Stolen Picture

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

'Morning Everybody :)

Check this out to see the surprise of my morning!

I was reading a post by Kuhio in Cat Rescue about a Midwest transport that is needed. I went to check out the site that she mentioned in her post

http://www.petfinder.org/shelters/NY413.html

When what to my surprise I see?!!??!!

Check out the 6th picture down on the left. Does that look like anyone you know?

And then, as a matter of fact, check out this site.

http://catoftheday.com/archive/2002/May/02.html

See any similarities??!!?? :eek: :eek:

I am going to be sending them an email, but will hold off for a bit so you guys can check it out.

[Maresche]

OMG! It's Peanut isn't it.....?

Well, they just wanted the most exquisite examples of cats they could find.

[Barbara]

This would make me mad! And it lets you wonder where the other kitties came from:mad:

[pitc9]

OMG!!!!:eek:
It's Peanut!!!!

Even if they just wanted to use the picture... they could have asked you!!!!!!!

[sirrahbed]

Well it is most definitely our Peanut. They should have asked....but I would be very flattered:p They have VERY good taste:D

[Kona & Oreo's mom]

Wow! You can tell they took it straight from the COTD site because you can still see the bevelling around the edges. Most of the other pictures also have that bevelling, so I wonder if they too are former COTD? Does PT have any connection to that "Kitty ResQ"?

[KYS]

It's definitley the same picture.
I would think that they should ask
for permission too.
I wonder why they don't use pictures of their
own cats?

Oh well, Peanut makes a wonderful representative
for their shelter.

[Samantha Puppy]

Good call on the beveling. I bet those other pictures with it are former COTDs.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by Kona & Oreo's mom
Does PT have any connection to that "Kitty ResQ"?

That's a good question! I noticed that you could see in the upper right hand corner where they took the COTD logo out, but I didn't notice the beveling. And now that you mention the beveling, I do see it on the others, so I wonder.....

Have to email Paul or Karen. If they gave permission that's fine since technically I gave them permission to use the pic when I submitted it, but it's still wrong because to me, a rescue should be posting pics of cats that they have - or have had - up for adoption. Not just random pics of cats. Makes me think less of them as an organization.

[Dogz]

Wow, that's strange. I think it'd be a good idea to email Karen or Paul.


If it were me, I would call them & tell them them that you were interested in a certain kitty... ;)

[gini]

Debbie, this is indeed strange.

1. How did they get this picture?

2. Why aren't they using "real" pictures of cats instead of picking it up from Pet Talk?


I do think this would make me mad too, if I found Rascal's picture on this site.

It makes me not trust them.

[Karen]

They did NOT receive permission from us to use those pictures. And it's not just Peanut whose image they "stole" from Cat of the Day! It'll take me a few minutes to pull up all the links, but I recognize almost all those kitties as being from CatoftheDay.com.

I will write to them and tell them that it is not fair - or ethical - to use images of cats who already have loving homes and whose owners did not give them permission. They are a shelter - surely they have cats and kittens whose picture they could take and use!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Just to be devil's advocate....perhaps they wanted really good photos of cats and could not afford to have them taken?

I'm not justify what they did....just suggesting there might be a good reason for doing something not good.

[Karen]

Pooty: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2003/June/17.html

Pippin: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2002/November/28.html

Frankie: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2002/October/04.html


They COULD have asked for permission if they didn;t have images of their own - but they DO have images of the kittens they have up for adoption on Petfinder - why didn't they use those?

[gini]

Sara, I agree, but did they think someone wouldn't notice?

They do have pictures of their kitties that are up for adoption, if you go into the site.

[NoahsMommy]

Oh my gosh, that would have been a shock if I saw one of my kitties on a rescue site. Peanut, you're famous! ;) Can I have you?? ;)

I agree, all they had to do was ask permission.

[Maya & Inka's mommy]

No doubt about it, THAT IS Peanut!!
I would be so mad for this :mad: ; makes me doubt about that "rescue" organistion....!! I would definitely write them a mad e-mail!!!

[Jods]

Wierd you'd think they'd want to put pics up of their own shelter cats. Or maybe they just chose these cats to make themselfs look better. I think they should be told about stealing pictures especially since they are a rescue organization. I think you should email and say you wanted to adopt the 6th kitty down LOL that would be hilarious!
They should have asked you permission!

[Uabassoon]

I'm curious to see how they respond to you about those stolen pictures. If that happened to me I would be both flattered and angry. All they needed to do was ask, it's great that they think your picture of Peanut is beautiful and want to use her as a "poster child" for adoption. However it is wrong for them to steal a picture, not to mention illegal.

[Killearn Kitties]

How peculiar! I'll look forward to hearing what they say. That must have been odd for you to see little Peanut looking back at you!

I had never seen Peanut's Cat of the Day page before though, so that was nice!

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by gini
Sara, I agree, but did they think someone wouldn't notice?


It's a small world after all....;)

[Barbara]

I think it is not honest no matter for what reason they did it. It is like sending another picture in when you have a lonely hearts ad in a magazine.

It suggests the people who are there these cats could be adopted.

They did not ask for a copyright. Authors, publishers and a lot of other people live of copyrights and it is a way of stealing. (Ok, there are more dangerous ways but it is).

Plus they knew they were wrong because they erased the COTD logo.


