Declawing

[HowieDawn]

I know that I am going to hit a sore spot out there...but I would like both the positive and the negative feedback of those who choose to declaw and not to declaw their cats.

Thank you.

[carrie]

I think most people that visit this site know my views on the surgical mutilation of the pets we profess to love so I'll just say you would not find a vet in the UK willing to carry out this procedure.

[samualjcat]

Remember me telling you of Gizmo? My mom had her declawed so she wouldn't shred the furniture. Unfortunately, Giz loved to be outside so we then had to train her to a harness and leash. She still managed to get into some fights with local roamers and always came out on the losing end. As a result I swore I would never declaw any cat. My own 2 now, Missy and Sam, refuse to use a scratching post but love my old rattan chair from college. It's ugly as sin but I keep it just for them. It definitly saves the rest of my furniture.

[HowieDawn]

OK just to throw this out to ya... what's the difference between that and circumsision (sp?) they are both along the same lines.

[HowieDawn]

Ok Spencer... I read the sites you gave me. Here's the scoop. I currently have two cats and as you know just recently recieved a kitten. My First cat is a year and a half old. I rescued her and her brothers when someone dumped them off at my house. The vet estimated them around 4 or 5 weeks old. The kittens only had about 4 teeth each...they were very tiny. I ended up taking care of them and then giving them away. Lucy, I kept. I got her fixed and her front paws are declawed. I bought the newspaper litter and she never once had problems. I think that if this is done at an early age that it doesn't bother the cat as much. I am not going to sit here and say that it doesn't. Lucy did very well. She never limped once. She is completely an inside cat and on the rare occasion that she goes outside, she is on a leash and harness. In March of this year, my husband and I got another cat, Gina. Gina is a Himalayan. A very beautiful cat. Her previous owners said that they did not want her anymore because she stalks their macaw. (I have 6 birds) I found out that Gina has her front paws declawed. I received her when she was two years old. Neither of my cats EVER go outside. The only time they do is to go to the vet and then i put the leash and harness on them, just in case they get frightened and somehow manage to get away. Don't think that I am an awful person because I chose to declaw Lucy.

As I was reading the post about the lady that her mother's cats were clawing up her furniture, it reminds me of my cats. I am not sure that cats "claw" things to sharpen their claws. My cats still "claw" furniture. And their favorite place to do it is on a HUGE fish aquarium. Its weird. I read somewhere that it is an instinct and they do it to release bacteria that builds up in their paws.

-sorry for writting so much, i got carried away.-

[carrie]

Cats scratch posts and furniture to leave scent marks and to keep the muscles that operate the claws toned and excersised. It is instinctive and removing the claws does not remove the instinct.
If you are asking the difference between circumsision and declawing - one is done to humans usually on religious grounds and is a tradition then carried on through many generations. The circumsised of one generation circumsise the following one. It is a cultural choice. As far as we know cats do not have a religion that requires declawing and they certainly do not do it to their kittens.
If your are asking the difference regarding neutering - we have created the domestic cat and in such numbers that many have no home, insufficient food and medical care and it is up to us to rectify the situation. We could ban cat ownership and set up major programmes to get rid of the vast feral cat population until such time as strays are a thing of the past. Or we could neuter our animals to ensure that only kits with responsible, loving homes waiting for them are born. This would end the misery and suffering of millions of animals and save millions in animal control and rescue.

[Pam]

Spencer......Hard to believe you were once a cat hater!! Who would have thunk!! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif Isn't it funny how we change as life goes on. You are such an informed "cat advocate" and we here at the BB are happy you are. I had dogs all of my life and, quite honestly, wondered what people saw in cats. All that changed 7 years ago with the arrival of my first cat in my life, and I am making up for lost time, loving my two little guys like crazy!! They say confession is good for the soul, so I have to confess that both my sweeties are declawed. Coming from a "dog background" I guess I really wasn't informed and did what everyone else seemed to be doing. Please don't hate me. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif My little guys do still "scratch" but they are using their "imaginary" claws. I am glad they still have their instincts intact at least. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

[HowieDawn]

Spencer, I know that you didn't "really" think that I was awful. No hard feelings.

I too used to not care for cats at all. Growing up we only had dogs, and my grandmother had a 19 year old cat. My love didn't grow for cats until I saw my poor little scrawny Lucy.

[crazykat]

For all the cat scratches (playing and kneading) Sprocket has given me I would NEVER want to declaw him. It is cruel . Besides if you let your cat go outside he will need those claws to survive!!!!

