Shame On Canada

[lizbud]

For letting this cruel, barbarous practice continue.:( :mad:


from the March 18, 2005 edition

Make this year's seal hunt the last

By Rebecca Aldworth

MONTREAL – Right now, seals are giving birth to their pups on the ice floes off Canada's East Coast. The seal nursery that forms is one of the greatest wildlife spectacles on Earth. The sun gleams across icy landscapes and open water, the only sounds are the soft cries of the newborn seals. In this magical scene, serene mother seals lie contentedly and peacefully with their nursing pups.
It is a sight that tourists from across the globe pay thousands of dollars for the privilege of witnessing - one that brings substantial revenue to coastal communities in eastern Canada.



But just days later, the peace of the ice is shattered as seal hunters descend on the defenseless pups, and the nursery is turned into an open-air slaughterhouse.

Beginning in the last week of March, hundreds of thousands of seal pups will be clubbed and shot to death in Canada's annual commercial seal hunt. It is an industrial-scale slaughter that targets the animals for their fur, and leaves their carcasses to rot on the ice. With more than 300,000 pups allowed to be killed this year, it has become the largest slaughter of marine mammals on earth.

Though while I was growing up in a Newfoundland fishing community, like most Canadians, I never saw the seal hunt. The slaughter of harp and hooded seals is something that occurs far offshore on the ice floes - well away from the eyes of the public.

But for the past six years, I have traveled to the ice floes and observed the seal hunt at close range.

The majority of the seals killed are less than one month old; these pups, newly separated from their mothers, are defenseless and have no escape. And they are treated brutally. In 2001, an independent team of veterinarians was escorted to the ice floes by the International Fund for Animal Welfare. They studied Canada's commercial seal hunt at close range. Their report concluded that up to 42 percent of the seals they studied had probably been skinned alive while conscious - a clear violation of Canada's criminal code and marine mammal regulations that govern the hunt.

The violent images of the hunt - gunshots, clubbings, and the sounds of animals in pain - are vivid memories I can never erase. I carry them with me as I work to end this slaughter. And it is my hope that goal is finally within reach.

Sealing is an off-season activity conducted by a few thousand fishermen from Canada's East Coast. According to media reports and government data, they make, on average, only 5 percent of their total incomes from sealing - the rest comes from commercial fisheries.

When the first pup is clubbed or shot to death on the ice at the end of March, the Humane Society of the United States, with a network of powerful organizations that includes the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and the Born Free Foundation, will launch a global boycott of Canadian seafood.

We are asking Americans not to buy Canadian seafood products, such as snow crabs, until the commercial seal hunt is ended for good. American consumers can easily identify Canadian seafood products, which are labeled clearly in all major grocery stores.

Such a boycott - if well supported - would show the Canadian government and fishing industry that continuing the seal hunt is not worth the potential impact of this campaign.

As I and many others leave for the ice floes next week to again bear witness to this slaughter, we are asking Americans to stand with the Humane Society of the United States in our campaign to save the seals.

Together, we can put this cruel, outdated slaughter back into the history books where it belongs.

• Rebecca Aldworth is director of Canadian wildlife issues for the Humane Society of the United States.

[KYS]

I've have seen the clubing on past TV documentary and
it makes me sick.
I can't bare to watch it. I hope all countries that practice
this type of hunting ban it.

[Cataholic]

I saw this on the US Humane soceity site. HOW can anyone do this? It is shameful. I pray that this will be the last.

[QueenScoopalot]

It sickens me beyond words. :( :mad: :( :mad: :(

[Jods]

yeah at least you don't have to live here:( :(

[king2005]

I recall reading an artical talking about why Canada allows the hunt.

Ther r not enough predators on those ice flows to keep the seal population down.

The seals are over populated & eating too many sea creatures (fish) & rish the faster extinction on Cod.

The only thing I dissagree with is leaving the bodies there. They should start a program to collect the bodies & send them to an area where polar bears r. That'll help the bears out & it'll help the fox out as well.



just think of how over populated the seals would be if the 300,000 wasn't killed / year. It would be crazy.

Just look at the Ottawa deer population. Its really bad. Deer r everywhere & many r thin. the trees in the bush r stripped bare. There just isn't enough food & WAY too many deer.

It was a couple years back that 5000 female deer tags were not used near Ottawa. Now those deer have 1-2 babies & then those deer have babies. Its like that cat chart. It starts off as 2 & ends at over population.

I know people don't like to hear it, but some animals do need to be hunted (for food not sport, I'm against sport/head hunters).

Its all our fault for killing so many wolves & cougars & not allowing bow hunting within city limits.

Ottawa is a Mega city. It merged with surounding towns & cities. & inbetween many & pretty much all towns was a LOT of forest. Why can't bow hunters hunt there?? ther r NO people in there, only too many deer.


over population = lose of plantlife (if the deer ear too much bark all the way around a tree, it'll kill the whole tree).
Its means illness & lots of wasted animals roting everywhere & the illness could be passed onto cattle (cattle doesn't mean cows in Canada, it means 1-2 hoved farm animals).

Just look at how many times they've had to kill Bisson herds due to over popullation causeing illness, which WILL be passed onto cattle.

[KYS]

It is the practice of clubbing that I am very much against.
Very cruel and inhuman practice. If you need to keep
the seal population down, at least do it in a human way.

[king2005]

Think the butchering of farm animals is any nicer?

Think when a Hyena is eating its pray screaming at the top of its lungs, while its being hollowed out is nice?

Its culture. Sometimes it sucks, but thats how things go.

[todd]

STOP giveing us in canada a hard time way do you hat us in canada :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[king2005]

Originally posted by todd
STOP giveing us in canada a hard time way do you hat us in canada :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

No one said they "hated" us. They just "disagree" on what part of our culture does.

Please read carfully before freaking out. Makes u look immature.

----
Seems like a perfect time to sing

Blame Canada

Sheila: Time's have changed
Our kids are kids are getting worse
They wont obey their parents
They just want to fart and curse!
Sharon: Should we blame the government?
Liane: Or blame society?
Dads: Or should we blame the images on TV?
Sheila: No, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame Canada
Sheila: With all their beady little eyes
And flappin heads so full of lies
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Sheila: We need to form a full assault
Everyone: It's Canadas fault!
Sharon: Don't blame me
For my son Stan
He saw the darn cartoon
And now he's off to join the Klan!
Liane: And my boy Eric once
Had my picture on his shelf
But now when I see him he tells me to **** myself!
Sheila: Well, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame Canada
It seems that everythings gone wrong
Since Canada came along
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Some Guy: There not even a real country anyway
Ms. McCormick: My son could've been a doctor or a lawyer it's true
Instead he burned up like a piggy on a barbecue
Everyone: Should we blame the matches?
Should we blame the fire?
Or the doctors who allowed him to expire?
Sheila: Heck no!
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Sheila: With all their hockey hubbabaloo
Liane: And that ***** Anne Murray too
Everyone: Blame Canada
Shame on Canada
The smut we must stop
The trash we must smash
Laughter and fun
must all be undone
We must blame them and cause a fuss
Before someone thinks of blaming uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus

By: South Park

I removed some not so nice words.

If anyone wants to hear the song (its really funny) I have it on my website, all you have to do is PM me for the link

[lizbud]

There is no over population of seals. Anyone who wants to
know the real facts and what we can do to protest this senseless
cruel practice can get info here;

http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/facts_about_the_canadian_seal_hunt.html




p.s. King2005,

Have you also posted under the name Kingrattus (the crazy
canadian)? Just curious.

[bluekat]

It makes me sick to think of it:( Very sad. I've seen documentaries on it too and I just couldn't bare to watch. I really don't understand why people couldn't find a less painful way to kill these animals. *sighs* but I guess that's just how our world is.

[Jods]

Don't get me wrong I love Canada, I live here and its beautiful but there are quite a few things we do that I'm ashamed of and this is one of them. :(

[tortuga55]

Before you judge Canada look at your own culture, yes it is sad but the population is to big, white coats (babys) are not allowed to be killed, and if they are being killed then its the people not the gov. The idea that you would bash Canada when the United States has done the same type of thing if not worse, is sick. Dont judge the splinter in anothers eye, when you have a log in your own. Visit these:
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=fur_farm
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=bea_kfc
http://www.iamscruelty.com/iams-video.asp
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=marine-mammals
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=hog_dog_general
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=baltimore_dog
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=yadkin_county
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=charlize-theron-pupply-mill
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=village_vet
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=columbia_primates

[king2005]

tortuga55, this isn't I hate Canada type of thread. Its only talking about 1 issue.

Attacking their whole country isn't going to go well. & using PETA as proof is just asking for trubble. PETA isn't really respected on this site. alot (if not all) of its info is wrong (including making the story sound worse, then it really is).


yes it is sad but the population is to big, white coats (babys) are not allowed to be killed, and if they are being killed then its the people not the gov.

