Do you ever feel bad for some breeds...

[wolfie]

I met the cutest pug the other day, but he was wheezing and panting the whole time I was petting him. His owner said he always does that.

I don't know, it doesn't seem right to breed dogs that have problems like that. I know their pushed in faces are adorable, but don't you feel bad for them? I mean, they can't breathe!

And there are some other breeds too, like how German Shepherds have hip problems (sorry - can't spell it! hip displacia or something...) because they were bred for sloping backs.

I know 'responsible' breeders are breeding for healthy dogs, but some dogs still have health problems because breeders are breeding to breed standards. Shouldn't health come first?

[Tonya]

English Bulldogs. They always seem so slow, like it's difficult to move, and they breathe so loud! The first time I babysat my friend's dog, I thought he was dying by the way he was breathing.

[heinz57_79]

You'd have to knock out almost every breed, tho. Small dogs like poodles, poms, doxies, etc have problems with their knees. Doxies have problems with their backs. Pugs, bulldogs, poms, poodles and others have problems with breathing and collapsed tracheas. large breeds have problems with hips and bloat. Cockers have problems with ears, eyes, skin, etc. There really isn't any breed that doesn't have a possibility of genetic problems. It's just one of those things, unfortunately.

If you think about it, humans are the same way. Trick knees, bad backs, allergies, bad eyesight, hearing loss, etc. :)

[Tonya]

Yeah, my mom has a cocker mix, his ears are horrible. It seems like his ears are constantly infected.

[wolfie]

Glad I'm not the only one!


Originally posted by heinz57_79
You'd have to knock out almost every breed, tho. ...

yeah. It's still kind of sad though. And not even mutts are free from genetic problems - Cocoa's a mix, and she has problems with her windpipe, and we have to use a harness to walk her.

I think dogs would be better off with out humans interfering with their genetics. :p

[cali]

honestly I feel sorry for every single show bred dog. because they are bred crippled on PURPOSE, they are bred to look pretty and thats it, who cares if they can move? show bred greyhounds would fall apart if they tried to run, police and anyone who used GSDs for work NEVER use show bred dogs, because they cant work, they are bred to stand on their hocks for some crazy reason er rather, but german GSDs have the ability to work and to walk. show bred labs drive me up the wall, those dogs are so fippin fat and bulky they they would have a heart attack if they had to do actual work. then their are all these breeds with smashed faces, everyone I know who does not know the names of the smashed faced breeds, describe them to me like this "those dog that look like they ran into a wall" I feel sorry for those. then their are corgies, bred now with such a long back its painful to look at. nearly all show bred dogs are bred to the extreme bulk so much that they could never do what they were bred to do. they are bred only for looks, for the most part show dogs are rather brainless but people delude themselves into thinking a their show dogs are ever so smart, and if given the chance they could work with the best. :rolleyes: right... sorry but give those show dog to the top working trainers and they cant get them very far at all. I truly feel sorry for any and all show bred dogs.

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by cali
honestly I feel sorry for every single show bred dog. because they are bred crippled on PURPOSE, they are bred to look pretty and thats it, who cares if they can move? show bred greyhounds would fall apart if they tried to run, police and anyone who used GSDs for work NEVER use show bred dogs, because they cant work, they are bred to stand on their hocks for some crazy reason er rather, but german GSDs have the ability to work and to walk. show bred labs drive me up the wall, those dogs are so fippin fat and bulky they they would have a heart attack if they had to do actual work. then their are all these breeds with smashed faces, everyone I know who does not know the names of the smashed faced breeds, describe them to me like this "those dog that look like they ran into a wall" I feel sorry for those. then their are corgies, bred now with such a long back its painful to look at. nearly all show bred dogs are bred to the extreme bulk so much that they could never do what they were bred to do. they are bred only for looks, for the most part show dogs are rather brainless but people delude themselves into thinking a their show dogs are ever so smart, and if given the chance they could work with the best. :rolleyes: right... sorry but give those show dog to the top working trainers and they cant get them very far at all. I truly feel sorry for any and all show bred dogs.

Thank you for insulting my show bred dog. He and I appreciate your feelings of sympathy.

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Aug/2004841733901324102316.jpg

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Aug/2004845314434708560885.jpg

Oh and he's been on sheep. Didn't do all that bad either. If we had more access to a place to train, I'd look into getting some titles on him.

Oh and he's my highest scoring obdience dog. Scored in the 190's. (Out of 200)

Thank you also for insulting my future whippet puppy, who will come from a breeder that shows.

One of her whippets.
http://www.windchasewhippets.com/Soleo's%20Kids/Pongo%20Jan%2019%20side.jpg

Oh and he also does what he was bred to do.
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Aug/2004841096390917860507.jpg

So before you go feeling all "sorry" for all show dogs do them a favor and don't.

