Conflicting decision

[Dixieland Dancer]

I scheduled a vet appointment to have my Dixie spayed on February 12th. Now I am sad and wondering if I'm doing the right thing. This makes no more puppies final. :(

As most of you know I had bred Dixie to a Champion Golden and we had 10 puppies about 9 months ago. One of the pups is my Dusty. I spent close to a year looking for the right Daddy and I enjoyed the experience with all my heart. We spared no expense in making sure we "DID IT RIGHT"! In other words, we did not do it for the money. Actually we lost a little because I even took 4 weeks of "FAMILY LEAVE" to be with the pups when they were 4 weeks old until they went to their new families.

My decision to have her spayed is two parts.
1. I can not have an Intact male and female in the same house.
2. Having a litter took a lot out of Dixie as it does any dog. Since I know I am not planning on keeping another pup I did not want to put her through this again since I still continue to show her in obedience, agility, and field and would have to take more time off with her if she did have another litter.

I know I am rambling but making the appointment sort of made it final. It makes me realize that I won't be raising any more puppies in the near future. I would like to Stud Dusty out after he becomes a Champion if possible but I'm just not sure I'm doing the right thing here. I know I can't get Dusty fixed because I won't be able to show him in conformation then. Only intact males can be show for breed in an AKC sanctioned show.

Thanks for letting me ramble! I just love puppy breath and puppy kisses and puppy everything!

[zippy-kat]

Originally posted by Dixieland Dancer
Having a litter took a lot out of Dixie


This was my reason for voting to spay.

When/if Dusty's pups arrive, maybe you could ask for paternal visiting rights. Puppies are wonderful & cute but remember to consider the health of the mother! (Which, I know you are doing thus, the reason for the poll!)

I'm sure your decision will be carefully thought thru and it will end up being the right one!

Good luck with the decision!
{hugs}

[purrley]

Gosh Dixie - this is a hard thing to do, but I think you'll be doing the right thing by having her spayed in the long run. My female Chihuahua will be getting spayed in a couple months and I even have mixed emotions about that - but I definately don't want her to have puppies, I just don't like the idea of having her tummy cut.
Maybe you can take a trip to the shelter once in a while, hold and smell the puppies to get your puppy breath fix:D :D :D

[ShepherdLover]

I think that you made the right decision to spay her. Although, the puppies have titled parents, I think there are enough puppies in the world already that need homes. That's just my opinion.

[AdoreMyDogs]

Candice,

I don't know what to vote on! I usually NEVER agree with people breeding dogs or cats because of overpopulation...UNLESS the breeder does everything out of love, as opposed to profit, and they have perfect specimens to breed with and you have done EVERYTHING right! I think it does the breed good to have such quality pups added to the gene pool so that is tough. Also, I would LOVE to buy one of your puppies one day :) I want a golden real bad, but I would only buy a golden from a reputable breeder, and from champion and/or titled parents. Ever since I 'met' you through this site and found out how much time and effort you put into those lovely dogs, and learned about all of Dixie's titles and young Dusty already having his CGC, I wanted a pup from you.

You have done everything right in the breeding of Dixie. You have done the golden breed proud.

However, because of what happened to your friends' golden I feel that it may not be worth the risk. It breaks my heart to think of how incredibly devastating that was and that dogs poor owner may regret breeding that dog for the rest of their lives. I would not want anyone who I cared about (you or anyone else) to ever experience such a horrible tragedy.

I would like you to breed Dixie again, simply because I would be really interested in a pup if you would sell one to me. And I am also so thrilled to see the responsibility that went into the whole breeding experience, and I enjoy knowing that you are helping to better the breed by breeding such fine, beautiful, intelligent, devoted pups that are perfect representatives of the GR breed.

I, however, know how much Dixie means to you. I love her and she's not even my dog :) She is your dog of a lifetime and I know that her health and well-being can not be bargained with.

I would say that the pros and cons are almost equal, but because Dixie aged a little bit with her first litter, I would have to lean towards getting her spayed. That Dixie is an important girl and, even though she's such a good momma, and her pups are fine representatives of the golden breed, I think her health and longevity outweigh everything else. She's too important a girl to have anything like puppies shorten her time on earth in your loving arms.

