I'm in trouble with the law

[purrley]

I got a nice little present from the City where I live on New Years Eve. An officer from animal control came to my house and issued me a citation because I'm in violation of having too many of one species of animal in my home - now I have to go to court and fess up to my heinous crime. 4 cats are 2 too many - they will make me relocate 2. I'm devastated - but they're going to make a liar out of me because not one of my furkids will be going anywhere - they will have to kill me to get to them. Too bad people have to be so hateful - my faith in humanity has been shattered. These people are my neighbors who turned me in and it makes me sick. I don't know what will happen but after I take care of this matter, I get harassed again, I have no choice but to move. How would anyone else handle this?

[purrley]

Yes Spencer - they've caused me a tremendous amount of suffering to say the least - but the only way anyone can come into my house is by getting a warrent and I seriously doubt that will happen - I am a homeowner although a live in a condo complex governed by what they call CC & R's which are the rules that are enforced by the Board. According to these CC & R's I am only allowed one pet which must be under 35 lbs. I moved into this area with 3 cats 12 years ago - was not given a copy of the CC & R's, had no idea that they even existed until several years later. I rented the place for 2 years (no CC & R's) and ended up buying the place (still no CC & R's). I feel that the new Board (just elected) want to make an example out of me. If I had known, before I bought the place that this pet rule existed, I wouldn't have bought the place in the beginning. Since then I've put a lot of money into home improvements, but I think I could sell and get this money out of it if I have to. This remains to be seen.

[purrley]

My neighborhood community is just that Spencer - I recently install new windows throughout my entire condo - I needed the Board's approval to do this - also painting on the outside is done by the Board and through people that the Board approves - also everything outside the condo is repaired under the supervison of the Board - all the landscaping, roofs, etc. That's why I pay a large Maintenance Fee to live there - but everything inside the condo is my property and my responsibility. Animals are considered property and hence I think that should tell the tale. However, the NAZI Board doesn't feel that way. You know it would be different if I didn't care about my furkids - all are spayed and neutered and well fed and cared for - they're not allowed to roam the neighborhood and cause a riff with my neighbors. Oh by the way - the officer that came to my home made me license 2 cats and my dog right on the spot. So now that's not an issue. Anyway I'm getting ready to call the Court and see what's involved on the Citation - if I really need to appear before a Judge - what the fine may be etc. I'll keep ya posted. And Spencer, thank you for your help!!!!

[sasvermont]

Oh my.

I am not an attorney although I do manage a law firm in Vermont.

We once had a client who was asked to get rid of her dog because of the rules in the condo. She was allowed to keep her pet as a result of her going to a mental health provider and having him/her issue a statement saying that the companion was the main stay of this person's life blah blah blah...and she was allowed to keep it. I believe she had to put a deposit toward the pet's escrow!...and of course, she had to engage a lawyer. We did it pro bono (no charge)..... You may want to go that route and say that as the pets expire (how awful a thought) you will not add to your group...and then, I would keep them inside...

Good luck and keep us informed.

By the way, the lawyer's fee would have been around $500 dollars. Never went to court, but there was negotiating performed.

SAS

[purrley]

SasVermont - proof - it all comes down to the one and only thing that counts Money, Money, Money!!!! How sad :( :(

[zippy-kat]

:eek:WOW :eek:

GOOD LUCK!!!

I, too, know a few people who 'went around the rules' by getting a statement from their Dr. regarding their pets.

Good luck, keep us up-dated!

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Purrley, I'm so sorry that this happened, instead of being happy the pets are being taken care of there are those people who just don't care. Our daughter bought quite an expensive house and she has the same problem, can't have this can't do that. It seems the worse people in the community are always on the board, they love the power.
Good luck and I hope it turns out good for you.
Jackie

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Jackie ]

[todd]

if you love your cat,s and i now you do move to a new apt. keep up a good fight for your 4 babey,s as they are your family.give your cat,s a big hug and kiss i have a cat her name is angel and i love her with all my heart.
take care.


