How Arrogant!

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Ok, I know I'm going to get bashed for this because there are just way too many Bush supporters here, but this just galls me to no end. And you all know I normally don't get into these political discussions, but I just can't help it this time.

I've always thought Bush was arrogant. When you hear people overseas describing the "arrogant Americans" I think Bush is the epitome of that expression. And last night was no exception, and, as a matter of fact, he really just went overboard with it.

I'm talking about when he invited the press into the White House - for what, to watch him gloat and prance around and preen in front of the cameras. "I know I'm going to win." Well, how arrogant can you get? No wonder the rest of the world hates us when this is how we are represented....:(

A little modesty never hurt anyone.

[aly]

I got upset when he did that too. I was trying to eat at the time and wanted to vomit my food on him!

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by aly
I got upset when he did that too. I was trying to eat at the time and wanted to vomit my food on him!

I know what you mean Aly. He's just so smug he makes me sick!

[Miranda_Rae]

I am a Bush supporter, and I must say that he does get arrogant, but doesn't Kerry too? Kerry isn't all modesty either. :o But I always thought that there were more Kerry supporters than Bush supporters here. :confused: Maybe I am wrong. :rolleyes:

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by Miranda_Rae
I am a Bush supporter, and I must say that he does get arrogant, but doesn't Kerry too? Kerry isn't all modesty either. :o But I always thought that there were more Kerry supporters than Bush supporters here. :confused: Maybe I am wrong. :rolleyes:

According to the poll taken in General, yes there are more Kerry supporters here. But what I said is that there are way too many Bush supporters here, not that there are more Bush supporters than Kerry supporters. ;)

[Samantha Puppy]

And if he said, "I'm not really too sure, I think Senator Kerry may win", you would be making fun of him for being a weak leader and who would want someone as President who isn't even confident in himself.

Don't you think you guys are going just a touch overboard? Sure, I'm a Bush supporter but when I heard John Edwards say last night, "We've waited a long time for this victory, we can wait one more night" I sure didn't think he was being arrogant. I thought he was acting like a normal political figure running for office.

[aly]

Originally posted by Miranda_Rae
I am a Bush supporter, and I must say that he does get arrogant, but doesn't Kerry too? Kerry isn't all modesty either. :o But I always thought that there were more Kerry supporters than Bush supporters here. :confused: Maybe I am wrong. :rolleyes:

It seemed like it before, but now Bush supporters are coming out of the woodwork to comment. I'm not sure why they've waited :confused: Although most of the polls on this site did have more people voting for Kerry. Who knows!

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by Samantha Puppy
And if he said, "I'm not really too sure, I think Senator Kerry may win",

Actually, it's not what he said. It's the fact that he invited the press in, which is highly unprecedented (sp?). Ok guys, come on in so you can watch me gloat.

[Corinna]

I'm not say who I voted for but confidence some times gets confused with arriogant. I gave up watching ads and debates I got in to the voting records of both and made my decision based on the record not mouthing or media.

[BCBlondie]

Omg.. Bush IS arrogant lol. :rolleyes: I totally agree with you and Aly. He only does things in HIS own interest, it seems to me a lot of times. -.-'
*sighs*
About half of the American population, as well as many OTHER countries, are very scared right now... :(

[aly]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
Actually, it's not what he said. It's the fact that he invited the press in, which is highly unprecedented (sp?). Ok guys, come on in so you can watch me gloat.

EXACTLY. I have no problem with him going around saying he's going to win. But he did something so stupid that is completely unprecedented. Even the reporters were surprised and didn't quite know what was going on!

[Samantha Puppy]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
Actually, it's not what he said. It's the fact that he invited the press in, which is highly unprecedented (sp?). Ok guys, come on in so you can watch me gloat. Okay, but I still don't get it. If Clinton had invited the press in during his second-term election night, I wouldn't have cared. I totally know how it feels to have someone in office that you abhor, but it just looks to me that some Kerry supporters on here are reeeeeeeeeeaching for more things to hate about him and it's coming off as a little junior-high-catty-girlish. Sorry.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Ok everybody, I know I started this thread, but I have to get to work, and thinking about all this just gets me sooo aggrivated, so I'm going to return to my usual MO of staying out of all the political debates here. You now know my opinions - and frankly, who cares, because that's all they are is my opinions. So continue on with the thread if you want, but more than likely I will refrain from posting anymore.

Corinna, good for you! I wish more people would do the same instead of listening to all the rhetoric. :)

[jazzzytina]

Tubby & Peanut's Mom, I am in complete agreement with you. Humility is a quality he seriously needs to develop ESPECIALLY as a Christian.

[Randi]

Well said, Debbie!

I think people across the world can see what kind of a person he is .... and it seems, about half the Americans. ;) How sad that he's in charge for the next 4 years! :(

[tatsxxx11]

Deb, I remember him doing the same thing in 2000, inviting the press in to tape he and his father and family watching the results come in, all the time claiming certain victory long before the polls closed! And we all know what happened once the polls closed:eek: Funny how this Pres. prefers to shun the press (when was his last formal scheduled news conference?) most other times! That's one thing that really bothers me, that he doesn't answer to the people and gets offended when the press dares to question him. Isn't that what a democracy is all about? And that goes for all presidents, be they Democrat or Republican. This is not a monarchy; the President answers to the people and I have a lot of questions.