Theres some good info. do u have the site that states that white coats cannot be killed?? It would help out this argument. Also knowing the age of a white coat is good too :)

[tortuga55]

I used PETA because they were the only site with graphic videos. I also do not agree with all of Peta's claims. Especially guilt tripin people into being vegitarians. I want people to realize that picking on one nation does little, it is the world in whole that needs to change. Including the United States. Because I live near the American border I hear a lot of crap aimed at Canadians. My dad along with hundreds of others lost their jobs when the states did not whant to buy milled wood from Canada. I guess I am a bit bitter because all the rumors I hear about my country comes from the States. My dad is a logger and I always hear mean comments about his job. When I was little a kid I knew came up to me and said he hated my dad for cutting down trees, being a smart mouth I replied, well then I guess you live in a plastic bubble, and wipe your bum with plastic eh? Its not that I dont have feelings towards animals and nature, I have always been an enviromentalist. But I realize there is a balnce, and in order for the fish to survive the seals must be controled. Would you prefere them cought in nets/cages carted of somewhere and then shot or druged. Canada is not the only country who catches the seals food supply, it just so happens that the animals directly effected by the decrease in food live in canada. I prefer them being managed now instead of slowly starving latter. Boycaughting the fishing industry will only make matters worse, but people started this problem so I believe the numbers of fish cought should be controled. Overall I agree that the seals are not to blame for the lack of fish, and it is sad they have to be killed for our greed. Polution and over fishing are the causes of the decreasing numbers of fish. If we change the way we as consumers live then we can change the way seals and other animals live. Our polution is shiped to other countries and dumped in their oceans, the world is a closed loop it will come back to haunt us.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/misc/seal_briefing_e.htm
its on slide 4 whitecoats are seals under 2 weeks of age.

Sorry if effended anyone, I am tired of having the finger pointed at Canada when other countries are just as bad if not worse.

[king2005]

wow, that site was great!!!

I read the whole thing.

Its amazing all the research & care they put into making sure the animals die quickly, humane & check the animals to make sure they have died.

Canada even let the WWF & other groups to give their imput to make sure it was being done properly & not harming the species.

There r also alot of rules these guys have to fallow. That site made me approve of the hunt even more. I had no idea that much thought, care & planing was put into it.


tortuga55, I don't think loggers r bad anymore. they have come a long way to take & replace (in canada anyways). Have u seen the NS logging place?? dang its HUGE, I thought it was gonna take forever to drive past it. I also saw lots of baby trees in the area too. My aunt doesn't live too far from it.

I like to hear the good & bad & decide for myself if whats being done is good or bad. I also understand that sometimes not sonice things have to be done to protect the species & surounding species.

We are part of nature. its our job to destroy it & replace it. thats what we do.

[tortuga55]

The company my dad worked for planted five trees for every one cut down. When I was little I did not understand what my dad did for a living and whould ask him why those people (workers trimming trees by power lines) were hurting the trees? He never got mad at me about my opinions on logging and I have done tones of research on logging practices in BC. I have been in logging trucks and at logging sites, including inside the grapel lodder watching my dad work. The deforistation of the tropical rainforests really bugs me because they are not in many cases replanted. The area on the other side of the lake where my dad worked was turned into a Grizzly Bear Reserve, so the company was not able to log in that area. No one ever complained, its a huge lake with enough room for all species to co-exist. I dont know what NS stands for.
One cause that I really like is the Canadian Red Wolf, people are not allowed to hunt them. But once the law was passed someone whent out and killed a radio collared wolf and nailed its head to a pole. 166 left.
I also hate peole killing tigers. The tigers are pocked to death with sticks, even though the hunters carry guns. WWF has a video of it shot by the hunters, when I saw it I cried and held Sandy so tight. Sandy is my fat cat she looks like a little tiger, acts like one too.
I would love to take a year or so before university to go and work with scientists in ontario studying the Red Wolf. Working for WWF or National Geograohic would be fun, but also so hard. But they probrably would not want me I would be prone to start beating on people who wanted to or had killed a wolf or other endangered species.
I also dislike how other countries dump bilg oil into canadian waters killing hundreds of thousands of sea birds each year. The birds die slowly from hypothermia and starvation. http://www.wwf.ca/NewsAndFacts/NewsRoom/Supplemental/Battleofthebilge.pdf

[king2005]

Originally posted by tortuga55
The company my dad worked for planted five trees for every one cut down. When I was little I did not understand what my dad did for a living and whould ask him why those people (workers trimming trees by power lines) were hurting the trees? He never got mad at me about my opinions on logging and I have done tones of research on logging practices in BC. I have been in logging trucks and at logging sites, including inside the grapel lodder watching my dad work. The deforistation of the tropical rainforests really bugs me because they are not in many cases replanted. The area on the other side of the lake where my dad worked was turned into a Grizzly Bear Reserve, so the company was not able to log in that area. No one ever complained, its a huge lake with enough room for all species to co-exist. I dont know what NS stands for.
One cause that I really like is the Canadian Red Wolf, people are not allowed to hunt them. But once the law was passed someone whent out and killed a radio collared wolf and nailed its head to a pole. 166 left.
I also hate peole killing tigers. The tigers are pocked to death with sticks, even though the hunters carry guns. WWF has a video of it shot by the hunters, when I saw it I cried and held Sandy so tight. Sandy is my fat cat she looks like a little tiger, acts like one too.
I would love to take a year or so before university to go and work with scientists in ontario studying the Red Wolf. Working for WWF or National Geograohic would be fun, but also so hard. But they probrably would not want me I would be prone to start beating on people who wanted to or had killed a wolf or other endangered species.
I also dislike how other countries dump bilg oil into canadian waters killing hundreds of thousands of sea birds each year. The birds die slowly from hypothermia and starvation. http://www.wwf.ca/NewsAndFacts/NewsRoom/Supplemental/Battleofthebilge.pdf

I assumed u lived in Canada since u were defending it.

NS = Nova Scotia
NB= New Brunswick
NFLD= Newfoundland
PEI= Prince Edward Island
PQ= Qubec
ON= Ontario
MAN= Manatoba
SK= Saskatchewan
AB= Alberta
BC= British Columbia

[tortuga55]

I do live in Canada, I have never been to Nova Scotia. I am on the other side of the country, where they have trees thicker than a person, and I will defend my country until it does something horrible that I do not agree with. One day I hope to take over:p (ok maybe not take over just get elected) and change some things like.....
The first thing I would do is cut politicians pay cheques down to $0, they are serving their country not making a living.
Gas who needs it not me. Pollution sucks, people are gready. Electricitys the way.
Manufactures in other countries should pay their employes canadian min wage.
Manufactures should abide to Canadian enviromental codes no matter where they ship their crap.
Harder enviromental codes, cause its obviously not workin.
To clean up the mess of the past companies should pay for the costs of cleaning up their mess.
Everything that posibly can be recyclable should be, food containers ect. Do you really need your chocolate bar wrapers to last forever?
Food should be composted. Every city should have a comunity compost, supported by the selling of the soil.
There should be trees in every back yard.
Cows, pigs, chickens should be fed grain not each other.
No growth hormones, in food animals.
Anything with Endangered Animals as a ingredient will not be allowed to enter the country.
Better animal laws, no tiny cages, bad treatment, no importing animals who lived in conditions that are against canadian law.

I would make these changes gradually. People would hate me but like children people will not change unless they are made to. By "take over" its a joke. I would get elected, then change stuff. The only problem is in Canada the opposing partys can get rid of you if they dont like you. I think the pay cheque thing would make them mad. The switching over of cars to hybrids is moving a little to slow, all new cars should be hybrids or fully electric cars. If companys could not make gas cars hybrids would evolve a lot faster. If canada moves away from gas first before other countrys it would save us money when gas is almost all gone, and when there is a mad rush for hybrids.

[manda_moo87]

Originally posted by Jods
yeah at least you don't have to live here:( :(


Ditto. :(

[lizbud]

Rebecca Aldworth is keeping a journal of this years killing of
the seals. Two entries so far, Mar10 The calm before the storm
and Mar23, Sunning with the seals. It is so peaceful now.

http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/rebecca_aldworths_journal/

[tortuga55]

Originally posted by Jods
yeah at least you don't have to live here:( :(
Why in the world would you say that:eek::mad:

[tortuga55]

Originally posted by todd
STOP giveing us in canada a hard time way do you hat us in canada :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Don't worry you are not imature I got the feeling they were bashing Canada too.

[todd]

Thanks glad IM not the only one



Originally posted by tortuga55
Don't worry you are not imature I got the feeling they were bashing Canada too.

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

I also live in Canada and do not see how you think that this thread was made to bash Canada lol. I certainly don't see it that way anyway. I do believe the whole Seal hunting thing is ridiculous though:( I think it's horrible how anyone could do that to an animal:(:mad:

edited to add: I do think the thread title could've been worded differently....

[tortuga55]

Its even worse not to.

[bluekat]

Originally posted by tortuga55
Don't worry you are not imature I got the feeling they were bashing Canada too.

Same here.

I really don't understand why some of you don't like living in Canada. IMO, I think its one of the best countries to live in, and I'm proud of Canada.

