Capital Punishment

[Miranda_Rae]

I was wondering what your guys thoughts are on Capital Punishment are. My thoughts are that if a person takes away someone elses life they should be willing to give their own life. I think that if someone kills someone they should pay for it. And I DEFINATELY don't think they should get out of jail to roam around. So what are your thoughts on it?

[dukedogsmom]

I'm all for it. I also don't agree with keeping people forever on death row and think only one appeal should be allowed. I'm sick of this scum wasting the taxpayer's money and living when they've taken other people's lives.

[Mandy1]

I'm against it. When a family member, friend, or others hear that someone has passed on they obviously are very upset. Well I guess the same thing goes for the 'killer'. When we kill him we, we don't realize what we are doing to the family and friends ect, its not their fault he did something stupid.

I also think that by killing the person we are lowering our selves to his level.

[lisalee]

Definitley for Capital Punishment. I just don't think it's harsh enough usually for the type of crime some have committed. I just sure wish it would go into effect for those who kill animals too. Sadly, I know that will never happen.:(

[Miranda_Rae]

Originally posted by Mandy1
I'm against it. When a family member, friend, or others hear that someone has passed on they obviously are very upset. Well I guess the same thing goes for the 'killer'. When we kill him we, we don't realize what we are doing to the family and friends ect, its not their fault he did something stupid.

I also think that by killing the person we are lowering our selves to his level.

I'm just curious. So for other crimes like rape, assult, etc do you think that a person shouldn't go to jail because it might affect his family? Does he not have to pay for something that he did and take responsibility for his actions? How would we be lowering ourselves to his level if we are punishing him? So for the family of the murdered they have to just know that their family/friend's killer is just sitting in jail, really not paying for what he did? I hope I don't sound upset, I am not, just trying to see where you are coming from. :)

[Mandy1]

Originally posted by Miranda_Rae
I'm just curious. So for other crimes like rape, assult, etc do you think that a person shouldn't go to jail because it might affect his family? Does he not have to pay for something that he did and take responsibility for his actions? How would we be lowering ourselves to his level if we are punishing him? So for the family of the murdered they have to just know that their family/friend's killer is just sitting in jail, really not paying for what he did? I hope I don't sound upset, I am not, just trying to see where you are coming from. :)


hmm good point.

I do think peopel who commit a crime should be in jail. Thats the point, punish him, however by causing that punishment you are hurting many others, not just him.

[Mandy1]

Also, Innocent people are been sentenced to the death penalty, theres over 100 people that were found to be innocent.

Almost all of the people sentenced for capital punishment did not have enough money to hire an attorney, which is incredibly unfair.

And sadly, race usually plays a roll in determining the capital sentance

US also sentences minors for the death penalty. I think this is incredibly wrong. When poeple are 16 they still can be helped, they have a whole life ahead of them that they can live normally if given a bit of treatment.

[Miranda_Rae]

Originally posted by Mandy1
Also, Innocent people are been sentenced to the death penalty, theres over 100 people that were found to be innocent.

Almost all of the people sentenced for capital punishment did not have enough money to hire an attorney, which is incredibly unfair.

And sadly, race usually plays a roll in determining the capital sentance

US also sentences minors for the death penalty. I think this is incredibly wrong. When poeple are 16 they still can be helped, they have a whole life ahead of them that they can live normally if given a bit of treatment.

I should have made this more clear, but I was talking about capital punishment for people who have committed murders, and there is enough evindence to show that they are NOT innocent. Then I think they should. Just because of a person's age doesn't make them not responsible for their actions. If a 16 year old kills someone that doesn't mean they will kill again, but it also doesn't mean that they won't. I do NOT think that if a 16 year old kills someone they should be pardoned, or just with a slap on the wrist because of their age, and i think that goes with other people too. How can a person live normally if they killed someone, took someone's own life?!? If someone killed someone and they were released from prison on "good behavior" or any other reason you don't know that they won't do it again. I am not saying that if anyone who murders someone will become a serial killer or anything, but you just don't know what they are capible of. Again, if their is reasonable evidence that they are NOT innocent then I think they should be punished with capital punishment, not matter what the age because every person is responsible for their own actions.