And it didn't take long for the conservative pundits to start "uniting" us. One partisan show was blasting, "We Are the Champions" while another was claiming, "We whooped their socialist, panty wearing asses." Not good!

[Maresche]

The incident last night with Bush and the press didn't repulse me that much. I mean, it is Bush, the same man who flew in on a military plane wearing a flight suit under the banner Mission Accomplished. To me, that "event" was far more arrogant.

Last night just proved to me that he has no tact.

[PJ's Mom]

He has every reason to be cocky and arrogant. He's (pretty much) won this election. He can't run again, therefore he's really got no one left to please. The way he figures it, what has he got to lose? :eek:

[Miranda_Rae]

Originally posted by aly
It seemed like it before, but now Bush supporters are coming out of the woodwork to comment. I'm not sure why they've waited :confused: Although most of the polls on this site did have more people voting for Kerry. Who knows!

I try my hardest to stay out of political and religious threads, but when I think when it comes down to it, at the very end, maybe people want to comment on it, just to let people know that they are for Bush, without trying to get involved in some discussion weeks ahead of the election? I don't know either. :confused: Sure there are things that REALLY tick me off in some of those political and religious threads, but I prefer to stay out of them for personal reasons (I don't want to cause myself a lot of stress-which it would do because i stress and worry easily :o), and because I don't want to get involved in an arguement and make enemies. :)

[Lady's Human]

Actually it is fairly common for the press to be allowed access to the areas where the candidates are waiting for the returns. Arrogance was John Edwards' speech this morning, which was basically a redux of Gore's un-concession speech in 2000

[tatsxxx11]

After the great upheaval of 2000 with so many voters feeling rightly or wrongly disenfranchised, that their vote was not counted, didn't count, I think this was the absolute correct thing for Edwards to do. There were a large number of yet uncounted votes in Ohio and I'm sure were the tables turned, were there a hundred thousand plus yet uncounted absentee ballots, military votes, Andrew Card would have done the exact same thing, as he should. It's sad that it's all come down to this. If you live in any of 35 states and you want to bother to go vote, go ahead. But there is no doubt that an election victory falls to the decision made by only a handle of states, 15. I'm tired of hearing for two elections now, that "it all comes down to PA, Fla. and Ohio." That's been the mantra for months now. Neither candidate even bothered to stump in either my home state or where I currently reside. They have to revamp the electoral college, IMHO

[christa]

Originally posted by Lady's Human
Actually it is fairly common for the press to be allowed access to the areas where the candidates are waiting for the returns. Arrogance was John Edwards' speech this morning, which was basically a redux of Gore's un-concession speech in 2000

I'm in complete agreement with you, Lady's Human.



You all are just looking for things to complain about now.

Kerry didn't invite the press in because he didn't want us to see him crying. Same with Gore.

I'm glad that Kerry is conceding today . . . it will be the best thing for our country to not drag this out for 2 more weeks.

[Maresche]

I agree that conceding is for the best short term. The country can begin to accept the harsh reality sooner.

For what it is worth, I'd much rather hear someone complain than someone gloat.

[BCBlondie]

Originally posted by christa

You all are just looking for things to complain about now.

I am not complaining - I'm SCARED!

[aly]

Originally posted by Miranda_Rae
Sure there are things that REALLY tick me off in some of those political and religious threads, but I prefer to stay out of them for personal reasons (I don't want to cause myself a lot of stress-which it would do because i stress and worry easily :o), and because I don't want to get involved in an arguement and make enemies. :)

Thats very smart of you. I'm the same way, but I haven't been able to keep away from them lately :eek: Now I'm very stressed and upset! :)

[tatsxxx11]

You're absolutely right Maresche. We need to move on and each of us, in our own way, work to support and promote those issues we feel to be important. As for the above remark, trivializing the saliency of post electon debate and discussion...

You all are just looking for things to complain about now

Ever go to a movie you were excited about seeing, only to find out after an emotional 2hrs, your "date" has no comment?:D Let everyone express their feelings; it's only through discussion that we learn and heal.

[RedHedd]

Originally posted by BCBlondie
I'm SCARED! Me too! Four more years of that idiot dry drunk in the Whitehouse? Heaven help us!

[christa]

BCBlondie: I'm sorry . . . Personally, if the tables had been turned, I would be terrifed right now. So I *kinda* know what you're feeling. I wish I could console those of you that are upset/scared right now. I just don't know what I could say . . .

[christa]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
Let everyone express their feelings;

So I'm allowed to gloat? LOL Not likely . . . gloating on this board is bad news! I know better. ;)

[Maresche]

Originally posted by christa
So I'm allowed to gloat? LOL Not likely . . . gloating on this board is bad news! I know better. ;)

You wouldn't be the only republican who is and honestly, I can't say that I wouldn't be gloating if Kerry won.

[tatsxxx11]

Gloating can be good:D

[Lady's Human]

With all the constitutional checks and balances in place the President cannot do much unilaterally. It's irrational to fear the actions of the resident in the oval office, unless we somehow managed to elect a sociopath who would then have the nuke codes.