And yea, we're not the only country who does this. All countries in the world have animal cruelty.

Sure the seal hunting thing is cruel, but I'm sure if you do some research on other countries you'll probably find the same kind of thing.

[carole]

I cannot understand why anyone would take this so personally, all countries including my own do things we are not proud of, or agree with, just because other countries do similar things or worse does not justify it in any way IMO.

I would be the first person to stand up against my own country that condoned cruelty to animals of any kind, as I see it, most people are objecting to the way in which it is done, not so much that it is done, if there is an over-population as you state then maybe it is necessary, but humanely is all most animal lovers ask.

Our government has not ruled out the keeping of battery hens, it was up for debate recently, and I am apalled this practice is being allowed to continue,my girlfriend recently rescued a few battery hens, you only have to see one against her healthy free range hens to know this is wrong and cruel, luckily they will have a great life producing eggs, and not even make it to the dinner table, changing the subject a little here, but my point is everyone should IMO be prepared to stand up against their own country regardless when it comes to any kind of animal cruelty.

[king2005]

Canada has done research to make sure the seals r dying quickly. I don't see how thats animal cruility. The government has made all sorts of rules on how & what can be used to kill a seal.

Before any hunter is allowed to hunt they must be trained/work with a trainer for 2years to make sure its being done properly.

The hunter cannot leave the seal until he checks to make sure its dead. once its dead he can go after another seal.

How many slaughter houses are made to make sure the animal is dead before cutting it, plucking it or dipping it into hot water? Its not part of the law. It should be, but it isn't.

How about the treatment of chickens, ther is NO law saying that chickens need space, fresh air, & what not.

IMO the seals r being treated alot better then our dinner.


However I do dissagree with just leaving the seal bodies on the snow & ice. They should be collected & moved to shore where Polar Bears & Arctic Foxes can feed on them.

Also its not just any kind of seal they can hunt & in any place.

Canada is doing its best to make the hunt go as well as it can.

Now Canada has to smarted up on our Cattle & Hens. they need rules/rights too.

[tortuga55]

Exactly. It would not help polar bears to provide them with dead seals. You know how you are suppost to play dead when attacked by a bear. Its because bears do not usually (there are exeptions to every rule) eat food that they have not killed. Also all that meat would only encourage the polar bears to become dependent on people feeding them plus there is the cost of moving all the dead seals. The smell of people on the meat would also encorage them to acociate people with free food. Killer whales and sharks probrably eat some of the dead seals if they end up in the water when they are around. Sea birds like gulls probly eat some too. Arctic foxes are scavengers and are suppost to be on the ice flows.

The title "Shame on Canada" its kinda bashing. Of course we would take the negative attitude of the thread personally. If I went into the states and said anything even remotly negative about their gov, or anything allong that line even as a joke I would get the crap kick out of me. My grandparents got threatened when their Canadian flag was higher than the American flag on their trailer even by mear millimeters. I only used the states as an example because I live 11 kilometers from the border.

[king2005]

ummm Polar Bears r hunters, scavengers & will eat their own kind when there is little food.

Prentending to be dead doesn't work for the reasons ur thinking of.

Playing dead works when a bear is attacking u cause u P'ed it off. When u stop moving, ur no longer a threat, so the bear walks off.

Playing dead with a hungry bear = easy meal.

Regular Bears eat alot of berries, nuts, greens, veggies, roots, fish when its around.

Polar bears eat mostly meat, fresh or not. They will also eat greens when its around.


I watch too much Animal Planet.

[Jods]

I also posted this:

QUOTE
Don't get me wrong I love Canada, I live here and its beautiful but there are quite a few things we do that I'm ashamed of and this is one of them.

....and I really do love living here. In my town there is hardly any crimes, violence etc. Its just something a stupid and barbaric thing they are doing to those seals. I don't agree with it for whatever reason! Well I think there are too many humans so should we beat them all to death? ITS DISGUSTING and YES I'm ashamed of Canada for allowing this BS to happen. Same with the deer culls and the pitt bull bans.

No one here is bashing Canada, but in the US whenever something horrible happens we're the first to jump down their throats as well. Canada is great just stupid sometimes. Just like every other country. There is always something everywhere that people aren't to proud of. No where is perfect for everyone. Whats perfect for me might be horrid for you.

edited to add: honestly though I didn't quite like the title of the thread either so I hear you there.

[tortuga55]

Don't get me wrong I would also rather that the seals are not killed but because no one wants to take the enishitive to make shure it does not happen again to other spicies or the seals ie. eating less fish, reduce pollution, cleaning streams where fish spawn, banning fish farms which spread diseases to wild fish fry, then we have to deal with the situation in other means which saddly harms the seals. So untill people all over the world smarten up situations like the ones with the seals will only increase in occurance. People are gready, and untill we stop putting our wants first thousands of animals will die, and eventually entire species. Our mas-consumption results in casses like the seals. Everyone contributes to the problem, right now as you sit by your computer you are contributing to the problem. That computer one day will end up across the world in a dump in Asia, there the led in the moniter will leak into the water and end up all over the world and it will kill the fish the seals eat, therefor making the preditor prey relationship off balance. And because people will never give up fish the seals will die. That is only one of millions of examples of how everyone is responsible for the seals fate. So when you bash Canada you are bashing them for dealing with a problem you helped cause. I get mad at all the coments pointed at Canada when everyone is to blame. Look in the mirror before you point the finger and think about everytime you drove your car, did not recycle a plastic bottle, or taken the ferry or other type of boat. All these things slowly person by person doom the seal, and like wise all animals and creatures on the earth. Think about the fish that did not die, and the animals and fish that eat them. Think about the baluga's in the St.Lawrence who eat fish like the seal. When balugas die they are clasified as toxic waste from all the pollution we dump into their enviroment, which they ingest when they eat fish. The whales are so bad of because the fish are poluted one time, the seal eats the fish and ads to the amount of pollution in its system its now two times polluted, the whales (killer whales in particullar) eat the seals and the fish which are polluted therefor the pollution acumilates inside them. Pollution from Asia, Europe, Canada, The United Sates, all over the world, needs to be controlled before situations like the seals can be stoped. Dont dis the solution to the problem dis the cause....People.

[carole]

I think one needs to get over the idea this thread is canadian bashing, if I saw a thread titled shame on NZ, I would be in there seeing what it is all about, and I can say this in all honesty, if it was something that concerned animal welfare of any kind, I would be the one doing the posting with exactly that title.

This thread IMO is merely pointing out the obvious, that the canadian government is ok with clubbing baby seals to death, IMO that is cruel, and whether I was canadian or not I would be opposing it period.

From what I have seen and heard about Canada it is indeed a beautiful country blessed with less crime than most big countries, still does not mean it does not have its dark side, lets face it all countries have skeletons hidden in the closet so to speak.(including my own, that I am NOT proud of), there are things my government will do that will make me less proud to say I am a New Zealander,fact of life, but I would be the first to stand up and say so.

The previous poster does point out some very interesting and genuine facts, we do all contribute to the downfall of our world in some way or another , be it small or large.

[tortuga55]

I have seen the posts an neglected animals left to starve to death, peolpe hate it. Are we suppost to let them run wild till they starve? That would be even crueler. If you are ok with Canada hiding the worlds problems in its "closet" fine, but just to let you know it is/will only get worse. I have realized that people never see the whole picture they just see one square inch of the picture. People focuse on the irelivent details. The point is that everyone all over the world is killing the seals with there day to day habits. And you are all so mad with the physical killing of one animal you can not see the mase killing of all the worlds species. With the world will live forever attitude we might as well kill all the seals now because reality check it will not live forever and the human race is slowly poisining this world with its selfish actions. I only want you all to look at the bigger picture, not the death of a seal but the death of all species, and inevitably this world. Untill all governments change this world will slowly erode around us. Don't fixate on the battle of one, but the war of all.

[tortuga55]

I would love to start a movement to change the worlds bad habits. I would have to start with Canada and The United States because the fact is all other countrys look up to at least one of them. The problem is that peolpe do not like to give up the comforts they have grown accustomed to. Even if these comforts risk everything on this earth. And that is humanitys downfall we lack the drive to change for the better. Shure if the way is easy we will change. But everything that is worth while is hard, that is just the way it is. So because the way is difficult we will never change. As for me I will change, and I will wait for my chance and if its gods will I will make my country change and hope others follow. They will hate me during the process but like I said all things hard are usually the most worth while. (also said in Chasing Librity) I will never give up on humanity even though at times it would be easyer. And to all of you out there who litter and don't recycle everything that can be recycled. Shame on YOU.

[bluekat]

tortuga: I agree with everything you said.. :)

[tortuga55]

Thanks I usually feel like I am alone in my ideas. The idea that at lest one person agrees with my ideas is comforting.

[king2005]

I do my best to recycle. all recycling house waste is recycled as much as this area can do.

At work I set up my own program to reuse boxes & carboard envelopes. All used paper it reused. its cut into 4 & used for notes.

For damaged products I cannot return I find a way to use it so its not tossed out.