Maybe when I am ready to get a golden (when we move into a house hopefully this summer, I have decided to get another dog and it's a toss up between a well bred GSD and a well bred GR) you can help me find a wonderful breeder? A breeder who puts the same amount of love and care into their puppies as you did with Dixie's litter?

I think you are a wonderful person and I completely respect you. Getting Dixie spayed is such a caring thing to do.

I voted to have her spayed. We can't have that Dixie aging before her time.

[Logan]

If I were as dedicated a mom as you are, Dixie, and I had decided to breed my female, I think I'd have as much of a struggle as you're having right now.

Honey and Lilly never even knew their first heat, having been spayed at 5 months old.

But dedicated breeders are important, to keep the quality of the breed alive. And you have made a significant contribution towards that effort.

I voted "yes" to spay, but did so knowing what a final thing this is. Dixie's done her part, and you certainly saw the "fruits of your labor" at the birthday party!! We all did, and loved the pictures.

[jennifert]

I totally agree with the above!!! In fact, it brought tears to my eyes!!! We need Dixie to be healthy and happy for as long as possible...
:)

[tatsxxx11]

Oh Candice...You're such a kind, caring and thoughtful person. I can understand how torn you are. Your beautiful Dixie sure is a great mom and has shown us all how capable she is of passing along all of her inner and outer beauty. And you bred her for the best of reasons under the most perfect of circumstances. Dixie's legacy lives on in those gorgeous baby goldens!! You have beautiful furbabies yourself, and your life is so full of fun doggie related activities. You will always be productively busy, in a doggie sort of way, I'm sure!! I think Dixie did a wonderful job as a mom and like Logan says, has done her part! I'm sure that all the puppies to be in the Dixie line will welcome a visit from their Aunty Candice!! I do vote for spay, but am totally understanding of your feelings, and I'm sure you will make the right decision for your beloved Dixie.:)

[KYS]

Only you can make this decision.
I think in your heart you have already
made it, by mentioning: "having a litter took a lot out of Dixie."
You can still show Dusty etc.
I think spaying her is the most selfless act you can
make, and I respect you for thinking about Dixie first. :)

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Oh Dixie, what a heartbreaking decision to be made. I know how much you love Dixie and Dusty. I'm trying to find the words that I want to say and it's very hard to do. I feel that you have gone through motherhood with Dixie, she did well, she had wonderful pups and you got to have all that puppy breath during that time.
Dixie did her job wonderfully, but it did take a lot out of her. I want to say yes, yes have more pups, wouldn't that be great, but I can't. Dixie is your love, your dog of all time. Our time with our pups is so short, why not enjoy her, have fun with her and just tell her how much you love her, and don't forget she gave you Dusty. I have to agree with the others that it is her time to be spayed and be left to enjoy her life. I wish there were more people out there like you who put their pup before their own wishes.
Jackie

[Sudilar]

As wonderful and precious as new pups are, I vote to spay. There are so many wonderful and precious dogs and pups in shelters that will be killed if they don't find a home. I promote adoption.

[Dixieland Dancer]

The overwhelming majority of you vote to spay. I guess in my heart I had already made that choice too or I wouldn't of made the vet appointment. She is scheduled to go in on Feb 12th.

Some of you brought tears to my eyes with your thoughts. Especially Leslie when she said she would want one of Dixie's pups if I did have another litter. What a high compliment since I know how much Graham is loved. Leslie, when you do want another pup and if it's a Golden let me know because I know many people who breed reputably for the betterment of the breed.

Several of you said Dixie has done her part and you are all right! She has and I don't want to see her age faster than normal. Our time with our beloved pets is so short as it is. Thanks for all the input and making me feel more comfortable with the decision to have her spayed. You guys are great cyber friends and I cherish each of you and your ability to tell it like it should be! :D

[C.C.'s Mom]

There's nothing that I could add to anything that is said here. I vote for spay, because you said that it took a lot out of Dixie.

