Can this really be true?

[gini]

A young girl who is living with her boyfriend in my neighborhood became pregnant and then had a miscarriage.

She was taken to the hospital immediately and she was there under 24 hours.

The hospital bill???? They have no insurance.

$18,000.00:eek: :o

As my dear departed father would have said............

"it doesn't seem hardly enough!"

:mad: :mad:

[IRescue452]

Small bill. I have no insurance so I avoid getting any injuries. Broke college students don't qualify for crap for a few years after getting kicked off their parents insurance. Great land I live in.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

We just saw that movie on TV....can't remember the name of it but it was with Denzel Washington and his son needed a heart transplant and his insurance would only cover $20,000.00 of it so he ended up taking hostages in the hospital to get the new heart for his son. It was really heart wrenching because it made you wonder how often this happens in real life!


Great land I live in.
Sorry IRescue452, but this comment just turned me off. If you don't like it here, there's no one stopping you from leaving and going to a country where poor college students get insurance just like everyone else. :mad:

If you're a college student, you're old enough to vote - did you? If you don't like the way this country is run, do something about it. Your above comment does absolutely nothing constructive to help correct the situation we have here in our country. It's just negative whining and just grinds on my last nerve. People are so quick to criticize this country when you don't know how good you really have it here. I really don't know you and I know I shouldn't judge just from one comment made in passing, but you sound like just another spoiled American who expects everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. If you don't like it - leave!

Sorry, off my soap box now. :o

[caseysmom]

Tubby and Peanuts mom...I agree with you 100%...this country is all of ours...we need to make it better and that takes all of us. As the great president once said "don't ask what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country"

By the way I watched John Q also for the third time...just loved that move (doesn't hurt that denzel is gorgeous)

[lizbud]

The bill seems high to me for such a short stay. Wonder if any
life saving (emergency) measures or machines had to be used?

[emily_the_spoiled]

Unfortunately given that the hospital was treating both her and her unborn baby and they had an overnight stay it does not seem too high :(

If you have a relationship with the young woman please tell her to contact the hospital billing department. Most hospitals (especially in CA) have a policy of reducing the bill so that they have some hope of collecting at least some of the money.

BTW, if she is pregnant/uninsured & below a certain income level, she may qualify for Medicaid or some government program developed specifically for pregnant women. I am sure if she contacted Planned Parenthood or some other organization that deals with pregnancy they would be able to direct her to the right place.

[christa]

I believe it!

It's all a scam!!!

:mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :mad:

[cali]

and that is exactly why I do not live in the states and have zero intention of ever going there lol that bill is outragously high. but this is comming from the land of healthcare. frankly I would be a bum in the street if I lived in the states, I would never be able to even remotly afford a bill that huge, I am already on welfare here, and I so do often have to go to the hospital(carpo-pedel spasms as a result of my skin being unable to absorb Vit. D, the only vit D I can get is from a chewable multi as I cannot swallow before chewing)

[caseysmom]

Well this administration has not made health care a priority although it has been broken for some time.

[ladywizz]

I cannot believe they charged the poor woman!! Am pleased I live in the Uk...after having 3 miscarriages myself....i hate to think what the bill would be!!!
Is that just the normal thing over in the states???
I think the only thing we get charged for here, health wise, are prescriptions, private medical care and the ambulance if you cause a road accident.
I feel quite sorry for the woman:(

[catlady1945]

Outrageous.

In Canada we are really protective of our medicare.

[wolflady]

It is crazy how expensive healthcare is here and how difficult it is for some people to even get insurance to help pay these outrageously high bills.

This doesn't even compare to your poor neighbor's bill, Gini, but my neighbor cut her finger and she went to the hospital. The cost for 2 stitches?? $2000!!!!
That seems a little high for something that takes like 1 minute to do.
I worked in a vet hospital (and I know it's nowhere near a human hospital, but the equipment is basically the same), and I know for a fact that the monocryl doesn't cost THAT much and even a little shot to numb her finger wouldn't have cost THAT much either.
*sigh*
Luckily, my neighbor fought it because she looked at the itemized sheet that she received and they were charging her for an exam by a physician that she didn't even see! That's just rediculous, IMO.
:(

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by wolflady
It is crazy how expensive healthcare is here and how difficult it is for some people to even get insurance to help pay these outrageously high bills.

This doesn't even compare to your poor neighbor's bill, Gini, but my neighbor cut her finger and she went to the hospital. The cost for 2 stitches?? $2000!!!!
That seems a little high for something that takes like 1 minute to do.
Luckily, my neighbor fought it because she looked at the itemized sheet that she received and they were charging her for an exam by a physician that she didn't even see! That's just rediculous, IMO.
:(

Always ask for an itemized statement after a doc/hospital visit...
Every procedure or surgery is loaded into the billing software with a list of materials, meds and equipment...you are charged for them...used or not...

Somedays I hate my job, it's stories like this that make me appreciate it...

For 4 stitches I payed 20 dollars....I took them out myself so I saved a few buck more....

------------------------------------------------
Health insurance should be a priority for everyone.

More and more companies are moving away from employer subsidized health coverage. The reason?

Rates to get coverage are going thru the roof.

It has to do with the legal system here in the U.S.

I do have strong opinions on the impact of the health industry on the political, social and business aspects of our country-I probably do not know exactly how, but there are a few commercials on TV that give me an idea.....


"If you or a loved one has suffered from a heart attack, stroke or tape worms from taking Vioxx, call the law offices of........."


The commercials selling you a treatment for hair loss, impotence or flatulence always have "the voice" telling you that you can expect some, but not all of the following symptoms from taking that pill.....

Irritability, hearing loss, high blood pressure, sore throat, itchiness, dry mouth, hemmorhoids, dry eyes, dandruff, diarrhea,
jaundice, loss of memory, headaches......


Need I say more?.....the cure sounds worse than the illness.

--------------------------------------------

We as consumers, voters and eventual patients have to get on the ball here and stop some of the ridiculous lawsuits that will impact us later on..

18,000 dollars??

That is a pretty steep lesson to learn.

----------------------------------

This is not going to make me popular-

Why are they having sex without thinking???

Now a woman can get a script for some OthroNovum or a guy can shell out a few bucks for a box of condoms.....

5 dollars versus 18,000?

Or just pass on the sex and hold hands for Pete's sake!!!


:confused:

[Edwina's Secretary]

ssshhh..... Richard...this is what went through my mind as well....




Why are they having sex without thinking???

but don't tell anyone...

We do have outrageously expensive medical care...much of which covers lifestyle choices....especially ones that may be fun but unhealthy...smoking...eating....drinking...having sex.

I believe there are lots of reason....drug companies, litigious patients who expect miracles, sloppy doctors, nursing shortage, and the failure of most of us to be smart consumers of medical care. I once had an argument with my insurance company. There was a charge for a service I didn't receive...and as Richard suggests.... I pointed it out. The response was...Why did I care...I wasn't paying for it...the insurance is!

Insurance doesn't really pay for anything. It merely pools the risk and passes on the claims paid to everyone (minus a fee for doing the work.)

