - not looking where they were going, and he'd just raise his head and look at them with a puzzled look. He never barked, (except at home while playing) and only once did I see him put another dog in his place ( when the dog tried to mount him - we were visiting a friend who had a 'pack' of 8 dogs, and Tristan got ahead of Zeus in line for treats. Tristan did a quick growl and snap, warning Zeus to 'back off' and the pecking order was quickly re- established without even ruffling anyones fur! For the rest of the day, Tristan and Zeus played like long-lost siblings and even shared food and toys!)

Tristan was utterly trustworthy in every situation. I had total confidence that he would never, even accidentally, hurt or frighten anyone.

You have said that Nino shows nervousness in certain situations. Any time a dog feels insecure in any way, opens the possibility of unpredictable behavior in those situations.

While I trusted Tristan utterly and totally, I NEVER trust other people.

I have seen and heard so many stupid things people do around dogs - I would never leave my dog alone with even the most well- intentioned stranger! and by leaving Nino outside, alone - especially where you can't see him and where other people can get close to him, is asking for trouble.

I know how devasted you would be, if someone teased Nino into biting them - even if it was deserved - and he was impounded and destroyed. It IS possible!

when I first got Tristan - he had been neglected, though not intentionally abused. Tristan was a total love -bug, and he had been left alone too much. When we got him he was 'mouthy' - he would take your hands and gently chew them like toys, or grab and pull on them. he also jumped up on people, to get their attention and get petted. In the first weeks of having him - I was over at my mom's condo, on her porch, when her neighbor came over to pick up his kids that my mom was babysitting. the man is nice enough, and a good neighbor to my mom - but honestly, he's a real idiot when it comes to animals. He started playing with Tristan, kinda slapping him and cuffing him around the face, playing rough and teasing. Tristan was on a leash at my side, and I asked him to stop. Tristan was getting excited and biting at the guys hands. i got between them and explained that I was trying to train Tristan OUT of play biting and jumping. the guy's response? "Oh, he likes it, he's having fun!" as he kept trying to tease my dog. I got really angry with him, told him to keep his hands to himself and stay away from my dog, and I took Tristan and put him in the car away from the neighbor. A few weeks later, this same guy called the police on another neighbor, because their dog knocked over one of his kids. Not 'bit', not 'scratched', but 'knocked over' the 7 yr old kid by jumping up on him and trying to kiss the kid! ( and I had seen this man do the same rough play with that lab, that he tried on my Tristan.)

People can be really stupid!

As for Tristan, I didn't really have to 'train' him not to mouth and jump. The simple act of including him in all our activities made him secure enough, loved enough, that in a few short months the jumping and mouthing vanished. He got enough love without having to beg for it!

I think sometimes, that as true dog lovers - we sometimes think of our dogs as 4 footed, furry people. We LOVE them so much! But as much as you love Nino - and I know you do - I've seen it shine thru in so many of your posts - you can't expect him to act with the reason of a human - and refrain from acting like a dog. You also have to protect him from all those stupid idiots out there, who DON'T love him, and think nothing of his feelings.

He looks to you to keep him safe and loved, always. think of it this way - would you leave a toddler in his stroller in the same places you left Nino? Nino has no more ability to control those situations than a toddler does. so I'm glad you realize that it's not a good thing to do with him anymore!

Nino is such a sweetie! and lucky to have an owner who wants to be with him so much!

laura

[Suki Wingy]

Thank you for sharing Tristan's story with me:)