[Mandy1]

Originally posted by Miranda_Rae
I should have made this more clear, but I was talking about capital punishment for people who have committed murders, and there is enough evindence to show that they are NOT innocent. Then I think they should. Just because of a person's age doesn't make them not responsible for their actions. If a 16 year old kills someone that doesn't mean they will kill again, but it also doesn't mean that they won't. I do NOT think that if a 16 year old kills someone they should be pardoned, or just with a slap on the wrist because of their age, and i think that goes with other people too. How can a person live normally if they killed someone, took someone's own life?!? If someone killed someone and they were released from prison on "good behavior" or any other reason you don't know that they won't do it again. I am not saying that if anyone who murders someone will become a serial killer or anything, but you just don't know what they are capible of. Again, if their is reasonable evidence that they are NOT innocent then I think they should be punished with capital punishment, not matter what the age because every person is responsible for their own actions.


I agree that kids should be givin a punishment, however I don't think capital punishment would be appropriate for some 16 year old that has a whole life to live and he/she can live it properly with a bit of help and Counseling.

[Miranda_Rae]

Originally posted by Mandy1
I agree that kids should be givin a punishment, however I don't think capital punishment would be appropriate for some 16 year old that has a whole life to live and he/she can live it properly with a bit of help and Counseling.

What makes a 16 different than a 21 year old? A 21 year old has a whole life ahead of him to live too, but its alright to punish him? :confused: I am confused as to what the difference is other than age.

[Tonya]

I have mixed feelings on it. I think death is the easy way out. I'd rather see them sit and rot in jail for years, dealing with sexual, physical, and mental abuse from the other inmates. I'd rather see them in their own personal hell. But our prisons are like a country club, so there isn't much punishment. If I had it my way, there'd be no TV's, snack foods, or free time. They would work, get an education, and have just enough food and excercise to survive. There would be no equal rights or any crap like that. Why should things be fair and just for them, they didn't give that to their victims.

The death sentence isn't much different then life in prison. It takes the persons entire life before they are even executed. There are way to many appeals and whatnot.

[Miranda_Rae]

Tonya, you put it very nicely. I think we give our convicts too much lesiure and entertainment. It IS like a country club, and they are on death row for many, many years before they are put to death. There was this one prison, I don't know where it was though (in the US) that made its prisoners live in tents with te 100 degree weather and dig ditches and they had to wear stripped jump suits, you know the black and white ones, and probably other things which I can't remember. :o I think they should be treated like the criminals which they are. And you are right they certainly didn't give their victims a chance or a right. :(

[Mandy1]

1. The imposition of the death penalty is racially biased:

· Over 80% of persons executed were convicted of killing whites, although people of color make up over half of all homicide victims in the United States.


2. The death penalty discriminates against the poor.

· Over 90% of defendants charged with capital crimes are indigent or cannot afford to hire an experienced criminal defense attorney to represent them. They are assigned court-appointed attorneys who may be inexperienced or underpaid.


· In most states the pay for court appointed attorneys is so low that lawyers assigned to capital cases will lose at least $20-$30 an hour if they do an adequate job. In Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi defense attorneys are paid a flat fee of $1,000—which translates into about $5 an hour for most lawyers.


3. The death penalty sometimes condemns the innocent to die.

· Since 1973, more than 108 people in 25 states have been released from death row with evidence of their innocence. In other words, 1 in 7 of those on death row have been freed after being fully exonerated.


4. The death penalty is not a deterrent to violent crime.

· In 1999 the average murder rate per 100,000 people in U.S. states with capital punishment was about 5.5, while only 3.6 in states without capital punishment.

· Governments that have enacted the death penalty continue to have higher civilian murder rates than those that have not. The five countries with the highest homicide rates that do not impose thedeath penalty average 21.6 murders per every 100,000 people, whereas the fivecountries with the highest homicide rate that do impose the death penaltyaverage 41.6 murders every 100,000 people.

· In Canada the rate of homicides has fallen since the abolition of the death penalty, from 3.09/100,000 in 1975, the year before the abolition, to 1.76 in 1999.

· Police chiefs say that violent crime is best reduced by reducing drug abuse, a better economy and more jobs, simplifying court rules, and longer prison sentences.


5. The U.S. leads the world in applying the death penalty to minors:

· The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the American Convention on Human Rights, and the Convention on the Rights of the Child all prohibit execution for crimes committed before a person reaches the age of 18.

· Since 1990, only seven countries have executed people for crimes they committed when under 18 years of age: Congo (Democratic Republic), Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, and the United States. The U.S. has executed more children than any of the other countries, 18 since 1990.