Feel sorry for dogs that come from untested parents. Feel sorry for dogs that come from litters bred to show kids the "miracle of life". Feel sorry for dogs bred to make a buck.

But don't feel sorry for pretty dogs that CAN and DO work and come from genetically sound parents.

[sirrahved]

Shar peis with their severe eye problems/surgeries, wrinkle fold infections/irritations, allergies, etc.

As far as cats go, I hate that persians seem to have such yucky eye problems, too.

[sirrahved]

*sighs*

I wish I would have read before I put in my two cents.... why does everything have to be a fight?

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by cali
honestly I feel sorry for every single show bred dog. because they are bred crippled on PURPOSE, they are bred to look pretty and thats it, who cares if they can move? show bred greyhounds would fall apart if they tried to run, police and anyone who used GSDs for work NEVER use show bred dogs, because they cant work, they are bred to stand on their hocks for some crazy reason er rather, but german GSDs have the ability to work and to walk. show bred labs drive me up the wall, those dogs are so fippin fat and bulky they they would have a heart attack if they had to do actual work. then their are all these breeds with smashed faces, everyone I know who does not know the names of the smashed faced breeds, describe them to me like this "those dog that look like they ran into a wall" I feel sorry for those. then their are corgies, bred now with such a long back its painful to look at. nearly all show bred dogs are bred to the extreme bulk so much that they could never do what they were bred to do. they are bred only for looks, for the most part show dogs are rather brainless but people delude themselves into thinking a their show dogs are ever so smart, and if given the chance they could work with the best. :rolleyes: right... sorry but give those show dog to the top working trainers and they cant get them very far at all. I truly feel sorry for any and all show bred dogs.

Why are you always bashing show dogs? We don't ever bash your working dogs, so why bash other peoples dogs! This isn't the first time you have done this either and it's REALLY anoying, not to mention down right RUDE. Maybe the show dog's you have met are brain dead, but most aren't and I do NOT apreciate your comment about them being stupid!

My mom has a Sheltie who she got from a breeder. He was BRED to be a show DOG (not barbie thank you very much). He has TONS of herding instinct! I bet if I spent a couple of hours with him he would learn to herd like a pro. He has tried to herd cats, people, dog's, rats, and bunnies. He is REALY good to, so I do NOT apreciate you bashing him. Most breeders try to keep the herding instinct in there dog's and WILL use them for working.

I REALLY think you need to come off your "Border Collies are the best breed ever and all other breeds stink expessially if they acctually look nice and what the breed is now supposed to look like" campaign.

Ashley

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by Shelteez2
Feel sorry for dogs that come from untested parents. Feel sorry for dogs that come from litters bred to show kids the "miracle of life". Feel sorry for dogs bred to make a buck.

I agree. Not all show dogs are "barbies".

I know plenty of Collie breeders that breed their show dogs for show, and they also work them. It really starts to get annoying when you say the same thing over and over about show dogs. How would you like to have someone bashing your working dogs? There's no reason to feel sorry for them if they don't meet your standard expectations.

Think before you speak next time, please.

[FizzGiggs_Mommy]

Originally posted by GoldenRetrLuver
I agree. Not all show dogs are "barbies".




I agree 100% I dont no much about showing but I did here that some hunting dogs must compete in hunting trials before AKC will even let them in the show ring.

A friend of mine has a champion breed Black Lab that is a awesome hunting dog. Both of the parent are shown.

[primabella]

Originally posted by wolfie
I think dogs would be better off with out humans interfering with their genetics. :p

Things "au natural" are always better anyways, aren't they?

Tasha, I got to agree with everything you said.


You'd have to knock out almost every breed, tho

I was also just about to say this.. every breed comes with their health problems. I think as their owners, we should just take the initiative to properly care for our animals.. getting them checked out when needed, giving them the medications if needed, ect. I don't know what else we could do about it.

[KYS]

I agree, I think it is very unfortunate that many breeds
have been ruined by humans not being carefull and created many of the disease problems we see today.
Fortunately many of the breed clubs are working
with Vet. Universities in trying to repair this wrong by
Sending them DNA samples and money for their
research. By working closely with the Vet schools, someday
we might fix the wrong that we created.

As for Show dogs not being working dogs.
I do not agree with this. You can look at some of
pedigrees and not only will they have a CH next to their name but also CD, CDX etc.
So just because they look pretty doesn't mean
they can't work too.