I do not eat much fish. I only eat canned tuna & thats maybe 1 can every 3 months. I refuse to eat anyother kind of fish.

This eater I bought things I can resuse. Basket, filler straw stuff, & plastic eggs. I have them sotred away until next year. I know alot of people who keep buying new stuff every year. I don't understand why.

For xmas, I have a fake tree , so I can use it from year to year to year, without killing a real one.

For halloween, I make most of my stuff from stuff I kept (boxes, toilet paper rolls, etc.)

All my computer parts r hand me downs, from hand me downs & will be handed down to some else when I get newer hand me downs.

Most of my clothing is over 13 years old. Its still in good shape so I don't see the neat to toss it in the trash or buy "new" stuff just because I can & because its "new".

This summer were doing pest control at a friends grandmother's farm. It needs to be done, her horses & cattle are getting hurt from the holes.

We plan to collest as mush meat off the animals as we can. We have pets that can eat the meat & Organs. The left over bodies will be moved to where the wild animals can safely eat them. The farm is in the middle of nowhere, ther ralot of scavengers there, so we don't need to worry about wasting anyting or leting the left over rott (we call this a waste of a kill, if u cannot find a use for it, don't kill it).

I do my best here. I always try to think of what my actions r resulting, & plan for the best.

[king2005]

tortuga55, I have agreed with alot of stuff u have said. I do have some different points of views on some things, but for the most part we see some what eye to eye.

Humans have done wrong to the planet & saddly we need to fix it.

Humans r just lucky that we can try to fix our problems.


Oh & if anyont thinks that shooting an animal will cause less pain, is wrong.

If u have shot or seen animals being shot, u will know that most, will start bouncing about. Remember with a gun, ur further away & once its bouncing around u usually cannot get another shot in.

So if clubbing is a faster death then most guns, how is it cruel again?

With a club ur able to make sure its dead right away. with a gun, u have no idea, just because its down, doesn't mean its dead.

Remember that u cannot use too large of a cal. of gun on a seal or it'll make the kill a complete waste. the skin, meat, everything will be useless.

[tortuga55]

I am glad you recycle everyone should. Every product should be made recyclable, and food should be composted. The composting I must admit I need to work on.
I dont like guns they are loud and like you said you are to far away to kill instantly, the seal would just swim away. Also gun powder is probly not good for scavangers to eat, and the bulet hole makes the pelt in some cases worthless. I know some people who own a farm and a possum got into their grain and ate a lot of it. They tipped over the barrel it was in and tried to shoot it. Even at close range it took over 10 shots to the head to kill it. Possums always are in pairs so they went after the other one but instead of shooting it they hit it once with a club and it died instantly. Its sad that they had to die but they kill their chickens and eat their grain, they have also attacked them and their dogs (german shepard mix its huge like a pony). I have used a gun before (wooden targets only) and they are hard to hit percisly in the right spot especially black powder rifles (they smell nice/odd and are fun very Jack Sparrow). In order to kill instintly you would have to hit the brain stem, that would be insainly hard to do on every seal. I saw a deer once that a guy my aunt knows killed the guy hit it in the leg, he could not use the entire leg because it brused so badly. Cross bow could be used at close range except it might fly back at you. Although I can make a bullseye I sometimes horibly miss and it bounces off stuff and lands in the ceilling. That usually sends a few bullet cases showering down on us, we are not the only one who hits the ceilling I guess.

[lizbud]

World pollution is a real problem and worthy of discussion
but it is not the subject of this thread. The cruel slaughter of
seals is the subject.

Anyone who can view the barbaric slaughter of mother & baby
seals and say this is humane in any way has government
blinders on.

http://www.hsus.org/video_clips/page.jsp?itemID=27260759



Get the facts on this cruel practice sponsered by the Canadian
government.

http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/facts_about_the_canadian_seal_hunt.html

[Cataholic]

I just recieved another email from the US Humane Society. I don't give a flip if this was my own country doing this...it is WRONG.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. If this somehow means I am 'bashing' Canada, so be it.

Beats the HELL out of beating the pups. :(

[carole]

Here Here Johanna I could not have said it better, I am behind you 100 per cent, I also received that same email, for those who do not know some of these babies are skinned alive and while still conscious, they are only 12 days old,so that is humane is it? I THINK NOT, and it is time people got together and did something to stop these barbaric killings.

Whether you look at the overall picture or not, regardless these babies are being killed inhumanely, and we have to stand up and stop it.,end of story.

[tortuga55]

In my opinion you are attacking the wrong people we all know the governmet can not change people, just look at all the murderers and sex offenders, the government has set up laws controlling the seal hunt. It is not the governments fault people are evil and dont care. You should try and change the hunters opinions of killing seals, not bother the government with issues they have appropreatly dealt with. If the government sent out police to enforce the seal hunt then there would be a shortage everywere else. Crime on land would increase and instead of dealing with murders they would be dealing with people who missed when they shot at a seal. One thing I would sugest to change if you are insistant on bothering the government it would be the 2 dollar deduction for every bullet hole. Other than that bug the hunters they are the ones not following the law. The law says we shall not kill another person, people kill, the law outines how seals are to be killed, people dont listen. Whos fault is that. The government can not make our choices for us, peolpe chose to obey the law or not.

I guess you all are vegitarians, eh?

[lizbud]

The latest journal entry was dated March 26, 2005. The
slaughter has started in the seal nursery evidently.:( This
entry shows no gruesome images, but just relays thoughts
and feelings of the author on the closing in of the ships.


http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/rebecca_aldworths_journal/march_26.html

[bluekat]

Its not really Canada's fault. All countries have animal cruelty like this, its not something we can really fix entirely.


I just recieved another email from the US Humane Society. I don't give a flip if this was my own country doing this...it is WRONG.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. If this somehow means I am 'bashing' Canada, so be it.

Well, I guess it just depends on who you are. I know a few Americans who are very patriotic, and once you say something to offend their country they'd start flipping over it. Even if its just one little thing.

All I'm saying is that some people can bash Canada but if we do the same to them then they start flipping out. There's been threads like this, but I doubt any of you would title it "Shame on America" or something. I know if this was, then some of you would probably get mad too. And I'm just using the US as an example.

Ok sorry if I'm not really making much sense..its hard to write what I really think while trying not to really offend anyone :o

[king2005]

Originally posted by tortuga55
In my opinion you are attacking the wrong people we all know the governmet can not change people, just look at all the murderers and sex offenders, the government has set up laws controlling the seal hunt. It is not the governments fault people are evil and dont care. You should try and change the hunters opinions of killing seals, not bother the government with issues they have appropreatly dealt with. If the government sent out police to enforce the seal hunt then there would be a shortage everywere else. Crime on land would increase and instead of dealing with murders they would be dealing with people who missed when they shot at a seal.

+1 :D

& what Blue said

[kt_luvs_kitties]

I think the killing of any animal is wrong. period. BUT that is just my opinion. Seal hunting is mean, and if the government KNOWS that the hunters are skinning these babies (or any other animals) alive, well then, YES I do think that the government is at fault. To stand by and let it happen, is ridiculous and outrageous. Regardless of which country is doing it. That has NO relevancy to the hunt, whatsoever.

And to answer your question about vegetarians, YES I am proudly a vegetarian and will remain that way forever. I am not ashamed or embarrassed about it. I like doing it, and I know my reasons for it. Just my opinion... Katie

[king2005]

The Government also knows that their are baby killers out there too. Honestly, how is everyone in a contry supose to be monitored?

it really cannot happen.

[tortuga55]

They cant moniter everyone, thats one of my points. As for vegitarianism I am not bashing it, not that you said I was. It would just bug me if you were not a vegitarian and complained about the seals but turned a blind eye on things that directly effect you ie. meat you eat. Off topic but meat flavored tofu? Wont eat meat but wants food that tasts like it??? Sorry drifting of topic. When a person is murdered do the parents, wife/husband, blame the government? no. The hunters are breaking the law, and the law is right and clearly outlines what should go on during the seal hunt and what should not. Its not the govs fault people dont respect animals or the law. Maybe we should blame video games.

[carole]

IMO you are missing the point, being so defensive about the title of this thread, and about your country, I will say it again I am proud to be a New Zealander, it does not mean I will stand behind my country if my government is doing something that IMO is atrocious.

Just simply saying all countries have their cruelty's is like burying one's head in the sand,even if it is true, it is up to us to see that these practices and all cruel one's are stopped.

IMO it is the government that is behind it all, you have to continue to petition to stop these barbaric un-necessary actions.

[tortuga55]

Originally posted by carole

IMO it is the government that is behind it all, you have to continue to petition to stop these barbaric un-necessary actions.