[gini]

Richard and Sara - you have pointed out exactly what was going through my mind at the time these kids were telling me their sad tale. But the deed has been done - they didn't need my lecture.

An insurance agent explained to me that when people walk in for emergency care without insurance - the hospitals will really sock it to them - to try to re-coop some money against ALL of the people that walk in without insurance.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary






but don't tell anyone...



O.k..........;)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by gini
But the deed has been done - they didn't need my lecture.



If Gini asks you to blow up ballons at the BBq make sure they are balloons, not left over condoms from her 'lectures'....:confused:

[gini]

You are just itching to stir up some trouble aren't you Richard?

:D :D :D

[Edwina's Secretary]

An insurance agent explained to me that when people walk in for emergency care without insurance - the hospitals will really sock it to them - to try to re-coop some money against ALL of the people that walk in without insurance.

I call it "rack rate"..... those without insurance don't get the negotiated discount rate that insurance companies get for their customers...

"from each according to his/her ability not to pay...to each according to his/her ability to pay..."

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by gini
You are just itching to stir up some trouble aren't you Richard?

:D :D :D

I already got Sara to agree with me....I feel troublesome today!

:)

There is a billing method called DRGs (diagnosis related groups) each illness group (for example, all gall bladder operations are lumped together) has a code and a costing total associated with it.

A hospital bills with the DRG code and the insurance or government will pay the rate stated in that table, not one cent more....


I am not sure of the nuts and bolts of the system....it had just started when I left that department.....but that's the gist of it....

that's how hospitals make/lose money....I am sure there is a coder out there that can exploain it better.
:eek:

[lizbud]

I'm not a coder, nor do I play one on TV, but,

The high cost of insurance cannot be layed at the feet of Tort
Law. How about the tremendous amount of money spent for ads
by drug companies in all media for certain brands of drugs. Drugs that should be pitched to the Drs. and not the masses.

Have you ever read an hospital itemed statement? Next to
impossable to decifer.Last one I received was 8 pages long
and a lot of it looked like double billing to me.

[Lady's Human]

Current tort law has driven doctors out of practice across the country because of the resulting 6 figure malpractice insurance rates. The ones who stay in practice are forced to inflate their rates to pay for their insurance.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I had someone in class recently from the company that advertises a diabetes testing devise used by BB King. They have had UNBELIEVABLE success. People go to the doctor and say..."prescribe that thing that BB King uses!" Advertising works! And costs the consumer ALOT!

[Corinna]

The bill doesn't surprise me my daughters er and surgical bill(miscarrage in Sept) Just the hospital was $2000.00 She had to pay a prorated prenatal care at the gyno's .!! years ago my hubbys cancer bills started coming in and I gave up add to them at $96,000.00 Then we had radiaton 5 days a week for 6 weeks $250.00 a time.
Insurance what is that? We have never had it.

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by gini
An insurance agent explained to me that when people walk in for emergency care without insurance - the hospitals will really sock it to them - to try to re-coop some money against ALL of the people that walk in without insurance.

Exactly. Why is everyone charged $10 for one aspirin tablet in the hospital? Because the people that do happen to be lucky enough to afford insurance or have it through work are paying for all the people who can't afford insurance and can't pay their hospital bill. So when an insurance company pays that $10 charge for one aspirin, they are actually paying for the last 1,000 apirin tablets issued, that no one else could afford to pay for.

I don't have any health insurance. I am the self-employed owner of a small business, and the cost of getting an insurance policy for myself is absolutely absurd. I make too much money (barely) to qualify for medicaid, and not enough money to afford medical insurance. This country's health care system is in serious trouble. And, yes ... I do vote, therefore I can complain.

My son got two stitches in the emergency room last summer. It took approximately five minutes. The bill was over $400. My mom's five day hospital stay two years ago cost well over $100,000. The only time I've been in the hospital, $14,000 for 24 hours ... and that was almost fourteen years ago.

[janelle]

I bet you anything most of it will be written off if they can't pay. Most docs and hospitals do this all the time.

The aspirin costs so much cause it's not just the aspirin but the skilled nursing that is giving the aspirin, you are paying for their time and care. You don't want an aspirin right before surgery or your blood won't clot. They went to med school to learn when to give or not give you meds.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
So when an insurance company pays that $10 charge for one aspirin,

But the insurance company doesn't pay $10.00 for that aspirin. Like someone else mentioned, they have their "negotiated rates" and that's what they pay. They might actually pay $1.00 for that aspirin and the hospital will write off the other $9.00.

I have a lump on my thyroid that I have checked every couple of months. I have had biopsies done to see if it was cancer (it's not), ultrasounds to see how big it is and exactly where it's located, and bone density tests about every 2 years to make sure the medication isn't turning my bones to mush, along with the blood tests and the doctor's visits ($100.00 for about 10 minutes of his time). All of this is quite expensive. They do all the test "in-house" which saves money because I don't have to go to the hospital and pay their fees, but the bill for my most recent ultrasound came to over $2,500. The "net" bill, after discounting for negotiated rates, came to about $800.00.

Knowing how the insurance companies have these negotiated rates, had I not had insurance, the first thing I would have done when I got the $2,500.00 bill was ask them to discount it to something a little more realistic. Doctors and hospitals will do that for those who don't have insurance, but you have to ask - and may have to fight for it. There have already been programs on TV (60 minutes and such) where they discuss this. The hospitals charge everybody the same thing and it's up to the person/insurance company receiving the bill to negotiate the actual amount with them. The hospital would rather negotiate with someone without insurance because then they have a better chance of recouping at least some of the bill whereas if they say no way, we need the full amount, chances are theyw won't collect any of it.

[wolfsoul]

Wow, these prices are so harsh. :eek: I'm glad I live in Canada, with Medicare. I've never had to directly pay for any medical expenses in my life, save for the last few times I went to the chiropractor and massage therapist (Medicare doesn't cover those anymore :( ).

Last year I had heard that the US is going to buy Canada's medical plan in the next few years. Although that does seem a little odd because the US is constantly pressuring Canada to get rid of Medicare. :confused:

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Health insurance is in a sad state in this country - and something that Terry and I are watching carefully since we both have good insurance now, but will be giving that up in the near future when we go full-time in the motorhome. I will need to get my own coverage and pay for it because of the thyroid problem I mentioned in the previous post.

The problem is that we Americans want everything. We want our health insurance, but we don't want to pay for it ourselves - can't happen! The consumer ultimately pays for everything - don't kid yourself about that. So, we keep on the way we are with hospital/doctor bills going through the roof and more and more people loosing their coverage because insurance rates are also going through the roof. Who pays? We all do in the long run.

We could implement a national health plan similar to Canada or other developed countries, but then our taxes would go up and heaven forbid we can't have that! (being sarcastic here) So who do you think is going to pay for it? Most people who do have coverage already pay a portion of the premium through payroll deduction. So what would be wrong with putting that towards a national health plan instead of their company's health plan?