After that I would have problems to trust them with their good work
:(

[Jamieejo85]

WOW....using one kitty is bad enough but they have a couple more from Pet talk on there as well (as karen posted). I was just wondering if anyone had emailed them yet and what they said in their own defense. I would be mad...:mad:
~Jamie

[wolflady]

OMG! That is so strange! I agree with everyone here, why didn't they just use pictures of their adoptables, or ask Karen permission to use the COTD cats! I agree it's flattering, in a way, that they used so many pictures from COTD, but it's really strange also. I'm curious to know how they respond when confronted about this. Please keep us posted! :eek:

[sasvermont]

...............I think it is not honest no matter for what
reason they did it. It is like sending another picture in when you have a lonely hearts ad in a magazine......... <------- now why didn't I think of that! I could use a date.....maybe I could send in a photo of JLo or Britney....and see what I could come up with......

It is your Peanut. I am not sure about copyrights etc. on the internet. I know that I copy some photos from here and use them as backgrounds from time to time, but not for commerical use. Actually, I did use Graemer and Gabe's RB photo for my tags on my mittens. And Sarah's niece did the cut and paste to make the photo.

I guess the deception really comes in when they are pretending that these beautiful cats are ones they have found homes for or will need to finds homes for....... sorta goes along with not asking permission. I would be flattered to be asked to submit a photo....but not misrepresent a non-profit (?) organization.

I would be angry too! I am angry. Forget that thing about the lonley hearts club ad and someone else's photo. My luck the guy would be doing the same to me!

We love our Peanut...and she isn't homeless by a long shot!

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by sasvermont
We love our Peanut...and she isn't homeless by a long shot!

Thanks SAS. I sent these links to Terry and sometimes he's kind of dense. He didn't get it and asked "why is her picture there?" I said "Well evidently she's up for adoption." He said in an angry voice "NO she's not!" I just laughed because she most definitely is NOT up for adoption. I was just being fisicous (does anyone know how to spell that word:rolleyes: ) and he didn't get it. ;) :D

I haven't heard anything back, but I wouldn't be surprised if I did hear anything, they just took the picture down.

[gini]

Deb, not sure what you meant about "they just took the picture down" - because it is still there.

However, what about the other COTD pictures they swiped?

I betcha our Mayor gets a response!!!

[Edwina's Secretary]

facetious

[carole]

Would have been manners to simply ask permission, does make you query this rescue somewhat? obviously they would have plenty of beautiful kitties to display that are indeed homeless.

Still I am in agreement they sure picked one excellent model for the shoot, your furbaby Peanut is exquisite!!!:)

[Logan]

What a mess!!! :eek:

Just last week, I chastized a member of an MSN group for posting her "Cat of the Day", "Dog of the Day", and "Pet of the Day" on our group and it was an exact copy of what we see here!!! I deleted the posts, and suggested that if anyone wanted to see them, they could come directly here. The owner of the site (where I am an assistant manager) took the time to check out this site and totally agreed with my decision. That person had even posted the descriptions as if she had authored them herself!!! Made me so mad!!!! :mad: I let her know that I "knew" the people who own this site and that although I thought they would appreciate a link, they would not appreciate having direct copies of their choices for POTD, etc shown on another site!

[Karen]

I emailed them and asked that they remove all our images immediately.

Curious about those kitties?

Pooty: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2003/June/17.html

Pippin: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2002/November/28.html

Frankie: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2002/October/04.html

Shiva: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2002/September/01.html

Mano: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2000/August/03.html

Peanut: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2002/May/02.html

Zabu: http://catoftheday.com/archive/1999/July/08.html

Taz: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2003/March/08.html

[Freckles]

Talk about good examples of bait and switch!:)

[zippy-kat]

I'm tempted to email them and ask about "adopting" Peanut... it'd be interesting to see what/if they responded.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

OMG! Every single picture they used is from COTD!!! :eek: :eek: I thought I recognized the little gray one with the white spot, but the others I only recognized by the borders - and of course Peanut I knew right away.

Deb, not sure what you meant about "they just took the picture down" - because it is still there.
I meant that I wouldn't be surprised if they just took the picture down and never bothered to email me back. Bad sentence structure I guess. :o

facetious
Thank you! I knew it was really a word, but I was having brain fade and could not for the life of me even get close enough for spell check to correct it for me. :o

Still haven't heard anything back.....

[Samantha Puppy]

Originally posted by Karen
I emailed them and asked that they remove all our images immediately.

Curious about those kitties?

Pooty: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2003/June/17.html

Pippin: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2002/November/28.html

Frankie: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2002/October/04.html

Shiva: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2002/September/01.html

Mano: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2000/August/03.html

Peanut: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2002/May/02.html

Zabu: http://catoftheday.com/archive/1999/July/08.html

Taz: http://catoftheday.com/archive/2003/March/08.html :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Cookiebaker]

I know how upset everybody feels, and I feel the same way.

However, I am curious to know if there are "laws" out there that protect a webpages content. I know of some pages that you cannot "rightclick" on them to save them, but get a copyright error. I don't see anywhere on the catoftheday page where there is a copyright notice, or that you need to ask permission to use the photos.

Does this mean that of no webpage you can use the photos found there-on? I know that I have in the past found pictures I liked and used them for a background, or printed them out without asking permission. I always check for a copyright notice though.

Again, I'm not asking to be a jerk, I'm asking because I would like to know what the policy/law is. :confused:

[Karen]

In general, it is much safer to ask a website's permission than to assume anything.