The House and Senate in reality have far more power then the President in day to day matters, and local legislatures have a far greater effect on your day to day life than anythign that Washington does.

[dukedogsmom]

Talk to us in a year or so and we'll try to answer your question of why you ever voted him back in in the first place. And one vote doesn't count, if it's not an electoral vote. I don't understand the reasoning behind that. What good does it do to go out and vote if it's not going to count anyway?

[tatsxxx11]

Right LH, but unlike during the Clinton years where we had a democratic executive branch and republican legislature, we now have a party that rules over both branches (more so as of today re: the Congress) and a Supreme Court that at best is split 5-4 conservative to liberal, with undoubtedly, several new appointments to be made over the next 4 years. That sort of unbalanced system of "checks and balances" concerns me. As well the federal judiciary (exec. appointed with Congressional approval) is currently strongly tipped in the conservative court. And I wouldn't wish for the same scenario, should the party tables be turned.

[micki76]

Originally posted by Miranda_Rae
I try my hardest to stay out of political and religious threads, but when I think when it comes down to it, at the very end, maybe people want to comment on it, just to let people know that they are for Bush, without trying to get involved in some discussion weeks ahead of the election? I don't know either. :confused: Sure there are things that REALLY tick me off in some of those political and religious threads, but I prefer to stay out of them for personal reasons (I don't want to cause myself a lot of stress-which it would do because i stress and worry easily :o), and because I don't want to get involved in an arguement and make enemies. :)

I agree with you Miranda. I've refrained from commenting, and even reading a lot of the political threads up til now. It's been a very confusing time for me, and I didn't even think I would vote. I did a lot of research in the last few days like Corinna, and felt comfortable enough to finally cast my vote.

Am I a Bush supporter? No. Am I a Kerry supporter? No. I did vote, but it was based on a lot more than arrogance or religious beliefs. I went more with each candidates record and what I wanted accomplished in America in the next four years.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Maresche


For what it is worth, I'd much rather hear someone complain than someone gloat.

I hear you!!


One of the neighbors had a gloat in their backyard.

It was a cute one, Black and white and little horns.

They only problem was mmmmmaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh, mmmmmmmaaaaaahhhhhhh---- all day long.

They finally rehomed it when some neighbors complained, it was sad to see the kids crying on the day he left.



:(

[Miranda_Rae]

Originally posted by RICHARD
I hear you!!


One of the neighbors had a gloat in their backyard.

I was a cute one, Black and white and little horns.

They only problem was mmmmmaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh, mmmmmmmaaaaaahhhhhhh---- all day long.

They finally rehomed it when some neighbors complained, it was sad to see the kids crying on the day he left.



:(

LOL.....you are pathetic. :p :rolleyes: :D

[tatsxxx11]

I agree...just pathetic!:D :p

[K9soul]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
Right LH, but unlike during the Clinton years where we had a democratic executive branch and republican legislature, we now have a party that rules over both branches (more so as of today re: the Congress) and a Supreme Court that at best is split 5-4 conservative to liberal, with undoubtedly, several new appointments to be made over the next 4 years. That sort of unbalanced system of "checks and balances" concerns me. As well the federal judiciary (exec. appointed with Congressional approval) is currently strongly tipped in the conservative court. And I wouldn't wish for the same scenario, should the party tables be turned.

I pretty much decided I'd completely not get involved in political threads but after reading this.. I'm gonna stick my nose out there enough to say this is exactly what concerns me the most and what would concern me were the situation reversed as well.

[Maresche]

Originally posted by K9soul
I pretty much decided I'd completely not get involved in political threads but after reading this.. I'm gonna stick my nose out there enough to say this is exactly what concerns me the most and what would concern me were the situation reversed as well.

Get the email addy's, snail mail addy's and phone numbers for your Congressional reps (senator and representatives) and keep an eye on the news. This will be a big deal when it happens and when it does, let your reps know whether you like or dislike the nominee and exactly what'll happen to their job if they don't listen to their constituents--they'll be out of a job come re-election.

Then follow thru if they don't listen.

Just because Bush has won the presidency doesn't mean he can do whatever he wants, same with Congress. It is time to remind them of that....

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Miranda_Rae
LOL.....you are pathetic. :p :rolleyes: :D


Oh, gang up on me because I wasn't wearing my glasses!!!!!


As Emily Litella would say, "Never mind.."


:D

[Logan]

I didn't see the "arrogant" actions of our President last night. I did hear that he was allowing a few press members up to the residence, but I had to leave for a football game and didn't see it, nor did I see it repeated as I watched later in the evening. So I can't comment. I have not seen arrogance in President Bush, though (ok, I know my rivals are laughing at that comment), but I truly haven't. I have seen confidence and a human side that is sentimental and caring. I hope he can take the next four years and really concentrate on issues now, rather than having to worry about an election.