Like I said, who do you think is going to pay? Ultimately we are all going to pay anyway. If Americans wouldn't be so darned paranoid about their taxes going up we could have a national health plan where everyone is covered. We are the only developed nation that does not have national health coverage and it's because we are all so worried about our darn taxes. You can't have the greatest nation in the world without paying for it.

[jennifert9]

Just an FYI from a single girl, thankfully WITH health insurance now but without it for years....Birth control is NOT covered by most health insurance plans. I used to have to go to the clinic to get my bc pills and even then, what I paid was based on my salary, gross not net and before taking into account any other bills I may have, like rent or food for example.
I was told once by the poor guy who answered the phone at the insurance company when I called up to find out why my pills were NOT the $10 copay for all other prescriptions but instead were $48!! for 30 days worth, "There has to be a medical reason for the prescription." :mad: :mad: I told him that there was a medical reason, it I got pregnant because I couldn't afford the pill, HE would need a doctor because I would come down there and punch him in the face! Not very nice I know, nothing like killing the messenger but it makes no sense!!!! :confused:

BUT, Viagra is covered by most insurance plans! Explain that one...could it be that most corporations are owed/ran by men in their 50s and 60s...?

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizbud

I'm not a coder, nor do I play one on TV, but,

The high cost of insurance cannot be layed at the feet of Tort
Law. How about the tremendous amount of money spent for ads
by drug companies in all media for certain brands of drugs. Drugs that should be pitched to the Drs. and not the masses.


A marketing budget is small potatoes compared to the research, development, testing and finally greasing all the palms to get a medicine/treatment approved by the government/FDA.

Paying a Nascar driver a few million a year to drive in circles with VIAGRA painted on the hood is only worth a few million a year.
------------------------------------------------

What was the...phen phen????

Look at what that fiasco cost the company that produced the drug......Money for lawyers to protect the company and to settle the claims from all the people who were 'injured'.

I knew a gal who took that stuff and when she heard about the lawsuit she wondered if she qualified for some money from the settlements.....

You also have to take into consideration that a person will come into a Drs office and tell the doctor what they need.

Kinda like the the silicone implant problems that have plagued that industry....Women wanted them and a few years later....

There were long term problems that took the silicone implants off the market for a while, only to be replaced by saline fillled implants.

Take a gander at the settlements in the class action lawsuits that were were settled by Dow Corning......

In some cases the pain and suffering amounts rewarded were hundreds of thousands of dollars.......only to be whittled away by the 'system' (read: lawyers) to paltry "thousand" dollar awards.
---------------------------------------------------

I'm not a coder, nor do I play one on TV, but,
I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.;)

[RICHARD]

lol,


Not at the thread, but at my own stupidity.


I just realized that this woman just didn't go into the hospital and leave.

Most likely she did have a surgical procedure called a dilitation and curettage- it involves a surgeon, anesthesiologist and all the supporting cast.

Miscarriages have different levels and there was probably a problem with her hemorrhaging, so they had to take her into the operating room to take care of her.

A D&C takes about 10 minutes of actual operating time and about 45 minutes of room time. Patients are sent home the same day as opposed to a few years ago, they were kept overnight....

[Edwina's Secretary]

Thank you Richard...now we can go back to disagreeing....;)

How many times did I hear during the Superbowl about a pill that might give you a four hour erection? That is a couple million for every 30 seconds. But you are right...the power of advertising is what gets people in to the doctor's office asking for the little purple pill or BB King's blood tester. Prescription drugs represent the largest part of the rise in medical costs....

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
How many times did I hear during the Superbowl about a pill that might give you a four hour erection?

Seeing that a football game is three hours long......I guess that covers the half time entertainment....:confused:

Virility can be confused with stupidity...


In the typical scenario...


After having a moment with your lady, and in typical male fashion, you roll over to fall asleep and hurt yourself because you are only 15 minutes into your four hour adventure...


:eek: :rolleyes: :p :D ;)
--------------------------------------------

ES,

Medical supplies, tools and implant devices (screws, plates for broken bones, pacemakers, mesh, vein grafts..) make up a huge chunk of hospital costs...

[Lady's Human]

The United States is not going to buy the Canadian Medicare program, the US is just considering buying drugs from Canadian sources or allowing people to do so.

Nationalized health care would not merely raise taxes, it would break the budget. I prefer to make my own choices in such matters, let's leave big brother (Or the mommy state) out of my health care.

[caseysmom]

Well I think the government should step in and changes should be made instead of getting involved and passing legislation for one woman there are many people going without basic healthcare.

[gini]

Richard, I feel certain that this is the best explanation of her condition. When she arrived at the emergency room at the hospital, they told her that they didn't have any beds. She said she was in the emergency waiting room for a long time. They gave her a blanket which she ruined - and then they gave her another blanket.............

I believe that the only bed she might have seen was the one in the operating room and/or recovery room






Originally posted by RICHARD


I just realized that this woman just didn't go into the hospital and leave.

Most likely she did have a surgical procedure called a dilitation and curettage- it involves a surgeon, anesthesiologist and all the supporting cast.

Miscarriages have different levels and there was probably a problem with her hemorrhaging, so they had to take her into the operating room to take care of her.

A D&C takes about 10 minutes of actual operating time and about 45 minutes of room time. Patients are sent home the same day as opposed to a few years ago, they were kept overnight....

[Edwina's Secretary]

Medical supplies, tools and implant devices (screws, plates for broken bones, pacemakers, mesh, vein grafts..) make up a huge chunk of hospital costs...

But what percent of total medical expenses are in hospital?

[tortuga55]

One of the many reasons I am glad I live in Canada. When I travel I will also get death insurance to cover the cost of having my body shiped back to my parents. My mom had two back sergeries and we paid little if nothing for them, and when I was born I was premature and there was lots of complications, we almost died. In the states the bill would have been huge. My dad pays about $100 a month for health care for the entire family, and most of the time he does not even have to pay that. There might be huge waiting lists in Canada but not huge bills. If you really need the surgerie or to see a specialist, like when my grandfather was diagnosed with lung cancer they are very fast, next day. There might be long waites but I am not afraid to go to the hospital if I think somethings wrong.

[lizbud]

Originally posted by Lady's Human


Nationalized health care would not merely raise taxes, it would break the budget.


No fear of that fella, Bush has already smashed a surplus to
a vague memory by tax cuts for the very rich and a misbegotten
war in a country that did us no harm.

[caseysmom]

Well my employer pays for my medical coverage thank goodnes, they pay $700 a month...I am sure lots of folks are not so fortunate. I think I pay an addition $100 a month or something close to that.

[tortuga55]

$100 canadian seems like the better deal. In my opinion. I think its mean of Bush to not allow americans to buy drugs from canada, but allow them to buy drugs from mexico. Most of our drugs come from the states or at least the some companies american pharmacies get their drugs from. Whats the dif. if its cheaper why not?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Whats the dif. if its cheaper why not

His friends in the drug industry won't get to make as much profit?

[RICHARD]

Ah, ah ah!!!


Start blaming the senators and congressman who take money from the special interest groups................


Those are the morons who deserve the blame......


