Petition to help cats in China

[Kirsten]

I've started a petition when I've read in an article in the German magazine "Stern" (issue No. 17, April 2001)
about how cruel cats are treated in China. In some gourmet restaurants, you can order cats for dinner,
and the torture and pain they have to go through before they finally get killed is beyond words
(you can read more in the body of the petition).

So I've decided to start this petition to let the Chinese goverment know that I don't agree and to
ask them to stop this cruelty.

BTW, after I've set up the petition, I've read another article on this subject (in ödp-Journal, No. 88, Jan. 1999),
which is so disgusting and horrible that I'm not sure if I should post about it here... However, in some Chinese restaurants they
offer "Choi Dong Tsai" (Jumping meat). This is a kitten, shaped and getting its tail and paws chopped off,
thrown into hot oil - while it is still alive!!! With all due respect to a foreign culture and their eating habits,
I think this is just perverted and sick! (I haven't mentioned this in the petition because I've applied for it
BEFORE I've read this article).

So please, if you share my concern, please sign at http://www.petitionpetition.com/cgi/petition.cgi?id=1724 and spread the word!

To those who already signed:
(Please note that this is petition No. 2. I've asked to delete the original one on Saturday because I wanted
to add a few lines directly adressed to the Chinese government to the body of the petition and since I couldn't edit
the text once the petition started, I've made a second one - this one. The first one will probably be deleted,
so if you've already signed there, it would be nice if you could sign this one, too. I'm sorry
for the inconvenience.)

Thank you very much!

Kirsten

http://home.t-online.de/home/0554132997/petition.jpg

BTW, if you would like to link to this petition from your own website, you can use the following
html code:

<p align="center"><a href="http://www.petitionpetition.com/cgi/petition.cgi?id=1724 target="blank">
<img src="http://home.t-online.de/home/0554132997/petition.jpg"></a></p>

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www.cats-in-the-net.de.vu (http://www.cats-in-the-net.de.vu)
www.pet-cemetery.de.vu (http://www.pet-cemetery.de.vu)

[Kirsten]

That's so disgusting, Spencer, I'm sorry that this happened to you! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif Must have been a horrible experience for both you and your cat!

Kirsten

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www.pet-cemetery.de.vu (http://www.pet-cemetery.de.vu)

[tatsxxx11]

Spencer, I remember 60 Minutes doing a lengthy piece about the use of "real fur" on toys and stuffed animals a while back. Sorry you had this experience. Disgusting.

[Gina]

Did anyone read the other animal rights petitions on that site?....I'm sick to my stomach. I signed a good few, until I couldn't read anymore.

Btw: the button posted above won't come right on my web page. I tried everything, I have designed four pages so far so I'm able, but it's just not working. Iused "Frontpage". Any ideas?

[Gina]

Ok, one other thing, you're probably not going to like me much after this, but, sure here goes:

My thoughts;
Some people don't eat meat, some people eat meat. I eat meat. Cows included. Freedom of choice.
Cows are sacred animals in India, I wonder do they hate me and my kind? This is an example. What I'm trying to say is this- If the Chinese eat cats or dogs it is their social conditioning, they probably don't see anything wrong, even though I do. If I do, that is my social conditioning. It is not the eating of the animal that is the problem, it is a fact of life, although personally I find it abhorent(isn't that a double standard?). It is the cruelty endured by the animal that really gets me. I just can't go the torture:- I don't get it. Why? You know my heart bleeds for them, whether they be cats horses, cows, you name it, in any country including my own.... I have absolutley no comprehension of the "why?" of it. What more can I say?

I don't expect anyone to agree, and I'm not going to argue my stance with anyone, I just wanted to say how I see it! Please don't take offence, it is not meant. I too personise my babies, give them names, baby them, run to the vet and would die if anything happened to them, and am so glad that I don't live in China, or India for that matter!

>^..^< !

[4 feline house]

I'm not taking a stance either, but when I first saw this topic, I somehow thought of lobsters.

[Kirsten]

Gina, I can totally see your point, I've even thought about it before I started the petition. Personally I don't eat meat because I don't want an animal to die for me. I also find it digusting what happens in the slaughterhouses or in the medical labs in MY country. But when I read this article about the cats, I couldn't get it out of my thoughts anymore. Maybe it's because I like cats so much, or maybe because the pictures in it where so heartbreaking, I don't know. I think I wouldn't even have such a big problem with the Chinese eating cats if they wouldn't treat them so bad BEFORE they are killed, it breaks my heart to even think about it.
4 feline house, you're also right about the lobsters, this is something I find totally disgusting and unnecessary, too.

BTW, Gina, no idea why it isn't working with the html code, it's working for me... But I don't have any experiences with "Frontpage", I'm building my sites by working with html scripts only...