From the "Nominate Your Pet" page

Â_Â_Â_ All material submitted becomes the property of Pet of the Day and all copyrights are assigned to us. This is to protect us and prevent others from reusing your work. You do, however, retain the rights to your material for your own use.


You can print out a Pet of the Day's picture, hang it on your fridge, use it for your personal background ... anything that's for your own personal use.

You cannot sell a CD of our images, post them on your own site without attribution, linking, or permission, pretend they are your images, print them on a poster or in a book without permission, or anything else.

The other site took the time to erase the CatoftheDay award plates from these cat's images, so we know THEY know they were doing something wrong.

[Samantha Puppy]

I don't know about policy or law, what has me so heated is that they're misleading the public. If I were someone in their area and accessed their page and saw one of those cats, I'd expect to be able to inquire about adopting THAT pet in THAT picture. I have NO idea why they wouldn't use pictures from their shelters/rescue. To me, it would tug on my heartstrings much more to see a kitty in a shelter than a beautiful cat in front of a wicker chair or a pretty background, who is obviously happy and well taken care of...

[Cookiebaker]

Thank you for clarifying that so well, Karen. :) I understand (and agree) with everything you said.

One idea is to maybe make the copyright notice on the actual dotd, cotd, and potd pages to make it that more prominant?

And in response to Samantha Puppy:


I don't know about policy or law, what has me so heated is that they're misleading the public. If I were someone in their area and accessed their page and saw one of those cats, I'd expect to be able to inquire about adopting THAT pet in THAT picture.

I take it more to be a pretty cat banner, rather than "these are the individual cats we have for adoption" kind of thing. Otherwise their banner would be changing every single day.

But again, I do think it is disgusting to take what is obviously somebody else's work and make it to be their own (taking the cotd logo off!!!)

[aly]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

How dishonest and sneaky!!!! I can't believe they did that!!! OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: *mouth hanging open*

Sheesh.. I'm sure it was just one person who was responsible for doing it. It is a shame that they have made the whole shelter have a negative image because of it.

[smokey the elder]

Unbelievable!!:eek: :mad:

[lizzielou742]

Um, that's just strange that they would do that!!!
Weird!!!
:rolleyes:

[Karen]

People from that site contacted me and said, in part:



By no means are we leading anyone to believe these kittens are available for adoption or that they were kittens previously adopted through or organization. NEVER before, prior to you has anyone ever thought the pictures were anything more than decoration.


Without mentioning Peanut by name, she said she had been contacted by one cat's owner annd that that image would be taken down.

I am hoping, after I forwarded her the proof - the links - that she will remove our other images as well.

I know they are a shelter, and are doing important work, but surely they have plenty of adorable kitties whose photos they could use.

[gini]

Hip Hip Hooray for our Mayor.

Peanut - you owe a big head bumpie to Karen!:D

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

I also got an email that was a cc: of what they sent Karen, along with this note

It amazes and disappoints me that you would even care that the picture is being used for such a good cause. Nothing was "stole" as nothing is copyrighted. It will be taken down.

I feel sorry that you would act this way.

It's as if they are trying to make us feel guilty for not helping such a worth cause. :rolleyes: I wrote back and said that I would have had no problem whatsoever - if she had only asked first.

As of 5:11 pm cst, Peanut is still there, but I'm thinking that's just because they need to contact whomever did their site to take her down.

[Kona & Oreo's mom]

Nothing was "stole" as nothing is copyrighted.

I must disagree with this statement. Having worked in publishing for a long time, I know that a photograph is covered by copyright the instant it is "fixed in tangible form" and that includes a digital photo "fixed" in computer memory. Without doing anything (such as publishing it, registering it, or putting a circled C on it), the photographer holds the legal copyright of the photo as the creator.

When you submitted the photo to POTD, you transfered your ownership of copyright to POTD as explained by Karen. The shelter, despite the good work they do, is not legally allowed to alter or reproduce and distribute the images without permission of the new copyright owner, POTD.

Copyright law is very complex and in some places "gray." However, on this matter it is quite clear. Don't let them make you feel guilty for defending your rights.

[catnapper]

[i]It amazes and disappoints me that you would even care that the picture is being used for such a good cause. Nothing was "stole" as nothing is copyrighted. It will be taken down.

I feel sorry that you would act this way.

OMG - Is this person brain dead? I'd never "borrow" a photo from one site to put on my own. I don't even like to use clip art on my website for fear of this very thing.

How would they act if they happened across a picture they took - no matter if it was of their cat, their vacation or their son? Its freaky to see something you did appear out of nowhere.

[guineapiggie13]

Geezm and without your permission! That for sure is Peanut. I mean, at least put your own cat pictures in! :rolleyes:

[sammy101]

geez!:eek: I would get soo mad if i saw my cats face on a adoption website:mad:
Im sorry that something like that happened to you

[lbaker]

I'm sure Jenluckenback and plenty of other cat recuers from this site would be more than happy to send pictures of "real" adoptable cats/kittens. Is there such a thing as a picture of an "unadoptable" cat/kitten? Does any picture of Magoo make you do anything but awwwwww, how sweet and dear... The road to Hell is paved with good intentions - WHICH IS NOT SAY GOOD INTENTIONS ARE EVIL OR WRONG. But in this case I would say totally uncalled for and un-needed. Special needs cats/kittens - just like special needs children are even more loved in the Lords eyes

[Kfamr]

Unfortunately, i've seen Simba's pictures used many times, without my permission. I've also seen graphics I've made for others without my permission. You'd think they'd understand and just use their own cats. I mean, it's not like their pictures (from what I saw on their petfinder site) are of bas quality.