It's the mechanics you blame when the bus breaks down....

The driver only gets as far as THEY'LL let him go.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sorry to again disagree.....;)

If the driver abuses the bus....it breaks down....

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
Sorry to again disagree.....;)

If the driver abuses the bus....it breaks down....

A bus is built to take abuse.....:D

-------------------------

I just asked someone the average cost of running one operating room for one hour....

He didn't have an answer, but he did use this example......................

A defibrillator/pacemaker can cost about 28,000 dollars to put in....

[Cataholic]

For those of you that felt it necessary to comment about the nature of the hospitalization- shame on you.

Healthcare should be an affordable RIGHT not dependant on circumstances. Whether the two were married, single, gay, etc, not only did they suffer a very tragic experience, but, then they have people judging them, to top it all.

What their relationship to each other is/was has NOTHING to do with health insurance. I was somewhat surprised to see it even referenced in the opening post.

I suppose if the miscarriage was the result of an act of violence the victim should really just follow up with the person that perpetrated the crime?

Yes, I am somewhat sore about all this crap. The 'illegitimate kids', the children out of 'wedlock', and now this. Funny, as one of the people that felt it necessary to expel her ideas of morality on me has JUST indicated by her post here that she ain't so 'moral' herself. Go figure.

I can't wait until I have walked a mile in everyone's shoes to start telling you all how I feel about YOUR lifestyles. It might take me awhile.

Johanna

[Edwina's Secretary]

Respectfully Cataholic....I couldn't care less about their marital status... my problem is with people having things....whether it should be children or anything else...that they cannot take care of and then expect others to do it or pay for it.

I agree with you about affordable health care. But I also think people should think ahead and take responsibility.

I read in today's paper...a woman wrote in that her son had been suspended from school for visiting an "inappropriate" web site and wasn't it really the school's fault for not supervising him better.

Actions has consequences and those consequences are my responsibility.

[Cataholic]

ES- you are correct, people **should** take responsibility, and that includes being able to pay their way in this world. I do wonder, though, if that was the nature of the comments posted in this thread.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I can assure you it was the nature of mine...

[Cataholic]

VERY lovely pm I just received from one of our NEWEST members...

nice, very well worded, wouldn't you agree?

And, really, I don't like the tone of your 'threats'....



jennifert9 wrote on 04-06-2005 04:27 PM:
Johanna, I'm sure you make a great lawyer because you take offense to EVERYTHING! Not everything is directed at you and you are NOT the center of the universe! NEWSFLASH!!
I assume you were talking about me in your recent post and now YOU have offended ME. And trust me honey, I can argue with the best of them so you may have just bit off more than you can chew. I never said I didn't believe in sex before marriage. I said I didn't believe in having children "out of wedlock" And yes, I will say it again "OUT OF WEDLOCK". Not outdated, used by everyone and whether you like it or not, PEOPLE ARE JUDGING YOU! SURPRISE! At least I have the decency not to bring a child in to this world for my own personal gain. I am what is called r e s p o n s i b l e....The last thing this world needs is more children. There are PLENTY that need to be adopted.
I have morals, plenty of them which is WHY I don't have children, I have had the same boyfriend for 5 years, in fact, I LIVE with him. Does that offend you? I hope so. You are judging me by your standards and apparently those of the Catholic church, none of which I subscribe to. So next time you want to spout off and ruin everyone else's good day, do it somewhere else.



BTW, it is Cat-a-holic...not CATHaholic..silly, silly, silly girl.

[jennifert9]

That's right and the reason I didn't post it here is because not everyone needs to be subjected to your opinionated, judgmental, over-sensitive spouting. Why do you always think that everyone is out to get you? You made your decision, get over it. If you have regrets bring them somewhere else to discuss them, not here on Pet Talk. If you want to discuss this further, we can do it out of the public eye so everyone here doesn't have to listen to it. Grow up.
And by the way, I have been a member here since 12/4/2001, long before you joined, and have just recently started posting again. So don't think for one second that you can make me leave or intimidate me by bullying me like you are on a playground or something. Stop following me around PetTalk. Don't you have anything better to do?

[Cataholic]

You are so far out of line...so far.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I am sorry Johanna..... I recently received my first nasty pm (which is probably surprising since I can be rather outspoken as well) and it hurt.

In fact, I was hesitant to respond on this thread because I did not want to say anything you might find offensive.

Am I being judgemental?....I suppose so. I think getting pregnant while living with mom and dad and not having any insurance is a rather immature and shortsighted action.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Hmmm....I was wondering who you were referring to, Johanna, because I knew ES, Gini, Lizbud, Richard, me or most anyone else that posted here would never "expel her ideas of morality" on you (the others I don't know well enough to make such comments about - sorry). I know you are very capable of handling yourself so all I'll say is I'm sorry that anyone judges anyone here. I will just never understand why people feel they have the right to push their judgements on others. :confused:

jennifert9 - I don't know you at all, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if you were to get pregnant "out of wedlock" since you are not married and are having sex. Birth control has been known to fail you know.... Oh, but of course, you would immediately get married right? An abortion is obviously out of the question....

Sorry, didn't mean to side track this thread anymore than it already is. :o

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by jennifert9
That's right and the reason I didn't post it here is because not everyone needs to be subjected to your opinionated, judgmental, over-sensitive spouting. Why do you always think that everyone is out to get you? You made your decision, get over it. If you have regrets bring them somewhere else to discuss them, not here on Pet Talk. If you want to discuss this further, we can do it out of the public eye so everyone here doesn't have to listen to it. Grow up.
And by the way, I have been a member here since 12/4/2001, long before you joined, and have just recently started posting again. So don't think for one second that you can make me leave or intimidate me by bullying me like you are on a playground or something. Stop following me around PetTalk. Don't you have anything better to do?

Since you are SO familiar with things here in PT land...where do you begin to suggest I think anyone is out to get me? Or, that I am judgmental? Opinionated, yes, judgmental? No.

As to talking on PT about things in my life..well, I am kind of of the opinion that many, many people on here are my friends, and that they enjoy hearing about my son, my cats, etc.

I suppose when I get the idea this is all in my head, I will reconsider.

[gini]

The reason for my original post remains the same.......it was a question regarding the cost for the emergency care.

I believe the habit of having babies "in" or "out" of wedlock is here to stay - and my post was never intended to be a judgement call.

But........the fact remains that this young couple found themselves at the emergency unit of a local hospital in the middle of the night.
He told me that she was losing so much blood that her lips were turning blue. And they had to sit and wait for treatment because there were no beds available.

The question does come to my mind however, that if this had been life threatening for her - he as the boyfriend could make no decisions for her. No one else was at the hospital with them.

Other personal details about them isn't important here.

[Lady's Human]

Can we move the urinating contest back into PM land?


ES- For once, I agree with you on one thing......RESPONSIBILITY. (First richard, now me, god help us all)

People need to look to themselves first for the solution to problems, and also should do one hell of a lot more to avoid them in the first place.

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by Lady's Human
Can we move the urinating contest back into PM land?



Pee biscuit, LH, pee biscuit.