:) :) :) :)

[Edwina's Secretary]

I lived in a townhouse when my husband and I got married. Similar to what you described -- ownership, exterior maintenance provided (big maintenance fee) interior maintenance owners' responsibility.

I had learned from previous experience with a very secretive condo board to ATTEND ALL MEETINGS. Pets came up at one of these meetings and the whole issue was hotly debated by both board members and non-board members. There were complaints of noisy pets (one man's ceiling is another man's floor -- or wall as the case may be) pets left to run lose in the complex, business not being picked up, etc.

Where as people who volunteer for boards do tend to like control, etc., I am forced to admit that I was too lazy to volunteer for the board myself. And, in this case at least, they put up with some really crazy and irate people. I'm not sure I could have without losing my cool far more than they did.

Unfortunately they sometimes had to make seemingly inane rules to deal with stupid people -- which is often a fact of life, no?

We made friends with board members so we would know in advance what was going on, could get our voice heard about issues, and have some "clout" (this is Chicago after all!)

So you might contact some of the board members. Ask for their help in understanding what the issue is here. You may find some of them very reasonable (and pet lovers too) who will help you around the situation.

If not, at least you will know better who and what you are dealing with and what your options are.

Sara

[purrley]

I just called the court and all they want is my money. $100.00 will clear up the problem. I was given the option to appeal this to a judge if I so desired - otherwise just pay the fine and be done with it. I think I'm going to do this. They didn't need any proof of relocation or anything. Now my big question would be - how many times can I be turned in for this violation. I have no intention of giving up any of my family. I guess next time I'll just lie through my teeth and say they must be mistaken - I don't have an excess of pets. My word is just as good as anyone elses.

Edwina - I understand what you're saying. You know I know most of the Board Members and I have served on a commitee (which I have been removed from). I really don't understand why someone would be hateful enough to cause me this problem, but I kinda think it stems from across the street with an asshole that is now on the Board that I turned in a couple years ago for beating his dog. This is just speculation, but it makes a lot of sense. Anyway I'm just hoping the Board doesn't continue to make me an issue and impose continuing fines on me as time goes by - then I'll have no recourse other than to move.

The commitee that I was on dealt with this very problem. I'm all and for dealing with as you said "stupid people" who grossly defy the rules - let their dogs bark, do-do on peoples property etc and it's those people who cause all the trouble for responsible people (like myself). I too, would not like to be part of the Board due to exactly what you said "deal with irate people". But I sure as hell would survey the problem and make sure that there really was a problem before I'd go out and pursecute honest, caring and responsible people.

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: purrley ]

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: purrley ]

[sasvermont]

Purrley,

Why don't you go to your GP (doctor) and have him/her give you a statement saying that these pets are what keep you going each day - you know the drill.

I understand why some rules are created but think there is always room for modification and especially on a case by case basis.

Do you let your cats run outside? Maybe that is the problem?

Let me know.
SAS

[purrley]

No Sas - all my cats are indoor babies, all spayed and neutered and simply angels, of course. I am a recovering alcoholic and I know my doctor would write a letter stating that this harassment is hazardous to my sobriety. Maybe this is the way to go. I've been sober for 9 years by the way.

[thelmalu99]

Purrley,

:mad: :mad: These anti-pet laws really make me mad! I can't believe that people would complain about your cats when they are indoor pets and don't bother anyone! :mad:
Well, I hope you're able to convince them that you should be able to keep your babies. Good luck!

PS- Congratulations on your 9 years of sobriety! That's quite an accomplishment. :)

[lizbud]

Purrley,
I'm so sorry to hear that you are having
to deal with such vindictative people.What's
worse is also having to live around jerks
like that! I don't see how Animal Control
would get involved unless you had violated
some city or county ordinence (number of
animals per residence).Some towns really do
have limits. But well cared for indoor kitties ? That's just plain stupid !!
I'm sorry for the stress thes dumbos have
caused you. You need to save your strength
for keeping up with Tess..LOL.
I'd hire an attorney if need be to prevent
further harressment by the 'condo ' Like
Spencer has said I don't think they would
want to face a costly lawsuit.
Very best of luck with this Purrley !!!