[Vermontcat]

Hmmm... seeing as how Princess Peanut is now a supermodel posing for a rescue, maybe you should charge them a "fee" for using her photo on their website.;)

This whole thing just isn't right, they stole the photos from Cat of the Day, plain and simple.:(

[cocker_luva]

this is the email that i sent them afew minutes ago.


"Are you aware that your shelter is ILLEGAL?!? Almost all of the photos of cats and kittens on the left side of the screen are STOLEN pictures of peoples' pets that were posted on catoftheday.com. I, along with our whole site, is appalled that your 'innocent' kitty shelter is run by CRIMINALS. I wouldn't be surprised that all 8 cat owners, whose personal property YOU stole, sue your stealing 'shelter.' We are all notified and you will be hearing alot from the Pet Talk group from dogoftheday, catoftheday and petoftheday.com!!!!! I hope that this will stop and you will realize that what you have done is wrong. Please, do the right thing!

~upset Pet Talk member"

i wrote "Adopting some kitties!!" in the subject slot, so i think they will open it and see it faster.

[Tonya]

It really was a stupid thing to do. Copyright laws or not, it's just common decency to ask for permission before posting other people's pictures. I don't think we should beat them up over it though. I am sure that they learned their lesson. Hopefully from here on out, their pictures will focus on their adoptable cats instead of our kitties.

[Uabassoon]

I can't believe how rude they were about the situation! You'd think they would have given you a decent apology instead of trying to make you feel guilty.

[lizbud]

Wow, I am surprised that this group wasn't more apologetic.

Their site said this "Our kittens come from around the country and you will find the unique, the rare mixes as well as the cutest of the cute here. Unfortunately we aren't large enough to save them all (yet), so we do hand pick the best for you! "


They did hand pick the BEST, they chose COTD pics.:)

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom


It amazes and disappoints me that you would even care that the picture is being used for such a good cause. Nothing was "stole" as nothing is copyrighted. It will be taken down.

I feel sorry that you would act this way.



It amazes and disappoints me that common courtesy
has gone so far by the wayside that they don't even ask permission to use what belongs to someone else. Being a "good cause" doesn't give you a free ticket to do as you please. I think they are faling to understand that using the picture isn't the problem...not asking is!

[guineapiglover4life]

Oh my! If I saw my kitty on there I would be SO MAD! :mad: :mad: :mad: The owners should sue the site! Please keep us updated!

[popcornbird]

Woah! :eek: I would be SO ticked off if I came across a website using pictures of my pets without asking. You'd think they'd at least apologize, but they're trying to make you feel guilty instead. How low can one get? :(

[Nomilynn]

I am totally shocked. Completely shocked! Has anyone emailed Petfinder as well? Because isn't Petfinder like a "sponsor" to that specific shelter?

My goodness.. I would be completely dismayed if someone thought they could take one of my pictures without asking. Sad that they don't even care :(

Edited to add: it's 7pm PST and all the pictures are still there.

[QueenScoopalot]

It astounds me that a shelter can't use their own cats, and kittens as a banner, or at least go to one of the "free graphics" sites and use those! And then to add insult to injury, try making everyone feel guilty about this outright theft. :rolleyes: :eek: :mad: I guess we'll all be seeing what the outcome is in a day or so. I'm curious as to how long this has been going on? :confused:

[ramanth]

The audacity! :mad:

[sammy101]

Has anyone heard anymore from them??

[Karen]

Sammy - see my earlier post about what they wrote back.

I have not heard from her since my response to her.

[kimlovescats]

Karen ... it will take longer, but you may have to use the "no right-click code" on all of your Pet of the Day pics! If you need the code, I can send it to you! ;)

Also, I haven't checked the link again to see if Peanut's picture is down ... but if you keep clicking the same link, it will show anyway... you will have to refresh your browsers to see any changes! ;)

[kimlovescats]

My shelter (Cats4Keeps) is listed on Petfinder.com, so I have access to the management. I have sent an e-mail informing them of this illegal use by this other shelter! I hope this will help!

Kim;)

[leslie]

Just saw this and am very disappointed in the pet shelter/rescue community. Why would they do this to their own? They have no pretty cats? What the h? I will support anyone who wants to pursue any legal action; should that deem a positive move for pettalk in terms of our privacy being guarenteed!

[shais_mom]

It is 1:20 AM on 11-13-04 in Ohio and all the COTD pics are still there.......

people are shameless.

[EssTer]

:eek:

[Barbara]

Originally posted by Kona & Oreo's mom
I must disagree with this statement. Having worked in publishing for a long time, I know that a photograph is covered by copyright the instant it is "fixed in tangible form" and that includes a digital photo "fixed" in computer memory. Without doing anything (such as publishing it, registering it, or putting a circled C on it), the photographer holds the legal copyright of the photo as the creator.

When you submitted the photo to POTD, you transfered your ownership of copyright to POTD as explained by Karen. The shelter, despite the good work they do, is not legally allowed to alter or reproduce and distribute the images without permission of the new copyright owner, POTD.

Copyright law is very complex and in some places "gray." However, on this matter it is quite clear. Don't let them make you feel guilty for defending your rights.