Just a little while ago when I took Helen to the orthodontist, she was very interested in listening to the radio (talk radio, which is usually changed quickly by her). She asked me, "what would happen if one day there were no parties, just one?" (she actually asked me what would happen if one day there were no Democrats). I told her it would be a much more united and strong country if everyone could be supportive and that the party in charge could embrace ALL Americans, or it could mean that the public had been "shushed" and we were in a communist society, rather than a democratic one. She and I prefer the first idea. I just wonder what our children think after watching all of this closely and seeing the mud slinging that goes back and forth. I have tried to remain very open minded and non-confrontational here on Pet Talk, which is the only forum I visit that has even ventured off into political discussions. I'm not 100% Republican, nor am I liberal either. I just tried to make an informed decision in my voting, based on the candidate who most embraced the values I hold as important. I got "lucky" this time. Every candidate that I voted for yesterday won.

Logan

[tatsxxx11]

Get the email addy's, snail mail addy's and phone numbers for your Congressional reps (senator and representatives) and keep an eye on the news. This will be a big deal when it happens and when it does, let your reps know whether you like or dislike the nominee and exactly what'll happen to their job if they don't listen to their constituents--they'll be out of a job come re-election.

In my case, that would be Sen. John Kerry!:eek:

"Senator Kerry, you need to go back and undo what you just let happen!":D

[Logan]

Sandra, does he get to go back to his Senate seat now? I was thinking about that earlier and wondering if he could reclaim it after campaigning all this time, or did he have to resign it? I know that Jim DeMint, who was in the US House of Representatives (SC) had to resign before he could run for the Senate? Do you know the answer? And when does Kerry's Senate term end?

Logan

[aly]

Originally posted by Logan
does he get to go back to his Senate seat now? I was thinking about that earlier and wondering if he could reclaim it after campaigning all this time, or did he have to resign it?

Logan

He still has his seat, but I'm not sure when the term ends.

People were saying he is conceding so early so he won't look bad since he is still holding his seat.

[tatsxxx11]

Hi Logan! Congratulations:) As Aly has said, yes, he's still a Senator (didn't resign his seat when ran, whick irked a lots of MA residents) and will resume that role...tomorrow?;) I believe his term ends in another 4 years!

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
Actually, it's not what he said. It's the fact that he invited the press in, which is highly unprecedented (sp?). Ok guys, come on in so you can watch me gloat. *crawls out of the woodwork!*
He invited them BEFORE they had any idea he would win. For all he knew, they would be there to see him lose!

I will now crawl back into the woodwork!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aly]

Originally posted by momoffuzzyfaces

He invited them BEFORE they had any idea he woudl win. For all he knew, they would be there to see him lose!


I sorta thought it would be funny if he didn't win and realized it right there on camera, teehee ;)

[Logan]

Originally posted by aly
I sorta thought it would be funny if he didn't win and realized it right there on camera, teehee ;)

ALY!!!!!!! Shame on you!!!! ;)

[BCBlondie]

Originally posted by aly
I sorta thought it would be funny if he didn't win and realized it right there on camera, teehee ;)
ROFLOL!!!!! :D

[momoffuzzyfaces]

By the way, unless Ted Kopel made a career change, Kerry had "press" with him too!!!!!!:rolleyes:

[RedHedd]

Originally posted by aly
I sorta thought it would be funny if he didn't win and realized it right there on camera, teehee ;) and then we'd see his "weasel in the headlights" look :rolleyes: :p

[cali]

lol now I just wish Canada could vote on the US elections! lol they way Kerry would have won by a landslide(only 9.1% of canadians support Bush compared to 74.something% for Kerry lol) I too am not looking forward to another 4 years with this idiot.

[christa]

Originally posted by momoffuzzyfaces
By the way, unless Ted Kopel made a career change, Kerry had "press" with him too!!!!!!:rolleyes:

Oh really? Hmm . . .

[popcornbird]

I've always thought of Bush as a very arrogant person. You can just see the arrogance on his face. I'm listening to him right now and he has arrogance in his tone.

BCBlondie, I'm with you. I'm not complaining either....I'M SCARED.

:p

Oh well.....I'll just put my trust in God and hope for the best. Maybe this is a test for all of us. ;)

[aly]

Originally posted by Logan
ALY!!!!!!! Shame on you!!!! ;)

I'm sorry :o I really am bad and grumpy today.

I don't mean it in a mean-spirited way though, just a humorous, funny kinda way! Ok, I'll be good now!

[Logan]

Originally posted by aly
I'm sorry :o I really am bad and grumpy today.

I don't mean it in a mean-spirited way though, just a humorous, funny kinda way! Ok, I'll be good now!

That's why I winked at you! I knew exactly how you were feeling and I knew you were being funny!!! :)

[aly]

Originally posted by Logan
That's why I winked at you! I knew exactly how you were feeling and I knew you were being funny!!! :)

Thanks :D You, Pam, and Sandra were some of the first people I met at PT and so I look up to you as my "PT moms" and I don't want to get you guys mad at me or get grounded!! ;)

[Logan]

I'm listening to him right now and he has arrogance in his tone.

We were obviously not listening to the same speech. :confused: He was appreciative and short in his words. I am surprised that you found that to be arrogant!

I agree to disagree, and I'll try to stay out of this discussion, going forward.

[tatsxxx11]

What do you think Logan??? Do we ground her???;) Aly, we love ya:)

[Logan]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
What do you think Logan??? Do we ground her???;) Aly, we love ya:)

Aly, you're grounded for the day!!! :D I think you are probably glad to be grounded so you don't feel compelled to say anything else!!! Hehehe!!!! ;)

I'd love you more if you'd come get this precious birdie from me!!!! ;) She/he needs to go home to an "only" bird home!!!!