JMHO

[K9soul]

Cali-

Some of the things you stated I tend to agree with, how it is a shame that so many show breeders are caught up in looks only. There are plenty out there like that, and they are not breeding for the betterment of the breed at all. I saw it first-hand when I was in the show world for awhile with my collie Willie. However, I saw other breeders who genuinely loved the breed and were careful to breed only well-tempered and healthy dogs. To lump them all together, indeed my opinion is always to lump ANY group of people together, is a vast generalization and prejudice. IMHO, when you close off any group of people and lump them all together, you are narrowing your mind and shutting out the ability to always learn more from different viewpoints and objectives.

Now what I am about to say is not said to be mean, but in hopes to make you think or maybe realize a few things..It is not usually in my nature to join or bring up more conflict, but I feel strongly that I need to get this out in the air.


for the most part show dogs are rather brainless but people delude themselves into thinking a their show dogs are ever so smart, and if given the chance they could work with the best.

Did you truly ever expect that this statement wouldn't cause outrage to the people who have, plan to have, or have had show-bred dogs whom they love dearly and take pride in as much as you do your dogs? This is an attitude I have seen often and I admit it has greatly irked me more than once. You have seemed genuinely hurt and not understanding before as to why you get few responses to your posts, but I honestly believe this is why, because this attitude you carry about your type of dog versus other people's is one of superiority. You dismiss or insult the dogs that are the whole world to some people here. It is one thing to address or disagree with the way some breeds are bred which cause them health problems, and quite another to insult the dog's intelligence and worth, as well as the people who love them. It is an attitude I have seen too in the show world by some people, and I can tell you nothing turns other people off quicker than that attitude, and when that happens you reach a point where very few listen to what you have to say.

I'm sure I have said more than enough now, but I wanted to say to wolfie not to feel bad about starting this particular thread because this is something that has been building up for awhile now. I very nearly broke down and said something the last time a condescending comment was made about a type of dog considered to have little value. As much as I hate to say anything that might be hurtful, sometimes it's the only way for someone to find out that what they are saying or how they are acting is offensive and maybe even hurtful to others.

[lovemyshiba]

My brainless show bred dog would like to thank you for the insult.
His name is Kito, and he was bred to show. Unfortunately, the woman who owned him got cancer, and was unable to keep him, and that's when we came along.
As far as him still doing his job, well, shibas are hunters--rodent hunters to be exact. Not much of a market for that in my backyard, but you can bet when there's a chipmunk or a mole--he will dig and stand by that hole until it comes out:p

Anyway, he doesn't care what anyone thinks, he knows he's the best!!!!!!:D

As far as the original topic goes, yes, I feel bad for certain breeds, and for me those seem to be ones like pugs or bulldogs that are prone to the breathing problems. I would love to have a pug or a bulldog, but I couldn't. I think it would upset me to hear them wheezing like that.

[ParNone]

Personally I think there is some merit to the idea that there's differences between show dogs and working dogs. It's probably not a coincidence that most of the working ranch/farm dogs seem to be either Border Collies, Australian Shepherds or Australian Cattle Dogs, not Collies or Shelties. I wouldn't however take it anywhere near the extreme that Cali states it. Oz is from a show dog breeder and he's as smart as a whip. I get comments from his agility trainers, about his smartness and asking me if he's from working stock. I've no doubt I could train him to do whatever was necessary on a farm. The caveat though is that we'd both have to be taking a midday nap. :) I don't see the drive and energy in him that I would expect from a working dog, which is great in my mind. He's a suburban dog. I couldn't live with him, if he had that level of drive. Most of us would probably be driven insane by actual working dogs.

I do get a lil' concerned though, when the main focus of Collie breeders seems to be how their head looks. I think if we really want to see more focus put on ability not just looks, the show format needs to be changed. Maybe it needs to be more like a beauty pageant, where there's a talent section. :) So dogs would get so many points for looks and structure, but then also points for demonstrating their ability to perform their actual function, like herding. It'd make dog shows more fun to watch IMO. Ah well, just a thought.

Par...

[Smilla]

I consider myself pretty Pro-Mutt because of this issue, but there are many breeds that I think are just beautiful. I was saddened when I saw my parents Corgi struggling to get up, though--she's got hip problems. Apparently she's doing better with glucosamine, but I doubt her problems ever go away completely.

What bugs me regarding show dogs is that I've sometimes wondered if some owners don't really think of them as companions, but as trophies. I am NOT talking about anyone on PetTalk, but people I've seen on television, etc. (Like the Weimeraner owners in Best In Show! :) ) I hope I'm wrong and that these people have just had their "show faces" on.

[Smilla]

That Whippet in the picture above is just gorgeous, for example, but it's back looks a little sloped to me. Do they have the same issues as GSDs?

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by cali
show bred labs drive me up the wall, those dogs are so fippin fat and bulky they they would have a heart attack if they had to do actual work.

Before you bash a breed, actually learn more about the breed, so you know what you are talking about.

