Recall

[Adrienne]

Hi, can anyone help. We have recently rescued a four year old English Springer and apart from being overweight through lack of excersise and matted fur he is very gentle and loving dog. My problem is we live by the river and he loves water, we can't get his attention when out on the lead, let alone off, and we are worried that we will loose him. So my question is how to attract his attention. He's not a piggy dog so treats don't work. We've tried the whistle/clicker he's excellent in the house, again not out. The overweight saga is through lack of excersise with his previous owner, and subsequently has not much muscle. For the past six weeks we have been pavement pounding with him on the lead, never letting him off. Also on the lead we cannot get his attention, he is too interested in whats out there. So again we have a problem with pulling. He has a strain of Columba aparently and so is rather larger than a normal Springer, with his extra flab he weighs in at 34kgs, so is too big to pull. We have a halter (figure eight), he doesn't even notice it's on him, and it has no effect. Sorry, a bit of a long one. Can you help?

[carrie]

Take a look in Dog Behaviour under My dog takes me for a walk! Help! This will help with some training tips and help build up respect and attention span. Always put a long line on him when there is any chance of him not responding to you off the lead. You can then be sure that he is safe and you can insist that he pays attention to your calls.

[Adrienne]

Thanks for replying to my message. I have read the "my dog takes me for a walk", and I will certainly try again some of the tips. I have already tried the walking backwards technique, but he just doesn't seem to notice what I'm doing, he just faces front and pulls against me and looks longingly at his surroundings, whichever way we walk, whether it's new or old. He just seems oblivious to whoever is on the other end of the lead. I agree with one comment that it could be dominence. But I will try somemore intensive training. As I said in my original message, my concern is getting his attention. Once I can get his attention I'm sure the rest will follow. As suggested by Carrie, we've had him on a long rope for a while now but this simply is not enough excersise for him, and really want to solve the problem. Also a guide dog trainer said that you can't teach heel on one lead and then on a rope of sorts say you can go wherever you like. Wherever we let him off he finds somewhere to go that he's not supposed to. Also, on a long rope, the less control I have when he charges off, coming back to he's a large dog, and pulling is his strong point. Once he gets a sent of a squirell or fox, he's off. When other dogs are around, he's great as he has something to draw his attention and stays and plays with their dogs, as he's very gentle and loves other dogs and people, luckily the ones we've met so far don't mind when he knocks them over! Again it comes back to recall and attention. When we are in the house he will sit, lay, stay, not perfect with stay everytime, but most as we can get his attention. When we are out on the lead, he won't even sit or look at us! Even when I stop and crouch infront of him, he turns his head, and if I hold his face and look into his eyes, he pulls away from me. It sounds like he hates us doesn't it! But in the house he loves attention and plays, he's really happy. Not knowing his past, I suppose this could be a result of how he was treated. The guide dog trainer told us that looking at his weight and that his pads were so soft he has never been out, so I suppose everything is so new to him. It took us two weeks before he would go in the garden, we had to go with him, and even then he wasn't comfortable. He loves cars and trys to get into every car he sees, and loves pushchairs. I don't expect miracles, but any ideas how to get his attention would be great. It's his safety I'm concerned with I'm afraid he will run in the road as he loves cars, or jump in the river and get sept away. Because of the floads here in England, the river is very fast running, so very worrying, and he adores water. Unfortunately every place we can go to walk him, has some interesting danger for him. So please just any tips on attention or recall, I'll try anything.

[carrie]

OK, again your problem is the fact that the dog is not seeing you as a permenant bond. In one way you are trying to do too much at a time and in another this lack of respect needs addressing. I am also an ex guide dog trainer and I'd like to know what your friend has to say about harness work. If a dog can not tell the difference between the lead and the long line how can he tell between the lead and the harness?
I have trained many, many dogs starting with the long line and the only problem is in the first instance as they think they are still on the lead - teaching the dog the command,"Off you go!" or "That's enough!" is enough. The weight of the connection is also an indicator to the dog. The first time a potential guide dog has the harness on he hasn't a clue what it is or what it means. This has to be taught, as long line training has to be taught, although it it should only be seen as a stepping stone to an obedient off lead dog.
Work on building a relationship with the dog before expecting the dog to trust and obey. The key to this is practice. If you rely on the dog to obey a command in the house, move this one command to the garden, then on to open spaces on the line. Never ask the dog to something you are not 100% sure he will obey until you can get the dogs attention whatever else is going on.