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: lizbud ]

[sasvermont]

Purrley,

I can't believe these folks are bothering with you if your pets are inside. What the heck? You may need to find a lawyer and if you don't mind calling around, there may just be one person (probably new to the legal field) who would take this matter for you for free or very little. The other thing you don't want to do is tick these folks off so that your life is made more miserable while living there. I would go the Doctor route for sure. Seems less expensive and more realistic to me. I wish you lived in Vermont....the lawyers are very generous around here and do lots of pro bono work.

Keep us informed.

You know, with all the crime and polution problems you would think the condo board could come up with something better to complain about than pets that are being kept inside.

Go figure.

SAS

P. S. Congrats for keeping up the good work for the last nine years.

[purrley]

Sas,
Thanks for your support and yes, I wish I lived in Vermont too - if not for the legal stuff but for the gorgeous State it is ;)

[Fuzzy317]

A person (I don't actually know him) had problems with his HOA not allowing him to put up decorative lamp posts in his yard. They had no rule about house color, so to get back at them he painted his house a nice shade of pink. :D

[Cinder & Smoke]

Hi, Purrley ~

I went back and read your original post...

Originally posted by purrley:
<STRONG>...from the City... An officer from animal control issued me a citation because I'm in violation of having too many of one species of animal in my home ... 4 cats are 2 too many - they will make me relocate 2...
</STRONG>

I'm certainly no legal expert, but I think you've run up against a possibly very legal and enforcable City or local Law or Ordinance that you may have a very hard time fighting. You said a little later...

"I just called the court and all they want is my money. $100.00 will clear up the problem."

Although the Condo folks may have reported that you have 4 cats, now the City knows that you have 4 cats and is probably trying to enforce the 2 cat limit. My first question would be to the Court or Animal Control:

IF you pay the $100 fine or penalty - Are you then legally allowed to KEEP all 4 cats - or can Animal Control come back a week later and issue another citation???

You should find out if your were cited for failure to license the cats; or if you did violate a City limit on the number of same-species animals. Possibly you can solve the problem by buying a Kennel or Breeder's License? I'd ask some serious questions before you decide to fight or pay the fine. I sort of doubt that paying the fine will "solve" the problem forever. Whoever reported you this time will have no problem reporting you again.

Even if you are able to come to terms with the City; THEN you'll have to worry about the Condo Association and their :eek: CC&R's. Sounds to me like Salt Lake City is a tough place to raise a Kat Family! :(

All things considered ~ You have nothing to loose by talking the situation over with Animal Control. I'd suspect that you're not the ONLY one in Salt Lake that owns 4 cats!

*Ding* &gt;Idea!&lt; Ask a friendly neighbor to ADOPT two of the Katz - even license them in her name if necessary. Then she can just let them visit at your house whenever the cats :D want to.

Good luck; but try to find out some more details of what you're really up against.

[Eudora]

I got in trouble too. You know my previous dachschund Sugar? Well people were stepping in bits of poo all over our neighbourhood and accusing my dear, sweet Sugar of having done the dirty deed. It turned out to be a neighbour who was letting her cat run all over the neighbourhood, but the people still complained to the district authorities and I had to keep Sugar indoors for a week- no walks! you can imagine how far I had to go from our district to walk Sugar... so I think you should let a neighbour keep the other two cats til you can clear having four cats in your house... it's either that or move!!

[purrley]

Cinder & Smoke - When I contacted the Court I already told them I had a notarized letter stating that 2 of the cats had been relocated and asked if they needed to see it - they said no, just pay the fine, unless I wanted to appeal it to the Judge. So I'm going to keep the letter just in case the problem arises again. In the meantime, no one needs to know how many cats I have and it's my word against anyone elses. Also I'm strongly considering selling and moving. I don't like that a group of people can tell me what I can and cannot do!!!!!!
By the way - I wouldn't trust anyone in my condo complex to "ADOPT" any of my cats, as far as I'm concerned none of them are "FRIENDLY", sad huh
:( :(

[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: purrley ]

[sasvermont]

Purrley,

I would put moving on my "to do" list if I were you.

