who here is against breeders (all animals?)

[Snuggles]

Just would like to know, also share your opinons.

[Amber]

The only breeders I'm against are BYBs. Good breeders are good, because they try to improve the breed's health and so on.

I got Elvis from a good breeder. :)

[Kfamr]

I'm not 100% against, although I would love to see people stop breeding until there is no need for animal shelters.

[MariaM]

I'm 1/2 1/2 because it is better to buy from a breeder than a pet shop. BYB however, I'm against.

[primabella]

I am for responsible breeding only. BYB can obviously be done without. Breeders are very important, as long as they don't abuse their positions.

[luckies4me]

I breed fancy rats and take my job seriously. I do however feel that BYB's need to take a step down. Even in the rat fancy there are people I consider BYB's and for very good reason. I focus on health and temperament and stress the importance for EVERY future rat owner to either get their rat from a responsible breeder or rescue. Our goal is to do away with pet shop rats and rescue rats and leave only sweet, social, healthy breeder stock to choose from. Ones that do not die at 5 months due to Myco, get tumors or show major aggression.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by primabella
I am for responsible breeding only. BYB can obviously be done without. Breeders are very important, as long as they don't abuse their positions.

I agree.

[sirrahbed]

What is BYB?

[kimlovescats]

BYB is backyard breeder.... meaning someone who breeds continually without proper care and only in it to make a buck! :(

[sirrahbed]

Ok now I get it! Thanks Kim:)

[jazzcat]

It took me minute to figure out what BYB meant too. I think they should be stopped completely!

[DogLover9501]

Originally posted by primabella
I am for responsible breeding only. BYB can obviously be done without. Breeders are very important, as long as they don't abuse their positions.

I agree too.

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I'm not 100% against, although I would love to see people stop breeding until there is no need for animal shelters.

I agree.

To say one is "against breeding all animals" is, of course, a very over-simplified statement ... as obviously someone must allow domestic animals to breed, or they would all become extinct.

However, I agree with Kfamr ... there is a major pet overpopulation crisis right now. About 99.9% of people breeding animals do not have the knowledge, ethics or morals to adequately do so, and should stop. Until every domestic animal has a good home waiting for it upon its birth, there are too many animals being bred.

[teenster3]

I voted "against" it because there are already so many unwanted & unhomed pets in the world today!
I'm sure there are genuinely good people that do breed, but why? I'd rather go to a shelter myself. Yes, both of my dogs are purebred & I love them dearly but, my 1st dog was a mutt & he was just as wonderful!!!!!!! I don't care what kind of dogs I have as long as I have them until I die!

[jenluckenbach]

I am against (about 90%). While I realize that some breeding programs NEED to exist, I STILL don't think even reputable breeders should be doing it while so many animals DIE.


Every animal that is produced by a breeder (even a totally responsible breeder) that goes on to find its forever home takes away the possibility that a shelter or homeless animal (that has already been born due to irresponsible people) will NOT find its forever home and will more than likely die. There are only SO many homes available. The cycle must STOP!

[catnapper]

Like the othes, I am not totally agaianst breeding as a "career" --- I say "career" because I think only those truly dedicated to the advancement of the breed, with the animals health and welfare utmost in their mind, should be able to breed and profit from it. I think that they should need to take a test and become certified/licensed and then have periodic checks from the state to ensure health and safety standards are mainatined. Those that do not have the certification/license would not be able to sell their animals for profit (I understand that if a person's pet had puppies that you ned to sell them for something to pay for vet care and to ensure the person accepting the pup is ready for the respinsiblity the puppy will bring.)

This certification/license would be good foor everyone: the breeders (they would no longer have to defend themselves to others) the pet owners (they can rest in confidence that their pet was bred in a healthful environment) and the state (they would receive the fees generated from the license, fines from health violations... etc.)

Did I make sense? Thats just something I've been thinking about for a while. Hopefully, this would put BYB out of business. If they continued to breed and got caught charging more than what htey needed to cover their costs, and/or the animals were in miserable conditions, they would be able to pay outrageous fine and do jail time.

[stacwase]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I'm not 100% against, although I would love to see people stop breeding until there is no need for animal shelters.

Ditto.

[cocker_luva]

im for breeders.