[Vixis]

I don't believe in removing claws from cats, I trim our cats claws once a month including our sheltie's. Here is a trick I learned, go out and buy a round Turbo Scratcher. Underneath the cardboard center, place catnip. Our 2 cats go nuts for it, they use it all the time. I usually rotate the center monthly and flip it over to the other side for even usage, this eliminates them from scratching anywhere else.



Originally posted by HowieDawn:
I know that I am going to hit a sore spot out there...but I would like both the positive and the negative feedback of those who choose to declaw and not to declaw their cats.

Thank you.

[lhg0962]

In fact, Spencer, you are absolutely right to be enraged. I hope someone finds that cat and gives it a proper home, preferably not where it came from! It is running away from something!

[Troy]

> Am I out of line to be upset with such repeat irresponsibility?

No you are not. What I can't understand is how these cats are escaping - unless there is a very good reason, something that is out of control of the owners.

[gini]

For what it is worth.........I have friends who have two males that they have declawed. What I have noticed is that while playing with them, if you scratch a spot they don't like, instead of swatting at you with their paws - THEY BITE!! AND HARD!!
A cat scratch can heal fairly rapidly, but a bite is another matter. Personally, I would never consider declawing my cats, but again, that is just my personal opinion. Patches is an older female, and stays in the backyard during the day for a short time. I can keep her claws trimmed. Rascal on the other hand was an outdoor cat until I adopted him. He loves to roam the neighborhood and I keep his claws long so that he can fully defend himself. I am working on getting him to stay home more.

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[HogWarts_Wizard]

Thinking about it....
You can replace furniture. But you can't replace the cats claws

I have 3 cats with claws and they don not touch any of the furniture... I keep scratching posts round the house.
When my cats were kittens they did try and scratch the couch but keeping a spray bottle full of water helped keep them from sredding it. I didn't have to do this for very long and cats are smart enough to know what not to scratch.... http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

[HowieDawn]

Spencer the Lion, were you directing the last comment towards me. If you were, I must have said something wrong because this is what I wanted to hear from everyone. I want everyones honest opionion.

[The_Auggie]

http://members.tripod.co.uk/Xcat/tweety.gif
Please don't hurt the kitty...... http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

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http://members.tripod.co.uk/Xcat/sylves.gif

[4 feline house]

Spencer's dad-
in defense of the folks that belong to the repeatedly lost declawed kitty-

1) Some cats just get out, no matter how much you try to keep them in. My mom cat was a pregnant homeless street cat when I adopted her. She had a taste of the outdoors and frequently escapes. Now her boy has caught on - he's nearly twenty pounds and when he pushes past your legs out that door it's very hard to stop him. I consider my cats to be indoor cats, and endeavor to keep them indoors, but it's a futile effort sometimes, and I then have to resort to prayer.

2) I do not put collars and tags on my cats because a stalking boyfriend once traced me through my cat's tag. Other people may have had similar experiences or fears, especially us women who live with no men in the house. Also, if a collar is loose enough to not choke the cat it's also loose enough to come off, frequently.

I do agree with you, however, just wanted to note that sometimes things are not as they seem.

[4 feline house]

Originally posted by lhg0962:
In fact, Spencer, you are absolutely right to be enraged. I hope someone finds that cat and gives it a proper home, preferably not where it came from! It is running away from something!

For some reason this comment reminded me of something I once did.

This will probably outrage some people, and on one hand I felt very guilty, but on the other I probably saved a cat's life-

I had a friend who lived on the outskirts of a rural town. She had several dogs, who were tormenting her cat, so she took her cat over to an empty house she owned in town. The house was on the town square, which was zoned commercial, so her house would always be empty, and no one lived on the square. But she thougth her cat was ok. Once I had gone to see her, and she said she couldn't find Bingo. We drove into Sanger to look for her, but couldn't find her. The next time I talked to her, she had been seen by my friend, but only that. Then the next time I saw her, Bingo was lost again. Ten days later she was still gone! I thought the worst had happened, and was so relieved to hear that she had been found - she had gotten caught in someone's shed, and since this was business storage, it wasn't used often. Ten days later they went back to the shed, and there was Bingo. I couldn't stand it, so few weeks later, after waiting until dark, me and another friend drove up to Sanger and got Bingo and adopted her at the next Adopt-a-Pet. My friend never to this day knows that I stole her cat, but I couldn't stand the thought of her only being checked on every few days, and the likelyhood that she would get locked in another building again, and maybe not rescued in time. Funny thing, though, is my friend never mentioned that Bingo had gotten lost again. I think by then she had forgotten she even owned a cat.