I wanted to say the same thing. They are not right. Basically the copyright is always with the creator. He can transfer the right to other people (like to Karen when you submit a picture) but if the right hasn't been transferred to you then you don't have it.

Coypright law (especially international copyright law) is very complex but whoever publishes on the internet should have a basic idea about it.

[guster girl]

I definitely agree that the designers of the site should have asked permission before using the photos on their own site. I agree that their reaction to being approached about their mistake was anything but professional. I do think, however, the best way to respond is politely and professionally. I don't necessarily think it should be just left exclusively up to Karen to contact them, but, I do think we could maybe try to avoid resorting to name calling in our communication with the site. It's more than likely one person putting the site together, and, it looks to be a very basic site at that. It's quite possible that they didn't know it was illegal. Folks are always copying and pasting photos to show them to others. Whoever did this could have possibly honestly made a mistake. Again, I'm not saying it's not right and that they shouldn't be aware now of the laws and that they should ask Karen for permission (if it's not too late, from them being less than apologetic to polite requests). I'm just saying that maybe being hateful about it might a bit counterproductive. Just my two cents, I'm not flaming anyone.

[Vio&Juni]

Originally posted by kimlovescats
Karen ... it will take longer, but you may have to use the "no right-click code" on all of your Pet of the Day pics! If you need the code, I can send it to you! ;)

Kim, I understand that the "no right-click code" would help protect the pictures from illegal use, but how about those that want to save the picture of their own kitty with the CatoftheDay sign? I have my Juni's picture and I also have some of my favorite kitties on PT, he-he, of course, I am not using them for any other site or callendar :)

[moosmom]

quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

By no means are we leading anyone to believe these kittens are available for adoption or that they were kittens previously adopted through or organization.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bull!!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

NEVER before, prior to you has anyone ever thought the pictures were anything more than decoration.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Translation: Never before, prior to you has anyone ever CAUGHT us using the pictures for decoration.

Debbie,

Great catch!!!

I'd be furious if any one of MY cats were on there. Oh and, btw, their grammar sucks!!! The proper word is "stolen" not "stole". They sound like some backyard rescue organization to me. When they say they're kittens are "hand picked", they probably drive around the streets picking up other people's pets. I hope petfinder.com bans them. They certainly make the legitimate rescue orgs look bad.

[Samantha Puppy]

11/13/04, 7:40am, COTD pics still up...

Great job, Karen and T&P's mom.

[moosmom]

Sorry for the double post, but I just took a look at the "death row" babies they claim are up for adoption. SOME of the pictures look awfully suspicious to me. Especially the Maine Coons, of which they seem to have an abundance of. They look as though they've been taken by a professional photographer, which alot of breeders have done to advertise kittens for sale.

Another thing...these people claim to rescue these babies from "kill shelters". If they have already been rescued out of the shelters then WHY do they have THIS on each and every one of the kitten's links:

This baby is on DEATH ROW and doesn't deserve to die. This sweet baby may die never knowing love or safety. Can you open your heart and home and give this sweetie a second chance at love? PLEASE HURRY!
THIS BABY CAN BE EUTHANIZED ANY DAY!!
SAVE THIS LIFE!
PLEASE DON'T LET THIS SWEET BABY DIE.

I smell a rat here. I hope petfinder.com looks into this further.

I have also emailed them and told them I'm interested in adopting a kitten. I want to find out what (I think) their scam is. I'll let you know what I find out and how they respond.

[moosmom]

As of 8 a.m. this morning (Saturday) Peanut's pictures is gone but the rest of them are still there.

I sent them an email. Here's what I said:

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Hi!

My name is Donna Ploss and I was searching your website looking for a cat. I recently lost my siamese mix to old age and was wondering if that beautiful blue eyed siamese on the ladder on your web page is still available. I have a special place in my heartfor siamese cats and would love to give this one a great home. I'd prefer to give an older cat a home since the kittens seem to be placed very quickly.

I live in Ecorse, Michigan and figured since you do transporting, this wouldn't be a problem.

Please contact me at [email protected] to give me all the details. My phone number is 313-388-1573.

Thanks for your help. Hope to hear from you soon!!

Donna
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I'll let you know what their response is.

[sirrahbed]

oh Debbie - I thought it was rather cute that they had Peanut on there at first - even though I DO agree this is wrong and they should have asked. What I feel terrible and angry about is that they would respond back to you by trying to make YOU feel guilty!!:( :o

If I saw one of my pets used this way, I believe I would act the same way. First I would feel flattered, but I would feel that I should write to them and chasten them for stealing. If I got that response that you did, I would just feel awful. They are an organization and that response was just rude and mean!!:mad:

[swimma253]

That is just awful! I would be so ticked off if they did that! :eek:

Just checked the site again.. and they only took down Peanut... and nobody else! :rolleyes:

[Kfamr]

A few of the pictures are different now.
Wonder where they stole them from?

[Kfamr]

I was wondering.. Maybe it's time for a new POTD, COTD, and DOTD sign/award?
One that can't as easily be photoshopped out?
Maybe something like this?

-shurgs- I dunno... just an idea ;)

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by moosmom
Sorry for the double post, but I just took a look at the "death row" babies they claim are up for adoption. SOME of the pictures look awfully suspicious to me. Especially the Maine Coons, of which they seem to have an abundance of. They look as though they've been taken by a professional photographer, which alot of breeders have done to advertise kittens for sale.