I wished every respectable breeder would be so sweet and kind as you are, and not breed because of the money. Cookie's mom was spayed after her first litter, for the same reasons as you listed.

[Gio]

I know it's a hard decision to take but I believe that you have opted for what is the best for Dixie. We will be all thinking of you and her on February 12.

[mary_jsn]

I would defenitely spay her. I wouldn't get another litter 'cause if you can't get rid of the puppies after they have been separated from their mother then you would have to cope to feed more mouths than you already feed. Also what would happen if you get an unwanted pregnancy? i mean she gets pregnant with another male instead the one you want her to reproduce with. You would enjoy Dixie to the best. You wouldn't have to lock her up and clean blood stains all over the house. Also you would be free of dogs waiting at your front door trying to matewith her.
Many unwanted puppies have been left in shelters 'cause of unwanted pregnancies.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by mary_jsn
I would defenitely spay her. I wouldn't get another litter 'cause if you can't get rid of the puppies after they have been separated from their mother then you would have to cope to feed more mouths than you already feed. Also what would happen if you get an unwanted pregnancy? i mean she gets pregnant with another male instead the one you want her to reproduce with. You would enjoy Dixie to the best. You wouldn't have to lock her up and clean blood stains all over the house. Also you would be free of dogs waiting at your front door trying to matewith her.
Many unwanted puppies have been left in shelters 'cause of unwanted pregnancies.

Mary_jsn,
Thank you for your response. There is not a problem with people wanting one of Dixie's puppies. I bred her to a champion who's father was the 3rd most winning Golden in the history of the breed. I interviewed 56 people who wanted one of her pups and narrowed it down to the 9 that did get them. The other stuff is a consideration but since we didn't have Dusty at that time it was easy to do. She didn't have to be locked up. However, now that he is here I would have to find a way to separate them if I did breed again. More than likely I would have a relative keep Dusty during the fertile period. But I do believe getting her spayed is the right answer. It just makes the decision so FINAL!

[mary_jsn]

I'm happy that you chose the right decision. However if your desire to have another litter is too strong then don't spay her. It's more important your opnion than ours. Think about it a lot look a the good and bad sides about spaying Dixie. Just because people say that you spay Dixie it doesn't mean you have to.

[AdoreMyDogs]

Originally posted by Dixieland Dancer


Some of you brought tears to my eyes with your thoughts. Especially Leslie when she said she would want one of Dixie's pups if I did have another litter. What a high compliment since I know how much Graham is loved. Leslie, when you do want another pup and if it's a Golden let me know because I know many people who breed reputably for the betterment of the breed.


Hi Candice,

I am hoping to get a golden or a GSD (depending on what my heart tells me when the time comes) this summer or early fall. I have absolutely no desire to show in confirmation, but the thought of showing in obedience is something that I am really interested in. I will absolutely not breed, and the pup will be spayed at 6 months, or when the vet gives the OK to spay, and I want a female. I can't afford to spend a huge amount on a pup (a breeder of GSD's that I am REALLY interested charges $3000 for puppies) but I know that quality does not come cheap, I just don't want to be paying for a show champ since I am not going to do confirmation. I want a pet, not a show champ, but I want a very willing and eager dog who is very easy to train.

Believe it or not, I was looking in a Dog World magazine and I saw an add for GR pups that were bred for huge size! I don't agree with that! They were not advertising the temperment, intelligence, or show champs that they had, they were advertising HUGE pups! That made me want to only go through a breeder that I knew and trusted. A breeder who bred for all the good qualities and as close to the standard as possible...not for huge size!

I will let you know when we get a house and my husband and I are ready. The only reason I decided to get another dog while I still have Graham, is that he is showing so much interest in the dogs here at the apartment that I live at. He is making alot of friends and he's starting to look forward to seeing his doggie friends outside so he can play. I am going to take him to doggie daycare one day a week (can't afford any more days per week) once his leg heals up and so he can get used to being around other dogs more often.