There are different types of Labradors- English and American. American labs tend to me a little smaller and more lean. English labs are larger than American and WAY more stocky and bulky and their heads are very "blocky" compaired to American labs. Labradors are SUPPOSED to be fairly chunky and bulky with a nice block head- that is a perfect Lab, not a little itty bitty slim jim that looks like a black, yellow, or chocolate whippet. Have you ever touched a "fat bulky ready to have a heart attack" Lab? That "fat and bulky" lab is 95% muscle, to help them run 150 yards to retrieve game, and 5% fat to keep them warm in the 20 degree water. They are "fat and bulky" for a reason. Now the owner who gives their lab 5 buckets of food a day, so the Labs stomach is swaying on the ground- that is another story. Just about every single show lab is used in the field, either doing actual hunting or field trials. Labs were first and formost bred to be used in the field, not in the ring, so of course Labs in the ring will be found in the field. If you go to every single Lab breeder website you will see that their lab puppies have been introduced to water, gunfire, live birds, and started work in the field- even the ones that are ment to go in the show ring. Labradors' drive to hunt and work will never be taken over to look prissy in the ring. Every single Labrador has the drive to hunt and work- in or out of the ring.

[wolflady]

Interesting question. Simply stated, yes, I do feel bad for some breeds. I worked at a vet hospital for a little over a year, and literally all the dogs that came in with problems were pure-bred dogs.
If you think about it, a lot of pure-bred dogs came about by people breeding "genetic mutations". Seems to me that a mutation shouldn't be encouraged at the suffering of the animals. Pugs and english bulldogs, and well, any smashed-in-face animal are an excellent examples. Now, don't think I'm bashing pure-bred dogs, I just feel sorry for the ones that have genetically chronic problems. I saw a lot at the hospital, and some things so sad I'll never forget. :(

[cali]

to be honest I really dont care if I insulted show bred dogs, I am against showing and I will NEVER agree with it. I have seen and know many show bred dogs first hand, as well as their working counterparts and every single one of the working counterparts are better then the show versians. I have no doubt that show bred dogs can work, but they can NOT work to the working dog standerd, that is what people delude themselves into thinking, as for the intelligance issue, that was my moms comment, I do have a show bred dog, Blair is totally show bred. oh he learns fast, but when it comes to figering things out fr himself he is as useless as it gets. I also do know plenty of other show bred dogs, that I do like, but when it comes to intelligance the working counter parts are smarter. lots of show dogs compete in AKC and other KCs feild, herding, etc.. events, and they do well.. they are also competing against other show bred dogs, try sticking them in a real trial with a bunch of working bred dogs, and most will fail miserably. their ARE plenty of top working trainers who have taken on show dogs and they were not able to get the show dogs very far. by the way obediance titles are NOT working titles, and I dont consider KC working titles to have any merit whatsoever. for example top BC herding trainers have taken on barbie collies and no amount of training was able to get them past nursery in an ISDS herding trial. meanwhile their working bred border collie puppys were already good enugh to compete in open. face it, the show breed and the working breed of ANY breed are completly different, both in looks or ability.

by the way yellowlablover I HAVE done plenty of research on labs. I am hardly making things up out of the blue.

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by cali
by the way yellowlablover I HAVE done plenty of research on labs. I am hardly making things up out of the blue.

Congrats. http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/Smileys/classic/party.gif Here is a cookie http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/Smileys/classic/cookie.gif. :)

[Desert Arabian]

I feel sorry for a couple of breeds, mainly ones with really short leggies, it has to be so hard to walk and run, it looks so silly to see them running around zippy.

Also, ones with long hair that covers their eyes- how can they see, LOL!? I also feel bad for breeds with really thick hair, kept in hot climates, where they have to be so hot- the same for short haired dogs kept in cold climates. When we were in Texas I saw an Alaskan Malamute, it was over 100F outside, I felt so bad for the dog. :(

[K9soul]

I'm not really going to go into every specific of this whole issue, because as I first stated there are parts I agree with. What I will never agree with or understand is the lumping together of a group or breed or species etc. etc. and making some broad generalizing judgement on the entire group.

The bottom line and my point is, you may very well not care in the least if you insult show-bred dogs, because you see it as stating a "fact" about them. But how others see it is you are calling their beloved children 'brainless' and 'lesser.' The fact is you could have stated that you preferred working bred dogs over show-bred without then flinging an insult out that touches so many, thus hurting the PEOPLE who have these dogs.

I'd really try to further explain, but I don't think it is going to get me anywhere but frustrated. It is nearly impossible to argue with someone who has closed their mind to anyone's viewpoint but their own.

[heinz57_79]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
I feel sorry for a couple of breeds, mainly ones with really short leggies, it has to be so hard to walk and run, it looks so silly to see them running around zippy.