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I'm not 100% against, although I would love to see people stop breeding until there is no need for animal shelters.

I agree with this.

Ash

[primabella]

I think a good idea would be to have a decreased amount of responsible breeders until shelters empty out. I mean, around here ther are about 5 poodle breeders. I really don't think you need that many to keep the breed going. :(

[Snuggles]

I just asked mainly because whenever I put a post of my "rabbits for sale" everyone has to jump on it. I am not a backyard breeder, I breed for the betterment of the breed & I show in open & 4-H. There are no animal shelters that have rabbits in them as far as I've found out, & in the state of oregon, they dont enthunzize(sp?) so i am against breeders who just breed to make money, but I raise rabbits for a specific purpose. & i make sure that everyone of those that leves my barn has a good home. Beucase if i was to raise rabbits just to raise money, thats just plain stupid, I raise them to acheive my goal of winning. Most of the time i wont breed the doe unless I feel i cant sell them, have a use for them, or if i dont get reserves.
http://hometown.aol.com/ilm1989/images/im000839.jpg

[jenluckenbach]

When I was young I too raised rabbits for breeding and showing. We did what we could to better the breed and I learned a lot about genetics in the process. BUT, I would not go back to doing it today now that I have learned about the severe over population of animals and the extreme numbers that are put to death each year. (and yes pet rabbits are among the statistics). I still do not condemn your actions (so please do not be offended) but think about this (I will use dogs as an example....)

50 states in the union..............
uncountable cities in each state.....................
if as few as 20 (an extremely low number) breeders exist in each state, that is 1,000 breeders.
If each breeder produced 2 litters a year (an extremely low number of litters) that would be 2,000 littes of puppies a year......
If in each litter there are 5 puppies (many breeds would have more) that is a total of at least 10,000 dogs born in one year that need to find placement.
Add to that the dogs bred in Canada, Europe, South America, Mexico, Australia...................and you easliy have 1,000,000 dogs born in a year.
And then there is NEXT year....................

Then add to that all the people who simply do not neuter their pets and have an accidental litter or 2 or 3.................
And add to that those who think they can make money breeding their pets (BYB) and have a litter or 2 or 3...................

When will it stop? Each breeder thinks that what they are doing is VITAL to the survival of the breed. But 50,000 poodle breeders alone are not necessary for the breed's survival!!!

[Kfamr]

I just did a search on Petfinder and there are 75+ bunnies near you in shelters and rescues. 2877 on petfinder all together.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Snuggles
There are no animal shelters that have rabbits in them as far as I've found out, & in the state of oregon, they dont enthunzize(sp?)

I am in Oregon and we DO euthanize animals, including rabbits regularly. Our local Humane Society, Greenhill, has several rabbits there often, and while they do not always euthanize if they have crowded conditions they will. They try not to though.

While there are many many homeless pets, and it saddens me I do not think us breeders who are trying to make the animals betters should have to stop just because careless idiots out there. Rats REALLY need work, and a LOT! There are tons and tons of rats who die so early, have major agression issues etc. We NEED more responsible breeders for rats, we really really do. I cannot stand to see rat breeders breeding does at 6 weeks old, and having litter after litter after litter, none of the babies being social and then the mom dies at 8 months due to a mammary tumor and developed severe agression during pregnancy and nursing etc. While we do strive for the perfect show rats, temperament and healthy ALWAYS come first. There are many rat breeders out there who just do not give a damn one way or the other, but I will not stop breeding because people need healthy well adjusted animals, not pets who bite every time you go near them and are in and out of different sicknesses. No pet owner deserves a pet like that and it's our goal to make their pet owning experience as positive as possible. The focus should be on those who exploit the animals, not those who really care to improve the overall animal.

[Snuggles]

& I guess this is where peoples opinons differ.

[dukedogsmom]

May be some opinions but some facts were also just stated. I think it's wrong to breed just to win prizes and such. To me, it sounds like that's why you mainly do it. I don't agree with that at all and that is my opinion.

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by jenluckenbach
Each breeder thinks that what they are doing is VITAL to the survival of the breed.