Kirsten

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www.pet-cemetery.de.vu (http://www.pet-cemetery.de.vu)

[kachuma]

I wanted to strengthen Gina's point. We cannot hierarchally rank animals according to cuteness and decide that those animals that are cutest we will not eat and no other should eat. It is also a lost cause to try to turn the world vegetarian. The emphasis should definitely be placed on the amount of suffering the animal goes through before he is killed and how he is killed.
I was worried when I did not have a strong reaction to the Hoof and Mouth slaughter that is taking place in Great Britain. Then I realized I didn't see it as any different than the slaughter that is taking place around the world every day for our evening meal. In both situations it should be done as humanely as possible. I personally am not a vegetarian for I did not know how to draw the line (animal by-products and so forth) I do eat very little meat once every month or two months, because I think people eat meat in excess (some people every day!) and I do make an effort to find animal products which caused less suffering, for example, I don't eat goose liver and I buy eggs which are from free-range chickens and cruelty free cosmetics.
I am interested to hear other opinions on this for I am still forming my own.

[kachuma]

Some other really good reasons to cut down!

[4 feline house]

I wholeheartedly agree with Kachuma on two points: Animals cannot be hierarched (is that a word?) and HUMANE is the key word. I eat meat, and I enjoy eating meat. Man is an omnivore, and a vegan diet is unnatural and difficult for most people to maintain successfully.

However, as someone who lacks only a semester in completing a degree in dietetics, I must clarify I few things in Spencer's post. Most Americans are overweight because they do not get enough exercise and eat too much junk food, fried food and highly refined carbohydrates. If we would take a walk everyday and cut out the ice cream, potato chips, hamburger helper, and Kentucky Fried Chicken there would be a massive amount of weight lost amongst us. The same factors, as well as a hefty dose of pure genetics, cause most high cholesterol problems. And diabetes either a) has no known cause as of yet but is closely (but not absolutely) linked to excess weight and age (type 2) which, once again, have more to do with the lack of exercise and a refined, fatty diet, or b) is an autoimmune disease caused when the islet cells on the pancreas are destroyed by misguided antibodies, and has absolutely nothing to do with weight, age or diet (type 1).

Whether or not to be a vegetarian or a vegan is a very personal matter, with alot of reasons being determining factors. But eating meat, within moderation, is not unnatural nor unhealthy for man.

And, no, I do not work for the Cattle Ranchers Association of Texas. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif

[AdoreMyDogs]

I don't know why it's OK to eat a lamb, cow, baby cow, chicken etc and not eat cats or dogs. I don't eat any animal, nor do I care to eat any animal, but why is it OK to put a cow or a chicken through a hellish life, cramped in unlivable conditions, cut off it's beak, feet, or cram it into a stall so small that it can't turn around, back up or lye down for it's short life then slaughter it, and sell it as food but it's not OK to eat a dog or cat. I understand that it's shocking that anyone would eat a cat, but I find it shocking that people eat other animals that had the most horrendous life prior to being slaughtered...a life so bad that slaughter is a blessing.

Sorry to ruffle feathers, but I think all animals have feelings, not just cats & dogs. I am not putting down any individual for eating meat, most of my friends, and most of my family eat meat but I am ashamed that the USA as a country would allow such horrible quarters for any food animal. If the animals were treated as respectfully as many of the organic free range animals are treated it would be more shocking to me that cats are eaten.

[pam_pesto]

I am not passing judgement on anyone, but more and more I am unable to eat animals of any sort. Starting when I was 16 I stopped eating red meat. So that eliminated cows, pigs, sheep and so on. Now, 5 years later I am having trouble stomaching the idea of eating birds too. I have told my husband that once we finish the chicken/turkey in our chest freezer I will not eat it any more. The idea of eating a dead creature is really starting to disgust me. I mean, think about road kill. We wouldn't eat road kill! I am OK with fish for now, but that probably won't last. I just can't do it anymore. My problem with it partly has to do with the human imperialist roots to meat-eating. I am sorry if I have offended anyone. My husband still eats all kinds of meat. I just can't do it myself.

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http://www.angelfire.com/pq/coolcatclub/main.html

[margaret]

I also have a difficult time eating meat because of the revulsion of eating a dead animal and because I feel guilty contributing to the meat-processing industry. BUT I do eat chicken regularly! I would like to stop being a hypocrite and eliminate meat from my diet completely. However, if I take such steps, logic tells me that I should really go all the way and avoid all animal by-products (leather, dairy, chicken broth, etc.)as well. Kachuma expressed my dilemma perfectly by writing, "I'm not a vegetarian/vegan because I don't know how to draw the line". I guess I'd have to read some of the vegan promotional literature or take a class! Becoming a vegan is a really a tricky issue and I believe it takes a lot of careful thought, determination, and a thorough understanding of how to do it right.

