If you rather have peace!

[Albea]

A friend sent this link: http://home.uchicago.edu/~dhpicker/petition
Is a petition for "A different way of thinking."
If you agree, please send it to your friends and families.

[Dixieland Dancer]

I am sorry but I did not sign the petition. SpencertheLion quoted this in one of his posts and it speaks volumes in my opinion.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. --Edmond Burke

My son has been deployed and while I do not want any harm to come to him, I am also very proud of him and the others who are ready to stand up to terrorism and defend democracy and freedom. :)

[Albea]

You don't have to sign the petition.
I was asked to post it and I did.
As we said many times in this board: "Thank God that we live in a country where we are all free to express our opinions."

[4 feline house]

Albea, thank you for posting this link. Maybe there can be some dialogue. While I am very proud of how our country has pulled together, and while I am old enough to vividly remember the Iran hostage crisis of 1979 and how Mr. Carter wimped out, I am concerned about this much ballyhooed idea of war. As of this time, we are not aware of any countries that have attacked us. At best, some countries may be aiding the terrorists, but last I heard there is no reason to believe any country has been involved in the planning or execution of the terrorist attack. So I don't yet understand who it is we're supposed to be going to war with. I am not aware that Congress can declare war on a person or a group of people. Therefore I remain very ambivalent.

[Eudora]

I wasn't sure whether i should sign it or not. I didn't know a war can be declared on a group of poeple? I thought it was countries or even a Civil War but not against a group like the Taleban... could you all put me straight on this?? :confused:

[Dixieland Dancer]

My opinions on the subject are also mixed. However, this much I do know I believe....

What happened in NY, DC and PA was a tragedy and I believe it was meant to be an act of War against our Country and what it stands for. The acts that were perpetrated were meant to crumble our Economy and thousands of lives were lost because of it. Consider for a moment the scope of what the terrorists could of done if all they planned out had been accomplished. We could of had numerous more lives lost. Some of them could of been the life blood of our nation. Remember we are a Republic. This means we are governed by people we elect to govern us. If the plane that crashed in PA had hit the White House or the Capitol (as is being assumed) not only would our Economy been crippled but our leadership would of been impacted also. This plan was thought out methodically by the terrorists to bring America to her knees. And by the Grace and Mercy of God it did not succeed!

Now consider that we don't do anything to stop this kind of action from happening again. We are sitting ducks waiting for the next group of terrorists who hate America and what it stands for to attack. Next time we may be hit in other areas. Consider not having oil.... no cars to drive, astronomical prices if we do, depending on other countries to keep us going!!! Nuclear disasters, Communications disasters, Economic disasters, Health related disasters, the list can go on.

So our leaders are choosing to stand and say enough is enough. We will not be sitting ducks and wait until we are hit again to see what may be done to us. This is not a conventional war as we are use to fighting. Since it was a group of people how do you stop them????? Basically our leaders are saying the only thing that can be said. If you harbor a terrorist you side with them and not with us. They choose! Afganistan has choosen not to turn over Bin Laden.

Our Country will see more blood spilled over this but in the long run we are trying to preserve our freedoms and defend our way of life. I have a personal stake in this since my son is a marine and deployed already. I don't want any harm to come to him but on the same hand, your children and their childrens future depends on how we handle this crisis now. I know I don't want my grandchildren living under constant threats of terrorists or under communistic rule. If there is a better way to handle the situation let's let our representatives in Congress know our opinions so they can discuss them.

One final thought.... consider when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. We had a defined enemy. We knew the country responsible. Many innocent lives were lost on both sides in that war but your freedom and mine were preserved! It is easier to defend your country when you know who you are defending it against. In the case of cowards who hide out waiting to perform their next act of terrorism it is not so defined. So you need to identify the countries that are willing to harbor a known terrorist. Unfortunately that is the case this time. :(

May God continue to shine His grace on us and all the other countries that stand up with us!!!!!

[Pam]

Dixieland Dancer....eloquently spoken!!!! I will keep your son in my prayers. Thank God that America has sons who are willing to go to fight to defend and preserve the things that make our country so great. My husband was in the Air Force during Viet Nam and fortunately did not ever have to leave the states. It was an anxious time for us as I know these days are for you. God bless you!