I hope everything works out for you and you are able to keep your pets together.

Ain't life grand sometimes?

Regards,
SAS

[ramanth]

purrley, I'm so sorry that this is happening to you.

My apartment is located right next to the main door into the building. So when Kia is outside on her lead, she can people watch the other residents. Nearly everyone runs up to her and pets her.

But one family treats her like she's the anti-Christ. Mainly it's their daughter, who, once she spots Kia either coming up the side walk or leaving the building will start screaming like a banshee. The parents will babble and flail their arms. Kia never barks, never runs at her, nothing. She just sits and looks at me like, "What's HER problem?"

I hate to add but they are of Middle Eastern decent. I only say this because they don't seem to speak or understand English very well.

I have been very patient, smiling, and saying that Kia would never hurt them. I'll even take Kia inside for a short time if I see them pull into the parking lot.

After about a month's worth of "screaming incidents" I get a note taped to my door with a complaint made against Kia about how she's left outside unattended.

This is Bull@#&%$. I'm pretty sure it was them who made the complaint. That's one strike. Three strikes and Kia would have to go.

I'll live out of my car before I give up Kia.

Lately, I haven't seen the family.

Best of luck with you purrley. I'd move too before ever giving up my furbabies.

~Kimmy

[purrley]

Oh Kim that is so awful - maybe that little girl was bitten by a dog and that's why she's so afraid. Anyway I share your feeling - I would do everything and anything possible to keep my family, someone would have to kill me to get to them. And by the way, your Kia is absolutely beautiful to say the least!!!!

[ramanth]

Thanks purrley. :)

I would guess the girl had been bitten by her reaction too. I feel very sorry for her and I try to explain whenever she does this that Kia won't hurt her.

The strange thing is... the whole family huddles together and they speak their native tongue all while eyeing Kia suspiciously.

Ah well. I haven't seen them so I think they may of moved.

I also wanted to congraulate you on your 9 years of sobriety! Way to go!!

~Kimmy

[purrley]

Thank you Kim - and I bet those people are just talking about how beautiful your Kia is and how gorgeous her eyes are. I must say if I saw you walking with Kia I would be a little intimidated too until I was sure she is friendly. You know even the tinyest dogs can be intimidating - my little Chi can growl up a storm and those little puppy teeth - ouch :D :D

[tatsxxx11]

Kim...As to your comment about the "screaming" child...I have several wonderful friends of middle eastern descent. This may be a cultural thing!! I adore them and they me. But they CANNOT fathom how I, or how Americans overall, tolerate animals, especially dogs, in our homes! The idea of a pet on a bed or kitchen makes them nuts!! They tell me that in their countries of Lebanon and Syria, household pets are frowned upon, considered dirty and disease spreading. Maybe that could be the root of her issue??

Purrley, I feel so badly for you. I went through a similar thing in an apt. years ago. "No Pets Allowed." The real estate agent assured me though that 2 kitties would be overlooked. Well, seems the renter before me had birds! I spent days cleaning up and vacuuming up birdseed :D No big deal. All was well for about a year. Until the super decided to let himself in to perform some repair without me there. I came home that night from work to find an eviction notice on my door!! "Get those filthy animals out of the apt. or you must vacate in one week." Seems one of the kids had a hairball on the floor!!!!!! :rolleyes:
Big deal! Geeeez! I went down to talk to him. He spoke mostly Spanish. He told me that I let the cats poop on the floor! I was :mad: !! He wouldn't listen to me when I said it was just fur and saliva! He kepy yelling, calling me and them names and I wanted to punch him! I don't think his culture looked too fondly upon pets being inside homes either! His reaction was SO over the top! Well, I was out of there by the end of the week!! My kids have to go, I go too!! I hope your situation gets resolved more happily!!