Sign, yes...I will go back to my own world now. Plus, it's quittin' time at the salt mines....he he he

[RICHARD]

See what an evil thing that Viagra is???

-------------------------------------------------

ES,
The operating rooms/ER rooms are good portion of the 'profitable'
side of running a hospital..

I am sorry but I cannot give you an exact % as far as monies go....I'd say about 15-20% for meds and 'replacement parts'
another 50% in surgery costs and 30 in regular hospital stays.

---------------------------------------

For the record.......

SEX is what caused her get preggers and miscarry.

Not to look at what caused the hospital stay is kinda dumb.

Look at Peter Jennings.....he's got lung cancer and people will rip him an new arse for smoking and possibly bringing that on himself.

I do think that the situation was discussed with a llittle decorum.....no one was name calling or demeaning....

I was merely questioning the couple having relations without recognizing the possibility of an "Oopsie".....

It's more a question of maturity and responsibility.


LH,
Welcome back....


If it was Paris Hilton, Madonna or ????

I wouldn't give a flying handshake.......It's the nameless women in my life that are costing me money.......

Every once in a while I get behind a person who is paying for her groceries with food stamps......Now if I am paying for their food, I am paying for them to have more kids, and when the kids get sick they go see the doctor on MY DIME!!!!!

[lizbud]

Wow, I leave PT to take my dogs for a walk and look what
happens.:p

Sara, I'm very curious to know who sent you a nasty pm. I've
only had one in all my time here & I posted it ,as Johanna did,
and NEVER got another one.:D

[Edwina's Secretary]

The person was good enough to keep the beef between us personal so I'll respect her too and do the same....:)

[Animal Lover12]

Sorry IRescue452, but this comment just turned me off. If you don't like it here, there's no one stopping you from leaving and going to a country where poor college students get insurance just like everyone else.

I agree

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by popcornbird

That being said, whether you approve of a person's life choices or not, the doctor has no right to reject a patient who needs medical attention no matter what. Maybe some people do make irresponsible choices. That still doesn't give a doctor any right to reject them. Doctors are there to help people. Whether a person is single, married, male, female, whatever.......a person who needs medical attention IS a person who needs medical attention. If a women has a miscarriage, the doctor should be there to help her.....NOT help her based on whether she got pregnant by her husband, boyfriend, or in a rape. The doctor has no right to discriminate, period.



ANY physician can discriminate.

There are docs out there that will not prescribe BCPs or do an abortion if the patient comes to them in a non life threatening situation....

There have been times when I have seen a doctor "step aside" because they had some kind of prejudice.

It's totally different in an emergency situation. A physician is bound by medical ethics to provide care to an injured/ill patient

But there have been the occasions where a doc may bypass a car accident for one reason or another.

:confused: :rolleyes:

----------------------------------------------------

I just have to take this arguement down the political path once more- Now don't read this as a party line....I am pretty ignorant when it comes down to the Constitition, BOR and all the other
important documents that the country is built upon...


I know that there are people who want to blame GWB for every mess we go thru......

(I was starting to get suspicious about the earthquakes around the Indian Ocean.......)

He is the guy in charge but can we look at what gets the money spent here in America??

Before (in the old days, when politics was a gentleman's sport
:rolleyes: ) The parties worked together to get us ahead...Now it's just vitriol and stupidity that rules the roost.

BOTH PARTIES act like a bunch of spoiled a-holes if THEIR bill doesn't pass intact......it's a personal affront to all those fat, lazy
politicos if there is a line added, deleted or changed in a bill...

No room for negotiation anymore.....and that is what is screwing us up-

Take the healthcare reforms that Hill and Billary were trying to get going...the Republicans weren't gonna go for it unless there were changes, H and B weren't about to change anything so the whole process died.....who do we blame for not being able to compromise in the issue?

It goes back to responsibility.


---------------------------------

Yes, it's a ridiculous amount of money but let's move this into another realm....


Appendectomy,
Uterine Fibroids or menstrual hemorrhaging.
Motor Vehicle accident.


Those are emergency cases that with the exception of the MVA need surgery.

I just don't see anyone sitting on the ground, in front of the building, trying to decide to IF THEY HAVE THE MONEY to go in....

Harder yet to try and figure out if you can afford to take a loved one in because it's gonna be a hell of a bill later on.

------------------------------------------

Popcorn,

I just want to tweak you nose a little....

The Health care system in the US is FAR FROM pathetic.

Every few months you get a person that is brought into the U.S. for some specialized type of care....Why?

We do have cutting edge technology here.....

The billing and insurance issues need to be kept separate from the care and diagnostic issues.

Getting a bill from 18.000 dollars don't seem so bad when you realize that in some far flung places on the planet there are still women who do drop dead from blood loss because there are NO FACILITIES to give her a decent chance to live.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down.


;)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


P.s. I have noticed that there is way more sunlight left in the day when I leave work.......That's been going on since Sara and I have been in agreement....:D

[Lady's Human]

PCB, I have a good job, and trust me, my health insurance is FAR from free.

[carole]

Here in NZ it is similar to Britian, infact we have a reciprocal health agreement with them, in other words my son can get free treatment over there, especially ,as he has the right of abode, not sure about a true blue kiwi..but I think so.

Her treatment would be free here, we pay per item on a presciption, people as myself on a lower income are fortunate to have a community services card which allows us to pay three dollars per item instead of around 15, we also get cheaper doctor's fees.

I do however have private medical insurance, it is very hard for us to afford, but I consider it a priority, because the waiting list is too long in Public hospital, if I have something serious needing attention I will go private, it only covers surgical treatment and specialist visits if we have surgery,but it is better than nothing, it costs around 1200 dollars a year for my whole family.,it will get more expensive as we get older, and that is when the worry will be, can we afford it then?

At present I had to wait for my daughter to see a specialist through the public system, because of a cancellation we were able to get in after only waiting 2 mths, that is pretty good , and it was not something that needed urgent treatment, it just depends on what you are waiting for.

We are always strongly urged to take out insurance when we travel, especially via the states.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I hear it is suppose to rain later this week....

Richard....when exactly was this....


The parties worked together to get us ahead...Now it's just vitriol and stupidity that rules the roost

It began at the beginning. Adams and Jefferson. Heck, challenges to a duel were not unheard of.....There have been elections that would make the last couple look like junior high school in terms of viciousness and vitriol.

Let's talk the Civil War.....civil in this case does NOT mean they were being nice to each ohter....:D ;)

Devisiveness and stupidity aren't anything new....

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary


Let's talk the Civil War.....civil in this case does NOT mean they were being nice to each ohter....:D ;)

Devisiveness and stupidity aren't anything new....

It was just the secret handshakes and mysterious deals that I was talking about....I refer to the small 'give ins' that everyone made to get the machine rolling....

Not telling anyone to EFF off during a meeting.

Now we get CSPAN all day long and the elected officials are under a microscope. they can't afford a mistake....we'll see it minutes after and the poor oaf will spend the rest of his term trying to figure out how to get re-elected...

:rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

PCB....today....providing benefits to employees cost employers an average of 42%. In other words for every dollar employers pay in salary/wages there is another $0.42 they pay...on behalf of the employee in benefits. Your dad has been very, very lucky to always have employers who pay 100% of the insured benefit cost.

I was just with a client. Insurance cost per month for a single employee just over $600.00 per month. Ouch!

[tortuga55]

Originally posted by jennifert9
That's right and the reason I didn't post it here is because not everyone needs to be subjected to your opinionated, judgmental, over-sensitive spouting. Why do you always think that everyone is out to get you? You made your decision, get over it. If you have regrets bring them somewhere else to discuss them, not here on Pet Talk. If you want to discuss this further, we can do it out of the public eye so everyone here doesn't have to listen to it. Grow up.
And by the way, I have been a member here since 12/4/2001, long before you joined, and have just recently started posting again. So don't think for one second that you can make me leave or intimidate me by bullying me like you are on a playground or something. Stop following me around PetTalk. Don't you have anything better to do?

Sounds to me someone needs to take their own advise. I have said some things that I know not everyone agrees with, and others have said things I dont agree with. But to PM someone and attack them where others can not see, thats cold, wrong, against normall morals. When I saw Cataholic's name for a seciond I thought it said catholic, but I looked again and saw I was wrong. For the seciond I thought it was catholic I thought wow cool she's proud of her religion. When I found out I was wrong I thought wow cool she likes cats. I know some people dont like my opinions but what is a board for if not to post opinions to be debated by a wide diversity of people. If you dont like hearing others opinions, dont read them. You choose what you look at. She never forced you to read her opinion. O and if you think that now I am following you, stop flatering yourself I'm not.

[RICHARD]

Timely media stuff................

Last night I watched an interview with a pharmacist who refused to fill order for BCPs because of his religion...

(that's me in spot light losing my religion.....)

And this morning there was ANOTHER recall of a med....I forgot the name....because the side effects caused strokes, heart attacks and skin diseases...

The newscaster also mentioned that Celebrex has some side effect but it would NOT be recalled because the benefits 'outweighed the drawbacks'.....

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Timely media stuff................

Last night I watched an interview with a pharmacist who refused to fill order for BCPs because of his religion...


Must have been a guy from the Chicago area (forget exactly where). Don't remember all the details but it was a CVS Pharmacy. Their policy is that they leave it up to the individual pharamacist as to whether he will dispense certain drugs or not - according to his religion. I belive the Governor (or somebody) is now trying to make it a law in Illinois that no-one can refuse to dispense a drug - no matter what their reasoning (i.e. religion, race, sexual orientation, marital status or whatever).

[carole]

Richard I among other's here were quite distraught that Vioxx was withdrawn, I found it an excellent drug, with minimal side effects, luckily I was on average only taking 4 pills per month, I am now on Arcoxia, this has not been approved by the FDA, so you will not have this drug in USA , so I am told, but I am waiting for it to be withdrawn as well, it is only a matter of time, interesting fact that Celebrex has not been.

My blood pressure has risen, and is borderline these days, but I donot know if it is due to the drug I took, or whether it is because I gained some weight back that I had lost, when my blood pressure was quoted as being Excellent.

[caseysmom]

My mother dropped dead 2 months after starting celebrex...no problems before that...just be careful.

[sandragonfly]

one friend at her work (human hospital where I bumped into while visiting my grandfather) -- we were talking about bills and taxes -- she told me ANY nurse/doctor WALK IN that door where screaming preggie ANYTIME is (for ANY reason) costs you more than $3,000 PER. even her and I thought that was really crazy but that's how it is...now to most of hospitals. :(

[LKPike]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
Sorry IRescue452, but this comment just turned me off. If you don't like it here, there's no one stopping you from leaving

don't be rude. some of us really AREN'T allowed to leave, so don't assume everyone can, when you tell them to.

I'll pick Germany over america any day because thats where my heart is, and I believe its a thousand times better than America, but I'm sure you can say the same about the country you call home. The only thing worse to me than the fact that I cannot escape this "Great Country!" of yours for a couple more YEARS, is people like you that think its just that d@mn easy and feel the need to rub it in our [[people like me that ARE actually trying to get out of this country]] faces in your childish arguments with the comment "if you don't like it, then leave!". Have you ever tried to just "..Leave!"? its rude to me and all the others going through the Actual struggle of trying to just "Leave!".

Believe me, If I were allowed to, I'd be on the very first plane back to MY home, *right now*.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by LKPike
Have you ever tried to just "..Leave!"? its rude to me and all the others going through the Actual struggle of trying to just "Leave!".



It is kinda hard to leave, I don't have a passport.:confused:

[LKPike]

Originally posted by RICHARD
It is kinda hard to leave, I don't have a passport.:confused:

$80 and you wait a month. :p however it doesnt do me much good, when I have only 5-6 months to spend legally in my country, before I have to come back to "great" america.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by LKPike
$80 and you wait a month. :p however it doesnt do me much good, when I have only 5-6 months to spend legally in my country, before I have to come back to "great" america.

Well,

It really isn't the 'great' place we all think it is...but you have to admit we have given the world some really groovy stuff....

Tang, velcro, television and Disneyland...Not to mention Tomahawk cruise missles, JDAMs and F-117 planes..

[LKPike]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Well,

It really isn't the 'great' place we all think it is...but you have to admit we have given the world some really groovy stuff....

Tang, velcro, television and Disneyland...Not to mention Tomahawk cruise missles, JDAMs and F-117 planes..

lol its fine to look at it like that, I'm not bashing America or Americans or anything that they 'gave us'. I can't stay here because I'm not comfortable here, I'm in Germany as often as I can.
I don't like the lifestyle, I don't like the language, 5 churchs and 6 mcdonalds on 1 street, its just not Home for me. My mom wants to move back to Germany too, which would probably make it easier for me to "just leave". but after her ex-husband she developed agoraphobia. :( Good luck getting her to walk 8 feet away from her house, its impossible to even think of her on a plane :rolleyes:

[lbaker]

There are other countries and a private train car can help agoraphobia suffering people. I have heard of "having the cake and eating it too" but it sounds like your licking the icing bowl clean then complaining of a tummy ache.

[LKPike]

Originally posted by lbaker
There are other countries and a private train car can help agoraphobia suffering people.

????? I don't see how that does ANY good when the agoraphobic person can't even leave their front door????

[lbaker]

If the house were on fire you would manage, would you not?

[LKPike]

Originally posted by lbaker
If the house were on fire you would manage, would you not?
I'd manage because I'm not agoraphobic. I don't think you really understand the disease.

[lbaker]

I don't think you really understand America and the American people. I mean no personal offense and certainly don't want to start anything. I apologise if I sound a bit testy.

[LKPike]

Originally posted by lbaker
I don't think you really understand America and the American people. I mean no personal offense and certainly don't want to start anything. I apologise if I sound a bit testy.

LOL Yeah, I can't apologize enough for my family moving to America in 1965, I can't apologize enough for my mother raising me the same way she was raised, and the same way my grandmother was raised, my greatgrandmother, my greatgreatgrandmother, - German.