Also, ones with long hair that covers their eyes- how can they see, LOL!? I also feel bad for breeds with really thick hair, kept in hot climates, where they have to be so hot- the same for short haired dogs kept in cold climates. When we were in Texas I saw an Alaskan Malamute, it was over 100F outside, I felt so bad for the dog. :(

I dunno.. some of those low-riders can run like hell! LoL You should see Charlie and CHloe when they're down in the wash off leash... ZZZZZZOOOOOOOOMMMMMM!!! LOL :D

I used to feel sorry for the huskies, etc here in AZ, until I became a groomer. Then I learned that a dog's coat acts like an insulator. Keeps them cool in summer, warm in winter. It's the thick coated breeds that get shaved down that I feel sorry for. No protection from buggies, the sun, stuff like that.

About this whole show bred/vs whatever.... I don't think it's right for anyone to knock a type of dog for ANY reason. We all have our preferences. I, for one, don't like cockers. (No offense! :) ) But I would never tell anyone their cocker is stupid, or bad, or shouldn't be bred. EVER! That would be like telling someone who's child is a model that it's wrong. It's insulting, and rather misinformed. To make a generalisation like "show bred dogs are bad" is wrong, and to a lot of people, very hurtful. It would be like someone with show dogs saying "mutts are wrong, they do nothing to improve any breed". There are bad breeders and good breeders, in and out of the show ring. I don't think the subject should have even come up, knowing it would upset a LOT of people on PT who do not deserve to be put down like that.

A little common courtesy, if you would! :p

[K9soul]

Well said heinz57. I think you put into words better what I was trying to say :o

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by heinz57_79
I dunno.. some of those low-riders can run like hell! LoL You should see Charlie and CHloe when they're down in the wash off leash... ZZZZZZOOOOOOOOMMMMMM!!! LOL :D


Aww, that would be so cute to see. I wish I could see that. I bet they are fast little boogers. :p

[heinz57_79]

If Charlie didn't have ADD he'd be great at herding and/or agility. So would Chloe cuz she can JUMP! The dog park is fun too... when you get a line of pups running Charlie is right there with all the JRTs and italian greyhounds, holding his own! LoL

[Tonya]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
When we were in Texas I saw an Alaskan Malamute, it was over 100F outside, I felt so bad for the dog. :(

Having huskies and all, I talked to my vet about that. Their undercoat works both ways...it traps the heat or the cold in. They can actually do fine in hot weather.

[Tonya]

Originally posted by wolflady
Interesting question. Simply stated, yes, I do feel bad for some breeds. I worked at a vet hospital for a little over a year, and literally all the dogs that came in with problems were pure-bred dogs.
If you think about it, a lot of pure-bred dogs came about by people breeding "genetic mutations". Seems to me that a mutation shouldn't be encouraged at the suffering of the animals. Pugs and english bulldogs, and well, any smashed-in-face animal are an excellent examples. Now, don't think I'm bashing pure-bred dogs, I just feel sorry for the ones that have genetically chronic problems. I saw a lot at the hospital, and some things so sad I'll never forget. :(

I don't want to stereotype...but what I can say is that I grew up with mutts, and my mutts never had to see the vet. Now, I have had Teddy (who was bred well) and Sarah (who wasn't), they were my first pure-breds. And both of them have had health problems from the get go.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by cali
to be honest I really dont care if I insulted show bred dogs, I am against showing and I will NEVER agree with it.



You just insulted a large part of dog owners here and their dogs, and you do not care? WOW.... you're a wonderful person!!

[lovemyshiba]

I don't think the original poster (wolfie) intended this to turn into a show-bred vs. working dogs thread. The question was merely asked, if we feel bad for certain breeds due to their health issues.

If certain little trolls want to try to turn us against each other and start a fight, that's their problem. Obviously they have a lot of learning and growing up to do.

And YLL---could I get one of those cookies????:p

[K9soul]

Originally posted by Smilla
That Whippet in the picture above is just gorgeous, for example, but it's back looks a little sloped to me. Do they have the same issues as GSDs?

As far as I know whippets and greyhounds are naturally built with the sloping hindquarters, the GSD slope is different.. I'm not sure how to describe but in some of the AKC shepherds I've seen, it looks like their butts/back legs are dragging the ground, when they walk it just looks really odd and unnatural. I haven't personally researched any particular problems with greyhounds/whippets but I have never really heard much about health issues with them in the way I have about some breeds.

I agree the conversation got quite a ways off topic. I know for myself, some of the things I've said I have wanted to say for awhile now and just never got up the nerve to before now.