What I don't understand is Shleter dog's, rats, cats, bunnies hamsters etc. are JUST as good as the ones bred by breeders. WHY do they need to better the breed? Why do we absolutly NEED specific breeds of everything?? Why can't we just have mutts?? It is proven that a mutt bred to a mutt (Not saying you should!!!) is more healthy then a pur-bred bred to a pur-bred (My vet, who breeds Labs BTW, showed me a whole book about it).

I just don't understand WHY we need breeds. Yes they are pretty but you can find that breed in a shelter, or a dog just as pretty. Yes, some people want certain temperments but you can find that certain temperment in the shelter. Yes, some people want certain size of dog, but you can find that size in the shelter. I dunno...I probly never will understand :rolleyes: and IF the world ever comes to a place where we acctually are having a problem with not enough dog's. Then why can't we either start new breeds, breed Healthy mutts or make up some kind of a system so we don't become what we were. But, it is very doubtful we will ever come to that place in life.

Snuggles - I don't hate breeders and I'm not really against them, but I think breeders should give back to the shelters. I also think Breeders should (not saying you don't) look around and notice how many animals ARE in shelters, or ARE in life or death situations. There just are not enough shelters! I think if they did, or even spent some time at shelters maybe they would relize how much the rabbit, dog, cats, rat, hamster etc. world NEED more shelters and less animals. (Again, not saying you don't!)


Ash

[Twisterdog]

People can and do argue back and forth time and again about this. Every breeder thinks they are doing it right, and every rescue or shelter person is sick and tired of death.

Opinions aside, however, the hard facts are seen every day in every city .... dogs die, cats die, rabbits die, rats die. In vast numbers, each and every day of the year.

Why? Two reasons ... too many animals and not enough homes, and a careless attitude about pets. This careless attitude ... "Oh, I don't like this one, I'll take it to the shelter and get a different one" ... is brought about because animals are free, cheap, easily available and not at all valued by this society. Supply exceeds demand by a LONG shot, and the value of any commodity where supply exceeds demands drops. Basic Economics 101.

If demand exceeds supply price and value rise. That is the ONLY thing that is going to help animals. All the preaching and whining and crying and protesting in the world will only make a small dent ... supply must fall below or equal to demand for it to change. History has shown this to be true time and again ever since the caveman first learnd to count on his fingers ... and it will be forever true in our society. Less animals bred means a higher value on them. Simple, and true.

The facts are numbers ... math and economics. Emotion and argument aside, let the numbers speak for themselves. Millions of animals die each year because they are cheap and overly available, too many animals - not enough homes. Period.

[Uabassoon]

I agree with Luckies on her explanation of breeding rats. Yes I do realize that there is a problem with rats not having homes, so far I have yet to find one in a shelter in Tucson (and trust me I look often) but I have seen a few in the Phoenix area. However it's not like going to the shelter where you can adopt a healthy dog or cat. Most of the rats that end up at a shelter came from pet stores and not a good breeder. These rats almost always have myco (if you search on google you will see that a large amount of rats have myco) or will develop tumors at a very young age. Good rat breeders work hard on the health of these animals so that there will be lines of rats that don't have myco and aren't prone to tumors. I think people who have never owned rats don't really realize just how common it is for these little guys to get sick. It seems like rats rarely die of old age, myco or tumors usually get to them first.

Overall I do agree with good and responsible breeders, how ever I know that the majority of breeders out there aren't very good.

[wolfie]

I agree with Aspen and Misty. I love all dogs, but I don't really see a need to keep breeding all these different breeds of purebreds. Breeders are all into keeping a breed 'alive' while millions of dogs DIE in shelters!

and it bugs me that breeders seem to deny that they are adding to the dog overpopulation. They blame BYBs, puppy mills, ect, when really they are adding more dogs to the population too.

Someone has actually said to me on another board, something along the lines of "I am not adding to the dog overpopulation because people who buy my purebred dogs don't want a dirty mutt from the pound" :mad:

[lisalee]

Originally posted by jenluckenbach



Every animal that is produced by a breeder (even a totally responsible breeder) that goes on to find its forever home takes away the possibility that a shelter or homeless animal (that has already been born due to irresponsible people) will NOT find its forever home and will more than likely die. There are only SO many homes available. The cycle must STOP!


