breeding

[beeniesmom]

I would possibly like to breed Beenie (boston terrier) sometime next year. I'd appreciate any advice from you all as to what to expect, what to do first etc... where to find a studd etc.
I have bred a poodle before, in Italy, but I know that it is very different with Boston terriers.
Thanks for any info.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Why do you want to breed? What makes Beenie worthy of breeding? How old is she? Did you get Beenie from a breeder? Does she have all of the proper health certificates? Breeding takes a LOT of time and money. The only reason anyone should breed is to improve the breed.

I don't mean to sound rude, but I honestly think you need to do some serious research and think long and hard before you decide to breed.

[beeniesmom]

I know. It does seem selfish.
My husband and I have been thinking a lot about it.
She is a good quality boston, with papers, AKC registered, health certificate and all that mess. She respects the "standards" for her breed in full. We did get her from a breeder (after having looked 6 months for a boston in many shelters without any luck). We want to breed her for the family. I want tp keep at least 2 of her pups and my husbands brothers would like one as well. Any pups that remain will stay with me until I can place them in a loving home.... if not, I keep them.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

I'm assuming the breeder you purchased her from was a Responsible Breeder and not a Backyard Breeder? Do you still keep in touch with her breeder? Was she sold on any kind of contract? I know Bostons are prone to skin, eye, heart, and breathing problems. All of these issues have been cleared and you have the necessary certificates such as CERF, OFA, etc.? How old is she? Females should not be bred until they are at least two or three years of age. If you are not breeding to soley improve the breed I would suggest that you get her spayed and just enjoy her as a pet. :)

Boston Terriers usually have difficulty whelping litters, and most of the time the puppies have to be delivered by cesarean section.

Hopefully some of the experienced breeders will chime in here and give you some more helpful information.

[dukedogsmom]

With thousdands of homeless animals put to sleep every year, I don't understand why you want to breed. Unless you are a professional, responsible breeder like Sunkist Goldens is. My advice would be to find a good breeder in your area and have your family members buy one if they are so set on that breed.

[luvofallhorses]

Originally posted by dukedogsmom
With thousdands of homeless animals put to sleep every year, I don't understand why you want to breed. Unless you are a professional, responsible breeder like Sunkist Goldens is. My advice would be to find a good breeder in your area and have your family members buy one if they are so set on that breed.

ditto

[beeniesmom]

No, I don't keep in touch with the breeder anymore.

Beenie occasionally has had "itchy feet" and mild skin irritation (usually around the time of her heat) but other than that she's always been in good health.

She is 18 months old. (That's why I said next year). By feb. of next year she will be almost 2 and a half years old.

I am very appreciative and will take your advice seriously:
"I would suggest that you get her spayed and just enjoy her as a pet."

Maybe we'll just adopt from a shelter.... sooner or later another boston will come along. :)

[PJ's Mom]

Originally posted by dukedogsmom
With thousdands of homeless animals put to sleep every year, I don't understand why you want to breed. Unless you are a professional, responsible breeder like Sunkist Goldens is. My advice would be to find a good breeder in your area and have your family members buy one if they are so set on that breed.

I agree.

[luvofallhorses]

Originally posted by beeniesmom
No, I don't keep in touch with the breeder anymore.

Beenie occasionally has had "itchy feet" and mild skin irritation (usually around the time of her heat) but other than that she's always been in good health.

She is 18 months old. (That's why I said next year). By feb. of next year she will be almost 2 and a half years old.

I am very appreciative and will take your advice seriously:
"I would suggest that you get her spayed and just enjoy her as a pet."

Maybe we'll just adopt from a shelter.... sooner or later another boston will come along. :)

There are lots of bostons looking for homes in shelters.

[wolfsoul]

Breeding can be very difficult and expensive, escpecially with Bostons. They usually need C-sections, and C-sections can be very expensive -- most times around $1000. Breeding them can be very dangerous too. I hope you find another Boston to adopt. :) That would be nice.