[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

[jennifert]

Purrley, I hope everything works out for you! It does sound like the City ordinance is the problem this time, not so much the condo rules and regs...I would definitely consult a lawyer on this one...Perhaps that ordinance about 2 of the same species in one household is an old law that needs to be modified...I don't know how you go about finding out this info or taking care of this but I'll be happy to help research via the internet!! I have had bad experience with the courts and animals in the past. The laws are written with a definite slant to humans and very little if any consideration to the pets. I actually had a judge tell my mother and I that we had one week to get rid of your dog or it was going to the pound. (this was on a first-time barking complaint from a neighbor!) So I try to avoid the "system" now and look for other ways to win the "war."
Re: the condo association. I would just move out if it's a possibility. I know it's expensive beyond belief but you may be so much happier!! My boyfriend lives in a no-pets apartment complex right now but I bring Duncan over there all the time. They started to give us a hard time and said that per the lease, dogs cannot "live" there. We countered by saying that he does not "live" there, he is licensed at my address, he just "visits" there,(sometimes for days at a time, but that's between you and me ;) ) I also called up anonymously one day and asked if I could have pets in the apartments and they asked me what kind? I named everything I could think of, bird, cat, mice, gerbil, hamster, snakes, fish, etc.. She said I could have everything except the snake and the dog. I told her she was discriminating against certain animals and she hasn't bothered us again! I don't think I have a legit argument there but it put her off or a few weeks!! :D
Anyway, I have babbled enough. Just wanted to let you know I'm wishing you well and am on your side in this one!!

PS, I have a friend that is Greek that thinks dogs inside the house are disgusting and dirty...WEIRD!!?!?! :confused:

[Gio]

I wish I could give you some advice but the laws are entirely different over here. Basically, if the pets are not considered a nuisance and there are no complaints, you can keep as many as you want. It might be different in furnished apartments.

What baffles me is that the law in your city says that you cannot keep more than 2 animals of the same species. Does it mean that you could keep 2 of 2 or more species. :confused:

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

[purrley]

My City Ordinance is 2 cats, 2 dogs, not 3 cats or 3 dogs - nothing over 3 of any species allowed within the city limits. This is a new law - our City has only been incorporated for a year. Evidently I was supposed to have received a document with all the new rules and regs in the mail and I probably did, but didn't read them. Anyway, ignorance of the law is not a defense anyway. I'm still thinking seriously of moving and will definately do so if the Condo Complex gives me any more trouble. Right now I'm worried about my dog - when I leave for work and have to put her in the crate, she just barks up a storm and I'm afraid my neighbor next door may be disturbed. I leave for work at 5 in the morning. If he complains, which I don't think he will, I will have to relocate her :(

[ramanth]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11:
<STRONG>Kim...As to your comment about the "screaming" child...I have several wonderful friends of middle eastern descent. This may be a cultural thing!! I adore them and they me. But they CANNOT fathom how I, or how Americans overall, tolerate animals, especially dogs, in our homes! The idea of a pet on a bed or kitchen makes them nuts!! They tell me that in their countries of Lebanon and Syria, household pets are frowned upon, considered dirty and disease spreading. Maybe that could be the root of her issue??</STRONG>

Wow! I never knew that. That definately makes sense. I guess in that case there is nothing I can do to convince them that Kia is a nice pooch. If I see them I'll just have to be patient as I always am or just take Kia inside.

~Kimmy

[jennifert]

Purrley, I've very worried about you and your situation! It seems like there is nothing we can do to help you and work through this situation w/o a lot of time and moeny being spent! Does the puppy bark all day or just when you first leave?

[purrley]

Jenn - oh don't worry we'll figure this out some how. And I don't know if Tess barks all day or not - I just hope my neighbor can't hear her very much. Thanks for your concern, you're a sweetie :)