Anyway, I totally respect your breeding standards and morals, and I would ONLY want to buy a golden from someone as wonderful as you. Good luck getting Dixie spayed. It's the loving thing to do :)

[Dixieland Dancer]

She is my heart dog and I love her more than I can possibly relay in words. I do not want to let anything (even having puppies) come between her and the rest of our lives together! She gave me a beautiful boy to love. And who knows, if I use Dusty as a stud perhaps I can keep one of the puppies from his litter! :D

Thanks again everyone for your input. I am comfortable with the decision now. :) :) :) YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST!!!!! :D

[mugsy]

I agree, but then, I think that ALL dogs should be spayed or neutered. If it was difficult on Dixie, I don't think there should be a discussion about it...I'm sure she will thank you!!! I know it's hard, but Dixie will be happier, I'm sure. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by mugsy
If it was difficult on Dixie, I don't think there should be a discussion about it...

I agree! But her pregnancy was so picture perfect with no complications. She delivered on her due date, we delivered 10 pups in 3 1/2 hours (very fast delivery), and she was the perfect momma! What I meant was that it aged her a little more rapidly than if she didn't have babies but this would happen to any dog. She bounced back just fine after the pups went home and after Dusty lost his puppy teeth! She play wrestled with him nonstop and had little scabs all over her head from his very sharp puppy teeth. :eek:

I would not even consider breeding her again if she had a complicated pregnancy the first time around! It was so perfect though that I got spoiled into thinking how easy this is. I think because she is a very athletic dog, it made it easy. She was active up to the day she delivered.

I may do it again someday with another dog but Dixie has done her part!

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Candy, I'm glad that you made the choice that you did!:) ;) Spaying is the right choice!;) Good luck!

Love,
Sarah & Sadie

[shais_mom]

Well, Candy. I think you are more educated in this than me. But I would definately spay her. Keegan has her appt for the end of Feb. The health problems related to intact females are just too numerous. Goldens have such a high tumor and cancer and health problem, I don't want to add to her chances. My parents neighbor have an 8yo(i think) golden who has had over 40 puppies and they just got a puppy 4 weeks older than Keegan and she is going to be bred also.. I don't agree with this,which is exactly why Keegan isn't going to have any. I don't want to deal with it, don't have the room, and myself am not educated enough in the area.
And since Keegan doesn't come from the Champion bloodlines like Dixie and Dusty, and I have no desire to show her or anything, there really is no reason to breed her,I wouldn't be doing anything for the Golden breed itself.
There is a really good article in the latest Dog Fancy about why breeders are needed. To make sure the best traits of the breed are passed on, which you did when you bred her the first time.
Since she is your heart dog, and you want her around for a good long time, definately spay her.
Let us know your decision so we can keep her in our prayers!

[mugsy]

I have a question for people who show dogs. Why is it that you can't show a dog that has been spayed or neutered? That never made sense to me, but I would be interested in knowing what the reasoning is behind that. Thanks!!

[Karen]

From what I've read, the whole purpose being showing a dog is to promote the breed, and to breed dogs who are perfect examples of that breed. So if you remove the ability to reproduce, you can then do nothing to forward the breed, so what's the point of saying "This - this is a perfect Golden Retreiver! This is the dog I want to mate mine with."

Still, I think they should just split every show into two - for the breeding dogs, and the non-breeding "just for the glory and fun of showing" dogs!

[K9karen]

Dear Candance:
I know you've made your decision, but another vote of confidence
can't hurt. I think spaying Dixie is a loving, selfless act. It shows how much she means to you. I mean, breeding her again would result in another magnifient litter, and I too, like Stacey, would contact you if and when I get another retreiver, but I would rather have your beautiful girl around for a long, long, time. I think once was enough, and her lineage will always be carried on.
You know how I adore your furkids. They are awesome. You have done such an incredible job with them and I am so envious cause I was so dumb and naive (tho Cody turned out surprisingly ok). I swear my next will be a therapy dog as I've seen the wonders that they perform.
And you are a loving person..it's so obvious after all this time of knowing you. I'm glad your're back, if only spiratically cause you've always been here for others so i'm glad we can be here for you!
Hugs...
Karen

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by mugsy
I have a question for people who show dogs. Why is it that you can't show a dog that has been spayed or neutered? That never made sense to me, but I would be interested in knowing what the reasoning is behind that. Thanks!!