I don't remember who posted this, but I thought it was a good reprsentation of what goes into breeding:


TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN,


HI. I’M LOOKING TO BREED MY 3-YEAR-OLD PUG, JAKE. HE IS PAPERED, I’M LOOKING TO HAVE HIM FIXED SOON BUT I WOULD LIKE ONE OF HIS NAMESAKE TO CARRY ON HIS NAME. I’M NOT LOOKING FOR MONEY BUT I WOULD LIKE ONE OF THE PUPS. PLEASE GET IN TOUCH WITH ME. MAYBE WE CAN TALK. MAYBE YOU CAN PUT ME IN TOUCH WITH SOMEONE WHO CAN. THANK YOU. GOSSIMER.


Hi, Gossimer:

This proposal sounds intriguing. I'm currently looking for a fawn stud for my BISS Ch Larimar's Stardust CD, CGC (BIS/BISS Ch Larimar's Chip of the Old Block ROM*** x Ch Jill's Win-Chimes of Lil Mite ROM***).

What line is Jake from and what is his linebreeding/inbreeding/coefficient? I apologize; but I'm not familiar with his callname. I'll need to know Jake's CERF, OFA patella luxation and OFA CHD certification numbers, T3 & T4 test results, number of occurrences of hemivertebrae, PDE, and cleft palate through the fifth generation. Just to be on the safe side, I'll need a negative brucellosis and bordetella licensed veterinarian certification from you. It's not a bad idea to get a VetGen phenotyping either.

For the future Get, I'll also need copies of Jake's titles and his AKC and/or CKC registration number(s). I'm especially interested in copies of his PDCA ROM and additional stars awards.

Since there's no stud fee involved, I assume you'll want pick? Dog or b###h? Will you be willing to agree to 1/2 the cesarean if the cause should arise? If the whelps are larger than 6 ounces at parturition, it will be necessary. This seems only fair. Last time I got a good break and it was only $500, but unfortunately that vet retired this year and the new owner has raised everything to almost double! It's hard to find a good pug vet!

Will you be doing a natural or artificial? If artificial, I'll need you to send the fresh chilled or frozen semen Overnight Express Mail. I'll be willing to split the cost; $500 should cover it unless you are on the East Coast, then I'll send $750. Please let me know where to send the check. I think it's only fair that you take care of the semen analysis expense since I will be doing the whelping and training. You should be able to find a Canine Semen Bank and Collection/Storage in your area. Be sure to get at least three straws. The last time I looked into having it done, it was about $900.00--a lot less than before since more and more people are doing it.

If Jake does natural, let me know which airport to ship to (if you are outside of CA). To take care of my dam, I'll need to have an overnight or early, early morning delivery time. Since it's getting warmer now, it's best to plan for you to pick her up after midnight. Even with a cool down mat you never know with these brachceapholoids (I probably spelled that wrong, but you know what I mean! . Be sure to take MC/VISA or cash since the counter-to-counter service does not accept checks.

Let me know after they tie three times and then I will let you know the return arrangements. She ovulates late, so she may be two or three weeks at your house. I'll get her to you by the tenth day just to be sure we don't miss it or she absorbs.

Double check with your homeowner’s insurance plan to see that it covers visiting matrons in case anything should happen. A BISS CH/CD/CGC should be covered for a minimum of $5K.

Since her cycle is so late, you'll need to purchase Solid Gold. I can't send enough in the crate. It generally runs $40 a bag. Be sure to get the Seameal, Pet Tabs Plus, Concept-A-b###h, and Red Raspberry Tea Leaves too. Also, she'll need 500 mg. of Ascorbic Acid, 200 mg. of Tocopherols twice a day with tepid water. Not too hot because she will grow finicky. Be careful not to give her A Palmitate since this can increase the chance of cleft palate and I don't want to have to cull. It's a good idea to give her organically grown-pesticide free calf liver. You'll need to prepare it yourself since she doesn't like pre-packaged brands. It's best to buy it in 50-lb. bulk and boil it all at once. Be sure to keep skimming the foam off every 15 minutes because she doesn't like it slimy. Bake it afterwards until it's a good baiting consistency then vacuum-pack and freeze it. The whole process should only take about 12 hours. In a hurry you could get it down to 10 hours.