[lhg0962]

That is a brave thing you did, and even braver that you admit it. I guess you didn't feel comfortable saying anything to your friend. But, is she still your friend? I feel so sorry for unwanted animals. Of course that cat was going to run away. They rely on companionship of some type. I'm glad you shared your story.
Logan

[4 feline house]

Thanks for reassuring me that kidnaping my friend's cat was the right thing to do! No, we are no longer in touch, but not because of the purloined cat incident.

That's a good idea about the e-mail address on the tag - the boyfriend incident happened almost 20 years ago-long before e-mails and cell phones and the like could allow you to be in touch but still anonymous. That was also in the days when I let my cats roam freely. My mama cat is getting less and less inclined to go out, but it may just be because we've had such a long spell of unseasonably cold weather this winter. The other one that goes out rarely leaves the patio, and he's easily spooked back in. In fact, today he got out, saw that the sky had broken to pieces and was falling, (a rare snow shower in North Texas) and ran back in. So, unless spring weather makes Peaches start to miss her street life again, the likelihood of losing a cat for me is extremely small.

Another problem that increases the cat population is abandoned animals. There are still way too many clods and yahoos that think that animals treasure there gonads as much as men do, and absolutely refuse to neuter their animals. My dad, not normally a Neanderthal, was one of these men. Fortunately, in our family, the women have balls as big as the men (don't mean to offend any sensitive readers) so my mom always just ignored him and fixed the animals anyway. There are just as many clods and yahoos who think that since they are animals, dogs and cats can take care of themselves, so when they are no longer wanted they are dumped, usually unfixed. They fail to understand that they have been domesticated for millennia, and are almost as unable to take care of themselves as we are in the wilderness.

Anyway, I'm back on a soapbox, so I'll just get off now!

[Troy]

"4 feline house" I must agree with you on the desexing issue. There is simply no excuse not to, for both males and females. However...

I think saying that cats are almost unable to take care of themselves in the wild is not particularly true (excluding indoor cats). Most cats will bring home prey like birds and rodents and will eat insects, obviously not as much as they would in the wild - but why should they if they are being well fed, perhaps apart from curiosity. Cats are superbly adaptable and very much able to take care of themselves which is precisly why in many countries feral cat populations are almost out of control. They can adapt to anything from Australia's deserts to the almost arctic conditions of nearer the north and south poles. Many breeds have not been domesticated for a millennia and can still be found in the wild.

[carrie]

Troy, totally agree, cats can and do go feral with relative ease.
Spencer - I'm a bit confused, what are you apologising for? I've never read anything posted by you that was agressive in any way. It's obvious that you have cat welfare at the heart of all your posts and there is usually a fair dollop of humour there too. Lighten up on yourself - we love you just the way you are!
Micro chipping is a really good way for your details to be accessed only by people who need to know. A tag that says "Please take to a vet if found - chipped" would help.
Catnapping can only be applauded in the case above, but I would of informed the authorities too.
Happy New Year everyone!

[Troy]

Spencer you're right - it's ironic that in some parts of the world cats are fighting what appears to be a losing battle against extinction while in others the rampant feral population is endangering native fauna. Here is Australia (and New Zealand) the wild/feral cats have no competition and therefore thrive while destroying small marsupials and flightless birds - sometimes they grow to huge sizes and are mistaken for "big cats".

[4 feline house]

Well, Troy, I was going to refute your position by dredging up the old well-known fact that feral cats generally live to only about two years old, so they obviously don't do will on their own. Then I saw Spencer's post refuting that fact. But, really, I guess unless someone starts tagging and tracking feral cats it's really only an educated guess. But I don't think anyone can argue the fact that feral cats are a problem, even to cat lovers. Not only do they contribute to the population problem, they are a nuisance when they spray around homes, get into garbage (because they don't all know how to hunt-that's a learned behavior taught by the mother), fight domestic pets, etc. And they may pose a slight rabies risk in areas where this disease is a problem. The area I live in has always been an active rabies site, and last year it was so severe it was showing up in domestic animals. I know this problem will never be solved, but the key to mitigating it is education, and although I'm largely preaching to the choir in this forum, there are many visitors to this site everyday who never post, and I would hate to think that an opportunity to educate would pass unused. Now look, I've gotten on my soapbox again!