Does the government go out and shoot seals, no. Does the government go out and tell hunters to break the law, no. Then how is the government responsible? I will defend my country as much as I want, thank you very much. When you attack the government of a country you attack the everyone inside that country. Example when one country makes war on another country they are not just waring with the people in office they are waring with every single person who belongs to that country. I do not have to and never will petition the government on the seal hunt, the laws are fair. Why do you think seals are above other animals? Deer, bear, elk, moose, beaver, muskrat, weasle, turkey, extera, exetera are all hunted and no one complains. But the seciond seals are hunted people call it cruel. That is animal racism. As for burying my head in the sand I have known about and watched documentaries on the seal hunt for years. When I was 5 I used to watch brain sergery (my parents thought i was weird) on the Discovery Chanell. All I ever watched was animal shows, along with some medical stuff. When I see the videos of the seal hunt I see an animal being killed yes, but how is it different than a lion, cheetah, leopard, tiger, hyena, ext, killing its prey. Most preditors attack there prey cutting them open many times before they finally lach onto the neck and slowly sufocate there prey to death. If the preditor lives in a group or with babies the animal is eaten alive, while the mother/preditor sufocates it. In wild sercomstances seals are tossed around by killer whales till they die and bit once by sharks and then left to bleed to death, often with huge chunks riped out, some of these seals even make it to land and slowly die there. You are mad at the seals being killed because it is humans who are killing them. You might think humans are different than animals (I agree, but it dont help my point), but many people believe in evolution (not me) and think people come from animals specifically apes. Apes attack and eat small monkeys and birds. So if we evolved from them why is it so wrong to, in ways, act like them? If you still think I am wrong don't just state an opinion, back it up, prove to me your right.

[carole]

You do not need to be so defensive, I was not the one who started the thread and like you I am entitled to my opinion.,this is not a personal attack on you or Canada as such, but on all animal cruelty, if you can live with the fact that baby seals aged 12 days are often skinned alive and while conscious, then so be it, I am against all hunting, even the duck shoots we have here in my country, I really understand if a culling is necessary, but it is the way in which it is carried out that I have a big problem with, is it humane to skin an animal alive? disgusting, and there is no need for it.. you can see other's also share my point of view, after all this is an animal loving forum, not a canadian hating one.

You just cannot seem to understand I have nothing personal against Canada, I have stated time and time again, if it were something I was opposed to I would stand against it , whether it be my country or not, if you wish to support your government no matter what, then that is your right.

Please do not turn this thread into a personal issue, I have no animosity towards you or canada especially, I am against ALL cruelty to animals period.

I will not apologise for my feelings on this subject, that is how I feel.

What happens in the wild, is nature, and it is humans who have interfered with nature for sure, and yes what happens is cruel I agree.,but it is the call of the wild.

I have no intention of getting into an argument with you, it is not in my nature to do so, I am a peaceful person, who has strong views on certain subjects, but I can agree to disagree with you on this subject politely,I stand by what I say and feel as you do.

[lizbud]

:( :( :(


http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/rebecca_aldworths_journal/march_29.html

[carole]

Thank you Lizbud for posting that article, I have to say I feel sick after reading it, physically ill, I cannot believe anyone can support such a horrific culling, it is beyond belief to me, absolutely disgusting.:( :mad:

[tikeyas_mom]

there are many groups against inhumain animal slaughters... i have personally never herd of this "hunt" till now..
It isnt "CANADA" it is our lame ass government....

[king2005]

And that is why I find myself writing mostly about one baby seal. One who endured unimaginable suffering so her skin could be turned into a fur coat. One who wanted to live so badly that she fought for more than an hour as blood oozed from her mouth and nose. One who desperately needed help that we had no way of providing.
----------

The hunter who left that seal to die on its own broke the law!!

The hunter MUST kill the seal right away. The hunter is not to leave the seal until he has killed it on the spot. There r ways of cheacking & its obviouse that this hunter negelected to follow the laws.

Its the same as the Pitt Bulls. One Pitt Atack doesn't mean the whole breed is bad. One bad Hunter doesn't mean the whole hunt is bad.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom

It isnt "CANADA" it is our lame ass government....
I was just about to say that. I did feel a little bit hurt by the title of the thread, myself. By saying "Shame on Canada" really what is being said is shame on me, because I am part of Canada, and so that does hurt my feelings. It's not Canada, it's the Canadian government.

I just wish there was a way to control the population by other means, like relocating the seals. Unfortunatly that is probably much too expensive.

tortuga55, off-topic, but where abouts are you? I'm in Kelowna. :)

[carole]

I am quite certain the person who started the thread had no intention of hurting or insulting anyone from Canada, perhaps it should have read 'SHAME ON THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT', but I am sure if you asked her that is what the thread starter probably meant, this is not a personal issue from what I can see, it is merely about terrible cruelty to an animal, this is an animal loving forum after all,it is only befitting IMO that an animal lover would be apalled by this cruelty and would want to discuss it here on our forum, that is what it is all about., it is neither here or there which country is carrying out these atrocious cullings, it is a fact and it is happening,that is what has been brought to people's attention here, infact one canadian PT'er had never heard of it before, I think it was Tikeya's mom, so if anything it is always a good thing to inform people , IMO.

I can understand people feeling upset all the same,Canadian's are from my experience wonderful people with the cutest accent,no-one needs to feel bad that anyone is against Canada or you because you are canadian, what your goverment does has no reflection on you as a person, you cannot control what your government does, only by changing your vote next time maybe, but other than that, what can you do , that will really make a difference,if you feel strongly as I do and other's here then lobbying against the cruelty is your only chance at a slight hope that it will be stopped or at least carried out more humanely in the future.

Just for the record I LOVE CANADIAN people especially all the ones here on PT.:)

I just think about the terrible suffering these baby seals are put through, whether it be one bad hunter or not, and that helps put it into perspective a little for me anyway.

[lizbud]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/fun/mutts.asp?date=20050330

[todd]

it is insulting to me



Originally posted by carole
I am quite certain the person who started the thread had no intention of hurting or insulting anyone from Canada, perhaps it should have read 'SHAME ON THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT', but I am sure if you asked her that is what the thread starter probably meant, this is not a personal issue from what I can see, it is merely about terrible cruelty to an animal, this is an animal loving forum after all,it is only befitting IMO that an animal lover would be apalled by this cruelty and would want to discuss it here on our forum, that is what it is all about., it is neither here or there which country is carrying out these atrocious cullings, it is a fact and it is happening,that is what has been brought to people's attention here, infact one canadian PT'er had never heard of it before, I think it was Tikeya's mom, so if anything it is always a good thing to inform people , IMO.

I can understand people feeling upset all the same,Canadian's are from my experience wonderful people with the cutest accent,no-one needs to feel bad that anyone is against Canada or you because you are canadian, what your goverment does has no reflection on you as a person, you cannot control what your government does, only by changing your vote next time maybe, but other than that, what can you do , that will really make a difference,if you feel strongly as I do and other's here then lobbying against the cruelty is your only chance at a slight hope that it will be stopped or at least carried out more humanely in the future.

Just for the record I LOVE CANADIAN people especially all the ones here on PT.:)

I just think about the terrible suffering these baby seals are put through, whether it be one bad hunter or not, and that helps put it into perspective a little for me anyway.

[jennifert9]

OK this is insane...Cruelty to animals is wrong right? OK we all agree on that.
Skinning an animal alive is cruel, right? OK, great we all agree on that one too.
If your government does something that you don't agree with, you vote that person or people out of office right? Or you lobby against it or you do everything in your power to stop it right? The government is not YOU and YOU are not the government. (Well, technically you are but...you know what I mean! :) This is the same story as in America...it's a democratic society, the people rule. While I understand that may not be the case in reality, it's the idea behind it and with perseverance, it works!
The issue here is the seal killing, not Canada! My father is Canadian, from Montreal and many of his family members still live there. There are loads of Pet Talkers from Canada, many whom I call friends! Others I don't know so well but have great respect for and find fascinating.
This thread was not started to bash Canada. Americans are not in the business of bashing Canada, they're really not. This is about the animal, not the country. If America was/is doing something of this nature, I would surely expect someone, from ANY country to call attention to it. And being extremely patriotic, I would do what is within my rights, and that is, lobby to stop it, get the word out to others, VOTE! And still love my country.
Please, this is not personal, it's about the animals, not you.:(

[carole]

Here Here, I agree with what you have said 100 per cent, it is about the seals and animal cruelty,not any one particular person, it is a shame when threads take a turn like this because the real issue in hand gets left behind and forgotton.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their feelings granted, but really this thread is about so much more than just that.

It is sad some have chosen to take it personally, because Lizbud never intended that.

[lizbud]

Canadians are speaking up about the seal slaughter.


http://www.protectseals.org/

[lizbud]

Canadians Give a Thumbs Up to the Protect Seals Campaign




Since The HSUS began a campaign to ban the Canadian seal hunt, there has been a chorus of approval from citizens of Canada. Here's a sampling of e-mails from Canadians to The HSUS.



I want to thank you for the tremendous advocacy work you have done to protest the Canadian seal hunt. Your organization is involved in a courageous and just undertaking by coming to Canada to expose this brutal and evil crime for the world. As emotionally and psychically painful this trip will be, it is only this first-hand evidence which will harden decent people everywhere against this atrocity. I hope that HSUS-inspired boycotts on Canadian seafood and a resolution from the U.S. Senate urging the hunt's end will convince this government to shut down the seal hunt.