[Adrienne]

I kind of get the impression that I've affended you some way, I didn't mean to. You have made reference to "my friend" the guide dog trainer. I don't know her from adam, she is just someone I plucked out of the yellow pages for help. She had mentioned about the extended lead technique, but I think in her defence she was giving a tailored training schedule for my dog Fergus after meeting him. But we, as in the public, put our confidence in these people and pay a lot of money sometimes. She didn't show me any proof of she was a guide dog trainer, also if her technique was working I wouldn't be contacting you. I think personally, as you mentioned as well, it's a respect thing. And also as you said maybe I'm expecting too much too soon, I've just never seen a dog or had a dog this rebelient before. I'll take the training back to basics, slow it down a bit, but I'm still stumped on the attention thing, it's very frustrating. I'm trying to find a local obedience class to take him to, maybe that will help. When I get my photos developed, I'll send you a picture of the loveable rogue. Thank you again for taking the time to reply. Adrienne

[carrie]

Sorry, I'm not offended in any way! It's my fault as I have been trying to cut down on the length of my posts - obviously cut them a bit too far!! Also, I quite often sound like a complete cow but I am trying not mooo, I mean to!

If this lady was talking about extending leads then I do agree with her - I hate them with a passion (see there I go again! Loads of people use them and love them so sorry in advance to all of you!).
I would suggest holding off the training class until you have more confidence and control. The dog is going to be a hundred times more distracted in a room full of other dogs and people.
Going back to basics is the way to do it. Try each excersise in the living room first until the dog is 100% with it. Then move to the garden, first on the lead and then on the long line and eventually off lead.
Have a go at varying the rewards you give, go loopy when the dog does something right. Big fuss, silly voice, jump around (another reason for staying indoors to start with!!!) and throw a Kong or tennis ball as the final bit of the reward. You need to find a reaction that the dog loves so much he will try anything to get you to do it again.
When out in the garden occasionally call his name. If he looks at you go into the loopy routine and encourage him to come to you before you throw the toy or give him a treat. He will realise it is in his own best interest to pay attention to you.
Good luck, hope this helps and I'm sorry I came across as stroppy!

[Adrienne]

Thank you, I will definately keep trying and let you know if I have any break throughs.

[carrie]

Hi again, did you have an unflooded Christmas?
How are things going?
I hope I didn't scare you off, this site is brilliant and loads of people here are really wonderful.
Get back to us, although if you've had any sort of traditional Christmas it isn't over yet!!
Happy New Year, and we all look forward to hearing from you - just for a chat if nothing else....I'm not feeling guilty or anything...just talk to us...please!

[Adrienne]

Happy New Year to all at Pet Talk. We've had a very wet, muddy and cold Xmas - much to Fergus's delight, our carpet will never be the same again! Fergus has quietened down a bit, and triumphantly down to recommended weight of 29kgs, so he can come off the diet food. I tried him off the haltie on one of his walks to find that he was totally uncontrollable, so put it straight back on-made his day though. We've been letting him off the lead in one field (with our hearts in our mouth) and I think the novelty is starting to wear off, as he seems to be a little bit more interested in us. Although he just darts two or three times past us, it's an improvement. We take a squeaky toy with us that he only has on walks, he seems to respond to toys so that's working quite well-sort of. We still have a long way to go, but we see improvements, so can start to breathe easier. He still doesn't like staying in on his own, he panics and drinks lots of water, and being home all over Christmas won't have helped much either. But we've got him out of the bedroom, just to the landing in his bed I might add, but that's a big improvement. Thanks for your help, I'll stay intouch and keep you posted. Once I get my photos of Fergus developed, I will send one in.

[carrie]

This sounds like progress!!!! Well done!
Happy New Year!