I totally agree !! I'm very much against breeding. It truly breaks my heart that people would choose to buy a purebred animal over adopting from a shelter. That's very sad. :(


Lisa & Sash

[cali]

I just don't understand WHY we need breeds. Yes they are pretty...

while kennel clubs like AKC make being pretty th epoint of breeds before they made breeds "pretty"(which I personaly hate the look of show dogs) they were different breeds existed for a PURPOSE. and prancing around a ring was never one of those purposes.many breeds are STILL used for there original purpose. border collies are herding dogs, they are a mix of several breeds to creat the perfect working dog. and BCs are still NEEDED today. and any old mutt cannot work like a BC. in fact only 3 in the whole world have EVER been able to prove themselves to be as good as a BC. spanials are still used for hunting and they are nothing like those "pretty" versions that are usless. anyway my point is that their are very good reasons for actual "breeds" to exist. now show dogs have absolutly zero reason to exist, prancing around a ring looking pretty is hardly nessisary in life lol.

anyway I am one of the few people FOR breeders. while I am against BYBs and PMs as long as "responsable" breeders make is difficult to get a puppy BYBs and PMs will never go away. what many people consider resposable breeders are what keep BYBs and PMs running. now I know most of you will not agree but think about it. by the standerds of many, a responable breeders is one that is very picky, breeds to the show standerd, and most of all NEVER breeds mixes. well hate to break it to ya but there are plenty of people who want specific mixes and as the responsable breeders wont provide them, the BYBs and PMs WILL. do you honestly believe that denying someone a puppy that they will give up? nope, they TRIED a good breeder, but they were turned down, so they head to a BYB or PM, you mid as well say " sorry you cant have no puppy of mine, but why do you try the pet shop?" as much as you guys would like everyone to go the the shelter, it aint gonna happen.

[Snuggles]

as much as you guys would like everyone to go the the shelter, it aint gonna happen.
Agreed - most would rather know the history of an animal before purchasing. One of our dogs is from a breeder & one is from a shelter. & while all dogs are different, I can know that our shelter dog was abused before we got him. Doesnt make me love him any less, but it sure makes it hard to use him in 4h showmanship.

[dukedogsmom]

Originally posted by jenluckenbach
Every animal that is produced by a breeder (even a totally responsible breeder) that goes on to find its forever home takes away the possibility that a shelter or homeless animal (that has already been born due to irresponsible people) will NOT find its forever home and will more than likely die. There are only SO many homes available. The cycle must STOP!
I agree with this, also.

[binka_nugget]

I'm not against (RESPONSIBLE) breeders. I think dogs that do what they were bred for is great. If you stuck a Great Dane out on a field with a bunch of sheep, you're probably not going to get the sheep to go where you want it to go. Stick a (well bred) herding dog out there, and it'll get the job done. This is the only reason why I think breeds should still exist. Of course, not many of us live with lots of land with many sheep to move but there are people with specific things they'd like to do with their dogs. Personally, I'd like a herding/agility/fast flyball/obedience dog with a medium-long coat that can live in an apartment and is people/animal friendly and tolerant with young children. One perfect breed comes to mind and would fit in amazingly IF it is well-bred. Take away the breed, and I'm taking chances of possibly getting a dog that would fit well in my family.

I own two purebreds, one from a breeder and one from a shelter. Both purebreds none the less. Both are complete opposites. One is active, the other acts like a couch potatoe. One learns in minutes, the other learns in weeks. One has herding instinct, the other couldn't herd if his life depended on it. Both are of the same breed yet are extremely different. I know the rescue couldn't have come from a good breeder because the breeder would have taken him back when the family decided they didn't want him anymore. The well bred one is exactly what we had in mind and fits in perfectly with us. The rescue is co-existing well with us (only after months and months of training, which the average pet owner probably wouldn't do).

Anyways, I'm not against responsible breeders. Responsible breeders by my definition also rescue, don't make nearly enough from puppies to make a living out of breeding, get all necessary tests done and only continue on a line of well-bred dogs being exactly what they should be.

However, I do understand where a lot of you are coming from. I'm all for rescuing! I love mixes and I love purebreds. People have different expectations and needs. Some are flexible with what type of dog they want and some are extremely specific. It's a personal preference. For my first dog, I wanted a dog that I knew would have a steady temperment and be what the breed should be. We wanted to raise it from a puppy and have it become a well fitted family member. For the second dog, I was ready for surprises. And surprises, I got. I got aggression and major dominancy. Not what I wanted in my first dog but I felt I was ready for this one, however it turned out.

