Outraged!

[NoahsMommy]

I CANNOT believe what I just read! I was shopping (yet again) for my furrbabies on Petco.com and came accross a discussion board. (I promise I wasn't cheating on PetTalk! :) ) Anyway, please read the following post:

CAT KILLS
First an indtroductory note: I raised my cats not to kill. They know better. With this said, I will explain. My female cat that I rescued when she was 6 months old just killed my black bear hamster. I have no idea how he actually got out of his cage but I awoke this morning and found him dead on my floor. My male cat did not do it. I got him from a local pet shop when he was two months old and he knows how to live in peace with all other animals. My female cat was taught this very same thing however because of her outdoor life previously she attacked and killed. I was wondering if anybody had any ideas how I may punish her or if I should get rid of her.


Can you believe this? I was SO mad, I wrote this:
You CANNOT teach an animal to ignore their instincts. Cat were born with the innate desire to kill small animals/birds/insects. You are being extremely presumtious/ignorant by saying you have trained them not to kill. THIS IS WHAT CATS DO!
Do not blaim your cat for killing the hamster, blaim yourself for not keeping the hamster away from the cat.
I cant believe you would consider getting rid of your cat so quickly. Maybe you should, so that she can have a home where she is actually loved.
People like you are the reason there are so many animals in shelters with no one to love them. Very sad...

Was I too harsh? I was really upset about his/her attitude, I NEVER start things and usually ignore mean/rude comments. What do you guys think?

[AmberLee]

Dear {{{Kelly/Noah's Mommy}}},

Yiieeee! You handled it better than I would've done. Take a deep breath and calm yourself.

Wow. How did others respond to the poster? It seems pretty arrogant to me to believe you can/should train a couple thousand years of instinct out of a cat in however long she was in that house ... I'm very sorry for the cats in that home. Perhaps the poster came across so over the top because of grief/guilt over not taking better care to protect the hamster?

Ick. Not sure what to think now. Poor cat(s). Poor hamster. Poor deluded pet owner (NOT a pet parent...)

[zippy-kat]

Having lost my two gerbils to my Max (RB), I can sympathize with the owner's loss. However, not once did I ever *THINK* of getting rid of Max. He was just bein' a cat.

To think that you can 'teach' a cat not to kill is absurd! As AmberLee said, it's heredity, born into them for thousands and thousands of years.

I wonder if these are the first cats that this person has owned...

[gini]

I remember years ago that my white cat, Sugar, caught and killed a bird. He promptly brought it home to me as a gift. I was living in an apartment at the time and my neighbor was hysterical and demanded that I PUNISH Sugar.

It took me a long time to convince her and make her think about cats and their heritage, before she understood. For example, how do feral cats survive? Ask Chuck - I bet he knows a lot about this. But aside from the stray garbage, I bet many bugs, birds and mice get eaten for them to survive.

I honestly wish that there was a class that was mandatory for grade school children - preschool and kindergarten ages that taught kids about animals - the responsibilities - their instincts along with the joys of having a pet.

I am sure that person was distraught over losing her other pet. But there also seems to be some basic ignorance going on here too.

But as someone said - maybe the cat might be better off in another home with loving humans.

[yorkster]

You GO Noah's Mommy!!!

You were so right, and you handled it well I believe.

Two things come to mind about this person:

1. She really has no way of knowing for sure WHICH cat it was. Just because the boy kitty was raised in a pet store, does not mean that much. One of my cats has never even been on our porch, let alone outside, and he is the one who is always hunting and killing bugs (BIG ones too sometimes) Our other cat who at one time was outdoors as a stray, could care less about chasing bugs.:eek:

and.......

2. Was this cat suposed to know the difference between a hamster and some critter like a mouse or rat? :eek: If it had been an undesirable critter, then I am sure she would have thought that it was a good thing.

[sirocco]

I'm with you, Noah's Mommy, I think you did very well. I'm not as assertive as I'd like to (and should!) be sometimes, so I think you did the right thing. I always wonder when someone says such non-sense about animals, for saying that you could teach an animal to ignore its instincts is stupid and somehow cruel. These things reveal how little respect some people feel for animals. Hope it changes, but it's going to take a long, long time...

[Former User]

I'm with you Kelly, you did the right thing. I can't believe someone actually tries to teach their cats not to hunt/kill. It's in cats nature, can't take it away.

Welldone Kelly! Good response! Go go go! :D

[Gio]

Kelly,

you certainly did the right thing. I personally believe that this person does not know anything about animals. Yorkster is right there is no way of knowing which cat killed the hamster, I had a cat once that was born indoors and never went outside once in her life but she still tried to kill any bug in sight. It's their instinct after all. It's like trying to turn a tiger into a vegetarian! Not only, but punishing the cat days after it happened is absolutely crazy, the poor thing will never understand while she is getting punished for!

