training

[animal_rescue]

Maggie's stuck on treats! I can't get her to do a trick without a treat now, today I was working on tricks without treats and just praise, but she ignored me most of the time, it took me about ten times to get her to do a trick she's known how to do since she was one year old! How do I get her to work with out treats or atleast cut down? I figured I could try giving her a treat at the beginning then when she's done give her another treat?

[K9soul]

Have you tried phasing them out more gradually? Use the treats, and once you are sure she knows what you are asking, give her a treat every other time instead of every time. Then gradually give it maybe every 3rd time, and getting more random with it. I would still always reinforce with a treat at least here and there, and not cut it out completely and forever, but perhaps try phasing it out more gradually that way.

[binka_nugget]

You could try being random with the treats. Give them every second time, third time, fifth time, etc. It'll keep her guessing. I read an book once that compared it to workers who get bonuses, over workers who just get regular salary. Those who get bonuses are more inclined to do their job better.

[Shelteez2]

I agree with the random treats.

The analogy I like the best is one that compares it to gambling.

Say you're playing a slot machine. You put your quarter in and pull the lever and jackpot. You put your quarter in, pull the lever and nothing. Put the quarter in, pull the lever nothing. Put the quarter in pull the lever, jackpot. You keep putting in quarters because you remember that sometimes you do get your jackpot. And although most times you don't, you will always remember the time you did. ;)

Hope that made sense....LOL

[Vette]

LOL i love the way you put it Shelteez :D

my dog is both a praise & treat dog. he likes both about the same so hes not too picky about not reciving treats. sometimes im mean and he'll do all his tricks,, and act like ill give it to him,, and then eat it in front of him just to see his faceial reaction. LOL yeah i know,, im such a bad Mom. :eek: but i make up later for it by giving him two treats the next time. :D

[RobiLee]

I have the same problem with my girls. I know you are supposed to phase the treats out but it just doesn't seem to happen here. My girls are soooo stubburn!

[animal_rescue]

I'll try it!

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by RobiLee
I have the same problem with my girls. I know you are supposed to phase the treats out but it just doesn't seem to happen here. My girls are soooo stubburn!

I would say it has more to do with them not being 100% sure of what you are asking of them, than them being stubborn. In training, the treat should be used as a lure until the dog knows what is expected and then it is gradually phased out.

The number one problem with dogs who only work for treats is because they were never properly phased out. This is an owner error and not a dogs fault.

If the dog can do a 15 to 20 time repetition of the command with food then it is safe to assume they have a good idea of what is being asked of them. Now you want to repeat the commands in repetition mode and only reinforce every second command. When you can get to 15 or 20 in this manner then you increase the anti to every third time and so on until the lure can be forgotten altogether. If at any time there is a breakdown and you can't get to the 15 or 20 repetition limit, then you need to step back and go to where the dog is comfortable before proceeding forward again.

When a dog is first learning, you need to make sure the lure is something really special and done sometime other than meal time. Once they "catch on" I reinforce it twice a day at meal time for about 10 minutes before their bowl is set down and use there kibble as the lure but phasing it out as described above.