Another BYB is BORN~~

[GraciesMommy]

One of the teachers here at my school just brought in her 2 month old English Bulldog that she had flown in from Florida last night, paid $1500 (plus the flight) She already has a male..he is one year old..and intends to breed..Lordie!! she is nuts..doesn't know one thing about what she is doing..found the puppy on puppyfinder.com..no telling at all what kinds of problems she will run in to..no guarantees..nothing..I asked her what she was thinking and she said "well, I need to find some way to make extra money"...oh gosh.......another BYB is born...I was speechless! All I could say is please read up on the breed first before you commit to breeding and find out all the things that can go wrong..she said she intended to..yea right..if that were true she would have done that BEFORE buying the dog..Oh, and her 12 year old is the one who did the research on puppyfind and found the dog in the first place! She is a gorgeous little girl..and I feel sorry for her already..I didn't want to give her back...kept thinking what is in store for her......makes me ill~:rolleyes:

[Logan]

Adding to this problem, Pamela, is that this is such a hard breed to breed due to their head size and other problems (thus the high cost). I do hope she wil be careful. :I

[shutterbug0303]

:mad: I can't understand why people would want to do that to dogs!!! ggrrrrrr!!! Why don't you just put your 12 yr old daughter on the street corner for some extra cash!!??!! Honestly, some people!!

[anna_66]

I know just what you mean. I can't tell you how many people I work with who are doing the same thing so they can "make some extra cash":rolleyes: :mad:

[Suki Wingy]

of all breeds to pick to breed for "extra cash", too? Obviously she didn't doo her research, or only the fact that a pet pup can do for upwards of $1000 made her buy that breed. Hope she's ready to pay the high cost for a c- section, and then the puppy vet bills when they have defects!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[pitc9]

Wow... she sure is in for it! Those dogs can not breed OR give birth naturaly!!

[KYS]

I sympathyize with you, but this woman only see's $$$.
She needs to watch on documentary on what can
go wrong with a breeding, what happens to unwanted dogs, puppy that grow up to be sickly etc. etc. :(

I guess Angie and others from what you said she will be in for
one big Vet bill.

[wolfsoul]

That's so unfortunate. Bulldogs have a very hard time giving birth. Alot of them need C-sections. Did you tell her this? Try exaggerating the cost a little bit...Tell her it's $5000 or something lol. I wouldn't be surprised if her dog died and none of the puppies made it. Maybe horrible things like that need to happen to wake people up.

[GraciesMommy]

Another gal gave me about 5 links to send to her anonymously..but I won't be able to do that without stirring up trouble..but I will see if she will let me tell her about them. I went to the links and was sick...they were horrid about things that can go wrong..I have a few months yet..she is only 12 weeks old...and she said she had to sign a contract not to breed before she was 16 months old...but she has a male in the house! And I doubt she is going to wait..she wants quick $$...its just so heart breaking to me...I have to figure out a way to get her to change her mind..

[wolfsoul]

Maybe you could tell her that C-Section is the only option for a bulldog to have pups. I know it isn't -- infact most English bulldogs can have puppies without one (it's French bulldogs that always require it). But I'm sure, that not having done her reasearch on breeding, she wouldn't know this. Just say to her, "Wow, you are lucky! I had a friend who wanted to breed bulldogs, but he just couldn't afford the C-sections!"

If she plans to breed her bully before 16 months...WOW. She shouldn't even be bred before 2 years! That right there would not only kill the pups, but it would kill her too. Her birth canal would be nowhere near big enough for the puppies heads to fit through. :(

[kt_luvs_kitties]