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~Margaret

[4 feline house]

I think Spencer's post has the key word for most people in this controversy: COMPANION. Most people consider cats, dogs, horses, guinea pigs, etc. to be friends since they recognize their owners and exhibit affection towards them. Far fewer people put cows, pigs, chickens, etc. in this category. And that's probably why most animals fall on one side of the don't eat line while some fall on the other. Again, it falls down to a personal choice for each person, depending on where they draw that line. Disgust with inhumane conditions causes alot of people to draw that line in a difference place than they might normally.

[sammi]

I DON'T want to get into religion but as far as what animals are to be eaten for those that beleive in the bible it is stated somewhere what types of animals should and should not be eaten I believe. This might be where some of choices of what meat we feel is accepted to eat comes from.

[kachuma]

From what I've read on the Internet, China has a horrible animal rights ethic. I don't know if anyone here has read about the bear bile farms. DON'T read about it if you don't know what it is. It is very upsetting, I couldn't sleep for nights after that. To reiterate my point, I do think that petitions should be signed concerning the treatment of ANY animal around the world but it is presumptuous and, for lack of better word, imperialist to try and dictate what animals other countries should eat just because it is unacceptable in our "western" countries and religions.(Israel, in some aspects, can be considered a western country)
Does any one think a difference should be made between farmed animals raised by man and wild animals. Sometimes when I think about a huge tuna, who survived all the difficulties of life in the ocean to grow to his great size, all on his own, and then is plucked from the sea by man with minimal effort, and I think that is unfair. We wouldn't like to eat other wild animals, or am I way off on this. By the way, I do eat tuna and other fish, farmed and not farmed.
I am just pondering.

[pam_pesto]

Someone where I work told me that there are Chinese food restaurants in my very city where they serve dogs and cats for dinner; they just don't put it on the menu. Unfortunately the slightest bit of protest and you are accused of being racist, or a cultural supremisist. I don't like ANYONE who is mean to animals. ANY animal. I can't even kill a spider, although I am deadly terrified of them.

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Personal servant for Pesto
http://www.angelfire.com/80s/pestoswitzer/main.html
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[4 feline house]

China has such a deplorable human rights record, why would we expect them to treat their animals better than their citizens? Sign that petition if you feel so moved!

[Ben E Gas]

Cows or no cows, culture or no culture. It is plainly sick, to torture any animal in the manner described in the original post of this topic. I do beleive cows aren't treated too well here. Why can't they atleast treat the cows with respect before they die, not herd them into little cells and such. I am a meat eater myself but I do not condone any cruel and unnessesary punishment to animals. There is a right way and a wrong way to do it.

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Igor Inc. (c)2001

[Kirsten]

There are many good toughts in all these posts!
First of all, I'd like to make clear again that it isn't the fact that the Chinese are eating the cats (because I don't want to rank animals hierarchally), it's more the way they are treated and tortured. This is what I find more than disgusting, it just shouldn't happen!
BTW, if I'd known about this petition page earlier I would have also started one against the killing of 40.000 cows in Germany this year during the BSE-crisis.

There was a post about where to draw the line when you're vegetarian and I know this dilemma very well. Personally I have the policy to abstain from animal products as far as my health isn't endangered. This means that I don't eat meat and fish, but eggs and milk (because I think pure veganism isn't very good). I'm not buying leather products - except shoes (you can't do without leather shoes in a rainy country like Germany). When I know that a company produces cosmetics without animal testing, I'm buying their products. I'm making a few exceptions: When I'm buying medicine, I know that it's animal tested http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif, I'm also buying products containing gelatine. And of course I'm buying cat food for Luna! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

However, I know that this subject might be very controversal and I thought about it before I started the petition, but I felt it would have been wrong not to do so...

BTW, I've also signed the petition about the St. Bernhard dogs...

Kirsten

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[Gina]

While we're on the topic......

BSE: The slaughter is stomach churning, but nessasary. What was not nessasary was the root of it all. The animals contracted the disease through mans greed for money http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/mad.gif
How? by feeding the animals (herbivores!!) there own species back to them in ground bone meal! Why do this? faster weight gain, less waste, cheaper!..... well obviously it wasn't! Not only Germany was affected: Britain, Ireland, Italy, alot of Europe had/ has cases! Not all farmers used these feeding practises, some were "caught" by buying in infected stock unknowingly, and sometimes internationally. It is a sad state of affairs.

Foot & Mouth: Disease happens, ok I have to accept this, but it's the handling of the situation that got me. Thank God, we didn't get more than one case in the Republic. But I have to say it was hard to take seeing the tipper truck in Britain offloading the many carcises. I cried. I also cried when seeing a report on BBC of a flock of sheep being targets for the people(Army) supposed to be putting them to sleep humanly in Wales! The BBC showed an amateur video of this, and what got me was one particular ewe wasn't killed first time, had to be caught, wrestled and then shot again, while her lamb was frantically jumping around her. Who ever "he" was he needs help! Here we go on the cruelty thing again. So I must say: I just done see the"why?" of it.