In my brief time in the dog show world, the people were just as varied as in any other organization. You had your haughty, snooty, better-than-thou types and the down-to-earth true dog lover types. I saw some treat their dogs like objects and others who had all their dogs in the house with them sleeping all over their furniture because they were family members. I knew some that had no qualms about inbreeding if it would produce a winning dog in the ring and others who were as horrified at that as I would be.

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by lovemyshiba
And YLL---could I get one of those cookies????:p

SUUURE! Since you own a Lab and know what you are talking about...you can have 1/2 a dozen. All I have are chocolate chip, sorry I don't have a variety.

http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/Smileys/classic/cookie.gif http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/Smileys/classic/cookie.gif http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/Smileys/classic/cookie.gif http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/Smileys/classic/cookie.gif http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/Smileys/classic/cookie.gif http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/Smileys/classic/cookie.gif

[BitsyNaceyDog]

Originally posted by heinz57_79
About this whole show bred/vs whatever.... I don't think it's right for anyone to knock a type of dog for ANY reason. We all have our preferences. I, for one, don't like cockers. (No offense! :) ) But I would never tell anyone their cocker is stupid, or bad, or shouldn't be bred. EVER! That would be like telling someone who's child is a model that it's wrong. It's insulting, and rather misinformed. To make a generalisation like "show bred dogs are bad" is wrong, and to a lot of people, very hurtful. It would be like someone with show dogs saying "mutts are wrong, they do nothing to improve any breed". There are bad breeders and good breeders, in and out of the show ring. I don't think the subject should have even come up, knowing it would upset a LOT of people on PT who do not deserve to be put down like that.

A little common courtesy, if you would! :p

Beautifully stated, I agree 100%.

As for the original question- yes I do feel bad for some breeds, but I feel worse for dogs who are poorly cared for. For example a shih tzu whose owner does not keep up with their grooming will be much more prone to eye infections then a shih tzu whose owner kept their face well trimmed.
I do know what you mean tho, wolfie. I had always felt bad for pugs and bostons because of their little faces. I fostered Nacey, the pug in my signature, and she luckily doesnen't really have any breathing problems. (side note: I'm getting Nacey back this week, for good.) We do walk her on a harness tho.

[binka_nugget]

I feel bad for some breeds but.. I think part of it lies with research from the owner. I know I'd never buy an American bred GSD. If I were to buy one, I'd have it either imported from Germany from working lines or find a local breeder who breeds under SV rules and breeds with working lines. I've run into a few breeders who've been breeding for 20+ years and have never or only had one or two dogs with health problems.

As for the show dogs comment.. I can't completely disagree. I think there is a big difference in some breeds. But, not a lot of us can change what breeders are breeding for so why insult pet talkers if there's nothing in the outcome except hurt feelings?

[Toller 42]

My mom's friend has a Toller and a border-collie both are from breeders and their parents are show dogs! they are not barbies!
the border-collie is red/white and she is definitley not stupid and she herds very well, the Toller is a great retriever and is very good at tolling the ducks to shore.

[lute]

Originally posted by cali
honestly I feel sorry for every single show bred dog. because they are bred crippled on PURPOSE, they are bred to look pretty and thats it, who cares if they can move? show bred greyhounds would fall apart if they tried to run, police and anyone who used GSDs for work NEVER use show bred dogs, because they cant work, they are bred to stand on their hocks for some crazy reason er rather, but german GSDs have the ability to work and to walk. show bred labs drive me up the wall, those dogs are so fippin fat and bulky they they would have a heart attack if they had to do actual work. then their are all these breeds with smashed faces, everyone I know who does not know the names of the smashed faced breeds, describe them to me like this "those dog that look like they ran into a wall" I feel sorry for those. then their are corgies, bred now with such a long back its painful to look at. nearly all show bred dogs are bred to the extreme bulk so much that they could never do what they were bred to do. they are bred only for looks, for the most part show dogs are rather brainless but people delude themselves into thinking a their show dogs are ever so smart, and if given the chance they could work with the best. :rolleyes: right... sorry but give those show dog to the top working trainers and they cant get them very far at all. I truly feel sorry for any and all show bred dogs.
that's just rude! my show dog has pulled a sled or two and is a wonderful champion showdog. i think you are jumping at showdogs all the time because you just don't like the breeding. i think the people you need to be upset at are the people that breed for the "miracle", not us.

here is my beautiful showbaby
http://www.sheairsiberians.com/photos/mata.jpg
here she is with one of her pups
http://www.sheairsiberians.com/photos/rose5.jpg
and just so ya know. the red dog in the pic is having a litter of pups at the end of this month. both parents and grand parents are champions.

