HELP-Dying Fish!!

[DogLover9501]

My mom is very upset right now.

We've lost 3 fish today, some that she's had for 3-5 years.

They all seem to be sick, and all seem close to dying.

This seems to have happened after we bought 6 little fish from a reptile store, who were going to be reptile food.

I know nothing about fish, so I told her I would try here.

Any advice/suggestions would be great!

Thanks

[PJ's Mom]

Robyn I'm sorry you're losing fish. They can be tough to diagnose and treat. :(

Can you tell us some of the fishies symptoms? Color, breathing, etc? What kind of fish did you buy to feed your reptiles?

There are tons of us who know about fish. We'll all try to help. :)

[carrie]

Fill buckets and bowls with water now! Let the water sit for 12 hours - should be longer but you don't have the time - are they tropical, cold water or marine? Do what needs to be done to get the water ready for the type of fish you have and seperate the new ones from the old ones and any oder fish that don't look so good from anyone else as soon as you can once the chlorine and temperature and salt have been sorted. Go buy small plastic tanks if you have to in order to do this - and think about sympathy buying...if you buy them, for whatever reason, you are increasing demand for them and so more fish end up in a tank in a store being sold as reptile food. Healthy fish that can be sold at a profit to fishkeepers will not end up in the reptile food tank. So, it follows that there is something not quite right with those fish that are being sold as reptile food - if you buy them and put them with your pet fish straight away it is VERY likely that you will have problems.
Seperate the fish as best you can, be prepared for more loses and look at this as a lesson well learned. We have all done it at some time or another and the lesson is....don't create a market for ill bred, poor quality animals by buying them. It is incredibly hard to leave them where they are when they are suffering and in danger but it simply encourages more poor, prolific breeding of genetically unsound or diseased animals and fish.

Cruel to be kind I'm afraid.

[carrie]

PJ's Mom - is that a Howard Jones lyric?
"You can dip your foot in the pool but you can't have a swim,
You're the fastest runner but you can't afford to win."

This is driving me nuts - I know the song, love it, but can't get the name of it or the chorus!!....

"You can feel the cushions but you can't have a seat."

Please, please put me out of my misery - this is going to keep me awake all night - I used to have the song on Amnesty International's Conspiracy of Hope album but I can't find it!!!!!

HELP ME, PLEASE!!!!!

[PJ's Mom]

No One is to Blame...by Howard Jones. :D

[DogLover9501]

Thanks for the help!

Right now we have 3 Kois left, 1 Gold Fish and 1 Pleco, lost another gold fish right after I posted the message, so that's 4 gone.

We have all the water out of the tank, we have the new fish seperated from the old, and are cleaning out the tank.

We are not putting the new fish back in with the old fish.

I'm hoping this will help.

[carrie]

Do not put new fish back with old fish!!

New fish are carrying something that your old fish are not immune to!

Leave new fish seperate for at least two weeks, see what happens, get a vet to take a look at them, don't even let them share water, let alone a tank or pond with your old fish. Isolation of new stock needs to be routine, no matter where you get them from.

Do not put them back together!

[carrie]

Ooops - mis read - thought you WERE putting them together....


Good luck, my thoughts are with you and your Mum.

[DogLover9501]

Thank you!

So your saying that whenever we get new fish, we need to isolate them?

I know nothing about fish ;) They've always been my mom's.

We have always put them in with the old fish, so I guess we've been pretty lucky!

So, right now they're only in pans, how long should we leave the new water in the tank before putting them back? We're scared they might jump out of the pan!

Also the big white koi is turning red/orange all over, even it's fins :confused:

[carrie]

No one is to blame!!!

Thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!

Fantastic song and Howard did the right thing concentrating on song- writing rather that singing ( although I thought his voice suited the song I would love to hear another version...just a great song!) - he is attempting a bit of a comeback as a performer. Good luck Howard.


As a song, poem or just lines from it, this has to be one of the greatest pieces of socially aware writing from the 20th C. Sadly it is as relevant 20 years on.

Thank you so much for that!

[PJ's Mom]

You should always have a quarantine tank to put your new fish in. Most people will tell you to keep them separated around 2 weeks. :) I usually find that a problem will reveal itself within a week or so.

[PJ's Mom]

Carrie, it is a great song, but I don't know if I'd want to hear another version of it. It would just be too weird. ;)

Sorry about stumping you like that. :D

[DogLover9501]

What things should we look for in new fish when they're seperated?