I'm not against responsible breeders. I'm against puppy mills and bybs who ruin it for all of us.

I hope no one takes that the wrong way. Just my two cents on the breed topic.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by wolfie
Someone has actually said to me on another board, something along the lines of "I am not adding to the dog overpopulation because people who buy my purebred dogs don't want a dirty mutt from the pound" :mad:



That makes me sick.

I don't think i'll EVER get a dog from a breeder. EVER.
Even to have a dog from the shelter, who will possibly have problems such as aggression, timid, shy and so on... Breaking them out of that and turning them into a happy dog is the most rewarding thing there could ever possibly be. More rewarding than any prize or sum of money. Maybe it's just me, but I enjoy working with my dogs, and I enjoy having to go that extra step to make them into a bouncing happy "pet me pet me!" dog.

My neighbors spent hundreds on their dog, had her flown from Seattle when they purchased her. They've had her for about a year, and she's worse than Nala EVER was at her age.


I'm not so much for responsible breeders, as I said in my first post, I'd much rather see breeding stop until there's no need for dog shelters and rescues. But, i'm much more for responsible breeders than I am PM's and BYB's


*no offense to anyone* but I just can't see why people care about what breed they're getting when dogs, cats, and all sorts of animals are dying in kill shelters.

[catmandu]

I cannot be against Ethical breeders,as taht is hoe John Hancock, Rocca Baton , andBJ came to be at The Hotel,as she is excellent,about finding Good Homes,for her Older Cats!

[primabella]

I deleted my original reply because I figured that people may take some of my points and argue against them, which is not what I was looking for.

I'll leave it like this: I respect all of your opinions and I hope you all respect mine. This is a tricky subject which we will not all agree on.. we all see it a bit differently. No need to try and convince the other to think how we do because it won't happen. However I do believe that there should be more enforcement on taking good care of your pets in order to prevent the overpopulation in shelters, rather than bad mouthing breeders of any kinds. That's the real problem here.

[isis]

Good Breeders, no. BYB and puppy mills, yes. I don't think we got Emma from a very good breeder. I think she was just breeding for the money. Although she is a very good dog. I just look at it like we saved her.

[sirrahbed]

I have never been to a breeder as my kitties are all rescues or strays and it is hard to justify breeders in my own mind - but I also know that it is probably necessary to keep the more exotic bloodlines pure. I think they should have very strict guidelines though, and be professional - not a hobby at all! I really like the aby and fold cats breeds but cannot imagine spending so much money on them when I see so many abandoned kitties at out shelters. I have been to some catshows also - and though they are interesting to me - I always feel a little sorry for the "showcats" - they do not seem at all normal to me. I guess it is OK for folks with lots of money as I know this hobby is very expensive. I will take my "mutts" anytime!!:D

[EssTer]

1/2 & 1/2
All dogs we've had we got from good breeders.. I think there are many good breeders that cares about their pups and so on...They are OK.. Thought I dont like those back yard breeders...

[KYS]

Primabella: However I do believe that there should be more enforcement on taking good care of your pets in order to prevent the overpopulation in shelters, rather than bad mouthing breeders of any kinds. That's the real problem here.>>>>>>>>

You have a very good point.

(I voted 1/2 by 1/2)

I am pro ethical-reputable breeders.
A couple of years ago, I watched a special on cable
about the problems of over population, puppy mills
and blood sports. (some of the stats were also mentioned
on the local news.)

The data that was presented was that
reputable breeders are such a small percentage
of our problem.
THe problem lies, with puppy mills,
than (pet owners/BYB) last on the list was the reputable breeder.
Not sure of the correct order of BYB vs pet owners.

Soo lets not blame the reputable breeder for
the overcrowding in our shelters.

We are to blame too:
If we breed our beloved family pets, because we want to duplicate their personaltiy, make a buck
or experience having puppy's (what ever the reason.yada yada yada.)

We are to blame too: if we do not spay and neuter.

We are to blame too: if give up our beloved pet because it does not fit into our life style today. (SOME reasons are valid for
finding another good home for our pet, but not dropping it
off at a shelter.