[Troy]

I simply do not believe that feral/wild cats only live to 2 years. "Down under" these animals have a perfect environment. It is illegal to kill or trap them, there is no rabies, no natural predators (with the exception of the odd dog and dingo), lots of prey, and a good climate...what more do they need? Hunting for domestic cats is instinctive and does not need to be learnt, unlike their larger cousins.

I don't quite understand why you think you have got on your soapbox? As far as I can see, there are two main problems with feral cats. The first is that they are a result of mans "inhumanity" to our feline friends - in the form of bad management and abandonment. The second is that it threatens native fauna populations. Who can argue that these aren't problems?

[Troy]

Sorry 4 Feline House & SpencerTheLion,

I'm not trying to provoke anyone - I just have a great deal of admiration for the cats ability to survive. Ans as you point out Spencer, there must also be a gigantic difference between feral cats in urban areas as opposed to those in suburban and rural areas.

[carrie]

The feral cat situation in our area of the UK is seemingly small until you talk to vets in the area. There is a very large feral cat population living on the plain, well away from human interference. As more houses are built closer and closer to the edge of the plain the feral cats are spreading disease to the pet population and any cat not vacinated is more or less a dead cat ( there are only a very few people in the UK who would consider having indoor cats).
In our cities - the problem is as bad as anywhere.
A long term study has been done on a group of feral cats in Rome and if a cat survives kittenhood and the traffic it can expect a life of roughly six to eight years there.

[4 feline house]

Troy - don't worry, I didn't feel provoked at all! Even if I did, I love a good argument! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif I only mentioned my soapbox because a couple of times I've been accused of "flaming" because I spoke my mind! It was a kind of an "inside joke", nothing else.

You are probably right about the difference between exurban and urban/suburban ferals' lifespan differences. However, one of the reasons I always assumed feral cats have a hard life is the fact that they have 4-6 kittens per litter. Anyone who does even a cursory study of nature knows that the more young born (or hatched) at once, the less likely all survive to adulthood. But, that is admittedly only an assumption on my part.

Also, I agree with you, Spencer, about the risk of rabies in cats. I did say it was rare! But maybe it was less than I thought.

That's what I love about this site, always a chance to educate myself!

[4 feline house]

Spencer - about that Swiss referendum - is the intent to allow crimes against animals to be as severe as similar crimes against humans? Or do you know?

[wolflady]

Just thought I would put my 2 cents in about the declawing issue. My husband got his cat declawed (before we were married) and now the cat suffers from behavioral problems, possibly as a result of the surgury. It's hard to tell for sure if the surgury is what caused his problems, but a lot of research over the web indicates it as a possibility. After educating myself about what the surgury entails, I was appalled and will never ever get a cat declawed...especially if there is no need. My cat Marius wears his soft paws nail caps quite well! (I'm sure he feels so stylish in blue nails... http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif )
Check out www.softpaws.com. (http://www.softpaws.com.) It's a great alternative. Also, I volunteer at a cat rescue affiliated with alley cat allies. It's called Town Cats and we're located in Morgan Hill, CA. Check out www.towncats.org. (http://www.towncats.org.) We do not adopt our cats out to people who are going to declaw them. Thought you might find that interesting.

[wolflady]

Just thought I would put my 2 cents in about the declawing issue. My husband got his cat declawed (before we were married) and now the cat suffers from behavioral problems, possibly as a result of the surgury. It's hard to tell for sure if the surgury is what caused his problems, but a lot of research over the web indicates it as a possibility. After educating myself about what the surgury entails, I was appalled and will never ever get a cat declawed...especially if there is no need. My cat Marius wears his soft paws nail caps quite well! (I'm sure he feels so stylish in blue nails... http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif )
Check out www.softpaws.com. (http://www.softpaws.com.) It's a great alternative. Also, I volunteer at a cat rescue affiliated with alley cat allies. It's called Town Cats and we're located in Morgan Hill, CA. Check out www.towncats.org. (http://www.towncats.org.) We do not adopt our cats out to people who are going to declaw them. Thought you might find that interesting.