Logan

[Pam]

Originally posted by aly
Thanks :D You, Pam, and Sandra were some of the first people I met at PT and so I look up to you as my "PT moms" and I don't want to get you guys mad at me or get grounded!! ;)

Thanks Aly. You know I consider you a friend as well and have for many years now. :) I really wish we could get the focus off politics now that the election is over. It has dragged the boards down quite a bit.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by Pam
I really wish we could get the focus off politics now that the election is over. It has dragged the boards down quite a bit.

Good idea. So might I make a suggestion that everyone go to your respective Dog, Cat, Pet page and post a pic of your sweeties and tell us all about something cute, silly, naw-tee they did recently. Whaddya think? :)

[aly]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
Good idea. So might I make a suggestion that everyone go to your respective Dog, Cat, Pet page and post a pic of your sweeties and tell us all about something cute, silly, naw-tee they did recently. Whaddya think? :)

I will when I get un-grounded!!!! :p

*HUGS* to all. No hard feelings. Now that Bush is officially President, I'm not going to publicly bash him (I will in private though! ). I'm just hoping and praying for what is best for OUR country :)

[micki76]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
Good idea. So might I make a suggestion that everyone go to your respective Dog, Cat, Pet page and post a pic of your sweeties and tell us all about something cute, silly, naw-tee they did recently. Whaddya think? :)

Yeah, I think I was promised some Cinny videos! Alyson, can we see the vids now? She would really help cheer some people up! :D

[Logan]

Originally posted by aly
I will when I get un-grounded!!!! :p

*HUGS* to all. No hard feelings. Now that Bush is officially President, I'm not going to publicly bash him (I will in private though! ). I'm just hoping and praying for what is best for OUR country :)

Get clicking, girl! There are bird and dog pictures, posted by me! If the cats weren't hiding from me, I'd add some of them too!!! :D

[carole]

I think its great we can all come here and share our views on politics, even me on the other side of the world, giving my opinions, and I am glad no-one has said,'What does it matter to you" because it sure does.

For me it has been interesting reading all your threads, learning more about each candidate and how the American people view them, thank you for letting me be part of that.

As for Bush and his media antics, well I guess there is nothing like having confidence in yourself and your party,so I cannot berate him for that, I guess for some it is seen as arrogance and for others as I have mentioned above.

Let us all hope Bush does well for the American people and the rest of the world,but I am not holding my breath..

[dukedogsmom]

This is a funny site. www.marryanamerican.ca

[carole]

Ha Ha that is so funny...I would sign up but hubby might get a bit ticked off lol.:)

[QueenScoopalot]

All i can say is "pray for whirled peas"...nuff said.

[carole]

QSA what on earth does that saying mean, is it American humour? prey tell me, I am curious? lol.:) ;)

[Karen]

Psst, carole - read this aloud quickly:

Pray for whirled peas



get it yet?





(pray for world peace)

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by QueenScoopalot
All i can say is "pray for whirled peas"...nuff said.

I'll be praying for 'whirled peas' too. :D

[carole]

Aww I get it, that is so cute, I thought maybe it was an american saying , but it is so simple.

[anna_66]

Ok, I've read every page here and I have a question (even though I know everyone has promised to go about their business and post some pics of their little sweeties!).

I agree with DDM when she says:

What good does it do to go out and vote if it's not going to count anyway?

This year was my first year voting and for the life of me I can't seem to understand how without all the votes from all the states in how we can say who is president now:confused:

Would anyone care to inform me how exactly the electorial votes work?

Oh, and I wanted to add this:
No, I didn't vote for Bush and I agree with Aly when she said:

Now that Bush is officially President, I'm not going to publicly bash him. I'm just hoping and praying for what is best for OUR country

[Kfamr]

Mmm.... Peas sound good right now.

[micki76]

Originally posted by anna_66
Would anyone care to inform me how exactly the electorial votes work?

This (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/special/president/electoral.college/more.html) should explain it pretty thoroughly. I found it when I was needing a refresher myself! :)

[anna_66]

Hey! Thanks Micki:D

[heinz57_79]

Of COURSE he KNEW he was going to win. He KNEW he was going to win in 00 too. :rolleyes:

Just keep telling yourselves, only 4 more years... just hope that whoever come in in 08 (GO HILARY!) can fix this country.

[Logan]

Originally posted by heinz57_79
Of COURSE he KNEW he was going to win. He KNEW he was going to win in 00 too. :rolleyes:

Just keep telling yourselves, only 4 more years... just hope that whoever come in in 08 (GO HILARY!) can fix this country.

Oh, Good Grief! What are you talking about when you say "he KNEW"???? How could anyone know??? He won the popular vote, for goodness sake, which did NOT happen in 2000. It just amazes me how some people want to try and ridicule the election results when it was so evident what the majority voted for!

[Maresche]

Who wins the majority vote doesn't matter.

Bush won the electoral college and Kerry conceded. So whether we like it or not, Bush won the election.

[Logan]

Am I wrong? Did he not win the popular vote by 3.5 Million votes in addition to the Electoral College?????