Another thing...these people claim to rescue these babies from "kill shelters". If they have already been rescued out of the shelters then WHY do they have THIS on each and every one of the kitten's links:

This baby is on DEATH ROW and doesn't deserve to die. This sweet baby may die never knowing love or safety. Can you open your heart and home and give this sweetie a second chance at love? PLEASE HURRY!
THIS BABY CAN BE EUTHANIZED ANY DAY!!
SAVE THIS LIFE!
PLEASE DON'T LET THIS SWEET BABY DIE.

I smell a rat here. I hope petfinder.com looks into this further.

I have also emailed them and told them I'm interested in adopting a kitten. I want to find out what (I think) their scam is. I'll let you know what I find out and how they respond.

I was looking at those same kittens and asking the same questions. As cute as those pictures are, why not use their own (if they are their own) and why does a rescue group have death row babues?!?

[sammy101]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I was wondering.. Maybe it's time for a new POTD, COTD, and DOTD sign/award?
One that can't as easily be photoshopped out?
Maybe something like this?

-shurgs- I dunno... just an idea ;)

oo Kay thats a wonderful idea!:) You should PM karen about it

[Karen]

Kay, anything like a "watermark" that can be added in can be taken out. And we never want to obscure the pets' beautiful photos!

[Kfamr]

I know, but it's a lot harder to do so.

[Jods]

The siamese kitty on the top is gone... and so is Peanut and a lot of the others.... I wonder where they got the new ones??? Probably a breeders site. They have a lot of pics of purebreds where's the needy cats????? :confused: This place is bonkers it just makes you wonder if they are doing it for a good cause. What shelter would say this cat is on death row save it now... thats ridiculous. They are just pleaing with people to take the cats not find them proper homes.It sounds like malarky to me,...

[Karen]

They've removed all but two of the pictures from CatoftheDay.com - the little "praying kitten," Pippin, and Frankie, the bengal. I just don't understand why they don't put real adoptable kitties' pictures up!

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

I replied back to them and basically said what Cincy's Mom said. Using their own words I told them I thought it was wrong that they felt that anything on the internet was free for their taking. And not to worry, I don't feel guilty at all - in other words, their tactics didn't work. ;)

Also, just so everybody knows, Peanut has received countless treats and endless skritchies in compensation.;)

[zippy-kat]

Originally posted by Cincy'sMom
I was looking at those same kittens and asking the same questions. As cute as those pictures are, why not use their own (if they are their own) and why does a rescue group have death row babues?!?

To play devil's advocate, some professional photographers donate their time/talent to shelters; I know there's one in NM that does.

Also, there's a bunny rescue in CA that posts pics of kill-shelter rabbits on their website, trying to move those babies ASAP.

But I *highly* doubt either of those situations are the case for this rescue.

I can't believe their response! :mad:

[Amber]

I might have an idea where those pictures came from.

I used to use Webshots (a picture desktop) and I always used cats pictures from their. Alot of those cat pictures look familiar to me.

Just an idea.


I think it's horrible they have to go, and use peoples pictures.

[guineapiglover4life]

Even if Karen decides to use a 'non-right click code', there are still other ways they can sneek to get them.

[dogs_4_me]

Originally posted by Amber
I might have an idea where those pictures came from.

I used to use Webshots (a picture desktop) and I always used cats pictures from their. Alot of those cat pictures look familiar to me.

Just an idea.


I think it's horrible they have to go, and use peoples pictures.

Yes, I think the orange kitty with the yarn is from webshots

[gini]

I think Frankie and Pippin are still on their site.

[carole]

I too was appalled by their response, what a cheek, no-one would have minded in the least to have their cat on their site, if they had the simple courtesy just to ask, that I am sure of.

However I think suing them would not be a great idea, mainly because if by some chance this is a genuine rescue, then what would be achieved here, but like Donna I smell a rat too.

I just wonder what would be their pay off here (as Dr Phil says lol),by doing this.

It would indeed by nice to get to the bottom of it all, and just see what they are playing at, a normal rescue would use their own cats pics, not steal them, very odd indeed, and suspicious.

[CamCamPup33]

:eek: The nerve of some people.

I also wonder why they can't use the cats/kittens from THEIR shelter to take pictures of?

Hmm.

[QueenScoopalot]

I don't think suing is the way to go, as rescues are terribly underfunded as it is! If we all bombard them with emails asking to adopt particular COTD cats featured there, I wonder if that would change things? It all smells fishy to me though. As pointed out, many of the kittens are purebreds (which makes me think 'kitten mills') and as also pointed out, professionaly photographed. Hmmmm. :confused:

[Randy_K]

Having routinely taken pictures of kittens and cats for a local rescue group here in Los Angeles that have available for adoption I can tell you that it's hard to get a good photo. You don't live with these cats and don't have a lot of great photo ops. We try hard to get a cute photo for the web site so they will get adopted sooner rather than later. No snarling or grumpy looks!

I noticed that the site doesn't say the cats pictured are of any relation to the organization and link to the available cats page. Maybe they just want to show what a happy, well loved cat looks like? Their cause is good so I'd be inclined to cut them some slack. If they were using the picture for some commercial deal I'd hammer them!

The COTD picture of Peanut is terrific! She's quite beautiful.