But I've lived here 17 years. Get real, Find another person to argue with, over real issues.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by LKPike

I don't like the lifestyle, I don't like the language, 5 churchs and 6 mcdonalds on 1 street, its just not Home for me. My mom wants to move back to Germany too, which would probably make it easier for me to "just leave"


As hosts to people from other countries it doesn't give us a great feeling when our "guests" stay in our home and then relate to us that they are not happy here.

Most people would be amazed that there can be 5 churches and 6 Mc donalds on one street.

That is the real evil America.......freedom of religion, capitalism and the Lady that stands in the New York harbor....welcoming the world to her doorstep.

When my dad showed up at America's doorstep he taught us to be thankful that we live where we do.

And he also taught us that as a guest of this country, years before he became a citizen, that he may not have agreed with what America was all about, He also taught us to be gracious, as a guest of the U.S.

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by LKPike
$80 and you wait a month. :p however it doesnt do me much good, when I have only 5-6 months to spend legally in my country, before I have to come back to "great" america.


I don't understand. Why can't you leave? Are you a US citizen? I don't really get all hung up that you don't like it here. I mean, I don't take it as a personal affront to all things American. But, if I was truly unhappy somewhere, I would leave. So, could you educate me as to WHY you can't just leave?

[gini]

Oh boy, I rarely do this.............but I feel I must............

I was born here..........long time ago..........in a small town in Ohio.

I LOVE MY COUNTRY!!

Not just a little --- but PASSIONATELY!

No, we don't have it all nailed down and perfect..........but we try...........and we welcome people from all over the world who are willing to try as well.

Let me think - well, no, there aren't six McD's on my block or even six churches...........but within easy walking distance there are several Christian churches, a mosque, a temple - I could take my pick of several religions. We all manage to get along.

McD's - yes - there are those along with Carls's Jr. and Bob's Big Boy and a dozen pizza shops - take your pick.

Life style? How about I lead my life style according to my beliefs, and allow you the FREEDOM to live your life style as you choose.
If you have ever traveled around this beautiful country you will encounter so many different life styles your head will spin.

Let's see - I can go shopping and the corner grocery store is run by Pakistani's- the 7-11 is run by people from India. They made a huge improvement - the store is now glistening and clean.
Around the other corner the big grocery store is run by Koreans............or the other larger store - a chain - has someone from a different country at each check-out stand.

Wait, you don't speak English? Let us help you - we will teach you in your native tongue and English. Please don't lose your heritage - it is something to be proud of. Some of the schools have a total of 59 different languages..........yes, that number is correct.

We welcome them all....................

You have a great new idea for a product or service - go for it..........we will encourage you - help you financially and support you.

Whenever I see license plates that say 'I LOVE __________ (fill in the country), I do get upset. You have complete FREEDOM to love that country, but I wonder WHY ARE YOU HERE? Something not quite right back home?

Nope, we don't have it down to perfect yet - and many things are a mess - but we have the FREEDOM to complain - vote out the guys/gals who made the mess in the first place and hopefully get it right.

It means I have to get off my duff - pull myself away from the computer and VOTE and GET INVOLVED. That is what I do as just one person in hopes that I can help make it better.

My family came from Germany in 1856 - never heard one word about any of them going back...............they stayed here - worked hard - made a lot of contributions in hopes that with their new found FREEDOM they could make a difference and they have. I am proud of that heritage - I am strong - because they were too -and they gave me that legacy.

I as a woman, can own my own home, run my own business, do as I please............and I AM GRATEFUL. Each and every single day I am grateful that I was born an American.

Now, the fact that a young woman's miscarriage cost her $18,000. is still an outrage in my mind. Our healthcare system needs to be corrected - overhauled - made more affordable - get the lawyers out of it - and let Doctor's practice their calling as ethically and honestly as they can and make a decent living doing just that.

But even with our failings - I don't plan on moving out of this country any time soon - no, it is my RIGHT to try to make it better for the generations to come.

(gets off soapbox)

[lizbud]

Originally posted by Cataholic
I don't understand. Why can't you leave? Are you a US citizen? I don't really get all hung up that you don't like it here. I mean, I don't take it as a personal affront to all things American. But, if I was truly unhappy somewhere, I would leave. So, could you educate me as to WHY you can't just leave?


This is pretty much how I feel too. After all, it's your mother who
is the agoraphobic, not you. If you are that miserable and you're
an adult, why not? Just curious.

[LKPike]

#1 I wont be an adult for 11 more days, which is the main problem, money being the second biggest problem as I'm sure all you mature people know, its not a cheap thing to do. #2, your all acting as if I just bashed this country, which I didn't do. In fact I said: "lol its fine to look at it like that, I'm not bashing America or Americans or anything that they 'gave us'."

If your trying to get me to feel so sorry for you all, tough. but Hey! I'm sure theres a few other nice people online for you all to b**ch at, because they publicly took pride in their countries and homes. ;)

[[so I'll say again, don't be so rude, or childish. You have your opinion and you can say it but it doesn't have to be snotty, especially when I've stayed polite in my responses. I was snitty in my first response because I believe it WAS rude of T&P's Mom to say what she did. ]]

[gini]

Originally posted by caseysmom
My mother dropped dead 2 months after starting celebrex...no problems before that...just be careful.

This is just too strange...........I just heard this afternoon that a good friend's stepfather passed away very suddenly.

He had been on Celebrex for one month.

[sandragonfly]

yea..we only have one earth, world is us all. living on earth can be so expensive but you got a free trip around the sun every year! :) with anywho (skins, furries, scales)... anywhere (land, water, air)... anyhow (walk, boat, drive)... anytime (morning, afternoon, evening)... anyday (day, month, year)... after you play so hard with this planet challenges (politics, insurances, taxes, wages ...and such) but hang on with your freedom, civil rights and heart!

[carole]

To be quite frank Lpike, I find your comments rude, and I am not even an american, there is one thing that really grates on my nerves is when a foreigner comes to my country and does nothing but complain about it, my feelings are GO HOME.

You may well be feeling homesick, but to come online and say what you have like you have amazes me, you go on about Tubby and Peanuts comments being rude, well just look at your's.

When one goes to another country to live, you should embrace that country, its people, its language, its culture, its way of doing things, of course some are not going to be to your taste, but if you cannot do any of the above or most, how on earth can you become accepted or feel that accepted, you get as much back as you put in.

I am an immigrant as well, although my situation differs as I have been her most of my life from a baby, but still I could decide to favour the land of my birth and find distaste with my present country, but I chose not to , because I want to be a New Zealander, who also is proud to be Scottish too, one can be both, you can be a US citizen and proud and a German and be proud.

Just a further comment regarding Agrophobia, it is a very difficult illness to understand, but until you are one you cannot possibly understand completely, as your mother has this, you can have a fairly good understanding of it, I have a girlfriend with this, it is an unfair statement to say, if the house was on fire you would get out wouldn't you? of course she would, that is not what agrophobia is all about, it is not just about the fear of leaving one's home, it is far more complex than that.