[Maresche]

Yes, Bush did. I'm just saying in regards to who wins a presidential election, winning the majority vote doesn't matter.

I loathe to bring it up for fear of being accused of "not letting go" but Gore won the majority vote in 2000, but he did not win the electoral college so he did not win the election.

It is difficult to do one without the other but it is possible.

[lizzielou742]

There are plenty of Internet rumors flying about who won the election. The main source is Greg Palast, who of course did the documentary "Bush Family Fortunes," and is a liberal. So, his opinions may not be considered anything more than opinions by most. All that matters in reality is that Kerry conceded, and Bush has won. Now we just have to move forward.

Anyway here is a link so you all can see what I am referring to.

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won_.php

[leslie]

is anyone at all concerned about the environment? Bush wants to drill Alaska even though he's been told the amount of oil there is miniscuele (sp) and not worthy of drilling. And it disrupts the natural flights and landings of flocks of geese that have been using a particular part of the land (that he wants to tear down) for god knows how many hundreds of years...
He has undone many if not all of the bills that Clinton put into place for a better environment. Houston now has worse pollution than Los Angeles. (from lifting regulations- NICE move)

[Lady's Human]

The amount of oil in ANWAR is far from miniscule, and with modern drilling techniques drilling can be done with minimum environmental inpact.
As far as the air in houston goes, anyone who's ever been there can vouch for the fact that it has never been a garden spot, and then governor bush was extremely limited in how he could impact it. A Governor CANNOT ignore federal law.

[KYS]

As for ANWAR their are two arguments pro and con,
just depends on which side you want to believe or
are their alternatives.

UCdavis. articles:
http://www-geology.ucdavis.edu/~GEL1/w01_z/ANWRdiscussion.html

[Lady's Human]

Of course there are alternatives to increased drilling, especially considering that developing ANWR would be about a 10 year project. One major problem with alternative energy sources, however, is that the same environmental groups that are screaming about drilling in ANWR are at the same time suing to stop the CA wind farms, trying to stop a wind farm in Nantucket sound, stopping development on safer nuclear plants, etc.

There are alternatives, however we aren't being allowed to explore those either.

[KYS]

I am willing to help for an alternative.
Even though it's only a dent..

(no more gas gozzlers for me)
Even if it cost a little more my next car will be a hybrid. :)

P.S. I realize this is a change of subject, but that is
one thing that makes me :mad:
Their are alternatives to many of our problems.
(such as alternatives to the energy and drought
problems in CA.)
But powerful lobbyists get in the way when it comes
to the almighty $$$ and we the the people want
our comforts even though it might not be the best
for the enviroment.
JMHO

[tatsxxx11]

In realtive terms, yes Anwar's oil reserve is miniscule. The US contains less than 3% of the world's total oil reserve, while at the same time being the world's greatest consumer. As long as we are dependent on oil, we will continue be held hostage by OPEC and the middle east oil producing nations. The most optimistic estimates target Anwar's total reserve at providing perhaps, 6 months to 1 year's worth of energy with the country running at full capacity. Most of Alaska's north slope has already been set aside for oil development as it is and oil from ANWAR's coastal plain will do little to reduce the U.S. need for oil from other countries. We cannot drill our way out of the energy canundrum.

It's sad to see how the "environmental movement" has become foder for jokes by such notable, enlightened conservative commentators such as Rush Limbaugh, who is quick to label us as "environmental whackos." (Apparently the earth is totally self sustaining, according to Mr. Limbaugh, no matter how great our pillaging, plundering and polluting.) No Mr. Limbaugh, I am not a tree hugging, granola eating, sandal wearing nut. I care about the air that I breathe, the water that I drink and the land I love.

In fact, the father of the environmental movement, the nation's first notable conservationist, was also one of our greatest presidents, the progressive Republican Teddy Roosevelt.

In his seven years as President, Teddy Roosevelt increased the national forests by 148 million acres, added five national parks, 1.4 million acres of national monuments, 400,000 acres of wildlife refuges, and 1.5 million acres of land reclaimed by irrigation. The amount of land protected by Roosevelt's conservationist work is close to the size of Texas--more than 151 million acres.


Even before becoming President, as Gov. of NY, his efforts at protecting and conserving our wildlife and undeveloped land, was without precedence.


"In the 1890s, public confidence in the state’s forest commission and its attitude toward conservation was particularly low. Laws were circumvented and land set aside in the Catskills and Adirondacks as forest preserve was being sold to private developers. In 1894, the Legislature enacted the "forever wild" clause in the state constitution and the efforts of Governor Roosevelt, including his reform of the Forest, Fish and Game Commission, began meaningful change.

In addition to strengthening the forest commission, Governor Roosevelt won approval of environmental reforms including preserving the Palisades against development, preventing the dumping of sawmill waste into streams of the Adirondacks and Catskills. He was vehement about concerns for pollution of the state’s waterways, many of which had become, in his words, "little more than open sewers." In this regard, he issued an order prohibiting the discharge of untreated sewage, domestic waste or manufacturing refuse into Saratoga Lake or its tributaries which flowed into the Hudson River because of potential affect on drinking water. He also ordered the Saratoga Springs and Ballston Spa to install sewage treatment facilities and forced tanneries and pulp mills in the area to treat their waste before discharging them into the waters."