(sources: Amnesty International and Death Penalty Information Center)

The criminal justice system sends innocent people to death row, applies the death penalty in a racially discriminatory fashion, and disproportionately executes society’s most vulnerable people. These facts further the case for abolition.


While being clear about our opposition to the death penalty, we acknowledge the deep grief of families of murder victims and victims of capital punishment laws. We join all compassionate people in holding them in our prayers and committing ourselves to walk with them. We also find wisdom in the counsel of “Murder Victims Families for Reconciliation” who tell us that, “Reconciliation means accepting that you cannot undo the murder but you can decide how you want to live afterwards.”

Mr. President, we urge you to lead our country toward the way of restorative justice instead of death and revenge.

Sincerely,

James Schrag, Executive Director
Mennonite Church USA

Here are some good points taken from
Here (http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/dpletter.html)

Obviously people find its wrong to sentance minors, many countries and states have banned it.

[carole]

I have mixed feelings on this one too, one part of me is all for it, especially if they are proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt, an eye for an eye is what I believe in, but then no system is perfect and innocent people have been sentenced to death before, so that is not going to change in a hurry.

NZ has no captial punishment at all, I have a problem when jailed for LIFE does not really mean life, they are out on parole in ten years, that sucks bigtime IMO., life should be exactly that, if you are not going to use captial punishment, then make LIFE mean LIFE.

Yes criminals have familys, and obviously it affects them, and I do have compassion for them, but more so for the victims families, they have top priority as far as I am concerned, you can't be thinking about the criminals familys feelings as well.

Prison life is far too good in this country, especially low security prisons, that is why criminals re-offend, they don't mind a spell in a low security prison, they don't have to worry about supporting themselves, putting food in their bellies, or a roof over their head, some re-offend just to get in there.

My american friend is going to be training to become a prison officer in Jan , so I will be really interested to get an insight into our prison services.

Now go and look at the prisons in some asian countries, now thats a tough life, getting caned, living in squallor, I am not sure I advocate that for our prison, but it might be a slight deterent to choose a different lifestyle than prison.

[Kfamr]

I have mixed feelings as well.

I don't believe death would be punishing the prisoner.... it'd just give them a free ride out of this world, in which they've made others suffer.

[Miranda_Rae]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I have mixed feelings as well.

I don't believe death would be punishing the prisoner.... it'd just give them a free ride out of this world, in which they've made others suffer.

Yes, in a way it does give them a free ride out, but if they have no moral and if they don't care what they did or what happens to them, what difference does it make to them?

[RICHARD]

Miranda you are thinking of Joe Arpaio he is the sheriff that runs the prisons in Arizona-

http://www.reelectjoe.com/

[Miranda_Rae]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Miranda you are thinking of Joe Arpaio he is the sheriff that runs the prisons in Arizona-

http://www.reelectjoe.com/

Yes! Thats who I was thinking of! I knew there were a few other things, like the pink underwear. ;) Hey, some guys like pink! I didn't know who it was though.

[carole]

Some peoples logic is that because they loose their right to freedom, that in its self is the punishment, not sure I agree with that myself though.:)

Miranda Rae, you are right some of these people could not care less about anything.

[Desert Arabian]

I'm a pretty cruel person- if you kill someone you should die too- AND in the fashion that the victims were killed, that way the animals will feel the pain their victims felt.

So...if you shot someone, then you should be shot....if you ran someone over, then you should be ran over.

Oh, and prisions are way to nice- gyms, TV's, basketball courts, air conditioning, heating, warm meals...too many luxuries. I'm more for 10'X10' stinky, smelly, rat/flea infested, dark cell. Innocent homeless people and low income families don't even have the luxuries that a MURDERER has in prision- what's up with that!? :confused:

Yep, harsh I know, sorry can't help it but I can't stand criminals. If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime.

[Becki]

Personally, I am opposed to the death penalty. I am not opposed to punishment, but I do not feel the death penalty is appropriate. First, too many innocent people have been released from death row following exoneration. These are people that had enough evidence for a jury to convict, but errors in judgment were still made. I do not feel that is a risk worth taking.l

Second, from a cost standpoint, it is more expensive to sentence someone to die than to sentence someone to life in prison when you consider all of the legal costs associated with the appeals processing that go along with it.

Third, I cannot see myself being the one to end someone else's life, no matter what the reason. I cannot expect someone else to do what I cannot. It is morally reprehensible.

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by Becki
Second, from a cost standpoint, it is more expensive to sentence someone to die than to sentence someone to life in prison when you consider all of the legal costs associated with the appeals processing that go along with it.