[chrissycat21]

Not all show dogs are bad. There are some that are pampered almost too much for their own good (but everyone pampers their pooches too much, right?) but they aren't stupid. My friend has a dog that came from a line of champion collies, but decided not to show him. He is an extremely smart dog and isn't lazy or anything. What I don't like are show dog breeders that get caught up in making sure their dogs look the best, not caring about temperment, etc. (I have seen some breeders like that)

-Chrissy

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by cali
honestly I feel sorry for every single show bred dog. because they are bred crippled on PURPOSE, they are bred to look pretty and thats it, who cares if they can move? show bred greyhounds would fall apart if they tried to run, police and anyone who used GSDs for work NEVER use show bred dogs, because they cant work, they are bred to stand on their hocks for some crazy reason er rather, but german GSDs have the ability to work and to walk. show bred labs drive me up the wall, those dogs are so fippin fat and bulky they they would have a heart attack if they had to do actual work. then their are all these breeds with smashed faces, everyone I know who does not know the names of the smashed faced breeds, describe them to me like this "those dog that look like they ran into a wall" I feel sorry for those. then their are corgies, bred now with such a long back its painful to look at. nearly all show bred dogs are bred to the extreme bulk so much that they could never do what they were bred to do. they are bred only for looks, for the most part show dogs are rather brainless but people delude themselves into thinking a their show dogs are ever so smart, and if given the chance they could work with the best. :rolleyes: right... sorry but give those show dog to the top working trainers and they cant get them very far at all. I truly feel sorry for any and all show bred dogs.

Man, cali, you're just a one trick pony, aren't you? Can you EVER make a post without it being about how HORRIBLE "show" dogs are and how WONDERFUL "working" dogs are? Give it a rest already.

Every time you post this endless chip-on-my-shoulder tirade of yours, the only things you end up doing are (1) alienating about 90% of the people on this site and (2) looking completely ignorant and uninformed. Because if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that they vast majority of "show" herding, working. terrier and sporting dogs also have some working title. Your closed-minded and blatantly incorrect retoric is just that ... INCORRECT. Do some research before you profess to be an expert on something.



to be honest I really dont care if I insulted show bred dogs, I am against showing and I will NEVER agree with it.

My, what a charming, polite and kind young lady you are. NOT. If you don't care that you insulted just about every member of this message board, then perhaps it's time for you to move along off of this site and find one more compatible with your views. If you aren't a fan of conformation showing, fine. To each his/her own. No one is saying we all to agree. But there is no need to be rude and insulting to others on this board. Good thing for you I'm not the administrator of this site, or you would have been banned for that remark. I don't see anyone CONSTANTLY criticizing your dogs, or your hobby. I'm sure there are plenty of people on here that think agility is a silly waste of time and that "working" border collies are ugly ... but those people obviously are mature and polite enough to keep those opinions to themselves. Maybe you should learn to do the same.


And, to keep to topic, I do feel sorry for the breeds with very flat faces. It's hard for some of them to breathe, exercise and tolerate extreme temperatures

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
Man, cali, you're just a one trick pony, aren't you? Can you EVER make a post without it being about how HORRIBLE "show" dogs are and how WONDERFUL "working" dogs are? Give it a rest already.

Every time you post this endless chip-on-my-shoulder tirade of yours, the only things you end up doing are (1) alienating about 90% of the people on this site and (2) looking completely ignorant and uninformed. Because if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that they vast majority of "show" herding, working. terrier and sporting dogs also have some working title. Your closed-minded and blatantly incorrect retoric is just that ... INCORRECT. Do some research before you profess to be an expert on something.




My, what a charming, polite and kind young lady you are. NOT. If you don't care that you insulted just about every member of this message board, then perhaps it's time for you to move along off of this site and find one more compatible with your views. If you aren't a fan of conformation showing, fine. To each his/her own. No one is saying we all to agree. But there is no need to be rude and insulting to others on this board. Good thing for you I'm not the administrator of this site, or you would have been banned for that remark. I don't see anyone CONSTANTLY criticizing your dogs, or your hobby. I'm sure there are plenty of people on here that think agility is a silly waste of time and that "working" border collies are ugly ... but those people obviously are mature and polite enough to keep those opinions to themselves. Maybe you should learn to do the same.


And, to keep to topic, I do feel sorry for the breeds with very flat faces. It's hard for some of them to breathe, exercise and tolerate extreme temperatures

http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-033.gifhttp://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-033.gifhttp://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-033.gif

[lovemyshiba]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-033.gifhttp://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-033.gifhttp://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-033.gif

I'll second that!!

Thanks for the cookies--chocolate chip are my favorite kind!!!!!!

[sammy101]

wow! your such a nice person cali!:mad: i've been to small and big dog shows and they all seem very happy and in very good shape,and show labs are never fat,they are very well built and lots a muscle.i think that all dogs all beautiful in there own way,mutts and purebreds,and working border collies are just as beautiful as show ones!boy,you insulted alot of people,and you should be keeping your opinions(especially like the ones you said) to your self,and not hurt and insult people!!!:mad: :mad:

and you dont care that you insulted people about how there show dogs?????