[green_chameleon_girl]

I just finished reading threw this thread and I looked at the website. There are still COTD pics there but what made me more upset was this:

http://members.petfinder.org/~NY413/pets.html

LAST CHANCE KITTENS!? :mad: :eek: :(

quote: Time is almost up for each kitten on this page. Every kitten on this page is scheduled to die on or before Wednesday - November 17, 2004 if not rescued before that date.

Thats disgusting!! Why cant they just be put with the other kittens and cats. Isent November 17 2004 THIS wednestday:( I think everything deserves a chance at life why cant a little kitten have a full life?

[Randy_K]

If the kitten is in control of the local animal shelter the shelter sets the rules. We have that problem here in Los Angeles. The shelters don't keep animals longer than 72 hours and then put them down. They will not turn a cat or dog over to a rescue group either so it's up to rescue groups to find a home for the animal while being under the gun on time. It is disgusting and sad but it's the way it is until each city with this kind of animal services finds a mayor without a heart of stone.

[Corinna]

Maybe they don't have a camera! I too think this wrong, they could atleast ask . I had a bad feeling about them when Kahio cross posted the transport. None of the times were filled. A rescue group with out any one volentering. Give me a breck. We see on here lots of them and usually only a couple spots needed becouse of the people in the group.
I too think petfinder needs to check out this group.

[Uabassoon]

Randy while I do agree with your point of view, I think they went about it the wrong way. They should have asked for permission first, even granting them that maybe they didn't think it was such a big deal they could have been nicer about the whole situation. Karen and T&P sent them polite emails asking that they remove the photos, and they were very rude in return. When you do something wrong, you apologize. It's a simple concept, intead they were acting as if people should be ashamed for being upset over stolen photos. I've seen other rescue sites that don't have cameras and they will say something along the lines of "the kitten looks very similar to the one in the picture"

[molucass]

It may just be my computer.... but, on mine I am still seeing all the pics that were on there to begin with.

[Randy_K]

Try refreshing the page by pressing the Refresh button. You may be seeing what your browser has stored off line.

There's a belief held by some that if a picture is on the Internet it's fair game for use in any way. I know someone who found some of his pictures published in a book. The author claimed they were not stolen but the author's own pictures. The problem was that the real owner of the pictures was in some of those pictures. Also there is a fair use policy covering academic applications although that is frequently abused by using the pictures online rather than in a teaching environment.

The developer of the website probably figured there's 20 million cats in the USA and what's the possibility of one cat's picture being found by the animal's owner. Evidently 100%

The rescue group should have asked permission even after the fact rather than being hostile. That shows no class at all!

[maerlyn]

Hi ~
I'm new here; I visited because a friend of mine comes here. With great interest, I've been reading the thread about the "stolen" pictures. I don't know if they were "stolen" - I'm not knowledgeable about such things - but I do see a lot of vindictiveness in *some* replies. Some, blessedly, have expressed reasonable opinions; someone explained *why* kittens on "death row" are pictured - because the shelter won't release the animals to a rescue until their time is up. Someone else explained about trying to get decent photos of the kittens. Now, this I do know: Barb does not get her kittens "off the street," as someone suggested. And there *are* people - plenty of them - who volunteer to do transports for her; I've done three myself, so I know whereof I speak. It's one of the most satisfying things I've ever done, and I look forward to helping again.

There was a very good reason why she was pleading for volunteers -and if you'd carefully read the entire email she sent out, you'd know that she usually deals with rescues from TN, WV, and VA - and has *no* contacts in the midwest, where these kittens are. Isn't that a logical reason for the plea?

I don't know the woman personally; I've never met her. But I do believe she's acting in the best interests of the kittens. If she had some nefarious purpose for wanting them - well, there are certainly easier ways to acquire them than to spend the time it takes to plan out a route & then beg for volunteers to help transport.

Should she have asked permission to use your photos? Frankly, I don't know. If her response was less than you desired, perhaps you should think of how she was put onto the defensive. And even if you think her use of your photos was wrong, and even if you dislike her response - can you not consider the great good she is doing & be a bit kind & compassionate? Do you know what strain she might be under? OK, it happened - but it's certainly not worth all the incriminations. Maybe she made a mistake; if so, it was an honest one. If none of you have ever made a mistake, then go ahead and cast your stones; otherwise, "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."

[Randy_K]

I know several people dedicated to cat rescue. They work long hours at no pay because of their dedication to these little beasts. One woman is fostering 10 adult cats in her one-bedroom apartment while trying to find other people who can foster more until homes can be found for them all. Regrettably, there's always more to rescue. And there's a lot of unrecoverable out-of-pocket costs involved in rescue too. Perhaps the use of the picture seemed too small an issue when taken in perspective.

If the picture of Peanut gets one single cat a new home then it's worth it!

[dogs_4_me]

Originally posted by Randy_K
One woman is fostering 10 adult cats in her one-bedroom apartment while trying to find other people who can foster more until homes can be found for them all.

I don't think having 10 cats in a small apartment is very fair to the cats.

[maerlyn]

Thank you, Randy; yours was one of the voices of reason that I mentioned. You make a great deal of sense.

[Randy_K]

Perhaps being on the street is better? As an alternative, Los Angeles city shelters only holds them for 72 hours and then kills them. Ten cats is her worst case but it is a temporary condition. There's a terrible shortage of people who will foster cats available for adoption so there's no quick solution.

A foundation run by Buddy Hackett's widow Sherry Hackett now called the Buddy Hackett Singita Animal Sanctuary (http://www.singita.org/) is building a care facility in Los Angeles to provide the foster care, medical care and the socializing kittens and puppies need in their own facility. It will help the rescuers some...