We are to blame too: if we buy our pet from a Puppy mill
or a pet shop. (not to say that our beloved pet purchased
from the above is any less, but
we have to stop this cycle.)

Pure breads do have a purpose other than just
looking a certain way.

I have loved and cared for my shelter dogs just
as much as my pure breds.
But lets not shoot the reputable breeder down, or the
dog owner that is responsible just because they
have a purebred.

I am done for now. :D

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by KYS
We are to blame too:
If we breed our beloved family pets, because we want to duplicate their personaltiy, make a buck
or experience having puppy's (what ever the reason.yada yada yada.)

We are to blame too: if we do not spay and neuter.

We are to blame too: if give up our beloved pet because it does not fit into our life style today. (SOME reasons are valid for
finding another good home for our pet, but not dropping it
off at a shelter.

We are to blame too: if we buy our pet from a Puppy mill
or a pet shop. (not to say that our beloved pet purchased
from the above is any less, but
we have to stop this cycle.)

Pure breads do have a purpose other than just
looking a certain way.

But lets not shoot the reputable breeder down, or the
dog owner that is responsible just because they
have a purebred.

I AGREE! Very well said.

[Kfamr]

No one's shooting down anyone, but responsible breeders ARE a factor in the homeless population, as are PM's and BYB's.... I'm not, and never will be.


Sooooooo many people have the mindset "Oh, shelter dogs are just mangy mutts... I'll spend however many hundreds of dollars for a breeder's dog, who has papers, yadda yadda yadda"

I personally just do not see the need for a pure bred, or papers, or whatever reason when so many dogs die in shelters and live in rescues and in "foster homes" I just really don't see how someone could do that. NO, i'm not saying any of you are horrible for getting your dogs from breeders, I really could care less as long as they're taken care of. I just don't see why so many are stuck on getting pure bred dogs, or strictly dogs from breeders.

I've never seen too many people do with their pure bred dog what the dog was originally bred for, but they're STUCK on buying from breeders.



*None of this is towards anyone on this forum, so please do not take it as that.*

[KYS]

I've never seen too many people do with their pure bred dog what the dog was originally bred for, but they're STUCK on buying from breeders.>>>>>>>>>>>>

Kay, This is very true.

You sound just like my sister when it comes
to breeders. :)


But I will add with a pure breed dog not only do you
know what your dog will look like but what traits it will most likely have.

No matter where we get our dogs from,
we all need to look at ourselves to stop this cycle of unwanted animals whether purebred or mixed.

[jenluckenbach]

When you think really hard about it, who is REALLY to blame? It is the people who BUY from puppy mills and back yard breeders! After all, you will never stop those people from trying to make the easy buck. But if we as a population stop supporting them knowing that they are WRONG we can in time put them out of business.

But why do we as a population go to these places to buy our pets? Because many (if not all) GOOD REPUTABLE breeders charge too much for many people to afford. So those people will get what they think they want from someone who will cater to their price range (PMs and BYBs).

So for me the bottom line is simple...........until the human race can stop thinking about
1) How to make more money (by breeding and selling cheap at the expence of the animals)
and
2) How to save some money (by buying cheap at all costs even from people you know should not be breeding)..........

I am against ALL breeding,

[ILoveReptiles]

110% AGAINST!

*snickering*

Seriously though, yes, I am against back-yard-breeders. I'd prefer to adopt/rescue a dog from a shelter...

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


Snuggles - I don't hate breeders and I'm not really against them, but I think breeders should give back to the shelters. I also think Breeders should (not saying you don't) look around and notice how many animals ARE in shelters, or ARE in life or death situations. There just are not enough shelters! I think if they did, or even spent some time at shelters maybe they would relize how much the rabbit, dog, cats, rat, hamster etc. world NEED more shelters and less animals. (Again, not saying you don't!)