Maybe I could send the links for you? then it would not look like you did it, but rather someone who found out about a transaction over the net.? I just dont know what to tell you to do. That is a hard situation to be in.
My aunt breeds chihuahua pups, she has 7 females, ALL are pregnant right now:rolleyes: 1/2 of the time atleast 1 of 4 die. Sometimes WEEKS after they are born, they have seizures, brain damage, their tummies are not developed. It is truly sad. Her comment on why she breeds "because I need money, and I dont have the money to get them fixed" So she does not just breed, but unintentionally to my knowledge, lets them imbreed.Makes me so mad , poor dogs:mad: Also that she paid so much for the first 4, she wants to make her money back.
My mother in law has a english bulldog and wants to get him a mate. Thing is, she says it is so each of her 4 sons can have one, BUT 2 of those sons, including my hubby AND his oldest brother has no interest in that kinda dog, even though we love them, not enough to want to get one anytime soon.
It is just so mean and uncalled for. :( :( :(
This is two pictures of 1 that died, after I tried to keep him alive for 4 days. He had seizures and then died during the night.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/pfd3a607c703ccec9b75e63b3ff899ec9/f504b3f3.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p0b091536f96442750c0351216a2f319c/f504b3f2.jpg

[Oggyflute]

Make extra money?!!!!! Pamela I just can't belive that some people are just so ignorant of what goes into breeding. Do they do no research at all. Ok I've never breed dogs, nor do I want to, but when we got our kids, I did extensive research on the matter. Mainly because I wanted to make sure that the breeders we were talking to were reputable. I did some calculations on what my breeders spend & what they would get when selling pups etc. I might add that our breeder has won best dog at the Royal Easter Show, which would be the most prestigous show in Aus. So at selling a pup at around 1K and averaging about 7-8 in a litter, and maybe having 2 litters, sometimes 3 a year, they would get around say 16-20K in a good year (in terms of income). Then I started to work out the costs involved, and quickly came to the conclusion that if you broke even and maybe had enough to improve your kennel facilities or something, you were doing OK. Breeding properly, that is not flooding the gene pool etc. is not a way to make money. You have to have a real love & passion for it. It's very labour intensive and it would be one of the worst ways to make "a quick buck". This lady might want to try and get a second job or something. It's probably the only way for her to get extra money.
I can surely appreciate the position your in Pamela, try and educate the best way you can. Good luck trying.

Sorry, rant over, it upsets me people going of and doing something without realising the ramifications.

[veegan]

ugh that is so infuritating!!! animals are not OBJECTS to treat like puppets for ones own profit or enjoyment! GRRR. and GEEZ of all the breeds out there, english bulldogs are probably one of the most difficult to breed!! like the others said, often they require c-sections, but even more complicating, they are prone to TONS of genetic health problems (eye, skin, ear, respiratory, etc etc etc), you REALLY need to know what youre doing when breeding that breed. I imagine RESPONSIBLE bulldog breeders run tons of tests on the dogs they breed before breeding to try and avoid as many health problems as possible. if this woman were going to breed them responsibly shed be making no profit. she obviously knows nothing and cares nothing about the lives shes bringing into this world! UGHHH!!!! I am so sorry you have to deal with such ignorance. I dont know what I would do in that situation. try to educate as best you can I guess. UGH. good luck

[GraciesMommy]

Thanks for all your input...we are not close friends...but we are friends...we see each other at school every day and she does come by my office to see me regularly because she knows I have Gracie and therefore we have something to talk about..but up til now its all been fun and light hearted..now I am just worried and mad..and hope I can keep my cool when she comes to talk to me about it..I know she will expect me to be excited with her and there is no way I can do that...and I won't even try...

[LauraT7]

Am I getting the impression that this woman is a TEACHER? maybe she should have a talk with the BIOLOGY teachers in your schools!

I don't remember who volunteered above - but I would be happy to volunteer to e-mail her those links and few others.

i don't know much about the breed, but I am an ADAMANT believer in 'responsible' breeding. I have worked with Rescue and seen the results of irresponsible people. I have suffered the loss of my best friend, the BEST dog in the whole world - because of irresponsible breeding, he died of lymphoma at the young age of FIVE, and had many other genetically related problems.

the gene pools for MANY top dogs are so inbred that genetic problems are a forgone conclusion.