—J. M. Berkeley, Windsor, Ontario, March 28, 2005

You will find this hard to believe, but I, and everyone I asked, did not know the seal hunt was still happening here. The media is virtually silent. Put full page ads in the Toronto newspapers and just see what happens. Tell the general public and they will respond. I have individually e-mailed all 307 members of Parliament, something that took me over 8 hours.

—L. Bayly, Toronto, Ontario, March 25, 2005

I have just recently read a few articles regarding killing seals. I am totally against this. I am totally against the killing of any wildlife or mammal. I think it is absolutely horrible and brings tears to my eyes when I hear or see anything to do with this. This must be stopped.

—L. Roy, Lethbridge, Alberta, March 23, 2005

I was born and raised in Canada many years ago. I can't believe that Canada still continues to slaughter baby seals. SHAME ON CANADA. This is something that has to stop. It also makes Canada look bad to other countries that are against this. I was proud to be Canadian at one time, but when you have something like this going on I have to say that I am starting to be embarrassed to say that I am Canadian. I support you people in your efforts to stop this. I have written letters to every person you have mentioned. I also want to thank you for what you are doing.

—L. Fair, Surrey, British Columbia, March 21, 2005

As a Canadian and animal lover, I am appalled that this practice has resurfaced in our country. I have been under the impression that this brutality to the beautiful seals had been stopped many years ago and am terribly disappointed in our government for allowing it to resume. As well as sending my prayers to those of you on the 'front' lines, trying to protect as many as you can, I will be contacting my Member of Parliament to voice my opinion. Thank you for alerting me that this is going on.

—K. Kropinske, Edmonton, Alberta, March 16, 2005

I live in Timmins, Ontario and I just want to applaud you for fighting against this seal hunt. I've already sent a letter to Mr. Williams, premier of Newfoundland. I find this hunt extremely cruel, ignorant and unnecessary. As I'm writing this e-mail, I know that seals are being killed and I just hate it. Thanks again.

—J. Lefebvre, Timmins, Ontario, April 12, 2004

I am aware that fishers are having problems making a living. We humans have over-fished our waters. But people are quite capable of finding incomes without reducing themselves to becoming killers of baby seals.

—D. C. Nicholson, Armstrong, BC

The fact that the government encourages the hunt is more sickening than anything. I encourage the U.S. in their attempts to prevent travel to Canada—maybe then our government will get the message that this behaviour cannot be tolerated.

—L. Mathews, Prince George, B.C.

As a Canadian and animal lover, I am ashamed of the absolute cruel and unusual form of killing the seals off Newfoundland. It really bothers me the way in which these lovable animals are killed, and in many cases are skinned while still alive.

—D. Oliver, Thunder Bay, Ontario

I want to applaud you for fighting against this horrible seal hunt that is taking place currently. I've already written to the premier of the Newfoundland government.

—J. Lefebvre Timmins, Ontario

I am from Ontario, Canada, which is some distance from the hunt, but was sickened knowing what is going on. As a Canadian, I will be honest and tell you that if it hadn't been for the ad in the New York Times, I would never have known about this.

—R.H., Ontario

As a Canadian, I am outraged that our government is sanctioning the annual seal hunt. Be assured that there are many Canadians who do not agree with the seal hunt and are mobilizing against it. Clubbing a seal for any reason is both cruel and barbaric.

—K. Erickson, Calgary, Alberta

I would just like to inform you of how appreciative our family and community are for your stance on the hideous seal hunt. I don't know what is wrong with the government on this issue. They are subsidizing these fishermen most of the year anyway.

— K. Lomack, London Ontario

I cannot believe that the Canadian government deems this as being humane and necessary. We are a civilized society, so I thought, not a barbaric society. You have my utmost support in whatever has to be done to stop the slaughter of seals. I do not believe that the seals are the cause of the depletion of cod.

—C. Clark, Prince George, British Columbia

Many of us in Canada have fought for many painful years to try to stop the hunt. Our government counters with lies and support for a hunt that so many Canadians oppose.

—J. Wood, Scarborough, Ontario

Unlike the United States and the United Kingdom, we still have centuries-old anti-cruelty laws that are very rarely adhered to, and our senate is holding up changing these laws because they are protecting the seal hunters. Thank you for making this an international issue.

—R. Ungaro, Priceville, Ontario

I have fought in my own small way against the seal hunt for 25 years and have never been so discouraged as I have been this last year. Thank you for your support and for giving me hope again.

—D. Potter, St-Laurent, Quebec

Our government doesn't listen to the majority of its citizens on this issue so hopefully it will sit up and take note of your tourism boycott. I will send a donation.

—A. Streeter, Montreal, Quebec

Canadian environmentalists appreciate your efforts to put our government to shame. There will be many defensive responses regarding the economics and welfare of communities that depend on seal pelts, but they'll be from Newfoundlanders, who have overharvested cod and are now looking for another source of income. They have to find one that doesn't exterminate wildlife.

—L. Gary, Toronto, Ontario

At one time, seal hunting might have been a necessity. In 2003, it isn't. Seal skins seem to end up in grungy little souvenir stores as coin purses and trim for combs and wallets. Some companies, I have read, tried to push seal meat in supermarkets. I am dancing on the ceiling to see that someone with clout is doing something about this.

—S. Stone, Toronto, Ontario

As a member of several animal protection organizations, I have written letters to the prime minister and the head of the Department of Fisheries, begging them to stop this outrageous massacre. They make me ashamed to be a Canadian. You, on the other hand, have enraged them by advising tourists to stay away from Canada. My hat's off to you.

—P. Hause, Toronto, Ontario

I am so glad to read the Humane Society of the United States has the guts to encourage others to stick it to Canada where it hurts—in the pocketbook. Keep up the good work.

—K. Woodall, Ottawa, Ontario

Ours is a most unresponsive regime when it comes to the feelings of its own citizens, but I'm hoping that an international campaign might shame them into doing the right thing where the seal hunt is concerned.

—C. Klassen, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan

Once Canadians feel they are seen as cruel and barbaric, they may exert the necessary pressure to stop this madness. You should note that it is mainly the people of Newfoundland who promote the slaughter. Once they decimated their fish stocks, they started looking for other things to profit from. And the seals were perfect because they could be painted as scapegoats for their overfishing.

—P. Logan, Ottawa, Ontario

The problem, as I see it, is that now that the cod fish is almost extinct, the government wishes to give employment to coastal communities with increased seal hunting—a completely crude and unimaginative solution to the problem of unemployment. The question to be asked is what happens when the seal population decreases again?

—N. Brady, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan

You have my utmost support in whatever has to be done to stop the slaughter of seals. I do not believe that the seals are the cause of the depletion of cod. I have told as many people as possible about the seal hunt and have asked them to send their letters of support.

—C. Clark, Prince George, British Columbia

I have never been so disgusted and embarrassed by my country.... The fact that the government encourages the hunt is more sickening than anything.... I encourage the U.S. in their attempts to prevent travel to Canada—maybe then our government will get the message.... I give the United States full support in their efforts to stand up for these helpless mammals. Please do whatever you can to save them.

—L. Mathews, Prince George, British Columbia

[lizbud]

April , 2005 Paradise Lost


http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/rebecca_aldworths_journal/april_4.html

and why they die http://www.harpseals.org/hunt/pelts.html

Shame on greedy,insenstive, soulless people. :(

[tortuga55]

Originally posted by jennifert9
[B]OK this is insane...Cruelty to animals is wrong right? OK we all agree on that.
Skinning an animal alive is cruel, right? OK, great we all agree on that one too.
If your government does something that you don't agree with, you vote that person or people out of office right?

Canadian Law says you are not allowed to skin the seals live. Is it their fault if people do not listen. Is it the governments fault everytime someone murders another because they did not listened to the law. I think not, Canada is not a dictatorship thingy, the governmet does not force us to do right, they just punish people who can be proven that they did wrong. Everyone is just mad because it is a seal. No one is mad when their supper is on the table in front of them.

[carole]

To be honest I am tired of hearing these excuses, if you think it is ok to skin them alive, well you are in the wrong forum IMO,this is after all an animal loving site.

You are entitled to your opinion, but so are we., it is NOT just about the seals, this is just the topic of this particular thread, it is concern for animal cruelty, in general.

I think I have said this until I am blue in the face, it is more about how the seals are killed inhumanely than the fact they are culled each year, if there is a genuine need for the population to be reduced every year, then I can understand that (but somehow I doubt it is necessary from what people here are saying)all I ask is that is done in a manner that is not cruel and those who offend be punished accordingly.

For me personally I find it rather irritating that you keep coming back here and defending this appalling cruelty,(but then that is your democratic right) however no government of mine would continue to have my vote if they cannot abolish such practices.,when you become of voting age, I guess you will be fine with voting in a government that continues the seal hunt?

It is up to your government to ensure that people who do these barbaric procedures are punished, so that it no longer continues, of course the government has a responsibility here, just as it has where any crime is committed..