When you are talking about showing a dog, the terminology "SHOWING" is assumed to be someone showing a dog for conformation or for their looks. As Karen stated you are showing in the hopes of having the perfect specimen of your breed. If you have the perfect specimen then it is a possibility that you will want to pass on the traits for the betterment of the breed. Most people who do not have this desire do not want to show in conformation. Conformation shows are very political and expensive. Your dog is scutinized for all kinds of traits such as eye set, topline, how they stack, teeth, coat, weight, height, temperment, gait, stop etc.... Non of this provides value other than the ability to say I have a perfect specimen and he/she is available for the betterment of the breed. The judge's sole job is to pick the dog that most embodies the standard for its breed over all the others of the same breed entered. It comes down to a judges opinion. I would of never bred Dixie to a dog that did not embody the breed standard in every way. And because of the exceptional bloodlines of both parents, we had a waiting list of people wanting our pups before we even knew if the breeding was successful or not.

Just a note.... Dixie is not a conformation standard dog. Her coat is not as long and thick as the standard calls for and the pigment in her nose is not real black. She does tend to get snow nose. Her strong line comes from a working background of Field trial champions and Obedience trial champions although her father was a show champion. These are traits that I was looking to pass on to her pups! Strong, athletic, hard working, intelligent, even temperment pups. and that is what we got!!!!!

A spayed or neutered dog is able to show in other venues with no physical consideration of the dog. They can compete in obedience, herding, agility, tracking, or any other recognized AKC event. Even dogs that have ILP numbers can compete in these events. These concentrate on what you have taught your dog and are more for enjoyment of the relationship between dog and handler. They are less political.

I have never done conformation but have done obedience, agility, and hunt tests. I will be doing conformation with Dusty after he gets a little older because I believe he is a perfect specimen and I would like to continue the exceptional lines he comes from.

Mugsy, I hope this answered your question. I tend to ramble sometimes.

[mugsy]

Thanks!!! I agree with the political part...I can tell that just from watching the shows on TV. So many of those people are sooooo presumptuous. Now I understand about that. But, that brought another question to mind. Why is a dog considered "ruined" if it breeds with another breed and produces a litter of Heinz57s, or breeds with a member of the same breed that doesn't quite measure up? I'm sooo ignorant about matters such as these...I just usually stay with my rescue stuff, which I am STILL ignorant about most of it. I appreciate the time taken to answer my questions...I always know I can count on Pet Talk to answer my questions.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by mugsy
that brought another question to mind. Why is a dog considered "ruined" if it breeds with another breed and produces a litter of Heinz57s, or breeds with a member of the same breed that doesn't quite measure up?

Mugsy, I am not sure where the assumption that a dog is "ruined" if it breeds with another breed or a member of the same breed that doesn't quite measure up came from. I do not feel that way at all and don't know anyone else who does either.

If by "ruined" you are referring to the fact that they can not be shown in the breed ring, I can only say that the minority can. There are more dogs registered with the AKC that are not breed standard perfect than there are that are. Many of them compete in many avenues of dog related fancies. My Dixie is one of them. She would not make it in the breed ring but excels in obedience, field, and agility.

In some ways the Heinz 57s are healthier and less prone to breed problems because they are not subjected to the unethical imbreeding that some breeders do for the almighty dollar they get from selling dogs "with papers". These kind of breeders introduce weakness into the breed and actually do more harm than good to the purebred dog. But not all breeders are unethical.

In short, just because a dog can not be shown in breed does not make them "ruined". It just means they can not be shown in the breed ring. All of my dogs have been pets first and working in different venues with them has just been the icing on the cake. If someone has a dog that loves them unconditionally no matter what the breed, perfection, or mix then they are truly blessed!

I'll use this analogy to close: Because you drive a car, you do not have to race in NASCAR. Because you own a dog, you do not have to show your dog in Conformation. It's only a small percentage that actually do.

I hope this has answered your question. Let me know if you have any others.