I just spent time researching breeds after our Tristan died, - I'd always thought it might be nice to have a flat-coat retreiver, but they are hard to find. do you know why? at one point, after about wwII - the flat-coat lines were so reduced by inherited disease, that the breed almost died out completely. Now, you can find them, but their gene pool is so small, that they can't get away from inherited risks like osteosarcoma, HD, blindness, and Lymphoma at young ages. so much so, that the AVERAGE LIFE SPAN for a flat coat, is only 7 yrs! (compared to a golden, lab, or similar size sporting dog - who can live to 11 - 14 yrs!)

The responsible breeders have to be very, very careful - because their TRUE intent should be to maintain and improve the breed - NOT to 'make money'. Ask any responsible breeder - they aren't in this to make money, or teach their kids 'life lessons', or 'continue the personality of a favorite pet' or any other stupid selfish reason. They are in it for love of their breed. If any 'make' money, it's usually for showing, and winning, with their dogs and clients dogs in shows. And it takes alot of knowledge and skill to make a winner. and there are hundreds left behind and culled out of the line, humanely, or inhumanely, for the ONE that 'makes it'.

i just adopted a beautiful Golden girl from a responsible breeder. our Fizz has an amazing pedigree and I'm sure her breeding and care has cost her breeders a couple thousand dollars over her two years of life. But they GAVE her to me - under the condition that I spay her and love her as a housepet, because she has a mild heart defect, did not pass her heart clearances. It will not affect her health or longevity - but since she is not 'perfect' they don't want to take the smallest chance that the defect might show up, or be re-inforced, in her offspring.

Some breeders would have had her killed, or 'sold' her, or bred her anyway - but they cared more about the DOG and the breed, than about money.

I would be happy to talk to this woman about responsible breeding. she no business bringing puppies into this world - If she needs money that badly, she can make it more quickly, easily and safely - by putting HERSELF out on that street corner!

I'm sorry if i offend anyone - but I feel VERY strongly about this issue.

Animal Breeding should be left to those who are willing to put a great deal of research and money and effort INTO it - without expecting anything in return but a betterment of their breed.

laura

[NoahsMommy]

I think its a good idea to have one of us send her those links. I'd be willing to do it from one of my email accounts as well.

You could just play dumb if she got upset at you.

Let me know. :)

[GraciesMommy]

Yes, she is a Sp. Ed teacher and is always looking to make a quick buck. She has been thru more schemes than I can count..I know her male dog is not even house broken but he is in the house.
Maybe at a later date I will have someone who doesn't mind send her some links/info...right now she would know I was behind it as no one else has said one negative word about it. And I do appreciate the offers...

[wolflady]

OMG! I am so sorry you're sort of stuck in the middle with this. People like this woman make me so :mad:
There are enough problems in this world that she doesn't need to add to it. People like her shouldn't even have a pet in the first place if the only reason for her having one is to breed it for a quick buck. :mad:
Just because it's a "pure bred" doesn't mean that it should be bred. :rolleyes:
Ugh!
Does she even care for her pet at all? She needs to realize how expensive it is, and working for a vet hospital, I know first hand how expensive it can be. A lot of good advice has been offered in this thread. Anyone would be willing to send her links to make her think twice ;) Just let any one of us know, and we'll be happy to do it!
**hugs**

[Karen]

If there is anything I could do, or send her ... She picked probably one of the most difficult breeds to "make money from." The head size is too big, the hips are too small ... and they don't have big litters generally anyway. Do you know who her vet is? Maybe s/he could talk to her about responsible breeding ...

[GraciesMommy]

You know, Karen..that is a good question..who is her vet..I can find out..and IF its my vet or their partner, there is my answer..I know them pretty well...and since this is a small community the odds are that she does use the same vet..I will find out today! I can call Doc Cindy and tell her the situation..and I know she will certainly try to change her thinking! Thanks again for all your help..