And it costs a lot money to build new prisions to house the criminals in and provide food for their stomachs and pay for the heating, electrical, and utility bills.

[Becki]

I won't say it doesn't cost money for those things, but that doesnt change how much money it costs to take a person from first arrest through execution. The mandated appeals process is not cheap. The death penalty has not been proven to be an effective deterrent to crime. I think there are people who need to rot in jail, never see the light of day and live truly miserable existences while they are in prison. I just don't agree with the death penalty.

[Pit Chick]

"Eye for an Eye..."

Someone mentioned previously that by executing a murderer you're also hurting their family and friends. By killing someone, that person just hurt the victim's family and his own, not the judicial system. Someone also said that capitol punishment isn't a very effective detterent. It would be if it was carried out more often and with harsher methods besides a needle in the arm and a nice loooong nap. People know they can get away with murder and they'll just sit in jail and not have to worry about taking care of themselves because the tax payers are paying for everthing and they'll just appeal their case until they die of old age. Criminals have more rights than their victims these days and that's not fair.

I agree with YellowLabLover, if you kill someone, you should have to endure the same pain and manner of death as your victim.

"Eye for an Eye..." Straight from God's mouth.

[RICHARD]

e.e. cummings was a great example of capital punishment.

http://www.101bananas.com/poems/cummings.html

[carole]

There are arguments that are valid on both sides, however I sure as heck know if someone took a member of my family's life, then I would want them to pay for their crime with their life, why should they have the privilige of experiencing life of any kind, when they took a life.

I always remember a horrible murder case in NZ, a young girl about 13 was murdered , he actually buried her alive, can you imagine that, he did his time and got released, her step father threatend him and ended up in court for it, luckily the judge went easy on him.

Capital punishment has its place IMO.

Yellowlablover I can understand what you are saying,when I hear of horrific crimes like the above, I want that murderer to experience the same suffering as the victim, but then people say we would be just as bad as he is then, its a tough call.

[Miranda_Rae]

Originally posted by carole
I always remember a horrible murder case in NZ, a young girl about 13 was murdered , he actually buried her alive, can you imagine that, he did his time and got released, her step father threatend him and ended up in court for it, luckily the judge went easy on him.

Wow! Thats awful! I can't believe how evil some people are. It makes me sick. I don't blame her SF for threatening him. I've known a few murders, and I don't know what their sentences are but I think one is getting tried as an adult. I think in his case for what he did, I don't think he should be let out at all! He beat a blind man with the man's walking stick. :(

[KYS]

I am for capital punishment only if 100% sure
that person commited the crime.
I also think prisons should be run more like Alcatraz
for harden criminals with serious crimes.
Staple food only with reading priviliges.

I will also say that I am not sure I could
make that decision to take someone's life either.

[carole]

What about the horrific case in England some time ago , where a young boy was abducted from a shopping mall, by two teenagers, they tortured him and beat him so bad and left him to be run over by a train, the torture I won't even say, as its so bad it makes me feel sick to even type it.

These two are going to be released and they will be given new identity's and could even go to another country, NZ was hinted as one, and go to university or whatever and no-one will be the wiser, this is an outrage, and I am signing a petition against this being allowed.

Personally I would have no trouble at all sentencing these two to death, this child suffered so much and he was competely innocent and I believe he was only like 7 years old if that.

I cannot imagine what his poor parents have to live through every day of their lives for the rest of their lives, and these two will get to continue their life, in secret no-one knowing what a terrible crime they committed, thats justice for you.:mad:

[cocker_luva]

im all for capital punishment! if they deserve it, execute 'em.

[Tonya]

They should be turned to slaves. We have plenty of trash to be picked up on the side of the highways and graffiti to be cleaned up. Chain them all together, they won't run.

[cocker_luva]

i think all experiments they do on animals should be done on prisoners with life sentences. i mean, they're not goin anywhere and the results would be more accurate then a little doggie.

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by dukedogsmom
I'm all for it. I also don't agree with keeping people forever on death row and think only one appeal should be allowed. I'm sick of this scum wasting the taxpayer's money and living when they've taken other people's lives.

AMEN. My opinion exactly.

[Pit Chick]

i think all experiments they do on animals should be done on prisoners with life sentences. i mean, they're not goin anywhere and the results would be more accurate then a little doggie.

I've often thought that same thing. What better way to find a cure for aids or cancer too.

[cocker_luva]

yep