You won't have to worry about splitting the vaccination costs for the litter. I give my own now and that will save you half of the normal $480 or so. You can help out with the title rebates if you'd like.

Your pick should be ready at 12 weeks. I'll let you know the whelping date so that you can plan the transportation. I assume you already own a Sherpa? That's the best way to go if you're out of CA, otherwise you can drive to pick it up--just bring along a Vari-Kennel.

What are your club affiliates? I don't recognize your email address off the top of my head. I'm DPCA, PDCA, and NCPC. If you're not PDCA, we can work on getting you your two letters of recommendation.

Well, let me know when you have all the necessary paperwork done. Also, please send me Jake's AKC certified 4 generation with coat colors and his best win shots so that I can make colored copies.


Warmest Regards,

Danielle M. Campi


And here's something I made up quite some time ago when someone asked if a breeder could make money off of 8 jack russel pups for $875 each:


Okay, let's see. $875 times 8 is $7000. Both dam and sire should be health certitified before breeding.
Hips - $30
Elbows - $25
Thyroid - $15
Heart - $15
Patellar Luxation - $15
Deafness- $15
Eyes - $17.50 (because initial registration)
That is $132.50 .

Tests for Brucellosis (disease of reproductive tract) and Bortedella (STD) - $60

$40 to submit DNA test results to AKC. DNA test - $15

Solid Gold vitamins for bitch - $40

Stud fee for a Champion dog can be as high as $2000. Let's say $1000.

Bitch must go to the vet at around day 30. Alot of breeders like to use an ultrasound--another $200.

$1000 should be put aside for an emergency C-section.

At around day 50, you have to take days off of work to be around the expentant mother 24/7 to make sure nothing goes wrong. If you have a 9-5 job and an hourly wage of $15, you will lose around $1500. Then you have to stay with the dog and puppies until the puppies go home. 8 weeks - $6720

At 3 days, the puppies will need their first vet check, and the mother will need a check too. Each puppy will get dewclaws removed ($50 per puppy -- for 8 puppies that's $400). Rat terriers have their tails docked ($10.00 per tail, that's $80). Vaccination for eight puppies, $70 each, is $560. Deworming - $400. Puppies may need to be tested for skin problems, coccidia, and parvo -- $1000.

The breeder will need supplies before all of this happens. Whelping box, whelping box heating pad, incubator, weight scale, indoor puppy pen, first aid, emergency supplies, dishes. About $1000.

Food to feed puppies for two weeks - $40.

Registration fees for AKC - $400

Puppy kit to be sent home with new owner - $20 per puppy, $160 for 8 puppies.


I could never breed dogs, too much work for me! :eek:

[lute]

i would HIGHLY suggest you not breed Beenie. i use to work at a humane society and had to hold down 2 bostons while they were PTS because no one adopted them.:(

my friend that shows siberian huskies just bred one of her bitches and it cost over $500 just to get her pregnant!:eek: when the puppies come it's going to cost even more with shots, food, and anything else that may come up. my friend is a professional dog handler and has been showing and breeding siberians for over 20 years.

if you want to breed her just to have another boston....go buy/adopt another boston. it'll be MUCH cheaper then raising a whole litter.

if your breeding to have a pup like your Beenie there is a very slim chance that will happen.

the wise thing to do is spay her and if you want another boston, go adopt/buy another boston. they are out there!

[luvofallhorses]

Originally posted by lute


if you want to breed her just to have another boston....go buy/adopt another boston. it'll be MUCH cheaper then raising a whole litter.

if your breeding to have a pup like your Beenie there is a very slim chance that will happen.

the wise thing to do is spay her and if you want another boston, go adopt/buy another boston. they are out there!