[dukedogsmom]

Carole, some people just love to cause conflict and feed on it. I think that's what's happening here.

[LKPike]

it was said, "Shame on Canada" not "shame on canadians". get it right, angry people.

[carole]

Absolutely, it is always a shame when a thread turns this way, because it really takes away from the original discussion, and that gets left behind and forgotten, this is supposed to be about the inhumane culling of seals occuring in Canada, nothing more , nothing less.

People have the choice and personal freedom to feel offended if they wish, after all this is a democratic society we live in, and their opinions do count, however it is detracting from purpose of this thread, and I see it pointless to continue beating one's head against a brick wall, for those who see the culling as acceptable, that is your choice, so be it, but hopefully we can move on and discuss the topic of the thread instead.

If signing a petition saves one baby seal's life, then I am all for it, we can all turn a blind eye to the cruelty that is happening right in our backyard if we so wish, but for me, I am prepared to stick my neck out, leave my comfort zone,speak up and do anything, no matter how little to STOP ALL CRUELTY to animals and mankind.,any step in the right direction is one worth making, sometimes sacrifices have to be made, but in the long run it is worth it.

A small an insignificant example, is when the new sub-division was being built opposite my home, they were prepared to cut down 100 year old redwoods,I joined my neighbours and many others in a protest, guess what, only the dangerous ones were cut down, and we still have beautiful Redwoods on the entrance to the new housing lot, and it looks good too, something small, but we did make a difference here.

I can be as opinionated as the next person, and when I believe strongly in something, it will take a lot to change my mind, but I am open to listening, however I have seen nothing here that convinces me in any way that culling the seals in this manner is acceptable.

I am more than happy to get into a healthy debate with anyone regarding this thread, but I will not be drawn into any slinging matches to make my point,I have been prominent in this thread because I feel so strongly about it,, my opinions differ from a few here, well that is ok,but I really hope we can concentrate on the topic in hand,because for me that is really what concerns me here..

:):)

[wolfsoul]

I keep seeing alot of people focusing on seals being skinned alive. :confused: The seals are not skinned alive. Just like chickens run around for up to a few minutes after their head has been chopped off, seals have a "swimming reflex" after they die. It gives people the impression that they are still alive, but really they are dead.

[lizbud]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
I keep seeing alot of people focusing on seals being skinned alive. :confused: The seals are not skinned alive. Just like chickens run around for up to a few minutes after their head has been chopped off, seals have a "swimming reflex" after they die. It gives people the impression that they are still alive, but really they are dead.

There are links available that prove you wrong, but I will not
post them here. It is not necessary to do that. They are available
and documented by HSUS & other news groups at the scene.

[wolfsoul]

I would like to see a link that says otherwise -- I already read in the first article you posted that some people witnessed 42 seals that were "probably" skinned alive.

For one, I just don't see why someone would bother. Killing something and then skinning it is alot easier. Seals, even young ones, are quite dangerous and can put up one heck of a fight. I went to a Victoria harbour when I was young, and I remember people freaking out because one of the young seals there had bit off someone's fingers.

[wolfsoul]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4608053/

Here is a link that explains the swimming reflex. It also tells about a video of someone skinning a seals that may have be alive as they appeared to reach for the knife and look up, and it explained how killing a seal like that is illegal, and this year there is a mandatory test to make sure that each seal is dead before skinning.

[carole]

Wolfsoul I really hope what you say is true,I don't doubt you , but I do have serious doubts that it is all being carried out humanely.

[tortuga55]

Who said the seals were not dead? Did they check vitals? They could be moving after they are dead. You know like a limb does even after it is detatched from the body. The government should not have to watch every single kill to make sure its done right. They don't have to watch every deer killed. If there is any error in the seal hunt its the hunters fault not the government. I think people are getting so upset because its a seal and not another type of animal.

I found the "some people like to cause conflict, they feed on it" comment hurtful and unapropreat. I know you were talking about me. I don't need more people PMing me with harsh comments and threats. But I will not back away from my point of view. I thought the point of a public board was to share different points of view. I love hearing others point of views, it makes me think more about my opinion. But it seams no one else is reseptive to my opinion. Instead they suggest I am cruel, have no heart, or that I like to cause conficts. The cruel comments sting but they dont phase me I know I am not. I would take a bullet to the chest to protect my pets, or an endangered species. I know you wonder why I dont protect seals or other game, it is because I accept that humans are hunters we kill our food, and as long as we attempt to kill it as quickly as possible I am ok with it. Not all kills are going to be quick, people make mistakes and I accept that to. Even when we use drugs to kill animals quickly it sometimes does not work, my own dog needed 3 shots of euthanasia before she passed. It was her heart the failed her, not her spirit. I have almost had enough with this board, all I get is mean PM's and mean threads. Even when others agree with me, they are not treated as coldly. It seems almost like a private club of friends, and they don't want to make room for anyone else. It makes me seem very unwelcome if it continues I will just leave. I already belong to a board that accepts me and they are always nice, even when they don't agree with me. They don't have many people but thats ok.

[bluekat]

Originally posted by dukedogsmom
Carole, some people just love to cause conflict and feed on it. I think that's what's happening here.

That was pretty rude, and if it was directed at me I'd be upset too. Stating your opinion and having someone else disagree with you doesn't necessarily mean you love causing conflict. I'd rather have my opinion heard rather than sit back and say nothing.

[tortuga55]

Originally posted by bluekat
That was pretty rude, and if it was directed at me I'd be upset too. Stating your opinion and having someone else disagree with you doesn't necessarily mean you love causing conflict. I'd rather have my opinion heard rather than sit back and say nothing.

Thanks.

[Maya & Inka's mommy]

One word: "SICK" !!!:mad: :eek: :mad:

[LorraineO]

As a Canadian,, I am offended by the use of the term **Shame on Canada**........ its more like shame on the individuals who do the clubbing,,,
Seal hunting is a necessary practice to keep the population down,,,,, but I too also object to the WAY they do it,,, Clubbing isnt the best way,,,,,, so dont say shame on Canada......

A PROUD Canadian thank you very much!


:)

[lizbud]

These people would not be allowed to crush the skulls of baby
seals if the Canadian government didn't permit it. Shame On
Canada for allowing this to go on.


About the Canadian Seal Hunt





©2005 Brian Skerry/HSUS
Seal hunters call them "beaters"—seal pups who are at least two weeks old. And once a baby seal starts to molt even a part of its white coat, the Canadian government allows hunters to beat the pups to death with a club or a large ice-pick-like hakapik. There have even been reports of sealers killing mothers who try to protect their unweaned pups.


Canadian government figures show that in 2002–2003 96.6% of the reported 286,238 seals killed between November 15 and May 15 were 12 days to 12 weeks old. Under the government's latest plan, hunters will be allowed to kill 975,000 harp seals on their home ice east of Newfoundland and Labrador during a three-year period. We don't know how many more seals were killed than were reported, but we do know that in the 2001-2002 hunt, sealers killed at least 30,000 more seals than allowed by law. And how did the Canadian government punish the sealers? By upping the quota.

The Canadian government has proven time and again that it is more interested in promoting a commercial seal hunt (a massive slaughter that is nothing like the traditional hunts of the past) than in the humane treatment of seals. When confronted with evidence from an independent, international team of veterinarians that regulations on the treatment of the seals were not being obeyed—that up to 40% of seal pups were being skinned while alive and conscious—the government refused to crack down on sealers.

Some, in fact, might say the government tacitly rewarded the sealers by subsidizing the hunt to the tune of $20 million between 1995 and 2001. And right this minute, it's promoting seal fur, meat, and oil all over the world.

One way the Canadian government justifies its support of the seal hunt is to claim that seals in the North Atlantic eat too many cod. But there's no good scientific support for this claim. In fact, two of the government's own scientists reported in 1994 that the true cause of cod depletion in the North Atlantic was over-fishing.

Ecosystems are complex—seals also eat cod predators (other fish), for example, so removing seals might even worsen the cod stock's condition. But it's more convenient for the government and fishing industry to scapegoat seals than it is for them to address the serious problem of over-fishing.

[LorraineO]

Duhhhhhhhhh,,, reread my post Lizbud.......

I can think of a few kazillion things YOU need to be ashamed of and it involves HUMAN life......

[lizbud]

Originally posted by LorraineO
Duhhhhhhhhh,,, reread my post Lizbud.......

I can think of a few kazillion things YOU need to be ashamed of and it involves HUMAN life......


Since you don't know ME from Adam, I can only guess what
the heck you're talking about. I perfer not to guess, so why not
just spit it out. Can you be more specific?

[LorraineO]

If you cant read a simple and plainly explained post,, I am not gonna do it for you.....

Dont be so vain as to assume the YOU meant you personally,, I meant you as a nation,, Nations that live in glass houses shouldnt be throwing stones.

[PJ's Mom]

Geez. :rolleyes:

[Lady's Human]

again, please take the urinating contest to PM land.

[carole]

The fact a mere few of you are determined to take this so darn personally is beyond me, it is NOT about you being Canadian, of course America, New Zealand, every country in this world has things to be ashamed of, I am NOT proud of everything my country does, and I will be the first to stand up and say so, complacency does not make the matter go away.