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by maerlyn
If her response was less than you desired, perhaps you should think of how she was put onto the defensive. And even if you think her use of your photos was wrong, and even if you dislike her response - can you not consider the great good she is doing & be a bit kind & compassionate? Do you know what strain she might be under? OK, it happened - but it's certainly not worth all the incriminations. Maybe she made a mistake; if so, it was an honest one. If none of you have ever made a mistake, then go ahead and cast your stones; otherwise, "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."

I have to agree. I am happy, Peanut's picture is down and that's what I had asked her to do. I was not thrilled with her response, but I can understand how she is possibly - and probably - under a lot of stress. If she is anything like the people on this site who do rescue - Kimlovescats, K & L, Queenscoopalot, and others - I can totally understand the stress she might be under. And to be honest, if I was in her position the status of a few pictures on the website would be the least of my problems.

However, she needs to know that just because things are on the internet that doesn't mean they're free for the taking of anyone who wants to use them. She made a mistake, but I hope she also learned something from it. I also hope that Karen gets a quick response and satisfaction on her requests also. Then we can all let this die down.

I was surprised to see Peanut's pic and I'm glad she took it down. Like I said before, I would have been more than happy to let her keep it up if she had just asked - or even had a more polite response to my request. However, it turns out it really wasn't up to me since it was a COTD picture, which by all rights belongs to Karen and the COTD site - not me.

I think Maeryln is right about some of the responses, and like I also said, I wouldn't even consider suing because first of all, they're a rescue and they have no money. Second of all, I would rather they spend what little money they have on the cats, not a law suit. And finally, because it was a COTD picture, I don't even think I would have the right to sue anymore since the pic was technically the property of Karen and COTD!

Some of the posts almost make it look like it's time to send this thread to the doghouse - and that was definitely NOT my original intention.

[guster girl]

I already mentioned for the most part how I felt about some of the accusations. As for her responses, she could have at least apologized when she was approached with her mistake. Again, I think accusing the shelter of being run by criminals is a bit harsh. I'm sure it was an honest mistake and that it wasn't done with malicious intent. I looked at the site and would never have thought those cats pictured were ones available for adoption, it looks like a border to me. I can see why she wouldn't have photos of her own cats or kittens on the site, they are hard to photograph. But, there are plenty of photos online that are available for public use. It's unfortunate that she responded the way she did, and, unfortunate the way some people retaliated. I would think she would just take them down to avoid getting any more emails, though. It's not like it would ruin her site to not have those photos. Just my opinion.

[green_chameleon_girl]

I admit I over reacted on the last chance kitten thing..but it upset me.

Sorry for over reacting!!:)

[QueenScoopalot]

I'm sure many of you have received the email with cute cat & kitten pictures, with inspirational sayings under them....Bendy's picture's been circualting a long time! I wanted to attach his owner's website here as well, but she's exceeded the bandwidth, and it's not available at this time....Bendy has radial hypoplasia like several of my gang, and Sasha put braces on his legs to correct the curvature. He was so cute someone stole his picture as well, and here it is...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/QueenScoopalot/Bendy.jpg

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

OMG, QSA!!! Bendy is the most adorable little kitty! I can see why they would want to use his pic, but I still don't think it's right. I've seen quite a few of those inspirational type emails, but I haven't come across one with Bendy in it. Just look at that little fuzz face! You don't happen to have a current picture of him, do you? I'm sure he's much bigger now, but probably no less adorable. :D

[QueenScoopalot]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
OMG, QSA!!! Bendy is the most adorable little kitty! I can see why they would want to use his pic, but I still don't think it's right. I've seen quite a few of those inspirational type emails, but I haven't come across one with Bendy in it. Just look at that little fuzz face! You don't happen to have a current picture of him, do you? I'm sure he's much bigger now, but probably no less adorable. :D
I don't have any current pictures of him. He isn't one of the kitties here, and I tried to add the link for Bendy's website here, but it's exceeeded the bandwidth capacity. :eek: He is huge, and handsome now!

[smokey the elder]

Just today I got an email with a pic of a lady holding an enormous cat, and admonished the sender that he shouldn't be propagating such things without permission! I won't even use someone's pic as a desktop without PMing them and asking permission.

Something about that shelter just doesn't pass the smell test, but I can't put my finger on it. Don't they even have ONE good photographer? My tiny group has at least half a dozen people who can take pics good enough to display the cats and kittens on the Internet.

[Rachel]

If I were looking at any rescue website, I would assume the pictures posted were those of cats up for adoption or at the very least cats who had been adopted through that organization unless it was explicitly stated otherwise. Trust is an important aspect when one is operating any charitable organization. It seems that the operators of this one have yet to understand that.
If one cannot trust the veracity of what is portrayed, what else can't be trusted.

In the same vein, I do not feel it is right to approach an organization on the subterfuge that one is considering adopting one of their animals. Although the purpose is investigative, in this instance there was no need to investigate. We already know what had been done.

Doing good in one respect does not confer the right to commit other acts which are not of common decency or are against the law. If this person were genuinely not aware that she was doing something which was inappropriate, she should have welcomed being informed of that, taken corrective action, and apologized.
Hopefully it is not too late for her to learn and grow so the work of her organization can thrive instead of being seen as one of which to be wary.