VERY well said!

[IRescue452]

Thanks wolfsoul, I'm gonna use that jack russel post to try to convince my aunt not to breed her chihuahuas. Has anybody ever looked into invitro or test tube insemination for dogs? That way you only get one or two pups instead of a litter. I thought about it once but never looked into it. Just wondering. I agree that you should try to rescue a boston, but it sounds like you'd have good homes picked out before she is bred which is something I wish more people would do beforehand.

[lute]

just another idea. if you want more bostons....FOSTER bostons for a rescue!

i'm gingto be talking with my parents about fostering great danes for a rescue.

[bckrazy]

I LOVE Boston Terriers, and I've done a lot of research on Bostons and breeders. There is an overwhelming number of Backyard Breeders and Puppy Mills that are absolutely *ruining* this awesome breed!! Boston Terriers are popping up in shelters everywhere, I've seen dozens that have severe health problems due to inexperienced and careless people breeding Bostons with luxating patellas, hip dysplasia, allergies, etc! I've also seen and met many abandoned Boston Terriers that were given up because they were from puppy mills and simply had NO social skills with ANYthing. There are tons of Bostons in shelters, there are tons of every breed of dog dying in shelters. Adopting a Boston in need would be WONDERFUL for you to do! Its what I plan to do ;)

Really importantly, the ONLY reason to breed dogs is to improve the breed. Beenie is adorable, but breeder dogs should NOT be "good quality". . they should be EXCELLENT, SHOW quality! They should fit their standard to a tee, passed all temperament and health tests (which will cost you $1000's), have show and working experience, and they should come from nothing but SUPERB lines from a highly reputable breeder. This is the only way to breed dogs that I, or any responsible dog lover, would approve of. Even if Beenie passes all of these standards, are you willing to spend $1000's on an emergency C-section for Beenie? Are you willing to risk her life for that? Boston Terriers are probably one of the TOP dogs that require C-section births (French Bulldogs are #1, and they are *very* similar in structure to Bostons), because the puppies have very large heads when they're born, usually too large for the small dam. Also consider that you will almost definitely lose money with a litter, if you do it correctly. Just testing Beenie for all possible health problems, paying for a high quality stud, raising and possibly(definitely if she gets a C-section!) bottle-feeding the puppies. . and, remember that Bostons are little dogs and almost always have litters of less than 4 puppies. That means, even if you charge $1000+ for each puppy, you will be VERY lucky if you break even!! On top of the money, breeding your dog puts her life at risk, as does keeping her intact (she is at risk for mammory cancer, etc).

Wolfsoul's post is awesome!! SO right :)

[Giselle]

Hi there,

I'm concerned when you say you and your breeder don't keep in touch anymore. In general, a responsible, reputable will initiate contact between buyer and his/herself.

Which brings me to my next question, from WHO did you acquire Beenie from???

Almost all the time, a reputable breeder requires ALL pet dogs to be neutered/spayed. The only dogs that are legally entitled to be left intact are show prospects or working dogs in the case of working, herding, etc. breeds. However, I really don't know if you've ever shown Beenie before. You say she's "respects the standard in full". Quite honestly, both my BYB Peke and NGA Greyhound "respect" the standard, but they're not suitable to be bred. "Respecting" the standard and being an outstanding specimen are two totally different things! With many miniaturized breeds, there is usually no better way to "prove" the dog than through conformation. As such, I HIGHLY recommend you contact your breeder and demand him/her to show you the proper way to handle. If your breeder doesn't know how to do this, then I would suggest finding another breeder and/or spay Beenie. If you really want to breed, find a different breeder and keep in contact with this person. Make it known that you wish to show and eventually breed your dog.

In the meantime, do you have a stacked picture of Beenie? Perhaps we could do a little informal judging of her. Also, when we talk about health testing, we're talking Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA testing), Canine Eye Registration Foundation (CERF testing), and/or PennHip, Optigen, etc.