Spencer, nice quote! Very apt, very brilliant.....very true!

[pam_pesto]

Gina, the image of the sheep makes me feel sick to my stomach. The poor little lamb, the poor mother sheep who didn't do anything to deserve such cruelness. I imagine the poor lamb and how he must have felt and it makes me cry.

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[Meow101]

This is horrible, cruel, disgusting, mean, I could go on and on! It makes me furious that people would do such horrid things! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/mad.gif! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/mad.gif!! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/mad.gif!!! All this is making me sick to my stomach. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/eek.gif Kirsten, I linked to the petition, signed it, and even signed in Boogie's name! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/wink.gif I hope this stops!!!!!!
-Mary

[Kirsten]

That's an interesting point you've made, Spencer...

Mary, I've seen you also signing in Boogie's name, that was sweet! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif And thanks for putting the banner to your website!

Kirsten

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[4 feline house]

I'm curious, the people who don't eat meat for moral reasons: since it is not unnatural for man to eat meat, yet you eschew it, how do you reconcile feeding it to your cat?

[Kirsten]

I agree, that's another dilemma when you're going vege, but cats (unlike humans) are carnivores, so I'm feeding her meat.

Kirsten

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[Gina]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SpencerTheLion:
[B]...this is sort of related (treatment of animals), and controversial for sure (twice).

When a pet is euthanized, don't they just give it a single overdose of barbituates? Hope someone knows.

His Spence! I know that over here, when a cat or dog is put asleep, they are injected with and overdose of the normal anesthetic given to animals prior to surgery. So, as explained to me; the pet goes to sleep...but then never wakes up. I've seen it happen. It was distressing for me, and the animal was worried before being injected. Once injected, I have to say, it seems very peaceful, and painless, and surprisingly fast acting.

[Meow101]

Kirsten,
I could also sign Samson's name if you want. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/wink.gif I personally DO eat meat, but I sort of feel bad doing it. The only thing is, I'd STARVE if I didn't have meat! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif
-Mary


[This message has been edited by Meow101 (edited May 20, 2001).]

[annibale16]

I have just read all of this and although I strongly disagree with what China is doing, I have to agree with the one who stated that it is a cultural thing and these animals are not endangered species. Coming from the south and having eaten beef,pork and chickens and turkeys all my life, I am hooked, although I eat in moderation. I DO NOT agree with the practice of DEER HUNTING that is so popular in my area because although the hunters eat the meat, they do not have to depend on deer meat to survive as our ancestors did. On the other hand, they can say they do it for population control. Maybe that is what the Chinese are doing.
Now, some of you are going to hate me for this but down here on the coast of South Carolina, we do make the practice of eating crabs and lobsters. We do boil them while they are still alive, but that is because you can not eat crestacians once they are dead. They spoil fast. So, I am a crab killer but the meat is soooo good!! And I don't think you can really get very close to sea creatures, they don't make very good pets.
However, Ben E Gas, you probably know that they do eat turtles in the carribean.(and even here in SC, but I would not!)
People eat iguanas in Central America and they are pets here in the US. In Australia they eat Kangaroo and Ostrich.
So, it really is a regional, social thing.
We should not be condemning others for their actions because we ourselves do things that are not "kosher" to others!!!

[yorkster]

Thank you Spencer for pointing out that just because something is a 'cultural thing', does not make it the right thing to do, and definately not the compassionate thing. It is too easy to say that a particular practice is acceptable due to cultural beliefs. I live in Washington state where there is controversy every year about whale-hunting/killing, and hear the subject debated often. Initially I thought that maybe based on cultural beliefs it should be allowed. I have since changed my opinion completely. I hope that I don't offend anyone by bringing up the whole whale debate. Maybe outside of Wash. it is not talked about much, but if you live here, it has for years been a very touchy subject for most people, with everyone taking a strong stance one way or another. Well now I am going-on too much, but my point is just what Spencer has already said.

[annibale16]

Sorry if I stepped on some "paws", Spencer, but I do not mean that I in any way like the idea of eating cats and dogs. I have long ago boycotted chinese restuarants for that very problem. I just meant to say that people around the world do things differently. I agree it doesn't make it right.
The thought of eating cats and dogs and Horses, is horrible!! However, the crabs are a different story. And it is not like we eat them every day for our daily meal like people eat beef. Crabs are the scavengers of the ocean, the rats and bugs of the ocean. They just happen to taste very good. You know some people eat oysters raw and that is a living thing. So, THEY(not me, yuk!) are eating a live animal so to speak. Well, I don't want to get in anymore trouble and I highly respect Spencer and his wisdom so I will not say anything else on this subject!