[lbaker]

I told you I meant nothing personal in my comments LKPike and in fact apologised if I sounded "testy". I think your reply to me WAS "snotty" and rude. My mother was German and except for my brother, son & daughter my only living relatives are German, living in Germany.. they would be appalled at your comments.

[LKPike]

Originally posted by carole
To be quite frank Lpike, I find your comments rude, and I am not even an american, there is one thing that really grates on my nerves is when a foreigner comes to my country and does nothing but complain about it, my feelings are GO HOME.


It wasn't MY choice to be here, are you not reading correctly? "struggle to leave... #1 problem, #2 problem.."??

LBAKER - This argument has NOTHING to do with you. YOU wished to talk about my mothers mental health in a very matter-of-fact way which I did NOT appreciate. Or do you not remember? You people have nothing better to do than pick at each other all day. Keep up with the responses, if you wish to make an actual point.

[Cataholic]

So, LKPike, you are 17 years old. I had somewhat suspected you were young. You were raised in this country, correct? From birth? What doesn't follow are the following: statements about only being able to be gone 5-6 months at a time (aren't you in school somewhere over here? With 3 months break, at max?). You next mention money, a concern most of us have (so, how is it that you have done any extensive travelling? Certainly not with a mother that has such a condition).

It is one thing to dislike where you are, but, from my perspective, you are suffering a bit from the old 'the grass is always greener...'. I can't see how you have much lived anywhere else but here.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your explanation. So, please go on.

[LKPike]

Originally posted by Cataholic
So, LKPike, you are 17 years old. I had somewhat suspected you were young. You were raised in this country, correct? From birth? What doesn't follow are the following: statements about only being able to be gone 5-6 months at a time (aren't you in school somewhere over here? With 3 months break, at max?). You next mention money, a concern most of us have (so, how is it that you have done any extensive travelling? Certainly not with a mother that has such a condition).

It is one thing to dislike where you are, but, from my perspective, you are suffering a bit from the old 'the grass is always greener...'. I can't see how you have much lived anywhere else but here.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your explanation. So, please go on.

I've been homeschooled since 1998, I travel every 5-6 months thanks to my 2 cousins and uncle in Germany.

[Cataholic]

Oh, I see. Thanks for the explanation. It just didn't seem to fit if you were in a traditional school setting.

[carole]

I think perhaps you are suffering from the Grass is greener syndrome, I say that because even though you go to Germany a few times a year, it is basically on holiday, there sure is a huge difference to being a tourist than actually living in a country.

The best thing for you to do is save up hard and move back there, since you consider the home you have lived in for most of your young life not up to standard, I am curious what is it about America that you dislike so? gosh there are people out there who would give anything to live in such a beautiful country, with so much to offer., no country is perfect ya know, as you will soon find out on your return to Germany.

I just hope you realise how blessed you are to live in a land with so much opportunity and to have the choice to live in another land with equal beauty and opportunity's.

I really think LPike there are way's of saying some things, and what you have said here even I would take offfence to if it were about my country, I think most people here have been very polite to you considering your comments.

[Uabassoon]

I travel every 5-6 months thanks to my 2 cousins and uncle in Germany.

When you travel how long are you there? Have you ever held a job there? Had to deal with their medical system? Benefits? Insurance? Government?

I'm not aruging with you, but I find it hard to imagine how one could think something is so great with only having visited it.

I've traveled a lot and have fallen in love with most of the countries I've visted. Especially Trinidad, I go as often as possible and have an amazing time every time I've ever visited. But when I sitdown and think about it I know I could never live there.

Here in the US, I work a simple job (Starbucks). Yet, I'm able to afford my own apartment, computer, cable television, I have good medical and dental insurance, air conditioning, car, I can vote and many other great things. I can rent or buy any home I want (assuming I have the money) regardless of my gender, skin color or sexual preference. I know that in many countries I wouldn't be able to have half of those things.

My partner and I have talked about moving to Germany in a few years because she wants to teach English there. If I go I will embrace their culture, I know I will not like things, but I would never bash them.

I think unless you have actually lived (rented or owned) and worked someplace else it's hard to get a full understanding of how things work.

[IRescue452]

I'm glued in Wisconsin. I don't know when the Blackfoot tribe came to America, but it was a long, long time ago. My family (the three current living generations) has never moved out of state, in fact I've only traveled to Florida once and to Minnesota twice in my lifetime. My roots are here and I know how to live here. If I moved out of the country I wouldn't have anybody with me and I wouldn't know how anybody lives. Moving to a new culture takes a lot of effort, not to mention funds that I don't have. I was asked to move to Malawi for five years but I said I'd be dead in a week out of sheer terror of being in a completely alien place. When I say I would love for our health system to change a bit I don't mean I'd like to move to a new country and neither does anybody else. When you guys go through school for sociology and to study stratification you will realize how primitive our health system is and you won't tell people to move to another country when they complain until then I think that these complaints are more than legitimized and you guys shouldn't be so angry about them

[lbaker]

Having thought it over I really think LKPike has more serious personal issues to deal with than the state of health care in the U.S. I'm sorry I even ruffled feathers.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by lbaker
Having thought it over I really think LKPike has more serious personal issues to deal with than the state of health care in the U.S. I'm sorry I even ruffled feathers.

Ditto and if she wants out so bad, I sure hope she is able to work that out once she turns 18. Would hate to keep her here against her will, health care or no health care. :rolleyes:

[IRescue452]

Ok breathe. It sounds like we are all suffering asshole syndrome where we all bash each other's heads in and its becoming quite childish. We all just need to step down for a minute and open our minds a bit and realize that everybody has their problems and yelling at anyone to just "deal with it" is not always the best solution for that situation. The original post was to speak out about the health care system in America and I'm sure gini didn't want to start a blood bash.

[lbaker]

Since when is apologizing "asshole syndrome"?

[IRescue452]

I was not speaking only of you

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by lizbud
This is pretty much how I feel too. After all, it's your mother who
is the agoraphobic, not you. If you are that miserable and you're
an adult, why not? Just curious.

It's b/c she ISN"T an adult. According to her profile she is only 17 altho she has lived a life wayyyyyy beyond her years if you read her other posts.

That being said - I can't believe I just sat here and read this whole thread. Such a glutton for punishment I am. I normally stay out of the dog house as I try to stay out of trouble. Altho it seems to find me quite often.
:eek:

Going to go plug in a Feliway and take a shower......

[shais_mom]

I was talking with my 87 year old neighbor this afternoon. He has had some recent health problems. Spent 6 days in the hospital was home for about 2 weeks and spent another 6 in there.
The dr has put him on some kind of medicine - he didn't tell me what it was and for 60 pills it cost - get this




$999!!!!! He went to the veteren's place where he gets some of his meds and they didn't carry it, he went to another town about 20 minutes away and their price was



$1400 and the pharmacist wouldn't even take his perscription b/c when they told him where they could get it cheaper he told them to go there.

so he went to the first place and got it for $50 off!!!
so he still paid $949 for 60 pills!