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
. and that "working" border collies are ugly ... but those people obviously are mature and polite enough to keep those opinions to themselves. [B]

I, personally, have ALWAYS thought "working" BC's aren't the pretiest things, some of them look like cross breeds and nothing like what the breed is supposed to look like today. BUT, that is MY opinion. Cali- do I tell you your dog's are ugly and brain dead? NOPE. So don't call mine ugly and brain dead, expessially when you don't know them.


Originally posted by ParNone
[B] It's probably not a coincidence that most of the working ranch/farm dogs seem to be either Border Collies, Australian Shepherds or Australian Cattle Dogs, not Collies or Shelties.

Also, Par, just because they don't use Shelties or Collies as much any more doesn't mean they aren't as good as any other hearding dog.

Ashley

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by lovemyshiba
I'll second that!!

Thanks for the cookies--chocolate chip are my favorite kind!!!!!!


And i'll third... but I want some cookies too! :p

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by lovemyshiba

If certain little trolls want to try to turn us against each other and start a fight, that's their problem. Obviously they have a lot of learning and growing up to do.

And YLL---could I get one of those cookies????:p


And stay in school, learn proper English, and MANNER's would be at the top of the ''ahem'' list...

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-033.gifhttp://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-033.gifhttp://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-033.gif

I will nth it!!!!

And Cali, I would think twice about calling people's dogs brainless. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

:mad:
And I am saying this b/c I have seen your behaivor all over the board like this. This instance is just one of a zillion.

[tikeyas_mom]

yeah i feel bad for chinese crested dogs

[Toller 42]

Why are so many threads lately turning into arguments?

[Desert Arabian]

because little kids these days dont know how to reply with out offending people by dissing their dogs.

[wolfie]

please stop. I have asked Karen to close this thread. There's no reason to insult anyone, no matter who started it.

[shais_mom]

wolfie this would have been a wonderful discussion if someone wouldn't have started calling people's dogs names. I am sorry it turned into an argument but people should THINK before they TYPE. myself included.

[anna_66]

I used to feel sorry for the huskies, etc here in AZ, until I became a groomer. Then I learned that a dog's coat acts like an insulator. Keeps them cool in summer, warm in winter. It's the thick coated breeds that get shaved down that I feel sorry for. No protection from buggies, the sun, stuff like that.
I used to feel that way too. But both my girls with all their hair will go outside on a 90degree day and lay in the sun:eek:
Goofy girls!

Please don't have her close this thread over one persons comments.

[cloverfdx]

I too have noticed Shayna bashing show dogs all the time and have been iritated by some/alot of comments. Although i would NEVER own a show dog i do not "Hate" them. Each to their own though.



I, personally, have ALWAYS thought "working" BC's aren't the pretiest things, some of them look like cross breeds and nothing like what the breed is supposed to look like today.

Elvis thanks you from the bottom of his precious working dog heart for that, because they are not bred for "Looks", if working dogs were bred for looks they would no longer have the ability to work as well as purely working dogs. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/cloverfdx/AAElvis2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/cloverfdx/AAElvis5.jpg
In my eyes he is perfect. :D

And yes i do feel sorry for short muzzled dogs, a friend of mine has two Pugs and the breathing problems they have is shocking during Summer.

[dogs_4_me]

I feel worse for dogs that are living on the streets, or ones who have abusive owners, most show dogs are loved incredibily!

[nibblets]

Dogs are no different than we humans. Some of us have royal lineage and some of are just folks. Some of us are healthy and some of us have medical issues. Some of us are smart and some of us not so bright. But in the great scheme of things...aren't we all just humans? And aren't our dogs all just canines, and our cats just felines. And at the root of it all, don't we all just need to be loved and cared for regardless of our lineage, health or IQ?
The sad part is, whether we are human, canine, feline...or whatever, we are not always judged that way.

I do feel for certain breeds in their proclivity to certain conditions. I had a cocker with chronic ear problems. I have a bichon with cataracts forming in his eyes. My sister in law had a mini doxie with a bad back. My friend's boxer had tumors.
I dont' guess it is much different than people of various ethincity having conditions exclusive to, or more so than others. ie; sickle cell in African Americans as one example. I have known a couple of people who have been afflicted with sickle cell and it is sad to see them have to deal with it. But they do deal with it, because thats the hand they have been dealt in life. Thats why we, whose pets have conditions, take care of them and do our best to make them feel better.

I am not pro or anti show. I am pro taking good care of our pets, regardless of whether they are Champions or mutts.