There was another member who had a Boston Terrier on a different forum. She had not tested her dog via OFA, but she still wanted to breed him. A few weeks later, she tested her dog and surprise surprise! Her dog had luxating patellas and was reuiqred to be fixed. I'm very happy that you're taking this all in so graciously and hope that you continue posting and reading. :)

[LuvGold00]

Originally posted by dukedogsmom
With thousdands of homeless animals put to sleep every year, I don't understand why you want to breed. Unless you are a professional, responsible breeder like Sunkist Goldens is. My advice would be to find a good breeder in your area and have your family members buy one if they are so set on that breed.

Thanks. :D

I agree with everyone, breeding costs way more than you could ever make on selling the offspring. If you are serious about breeding Beenie, why don't you enter her in some shows, or maybe contact another breeder that is active in the show ring, and have them evaluate Beenie, maybe you can even find a mentor.... But I think you'd be best off spaying her and saving some poor little Boston from a shelter. :)

[beeniesmom]

THANK YOU ALL for the great information and opinions you have provided.

I may not breed Beenie after all.
The intention was not lucrative. I did not expect to make money by breeding her. It was just to have a few more Beenies running around the house. I will keep looking in shelters for another Boston for Beenie to play with. We are not in a hurry to find a friend for her. When one pops up, we'll be there for it.

:)

Thank you again. Even if it was tough reading, I respect all your opinions and appreciate you all.

[LKPike]

I don't see how staying in touch with the breeder would help?

We haven't with Jillian's breeder. Theres nothing for her to tell us that we don't already know as we spoke about the dogs she bred and their history before purchasing J.

She knows J was diagnosed with epilepsy and spayed, she was of course very disappointed, she'd retired her show dogs and bitches which is how I got J [pol] on an unlimited contract to show and possibly breed.


J didn't get epilepsy from her mom or dad, fortunatly. But we pretty much already knew that since: talking about the dalmatians her breeder bred before purchasing her.



You just want more cute little bosties floating around the house, then fostering is a wonderful, responsible decision :) But I'd also support your decision to breed as long as you were ready financially and emotionally.

[Suki Wingy]

Some awsome posts! I agree, please spay her, it'll be a lot easyer on her and you.

[Giselle]

That's greyt Beeniesmom! I admire your self control and willingness to learn :)

There are many benefactors to keeping in contact with the original breeder. Especially if the buyer in question is planning to breed. It was also suggested that Beeniesmom should show. If she wished to show her dog, then contact with the original breeder is highly recommended and perhaps essential.

What a lot of people don't realize is that certain lines mature in different time frames or have specific traits that are passed down from generation to generation. Let's just say I was given a show prospect Pekingese. Some Peke lines grow coat MUCH slower than others. If I were given a Peke with a slow growing coat, then the breeder should tell me and this will give me a heads-up on what to expect and how to "glam" the coat to make it more mature-looking (assuming this is no longer a puppy). As well, correct movement is sometimes delayed when a puppy is growing. I've heard of young 6-9 month old pups who move like a pro with the correct rolling gait, whereas other 1-2 year olds still haven't grown into their body yet and are quite "lanky". All these little tidbits will help ensure a quick finish. However, I doubt that most breeders can cover all of this the day the prospective buyer comes to pick the dog up. It takes time to cover all the itty bitty details and that's why I was concerned that Beenie's breeder is not keeping in touch with a dog s/he sold to be legally left intact. To me, the only dogs fit for breeding are working/conformation dogs. Since I can't think of any work specifically geared towards BTs, I would suppose that Beenie was sold as a show prospect and that's why she was allowed to be left intact. I hope this makes sense; I'm not the greytest at explanations :o

Now, if we're talking pet dogs, then I wouldn't expect as much contact between breeder and buyer. Again, kudos to you, Beeniesmom! I agree, again, that you should adopt/foster a BT. Good Luck!