[Ginny]

I got Misty at when she was six weeks old. I took her to the vet to get all checked out and asked how soon I could get her declawed & fixed. The Vet said when she is 6 months old. Let me tell you before I got her declawed she was clawing everything. Her claws were out continually. We had blankets and towels over all the furniture so they would not get ruined. I had scars from her claws she was bad at clawing. We took her in and when we got her back you would not know that anything was wrong with her. She jumped and played. She still cimbs and jumps on things. Her toes are strong. She does not need her claws. I have a good vet and he loves cats and would not hurt animals unjustly. I think Misty is happy without them and she was young enough I don't think it bothered her much. I am happy too! One big happy family ;)

[thelmalu99]

You know what? This made me think of something. When I went to adopt my boys, the lady at the shelter kept mentioning over and over that she had declawed cats for adoption too. She wasn't pushy or anything, but she did mention the declaws an awful lot. I wasn't sure if it was because declaws are harder to find homes for or what :confused: ?? I would think that declawed cats would be easier to find homes for. For this reason, I insist on adopting cats that have not been declawed because I would never have this procedure done on one of my cats. It's better than having them end up where they will be declawed.

Am I making any sense?

I guess my question is, are declawed cats more likely to be adopted than cats that have not been declawed?

[4 feline house]

thelma-it would be my guess that she was tryig to prevent the procedure being done - in other words, if you were so inclined, she would have you consider kitties already declawed instead of risking having more procedures done - now, am I making sense? :D

[thelmalu99]

Oh, Ok. That makes sense.
It was only after I assured her that it DID NOT matter if the cats were declawed or not and my two previous cats had not been declawed because I would never do that, did she stop talking about the declaws.
Thanks. :)

[Lennie B.]

Thank you for your kind welcome to this discussion board. You're right- it is addictive. I am lucky enough to be able to share my life with (as well as my human family) two dogs and one cat. We've had the dogs for several years, but Vinny the cat joined us only last year. I never once considered getting him declawed, though I knew the potential for damage to furniture etc. existed. Now, eighteen months later, I see that he has left his signature on various pieces of upholstered furniture, and has modified the curtains in the livingroom so that they let in more light. (I was getting sick of those curtains anyway, and plan to replace them with heavy duty vertical blinds!) This in spite of the fact that I trim his claws once a month and have provided him with a substantial metre high carpet-covered scratching post, which he uses with great enthusiasm! I still wouldn't dream of having him or any other cat declawed- my reasoning is that, just as roses have thorns, cats have claws. It's worth mentioning that Vinny seems to be well aware that his "slashers" could hurt you- he's always very careful not to scratch you, even in play.

[yorkster]

my reasoning is that, just as roses have thorns, cats have claws.

:D :D ;)

I like that line!

Oh, and welcome Vinny!

[yorkster]

Ooops!!!
You're Lennie..........the cat is Vinny. Welcome BOTH of you. :cool:

[lynnestankard]

Thanks for finding this older thread - I'd never read it - it was before I joined Pet Talk - interesting reading through it now.
I think I Welcomed Lennie B. on the other thread - if I didn't - Welcome to the best Pet Talk site around. Be warned - you'll get addicted :eek: :eek:

Lynne

[sasvermont]

I know this might tick off lots of folks, but here we go.

I can think of so many irresponsible things to do and not do to animals, than declawing front paws. If it is done properly, it is not painful beyond the proceedure itself. As I said in a previous post, two of my RB cats had it done and they both were running around without complications the next day.

I would not do it now since my cats were trained to a post when I got them, and I spend the time to clip their nails. I am NOT a person who tortures pets. There are times when decisions need to be made that are personal ones. Would it be better to be yelling at, and wacking at a cat that constantly scratches things? Would it be better to confine it to one room without furniture? There are times when the owner of the pet gets to make a decision that works for them, and in the long run, works out better for the cat.

I have never let my cats wander and am very responsible for them. I can honestly say, that if I had adopted cats that were not able to be trained to posts etc. I would have them declawed, if necessary.

If you want to believe all those nasty stories about the torture, then do, but like I said, I have had the proceedure done in the past, and the cats were fine afterwards. They led happy go lucky lives and lived a long time too, constantly "pretend scratching" my rugs, furniture etc. ....

So that's my opinon, and I hope that folks understand that MANY people have this proceedure done to their cats. I could think of many more horrible, irresponsible things to do to cats.

Then End. (Remember, I am not a advocate for declawing, just the opposite, but I have been there, done that!)

Please don't make people feel guilty about making such a decision. I don't regret it at all.

[Former User]

Well said SasVermont, I have to say! :)