She has every right to be upset about the death of her hamster, I certainly would be (I'm the person who got terrily upset when I crushed a snail in the dark:( ), but she should also realise that if she decides to keep to breeds which are not stricly "compatible" it's up to her to keep them safe.

[Pam]

Kelly your response was totally appropriate. This person needed to be "woken up" to what cats are all about. As much as my hubby and myself adore our kitties, he has always said "innately these little fellows are hunter/killers." :o It doesn't sound so nice to think of them that way, but that's how they were "wired" by their Creator. It's part of the "kitty package." This person was very irresponsible to have not kept a better watch on her pets that were not "kitty compatible."

[Maresche]

I agree that maybe it would be best for her to give her cat away...obviously she doesn't know enough about them herself. "Teach" a cat not to kill...yeah, sure, whatever! :rolleyes: What I'd really like to know is if she had "mouse" toys for her cats to play with. If so, then she was fostering that instinct, not teaching it out of them.

And just because one of her cats was rescued and the other came from a pet store says absolutely nothing about their tempermants (another thing she needs to learn). Terra, my tabby, came from a pet store and is much more agressive than Misao who I literally pulled in off the street.

I definitely thinks she needs to take CATS 101.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Please note the comment .."he knows how to live in peace with other animals." I'm willing to bet this is one of those radical animal rights people who think that stepping on a cockroach is cruelty. They engage in serious anthropomorphism.

I have to ask the question how does he know whether the cat knows how to live in peace or not? Did kitty tell him this late one night?

This individual failed in his/her responsibility to the hamster and the cat and -- in a continuation of his practice of imposing human abilities on animals -- thinks the cat can rationalize.

I agree with what everyone else said. You were right to blast the person. I wish I thought it would make a difference.

[purrley]

I person who is that naive or stupid should not have what I consider a privilege (sp) which is being owned by a cat and having pet mice. When I was about 7 or 8 I had a pet canary (was too young to have) and decided one day to have the cat and the bird be friends. Took the bird out of the cage, well enough said - no more birdy. That's the mentality of a 7 or 8 year old (at least mine at that age).

[purrley]

I will never forget how upset I was - I can remember that day like it was yesterday - I'm 51 now (whoops didn't mean to say that):D :D

[NoahsMommy]

You guys are great! Thanks for supporting me!

Someone else responded to this "person"....

You have no idea how the hamster died. You state you woke up and he was on the floor dead. Therefore, you have no way of knowing if your male cat killed him, if your female cat killed him, or if he died from other causes. And cats don't "know" not to kill anymore than they could ever possibley "know" not to breathe. You have possible had cats in the past with a weak hunting instinct and just assumed in your self-delusional, self-congratulatoy head that it was your success at "teaching" a cat something it can't be taught.

I think, besides a profound misunderstanding of cats, you have a subconcious dislike of your female cat.

I tend to agree the the first reply, perhaps you need to rethink cat ownership.

I'm sorry if I sound so harsh and flaming, but your assertion that you can teach your cats not to kill is so patently ridiculous that I cannot hold back.

Wow! Even better put!! I am just so glad I'm not the only one that feels this way...

Purrley, I'm sorry about your canary. :( You were too young, it wasn't your fault.

Gini, you are so right! It should be mandatory! It goes along with the punishment for animal cruelity being as strong as human cruelity...

The first thing I thought of when I read her post was "what do you think that cats are doing with their toys? Playing tag?" :rolleyes:

[yorkster]

I would be interested to know if there is ever a reply from this person. Has there been one yet? I mean, what could she possibly say? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[ramanth]

I was curious about that too, yorkster.

Noah'sMommy.. you handled that better than I would of. I'm furious! You never punish a cat for it's instinct.

My cats our mousers. Always have been, always will be.

http://ramanth.tripod.com/cats.html

Check out the last photo. I have NO clue how my mom got Maximus on Chance and got a photo. He must of been very asleep.

One day Jenn came home to find the screen off the hamster cage off and one of them missing. It was Minimus. She went upstairs in tears to my parents bedroom when suddenly Scooter came running in. Suddenly she saw something and dove for it. It was Minimus. We think Scooter carried him upstairs to my parents room with the intent to play and then eat.

But Minimus is the bitey one and we assume he put up a fight. Scooter is very skittish. Both hamsters still live to this day and the cats leave the cage alone. But we dare not trust to leave the screen off.

[NoahsMommy]

Ramanth,

That picture of Chance and Maximus is too cute!!

I will go back an check to see if there is any response....hold on. :)

Nope, not yet.....

[ramanth]

Originally posted by NoahsMommy
Ramanth,
That picture of Chance and Maximus is too cute!!

Thanks. :D I also have a pic of him sitting on Chance's belly with his eyes starting to open.

I hope that person feels scolded and guilty and does not punish the cat.