The environmental movement was apparently, spearheaded by a REPULICAN! Having lived on the banks of the Hudson Riverm ost of my life, I was one of those who directly benefited from his efforts to preserve and protect the magnifcent Palisade Cliffs. If you've ever had the pleasure and privilege of visiting any of a number of our magnificent Natl. Parks, thank Teddy Roosevelt!

And thanks to a Democratic President, Pres. John Kennedy, 43,500 acres of seashore, dunes, marsh have been preserved and protected for all time. Now I too, am assured that this magnicent land, the Cape Cod National Seashore, will forever be free from the pollution and exclusionary ramifications of multi million dollar "trophy homes." I may walk and comb the same beaches and shoreline as Thoreau, who was inspired to write some of his most inspirational works, here on Cape Cod.

So it seems that environmentalism cannot be dissmissively labeled a liberal, left wing issue. Men and women of both political persuasions have historically put the health of the earth at the forefront. It is an issue held dear by all who wish to respect and protect one of God's greatest gifts to us all, this magnificent earth.


Yes Leslie, the environment is right there near the top of MY list of "moral values issues," a topic that sadly, garned little if any attention during the campaign. Much to his credit, it was a Republican Pres., Pres. Nixon, who set into the motion and made law, the Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act whose regulations, strict guidelines and standards are now, after 30 years of progress, in peril of being rolled back by the Bush administration. In fact it was the Nixon administration which created the Environmental Protection Agency. on 1970 by Exectutive Order.

From the EPA's website...

"In 1970 President Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) by Executive Order. An executive order is an order issued by a government's chief executive, intended to give attention to a certain law or body of laws and directs federal agencies how to implement them. The formation of EPA marked a dramatic change in national policy regarding the control of air pollution. Whereas previous federal involvement had been mostly in advisory and educational roles, the new EPA emphasized stringent enforcement of air pollution laws. The EPA was assigned the daunting task of repairing the damage already done to the natural environment and establishing new criteria to guide Americans in making a cleaner environment a reality. A few weeks later the United States Congress passed the Clean Air Act Amendments (CAAA) of 1970. The passage of the CAAA of 1970 marked the beginning of modern efforts to control air pollution".

We wring our hands and pull out our hair, worrying about the harazdous affects of "second hand smoke" upon our health while we seem far less than concerned about the toxins being dumped into our waterways, released into our atmoshphere by industy!!!


If you'd liketo learn more about the Clean Air Act, the Bush administration's efforts to weaken the Clean Air Act and what you can do to about it, click here...Save the Clean Air Act (http://www.savethecleanairact.org/public/)

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
In fact, the father of the environmental movement, the nation's first notable conservationist, was also one of our greatest presidents, the progressive Republican Teddy Roosevelt.

I had the pleasure of serving for three years aboard his namesake, the USS Theodore Roosevelt during which time I gained great respect for him as a statesman, writer, historian, naturalist and environmentalist. He is also the architect of the modern U.S. Navy, won the Nobel Peace Prize and busted the trusts. He is one of our most overlooked presidents when the "great" ones are discussed.

There are many who mistakenly refer to him as "Teddy" Roosevelt. He was called "Teddy" by his first wife Alice. When she died he forbade anyone from using it in his presence.

One of the first things we were taught upon arriving at the ship was that it was to be referred to as the "USS Theodore Roosevelt" or the "TR," but never the "Teddy" Roosevelt out of respect for his wishes. To this day I still use Theodore or TR.

[tatsxxx11]

Thank you so much for that clarification, jscperson! I certianly meant no disrespect; to the contrary, I admire him greatly! Interesting that so many websites and the "vernacular," continue to refer to him as Teddy! My apologies to Alice and to the President!

What a great experience and honor that must have been for you, serving on the USS Theordore Roosevelt!:)

[Lady's Human]

I have no problem with a feasible environmental strategy, however the extremists have taken over the debate. Wind farms were a golden solution 15 years ago, however now the same environmental groups that were pushing their development are trying to defeat new developments (Nantucket sound and CA) and trying to shut down existing wind farms (CA). Nuclear power was very effectively shut down in the US (No new plants since Seabrook), and Hydro power is anathema to the environmental extremists. If we go to some form of electric vehicle for transportation, where is the electricity going to come from?

There needs to be a bridge from point a (oil dependency) to point b (alternative solutions), but the extremists on both sides won't allow it. Nuclear power is quite safe (Chernobyl could never happen in the US, for one we don't use that reator type, and our safety controls are much more effective), but instead of building plants in the US, GE is shipping plants overseas. Wind and Solar can only at present make up for a small proportion of the power required by the US. Any alternatives, anyone?

[tatsxxx11]

Points well taken, LH. I live on Nantucket Sound and so am quite familiar with the controversy currently raging regarding the proposed wind farm to be constructed on Horseshoe Shoals. Environmental impact not withstanding, the case has been taken to federal court, disputing the right of a private, commercial enterprise, namely Cape Wind Farm, to construct these turbines in fedral waters. Certainly no one is naive enough to believe that Cape Wind Farm is acting in the pubic interest, for altruistic reasons. They are out to make a buck and to set such a precedent, to allow similiar private enterprises to construct these tubines in federal water without oversee, is I believe, something we do at our peril.