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Dixie, well said, I see no choice in what we have to do. :(

[3-greys-and-a-mutt]

Well said, DD! Throughour my entire life, I have felt anti-war, even anti-military. However, the only conflict within my rememberence has been the Persian Gulf War. I was 15 at the time, and so upset that the U.S. felt it necessary to lose our soldiers for other countries' problems. I called myself a pacifist and refused to join in on any support efforts.

Now, things are different! For the first time in my life (and since WWII!) we have been attacked on a grand scale at home! This has become something that threatens us every day in our homes, our places of business, etc.! Every day when I go to work, I have a nagging fear that I won't come home again. I DON'T LIKE FEELING THAT WAY!

For the first time in my existance, I feel that I can wholeheartedly support a war effort. These awful people are trying to topple us, and control the world in the process. They must be stopped, and I will support any effort to stop them!

[Logan]

My daughter had an interesting assignment to complete for school. She was to "write" her autobiography. Many, many hours went into preparing this presentation. Of course, she needed my help to capture the first few years of her life. I was able to show her the newspaper from the day she was born, 1/29/91. The headlines read "Operation Desert Storm", and I explained to her about what went on during that time.

For a 10 year old, she is a pretty smart cookie, if I do say so myself :rolleyes: . Anyway, as she was writing, she explained her understanding of the world status at the time she came into the world, and ended her autobiography by putting a newspaper article from Sept 11, 2001 at the end.

Our children don't understand war, I don't understand war, but I definitely think that the war on "whoever" is a necessary thing right now. In my mind, we are at "war" with whoever is responsible for the tragedy that happened right here in our country. And I guess for the first time in my 39 years, it isn't obvious who it is.

I pray that our soldiers will be safe and I thank God for them every single day.

[purrley]

This is such a dilemma - it would be nice to be able and pin point the source of evil but not the case in these circumstances - how can we single out these sources and yet how can be just sit back and do nothing. My biggest fear is bio warefare - how to we combat bugs????

[AdoreMyDogs]

Just like 3 grey's said...I also used to be very anti-war, anti-military, and I never had much patriotism (sp?) until this all happened. I am now, more then ever before, hoping we can put a stop to the terrorism before they get any more attacks on the United States by whatever means necessary. I have been living in fear every day since Sep. 11th. I have been treating every day as if it were my last, just in case we are hit with chemical or biological warfare. I am trying to talk my husband into just taking a few weeks to a month off work, renting a small RV, and driving across country and head north and then out west. That's something I have always wanted to do. I am only 26 years old and I am already thinking that there's a chance I won't be around for very much longer. I think this is very unhealthy and sad. The only way I will start to feel better about my life is if the monsters who did this are wiped out. I don't want to be afraid anymore, I want to grow old and I want to experience the magic of motherhood someday. Those monsters are taking my dreams away from me and I think, for the first time in my life, that the only way they will stop attacking the US is if they are destroyed. I am not a violent person, and I would not wish death on anyone...unless in this extreme case, where death is the only way to stop these monsters. There is no talking to them and coming up with a peaceful medium. It's do or die with those monsters. It truly is good vs. evil, as Spencer said.

I want my life back. I want my dreams back. I want to not have to worry about having my whole family and all my friends vaccinated against anthrax (sp?) and losing all of our pets, because according to my vet, pets are very suceptable to it and there are no vacs or cures. I know Graham can sence my fear and he may also be able to sence that I worry about his future as well as mine, my families, and my friends'.

So, of course I would love to come to a peaceful aggreement between the US and the terrorists and the countries who harbor them, but they would rather die then accept the US for what She is. They will not give up without a fight, so a fight is necessary at this point.

I have read several new-age emails that stated we should "bomb them with butter", meaning we should, instead of bombing them with conventional weapons, we should give them mounds of gifts, food, clothing, and build a beautiful, huge house of worship in their poorer areas. The assumption is that it would make them feel differently towards the US and they would have more respect for us and they would quit the extreme hate and the terrorism. I honestly feel that as long as there are Christians in this country the hatered will go on, regardless of what "peace offerings" we give them. I think they have proved themselves to be unforgiving and radical and unconpasionate.