[Jadapit]

I worked with a lady and her and her husband have a bull dog. They decided to breed her. They had to have her AI it did take but she had a horrible time giving birth and she had to be rushed to the vets. They almost lost her. They said NEVER again and had her fixed. Your friend may be in for the surprise of her life. It's to bad she wants to breed her dog especially just for extra money.

[Oggyflute]

That's a really good idea Karen, and it might just leave Pamela out of it so to speak. Good luck with it Pamela.

[GraciesMommy]

Well problem solved itself..she came in to see me this morning and you will not believe what happen...
First off...she paid $1400 for the dog, plus the shipping and the dog can NOT be registered! The guy she got the pup from took her! He has NO papers for her..the parents are not registered altho it is supposedly purebred..he lied to her..and she only has phone conversations..his word against hers that he told her that the pup could be registered...PLUS..her male bit the pup in the mouth this weekend..5 stitches across the lip..$200 vet bill...she is in contact with the man...telling him he has til Friday to return her $ and she will return the pup but he is not budging..I dont know what will happen..but she knows she can not register the pup, therefore will not be able to get the high $ for the babies..and she is mighty upset..can not beleive she got this pup by a pic on the web, paid that kind of $ taking his word for it..what a mess! And I saw pics of the poor pup...huge gash in her mouth..

[Pit Chick]

I hope this truly is the end of this saga and she has her male fixed. She apparently doesn't care about this pup, just about it's "purebred" status and if she gets her money back from this loser BYB she'll just go buy another pup and have the same stupid ideas as before. I would still talk to the vet and see if they will convice her to have the male neutered for his own health. You could also just give her some info about the benefits of neutering and maybe find a low cost place to have it done cause if she has to pay $100 or more for a neuter, it ain't gonna happen.

Tell her it costs a lot of money to raise a healthy litter of pups and even more money to raise a disastrous litter and she won't make a profit.

[Kristl]

If she needs some "extra cash" tell her to get a %#$%& extra job!

[LKPike]

just because english bulldogs are expensive, doesn't mean youll make money on them. usually their artificialy insemenated = $$$, 99.9% of the time they have to have c-sections because their hips are too narrow = $$$, the only real good reason to breed them is if they have good breathing and wide nostrils - because if she gets a puppy whose nostrils arent big enough it will need surgery to widen them = $$$, or she could just be a b*tch and euthanize it which I pretty much know she would do since shes in this for money and surgerys expensive. usually theres only 2-4 puppies in pregnancy, usually only 1-3 survive.
Plus, theres the time and money she might be spending on bottles, formula, and sleepless nights since some english bulldog mothers wont take their babies.

whyd she pick english bulldogs? they arent an easy breed, and they certainly arent easy to breed.
My mom would really love to see this thread. Shes worked hard, since I was just little, on this breed which is about 9-10 years.

I'd appreciate it if you could print this and show her. If she'd just do a little bit of research she'd see all problems and issues with breeding them. SHE WILL NOT MAKE ANY MONEY FROM ENGLISH BULLDOG BREEDING. NO ONE EVER, EVER DOES. Shes just setting herself and her dogs up for financial and physical disaster. If I have to, I'll get my moms records and receipts and count up all the money shes lost in bulldog breeding. She does it for love of the breed, they have such huge huge hearts and unique personalitys. imo, if ever there were a list of dogs that NEED to be here, on this planet and healthy the bulldog would be close to #1.

It really hurts me to know why that teachers doing this, and to this beautiful breed.

[LKPike]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
Maybe you could tell her that C-Section is the only option for a bulldog to have pups. I know it isn't -- infact most English bulldogs can have puppies without one

lol nuh unh!! no, no, no.