Opponents and state officials argue that there is no firm regulatory structure to determine how and where offshore wind farms can be built in federal waters, and that the plan should be halted until a clear approval process is established. A powerful anti-wind farm group, the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound, also filed suit in federal court saying that the Army Corps of Engineers, which licensed the construction of the data tower, had no authority to permit the use of "public waters" to a private developer without clear guidelines in place. That case is pending in federal court.

Yes, in theory, one may argue that this should indeed be a project hearlded by environmentalists. But the postive aspects of the farm may in fact be out weighed by a myriad of negative impacts, including effects upon some of the most fertile fisheries in the country and possbile impact upon weather patterns amd interference with shipping lanes. Here it is not the construction of such a project that is at issue so much as the location.

Being the eternal optimist that I am, and having great faith in American ingenuity and know how, I have to be believe that somewhere out there, there's got to be some emerging Einstien who will come up with the ultimate solution to our energy crissi;)

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
Thank you so much for that clarification, jscperson! I certianly meant no disrespect; to the contrary, I admire him greatly! Interesting that so many websites and the "vernacular," continue to refer to him as Teddy! My apologies to Alice and to the President!

What a great experience and honor that must have been for you, serving on the USS Theordore Roosevelt!:)

I'm sorry, I did not mean it to be taken as a correction of what you wrote.

That is a personal choice I still make. Walking the passageways of that great ship and realizing what it represents was a tremendous honor. Hardly a day goes by when I don't think about some aspect of my career in the Navy, including Desert Storm. My office on the TR had a poster with the words of John F. Kennedy:


Any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile -- can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction. "I served in the United States Navy"

[tatsxxx11]

You've given me goosebumps, jcperson! Among my most beloved American heroes are President Roosevelt and President Kennedy, both "Navy men." Their deeds, their words, hold such hope, optimism and inspiration. Thank you for your service to our country!:) And I took NO offense at all at being "corrected!":)

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
You've given me goosebumps, jcperson! Among my most beloved American heroes are President Roosevelt and President Kennedy, both "Navy men." Their deeds, their words, hold such hope, optimism and inspiration. Thank you for your service to our country!:) And I took NO offense at all at being "corrected!":)

JFK is the first president I can remember. I was 8 when he was assassinated. I remember that as a time when people rarely spoke ill of the president and even the most vociferous political arguments were on issues rather than personalities.

From everything I've read, TR was most likely our most revered president while in office. When he uttered his famous, "Speak softly, but carry a big stick" line, the White House mail room was deluged with all manner of sticks, clubs and cudgels, many elaborately carved, for him to brandish at speeches. On the USS Theodore Roosevelt we had a tiny TR museum with one of those cudgels on display. It also had a set of his pearl-handled revolvers, stuffed birds he had collected, campaign badges, photos, and other mementos.

[K9soul]

I don't have anything to contribute to the conversation right now but I wanted to say I am really enjoying the posts and am learning a lot too! Thank you!

[tatsxxx11]

Woe for the day that our Presidents and leaders were held in reverence during their lifetimes. They say the nation lost it's innocence the day that JFK was shot and I do believe that to be true, that innocence replaced by a cynacism and skeptism that is bound to cloud the true merit of the man...or woman.

I was reading an Audobon article recently which noted TR's great love for birds. It may be myth but has been said, that on his death bed, he mentioned among his greatest regrets in passing, was to never again hear the sweet, sad music of the thrush.

For example, TR’s journal sensually describes the sounds of the wilderness birds in this passage, referred to as "Keatsian" by biographers:

"Perhaps the sweetest bird music I have ever listened to was uttered by a hermit thrush....We had been out for two or three hours but had seen nothing; once we heard a tree fall with a dull, heavy crash; and two or three times the harsh hooting of an owl had been answered by the unholy laughter of a loon from the bosom of the lake, but otherwise nothing had occurred to break the death-like stillness of the night....Suddenly the quiet was broken by the song of a hermit thrush; louder and clearer it sang from the depths of the grim and rugged woods, until the sweet, sad music seemed to fill the very air and to conquer for the moment the gloom of the night. I shall never forget it."

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
I was reading an Audobon article recently which noted TR's great love for birds. It may be myth but has been said, that on his death bed, he mentioned among his greatest regrets in passing, was to never again hear the sweet, sad music of the thrush.

For example, TR’s journal sensually describes the sounds of the wilderness birds in this passage, referred to as "Keatsian" by biographers:

"Perhaps the sweetest bird music I have ever listened to was uttered by a hermit thrush....We had been out for two or three hours but had seen nothing; once we heard a tree fall with a dull, heavy crash; and two or three times the harsh hooting of an owl had been answered by the unholy laughter of a loon from the bosom of the lake, but otherwise nothing had occurred to break the death-like stillness of the night....Suddenly the quiet was broken by the song of a hermit thrush; louder and clearer it sang from the depths of the grim and rugged woods, until the sweet, sad music seemed to fill the very air and to conquer for the moment the gloom of the night. I shall never forget it." "Keatsian" is appropriate. Not too many people can write like that anymore.