[thelmalu99]

Wow, I really can't believe the ignorance of that person. Maybe he/she should rent The Lion King, LOL! It's the "circle of life", dude. Sorry, I know this isn't a funny issue, but I'm honestly amazed that anyone could be so stupid. Noah's Mom, I don't believe you were too too tough with your reply. I would have been a lot meaner. As a matter of fact, I probably would have been downright rude.

[yorkster]

Ramanth, your kittys are adorable! Scooter the orange one looks like one of mine.

[NoahsMommy]

Ramanth,

Does Scooter like like my Noah? (he's the orange tabby in my signature) Too cute!

Thelmaluu,

Thanks! I wanted to be a whole lot meaner, but I fugured kids had access to that site... :)

[AdoreMyDogs]

Noah's Mom,

You stated that reply very well. I wish people would use their heads before they get any animal. It's a shame really. I would be surprised if that person actually liked her/his cats! You know that one "acused" female kitty is going to suffer because that owner seemed to have absolutely no love or respect for the poor animal. I had a wonderful kitty when I was growing up who killed my beloved parakeet but we all knew that it was just Felicia being a cat and doing what cats do. We were so upset that our beloved Sasha died, but it was our fault for letting the parakeet have free roam of the house with a cat.

If I would have seen that post I would have said something very similar to what you said. There is no excuse for having so little knowledge about an animal that you have agreed to protect! I am quite angry with that person's post and I hope he/she opts to find those cats a better home :(

[lynnestankard]

Well done Kelly - I'd have been spluttering with rage and incapable of such a good reply. My three, who are outdoor cats - do hunt, they are well fed and homed - but instinct will out every time. I have felt very sorry when any of mine brings me a 'lovely' present be it field mouse or bird, but it's the nature of the 'beast' aint it? I'd hate to think that humans could 'breed out' a cats nature and make it into something 'man made'.
My neighbour did complain about my cats scratching the fence!! Oh well;)
Bagel does however bring me lovely presents from another neighbours pond - of live frogs!! She carries them so carefully and never hurts them - she seems fascinated by them! I simply take them home - the neighbour in question thinks this is such a hoot!!
Lynne.

[tuxluvr]

You were right to be outraged and responded very accurately and appropriately - in fact all posts are AMEN and on target!

Some people don't deserve pets. I hope this person doesn't have children. I perish the thought of the warped psyches being developed in that household!

Pet ownership is an important responsibility and often an exercise in humility, and is only successful when there is an understanding and appreciation of the true nature of the other.

Come to think of it, dealing with other people is really no different.

;)

[tuxluvr]

Originally posted by ramanth
Check out the last photo. I have NO clue how my mom got Maximus on Chance and got a photo. He must of been very asleep..

That is one of my favorite pictures~! I always envision a caption thought bubble coming out of Maximus, whispering

"DOOOOOON'T EEEEAAAT MIIIICE......MIIIIIIICE TAAAAAASTE BAAAAD!" "Haaaaaamsters are juuuusst beettter dressssed mmiiiiiice.....remember miiiiice taaaaste baaaad!"

[NoahsMommy]

hee hee, cute Tuxluvr! :D

[zippy-kat]

Originally posted by tuxluvr
"DOOOOOON'T EEEEAAAT MIIIICE......MIIIIIIICE TAAAAAASTE BAAAAD!" "Haaaaaamsters are juuuusst beettter dressssed mmiiiiiice.....remember miiiiice taaaaste baaaad!"


LOL LOL ROTF LOL LOL
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[ramanth]

Originally posted by NoahsMommy
Ramanth,
Does Scooter like like my Noah? (he's the orange tabby in my signature) Too cute!

Noah actually looks like Nike. He passed a few years ago but Scooter and Nike were most likely half brothers even though Scooter was born a year or so after we lost Nike. They came from the same farm and both looked just like the Alpha Male.

But Nike had a long beautiful tail like Noah. Scooter was born with a nub tail. Other than that, Nike and Scooter looked identical.

I have a pic of Scooter that better shows his tail, or lack there of. Just need to get it scanned. :D

Tuxluvr: LMAO!!! How very true.

Noahs'Mommy: I'm curious if the person ever wrote back....

[NoahsMommy]

Ramanth,

I would love to see pictures of Scooter and Nike!

No response yet, I have a feeling that person won't. I don't know if I would...

[tuxluvr]

Ramanth, I took liberties with Ramanth & Chance's picture in photoshop.....I just love this picture!

[zippy-kat]

TOOOO CUTE!!!
:D :D :D

[ramanth]

LMAO!!! You beat me to it Tuxluvr. I'm playing with some pics in Photoshop right now.

Maximus Giving a Belly Rub... (http://community.webshots.com/user/ramanth)

Here is the other shot I was talking about.

Go to the album My Cats. It's the first image. :)

[tuxluvr]

Originally posted by SpencerTheLion
...is the mouse going to use the Pavlov technique? :D


hee hee....I think it is offically referred to as "subliminal messages"