[carrie]

The way that things SHOULD work is that your fish store gets stock in and isolates it for two weeks. Few do. Especially with really good stock, they look healthy and attractive and will get a good price if showed off and sold quickly.
Good fish retailers know that the change of tank and water conditions will affect all fish and condition, colour and behaviour will take a dip, so they don't put new stock on display straight away. They give the fish a chance to adjust, get it's immune system up to scratch (stress on fish will knock their ability to resist parasites and disease) before putting them in the show tanks for you to buy. You then buy a fit and heathy fish but put it under yet more stress by changing the water, tank and competition (other fish in the tank/pond). Any infection, parasite or genetic weakness that is not a problem normally will come to the fore, escalate and possibly transfere to other fish.

Isolating newly bought fish gives you the advantage of assessing their overall health, any "problem" fish, such as fin biters and allows you to see rampant defects that kill the new fish without affecting your old fish.

Once the fish have gone through a week of isolation and you are confident that there are no problems then start to transfer 3 or 4 cups of water from the isolation tank to the main tank and 3 or 4 cupa of main tank water to the isolation tank three of four times a day for another week. Any signs of illness or distress should be taken seriously.

If you want to keep old stock healthy then isolation of new stock is essential, no matter what the person selling the fish to you said.
And, yes, every time.

[carrie]

Y'now, you are so right about the song. Howard really felt that song.

[PJ's Mom]

Robyn, it wouldnt hurt for you to investigate all the fish stores in your area. Look at the fish and make sure they aren't overcrowded. Make sure the store is clean and the tanks are clean and don't have a strong fishy odor. It can be a daunting task, but looking at all the fishies is fun and you can learn a lot by talking with knowlegeable fish keepers. When you find a LFS you can really trust, the isolation (quarantine) can be a little shorter. Try not to buy your fish at a place like Petco or Petsmart if you can avoid it. :)

[carrie]

soooo agree with that - go with "fish people" not pet stores.

My hubbie has moaned and groaned about driving 60 miles to just have a look at a fish, rather than go twenty minutes down the road to buy the same fish..

Internet searches for local fish enthusiasts/breeders can open up a whole new world for you!!!!

[DogLover9501]

Thanks for all this advice-it's very helpfull!!

It's been a few hours, and they are back in the tank, with clean water, and are all alive ;)

Also we gave the "trouble fish" to my cousin, since he has no other fish, so that should be fine.

[DogLover9501]

The Pleco is gone :( He was my favorite!

Also our big Koi is just about gone too.

[IRescue452]

I would not keep them in metal pans or in teflon. try a plastic container like an ice cream bucket for each fish. The metal can hurt the fish and even kill them. Are there any other symptoms besides turning colours?

[PJ's Mom]

It would help to know all of the symptoms. Unless they're babies, it takes a lot to kill a pleco.

Any white spots, color changes, floating/swimming funny, gasping, etc?

[DogLover9501]

Originally posted by PJ's Mom
Any white spots, color changes, floating/swimming funny, gasping, etc?

The kois are turning red/orange and the medium sized one looks like his head is flaking, and the big one is staying near the bottom and does seem to gasp sometimes.

The Pleco, however, didn't seem to have anything wrong with him, so I was expecting him to be ok :(

No white spots, but they do swim a bit funny, the big Koi seems like it tries to swim up but keeps sinking?

Maybe if I took pictures/video?

[My Peanuts]

You added too many new fish too fast. Fish poop gives off ammonia and it can kill the fish. Your tank has good bacteria that takes care of the ammonia, but when you add too many new fish the good bacteria can't handle all the new ammonia. I know you already took action, but 20% water changes will reduce the ammonia until the good bacteria has a chance to grow.

Also, “feeder” fish carry a lot of disease. You should quarantine the new fish for about a month. Look for ick (white spots), or anything out of the ordinary with the new fish.

Since it seems like a healthy tank went bad so fast, I'd bet it was the ammonia.

[PJ's Mom]

Good point. Robyn, how long has your tank been set up?

[DogLover9501]

Wow we've had our tank for 5-6 years, we've cleaned it out alot though, of course :p

Also, does it help if I mention that we got these new fish about 3 weeks ago, and this only happened now? I forgot that :o

[IRescue452]

Sounds like you have several problems. The big koi sounds like a bacterial infection because of colour change, the smaller one sounds like dropsy or possibly ick. Three weeks is time enough for many different diseases to build up and you got the jackpot. I always quarentine for three to four weeks before adding new fish to the pond. Here is a good website to look up symptoms and diseases, hope it helps.
http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/diseases.htm