I pray that somehow they are wiped out so I can get my dreams back and I can wake up feeling happy again. And as much as I would love peace, it's just too late for that. We are dealing with a force more evil then anything we have dealt with before, and they will do it again unless we get rid of them by means of war.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by AdoreMyDogs:
<STRONG>
I have read several new-age emails that stated we should "bomb them with butter", meaning we should, instead of bombing them with conventional weapons, we should give them mounds of gifts, food, clothing, and build a beautiful, huge house of worship in their poorer areas. The assumption is that it would make them feel differently towards the US and they would have more respect for us and they would quit the extreme hate and the terrorism. I honestly feel that as long as there are Christians in this country the hatered will go on, regardless of what "peace offerings" we give them. I think they have proved themselves to be unforgiving and radical and unconpasionate.

</STRONG>


What an interesting idea. I had not heard this before! I realize this is a war against our Christian foundation and the terrorists belief that Islam is the only true religion! WWJD (What Would Jesus Do) if he were here right now? Would he bomb the hell out of them or show them compassion? Maybe by showering them with gifts we could show them we serve the Lord of grace and compassion! Interesting but realistic??? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[purrley]

Not realistic - they'd just take what we gave them and a the next opportunity shove it up our @@XXX!!! :(

[jackiesdaisy1935]

It seems to me that we have been showering many of these people with gifts for many years The terrorists have infiltrated our collages, flying schools, our neighborhoods, our stock market, airports, our beings, all for the sake of destroying our people and our country. They were the people next door that we befriended in many cases. This will be a war like no other, it will take time, terrorists hide in the shadows and we must flush them out and destroy them for the sake of all humanity. They don't believe in the true Islam, which preaches peace, they want to destroy the world. We must not be afraid, we must show them that we are stronger because of their actions and that the world
will unite against them.

[4 feline house]

Jackie - you touched on a sore spot for me - in most states (most recently, in Texas, too) foreign students go to our schools at the in-state rate or less! Furthermore, all that is required for a student visa is acceptance into any post-secondary school - even flight school - and not just jet flight schools, where a person might make a living with the education, but even these little Piper prop plane schools, with which you are almost certain to do no more with your education than have an expensive hobby! So, want to come to America? Go to bartending school! And since the student visas are never followed up on, the folks who have them stay here undetected for years, or even decades, only getting caught when running afoul of the law. Which, of course, by then is sometimes too late.

I would have no beef with this if 1) "student" meant you were learning a trade that you could be reasonably assured that would earn you a living IN YOUR NATIVE COUNTRY or you were seeking a degree 2) Your native country had no such similar school and 3) when your visa expired, you were gone, period. And I would have no problem eliminating #2 if full non-resident rates were paid by the foreign student.

But, anyway, just my opinion.....

[K9karen]

It'a a shame that innocent people get injured and killed in acts of war, of course, but terrorism is a purposeful thing.
It doesn't make me feel so great either that Bin Laden (who was trained by the CIA)not only wants to kill Americans but Jews too. Now I really feel secure :(

[Golden Smiles]

Originally posted by Albea:
<STRONG>A friend sent this link: http://home.uchicago.edu/~dhpicker/petition
Is a petition for "A different way of thinking."
If you agree, please send it to your friends and families.</STRONG>

[Golden Smiles]

Well, this is my first reply, I have no idea how i copied the original and posted it again under my name!! DUH!! I'll get the hang of it!! :confused: Anyway, I am torn about how I feel about this. I would love to have peace, of course, but we have to do something or we will be every crazy terrorists punching bag forever. I don't think we have a choice at this point. God bless our men in uniform.

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Welcome Terri, we all know what you mean, it's a hard choice. Do you have any furbabies? We would love to see them, glad you joined us.
Jackie

[Eudora]

Uhm... I am still confused!! There was a debate in my CCA recently about the attacks on USA and whether you should retaliate with military force. I couldn't speak well on the propo team as I believed you shouldn't do so and try to find other methods. But now I am not so sure anymore...

[RachelJ]

I don't know that I can add anything to what has already been said other than this is so different to what we have been up against in the past. The enemy was right here in our midst and may still be. They used our own planes to carry out their mission. This is something that will not only be the responsibility of our military but all of us to be observant in what is going on around us.