I Say shame on you for being so sensitive, and not really seeing the point of this whole thread, it has continued on in this negative way because people are NOT reading what it is really all about., and choosing to make it personal when it is NOT and never has been.

I say good on you Lizbud for bringing this to people's attention, the old ostrich head in the sand does not wear with me, I think there are many canadians who are just as apalled by this as most animal loving people are.

Cruelty is unacceptable, but sadly it is in every race, colour,creed, country, there are no barriers, but as decent human beings we should at least try to do everything within our power to STOP it.

[PJ's Mom]

Originally posted by carole
I say good on you Lizbud for bringing this to people's attention, the old ostrich head in the sand does not wear with me, I think there are many canadians who are just as apalled by this as most animal loving people are.

I agree. :)

[lizbud]

Originally posted by Lady's Human
again, please take the urinating contest to PM land.


It can't be a contest with only one pissed off person.;)

Carole is right, this is not a personal slam on any country, only
a cruel kill of young seals done in the most inhumane way
possible.

Anyone who cannot distinquish between a government and the
governed is bound to misunderstand I guess.

[bluekat]

Sorry, I guess I understand now what you are all trying to say...I've just had a few bad experiences before similar to something like this, when people were trying to bash Canada.

[tortuga55]

Acording to you everything is cruel, how do you walk down the street knowing you are hurting thousands of tiny creatures. Come on people are not perfect, so it takes a couple min. for the seals to die. They could be doing way worse things to the seals. Dont you think animals slowly dieing from polution and loss of habitat is worse. Sure the seal is killed but you can not say that the hunters are purposly killing the seals as slow as possible. If you are going to call seal hunting cruel then you need to attack fishing, pesticide spraying, and what about antibiotics. Antibiotics weaken the protective layer of viruses allowing them to be distroyed. Is that not cruel? Death is natural. We live in a world were it happens every day, but society has labeled death as horible and unneccesary. All things die, you cant stop it.

I think it is cruel (by all of your definitions) to put me down so often, and not listen to my opinion. You getting mad at me protecting my opinion and country is really quite ironic because you are also always defending your opinions and protecting your country. I bet if I outright said something bad about your countries you would react the exact same way I have. You are the ones with your head in the sand, I listened and thought about all of your opinions, and stated why I did not feel the same way as you. But no one has extended that same curtisy to me. Lets just say I have not had a warm welcoming to Pet Talk and will not be recomending it to anyone.

[doodlebug]

I am new to Pet Talk and have just read the entire form, do you always attack each other like you do on this thread? I mean its sad that seals have to die but why be so mean about your opinion?

[Suki Wingy]

Because most of us here on Pet Talk have VERY srtong oppinions we feel we need to get across.

[king2005]

Asif this thread is still alive.

& the bickering should only happen in the Doghouse. Thats kinda what its for.

this type of behaviur isn't permitted in the regular threads, it does happen, but not too often.

Its when u start getting NASTY PMs, is whan its getting personal & out of control.

but I think its about time, we let this thread die, cause its never gonna end.

[Suki Wingy]

Nationalism is one of the main causes of war.:( :(
Poor seals. If they did this in America I'd want to leave it even more than I do now!:( :mad:
oh, yeah, and edited to add that I think because you guys are so proud of your nation, (it's who you are) you seem to take this as a personal bashing to YOU and then you start to tell yourself that it isn't really all that bad because other nations do stuff the same and worse, when really it is ALL cruel and needs to be talked about. :( :mad:

[Suki Wingy]

*deepbreaths* Trying very hard not to loose my temper! You people are focusing on CANADA and not the topic of this thread, BABY SEALS!

[carole]

Suki Wingy I feel exactly as you do, completely exasperated by this thread and the people who keep coming back and defending it and Canada, actually I can say this honestly, I would NOT defend my country if it were doing this, or anything else, I would be the first to jump in and stand up against it.

There is nothing wrong with genuine loyalty to one's country, but when it goes beyond my beliefs, that can go out the window as far as I am concerned.

You can bash my country as much as you like, if it is condoning cruelty to animals, or doing anything that is considered abhorrent to others,I would explain why my country does this, and then tell you how I felt about it and why.

For goodness sake Lizbud change the title of this thread, then maybe it will apease those who have their nose's out of joint so much.

For those of you who are new here, Pet Talk is a wonderful place, there are controversial subjects which are discussed, and often become a debate, mostly it is done with maturity, but emotions do run high sometimes and feelings get hurt, IMO this thread has not got out of hand, for those who's opinions differ from mine, fine with me, I just have to continue with mine too, as I am concerned with the welfare of the seals, not about a few people who choose to take this so personally and change the whole thread completely. again it is not about YOU, it is about the darn SEALS.

I don't believe in sending nasty PM'S , anything I have to say , I say here. I am not ashamed of anything I have written in my posts, nor do I feel I owe anyone an apology, I am just getting oh so tired of seeing this thread become something it is NOT.

[tortuga55]

Originally posted by carole

There is nothing wrong with genuine loyalty to one's country, but when it goes beyond my beliefs, that can go out the window as far as I am concerned.



Well, I believe that animals were put on this earth to be used, enjoyed, and taken care of by people. If someone wants to make a living off seals or have a seal coat. Fine so long as the animal is not tortured or hunted to the point of extinction, and I feel that most of the seals are killed as fast as humanly posible, and those that are not killed as quickly as one would like, is sad, true, but no one is perfect. I know you all dont like hunting of any kind, but hunting is natural, I personaly dont hunt, but I have taken Archery and rifle lessions. The first time I tried archery a doe and her fawn were in the field grazing, they were so pritty, eventually they left (unharmed), it was so cool. I understand if you are a vegitarian but not everyone is and hunting is normal for them, I personally love steak and prarie deer, buffloo, and I hate forest deer and fish. I dont bash you for not eating meat dont get mad at me for eating meat and believing in hunting. I started defending my country because right from the start great emphasis was put on the fact that the seals were in Canada. You get mad at me defending my counrtry saying I am missing the point (what point is "the" point there is more than one out there, why do you usume yours is the right point!) but you are missing my point, I believe in hunting, and I accept it why do you think that I am not getting it I am, and I am ok with it. I am ok with you not having my opinion, I keep on writing because I have a problem with you thinking that I am apsolutly positivly wrong. I try to write on this board in a way that shows you why I think the way I do not in a way that atempts to dissprove you opinion. I dont like people thinking I am close minded and not looking at all the facts. I have looked at all the facts and listened and thought about your opinions and points and I stick by my opinion. Your opinions are all good but they come from (or seem to) the view point of all hunting is bad, and I dont think like that. I am not aiming to accept my opinion I am for you accepting that I have a different opinion and that I could be right. My opinions so far have been looked at as totaly wrong with no way of being true, that is wrong and close minded. Anything is possible maybe the seal hunt is cruel maybe it is not. You cant judge one as totaly wrong and the other as totaly right, because we dont know, only god knows for sure. I will put my money on that it is not cruel and you will put yours on that it is. Stop bashing me for what I think is right. Police are trained to know that by shooting a person in the head will kill them instantly, I bet a seal getting hit in the head with a club has the same effect. You can not expect every single seal to die instantly it is imposible, not even with drugs could that be possible. If the situation was different, like if the seals were tied up to die on the ice flows to starve, or if they were cut and left purposly to bleed to death then ya I would get mad too. But they are killed quickly.

[carole]

I will try to keep this short and sweet and to the point if I can, since you have directed your comments mostly to me, although I am not the only person who has had a different opinion to your's, infact my opinion is the majority here, but of course it does not make it right or you wrong, of course I respect your values and opinion, but actually I think you are the one who is being close minded here, you support your country no matter what, you are young and have a lot of growing to do yet, I think as you mature you will see things in different lights, because of your life experiences,not so black and white, there is nothing wrong about what you are saying, I have no problem with it, it is how you feel, all good and well, I just find it tiring to keep going on and on about the same point, when this thread is not about how you or I really feel about the seals, it is what is being done to them, really that is my only concern, I could not care less which country is responsible, just that hopefully it will be done humanely, we just keep going around in circles repeating ourselves, I am not going to beat my head against a brick wall, after a while it begins to hurt, I respectively agree to disagree on this topic with you, and hope that we both let the thread continue on in a manner that is not destructive and about the real topic.

I do take exception to your comments that I have been bashing you,if that is how you percieve it , then I am truely sorry about that, I am not the sort of person who goes into a thread trying to offend someone, just ask around , I have been on PT for over 2 years, and I have always tried to listen to both sides of the story.

This is not bashing IMO it is debating, which happens alot on PT ,however whether it has turned from what I consider a healthy debate to something else I am not sure, if you take it so personally that is usually what happens.

Ok enough said, if you wish to keep debating this point, I would prefer not to and just leave it as is,I have no desire to keep battling it out about whether I disagree with you, or whether the thread is canadian bashing, I am sticking to my opinion and you to yours. fine with me ok.