English Bulldogs *usually* (I'll say around 95% of them) need c-sections. Their hips are just too narrow, and their heads, even though their puppies, are way too big. its unfortunate, but their such great dogs I just can't ever imagine a world without them! Their natural comedians, companions, lapdogs.... ok a 55 pound lapdog but still lol, they give every bit of their heart to their owner, I've never personally heard of one running away (I'm sure it happens somewhere) they simply love their owners and their homes. I do wish there were more responsible english bulldog breeders, itd be wonderful to have more of them, healthier, stronger, longer lives, etc. My mom breeds mostly for wide nostrils and better breathing (for other things too, but specificly she wanted to improve breathing so they dont struggle as much, and can play longer and harder without gasping for air after 2-3 minutes)

[bckrazy]

I so agree with everyone. My brother-in-law got their English Bulldog puppy for over $2000, he is pet quality with limited registration. There were only two puppies in his litter, both pet quality pups. The dam had to get a c-section, went home and nursed the pups for a week. It became evident that the dam had complications with her uterus, wouldn't nurse the pups and stayed at the vet for 2 weeks (at least, I dont remember exactly). She then had to be spayed, they had to remove the entire uterus. You can imagine how much this must've cost the breeder!! They luckily had another bitch who was able to raise them, but she had 4 pups of her own and Ben and his brother had to be bottlefed. Again, huge cost and huge amounts of time. Then, of course, the two puppies had to be wormed every two weeks, vaccinated, and got checked by a vet every week. Not even counting the health tests that had to be given to the sire and dam, this litter, the c-section, the emergency vet stay, the spay, the bottles/milk, and the time amounted to MUCH MUCH more than the $4000 they recieved from selling the two puppies.

Bulldogs are one of the most unhealthy breeds out there, because they are man-made and their appearance is the result of breeding mutations over many generations. They cannot breed naturally. They are very prone to luxating patellas, hip dysplasia, skin disease/allergies, breathing problems, heat exhaustion, etc. All of this is agrivated when Bulldogs are overfed or underexercised and become obese. Most of the people out there looking for an English Bulldog don't realize this, they want the dog because its "cute" and "lazy", and when the health problems start surfacing the dog is usually returned to the breeder or turned in to rescue. Does your friend know all of this? I think you really should talk to her about breeding if she is still considering it, I don't think it would be rude at all. Just express your concern and mention all of these problems to her. If she needed extra money, the last thing she should've done is bought a Bulldog (or any other dog)!

[caseysmom]

Is that the type of dog on "everybody loves raymond"???

[Oggyflute]

I just can't help thinking sweet justice. My only concern now would be for the pup.

[Giselle]

LOL Caseysmom. Yeah, it is. Shamsky II, I think LOL.

You know what the funny thing is? BYBs *know* that certain breeds are prone to C-sections. So what do they do to cut down the costs? They breed the heads smaller or mix a bit of a thin-headed dog into the b*tch so that she'll produce Bulldogge looking pups---but with smaller heads. This technique is used within BYB/puppy mill Pekingeses and that's part of why the breeders refuse to get AKC registered. This also ruins the breed, and I can't believe that literally HALF of all the Pekes I see on the 'net look more like tibbies than Pekes. It's *ugh*, I won't even start. I wouldn't be surprised if this is what happened to your friend's Bulldogge. Also, I'd be on the lookout for screw tails and eye/hip problems later in life....Poor Bully...

Everyone here is so right. I will also add to Bckrazy's experience. On the Pekingese list, there are about three litters right now. I think two required C-section, and at least one had to be bottle fed because Mom didn't produce more than a few drops of milk. And Pekes have the exact same build, although maybe not as dramatic. They have large wide heads and thin, tidy hindquarters---perfect scenario for C-section.

Rather than discourage breeding, how about encourage responsible breeding? Look at the Bulldogge Club of America's website. They're bound to have a list of breeder refferals. Print the list out and give it to your friend to see or you can personally contact the breeder in your area to help you. Perhaps, then, she'll realize the work that goes into breeding since "we've never done it".

[cyber-sibes]

Glad to hear that she's getting a dose of reality. People that don't know anything about breeding shouldn't breed! I guess people get the idea it's "easy money" because breeding sounds like something dogs do on their own anyway.....duh.
For her sake, I hope she gets her money back, gives away both dogs, and, puts a few job applications out there. She'll have a much better chance of making a few extra bucks!