This is why I also do rescue work. I cannot tell you how many rats have been in and out of my home this past year, TONS!!! Heck, the last litter I bred was way back in December, December! I don't breed often, and when I do I have homes lined up for the pups before the pair is even put together, they are all adopted with papers and they are to be returned to me if they cannot keep the animal anymore. I have only had one rat returned to me and that was Ollie, who was to come back here anyway as he went to a daycare facility for the term. My last litter was from a doe that came to me pregnant. I have had NO litters myself this year, reason being is that there are a lots of rats in my area that need homes and I have been spending all my time finding my rescues homes. My motto is, if you don't rescue, don't breed!!! Rescuing aside, there is a very special need for responsible rat breeders, because if we do not better rats as a whole they are still going to have these problems for years to come, and still die horrible painful deaths.

We also do not have "breeds" of rats. We only have types, and you can get several types from a mating. I charge $25 dollars per baby I adopt, sometimes more. This helps keep them out of snakes bellies and out of greedy hands etc. My babies cannot be bred themselves without my written permission first. I think it is absolutely silly to tell everyone to go to the petshop to get a rat, or from a rescue. Rats are VERY different than cats and dogs. Shelter rats most of the time need LOTS of work, work that an inexperienced rat owner cannot do with the rat, and that will only make things worse and most of the time the animal goes back to the shelter and gets tossed around over and over. I only urge experience rat owners to adopt from a shelter, and if not go to a breeder. Yes, there are rats in shelters, but most of those rats came from petshop breeders or irresponsible breeders. I know where EVERY SINGLE ONE of my babies are to this day, and I make wonderful friendships with my adoptees. Not once has a rat of mine been in a shelter, and it will never happen because I care where my babies end up. We need to focus on the people who are supplying the petshops, breeding feeders, and selling babies for an easy buck. I am sick of hearing we don't need rat breeders, because if you truly knew rats, and their health issues you would understand that we DO need responsible breeders, so that the suffering of rats can end. Have you ever seen a rat die from Myco? I have and I cannot tell you how horrible it is to see them die that way. How about tumors? Pyometra? SDA, Sendai? the list goes on and on. These are HORRIBLE illnesses but they can all be eliminated through selective breeding of healthy stock, so that the first time rat owner doesn't have heartache, but happiness and doesn't have to watch their rat die of accute respiratory distress, but of old age, dying peacefully in their sleep on snuggled in their owners pocket.

Besides that, I also have a rescue and I rescue many different kinds of pets. I rarely breed but when I do it is nothing I take lightly. I get at least a hundred rats through my place each year. The list also includes, gerbils, hedgies, short tailed possums, hamsters and whatever else happens to waltz through my door. Ewok was a bottle baby I fed, a rescue. Most of my cats in the past were rescues, as were my dogs. Pooka came from the shelter, as did my corgi mix, as did Morgan. I LOVE shelter dogs!!! They are the best ever! I will continue to go to shelters too. I just took in a feral cat. She is still nervous and I am working on getting her to let me pet her, but I wouldn't trade her for the world. I love my rescues. I want a purebred Boston Terrier but I won't go to a breeder. I am waiting for one to land in a local shelter. :)

[KYS]

by jenluckenbach:When you think really hard about it, who is REALLY to blame? It is the people who BUY from puppy mills and back yard breeders! After all, you will never stop those people from trying to make the easy buck. But if we as a population stop supporting them knowing that they are WRONG we can in time put them out of business.>>>>>>>>

YEP! YEP! YEP! I agree totally.

jenluckenbach: But why do we as a population go to these places to buy our pets? Because many (if not all) GOOD REPUTABLE breeders charge too much for many people to afford. >>>>>>>>

In Calif. buying from a reputable breeder is actualy cheaper
than buying from a Pet Store who buys their dogs
from PM.

BYB are the cheapest $$$, and easier, but when you consider
the future vet bills you might end up with, the BYB might not be that cheaper in the long run.
(even thought their are no guarrentees that a pup from
a reputable breeder will be healthy but at least you know
they have done genetic health tests on their lines.)


But their are not enough reputable breeders to buy from and
BYB will always exist to fill in the gap.

JMHO and I respect yours beliefs.

[jenluckenbach]

In Calif. buying from a reputable breeder is actualy cheaper
That is good to know. (and YES< I was generalizing in my statement about charging too much)


BYB are the cheapest $$$, and easier, but when you consider the future vet bills you might end up with, the BYB might not be that cheaper in the long run

But unfortunately, most people do not even consider this when they see all those happy puppies (or kitties, or bunnies.......) running around.

Just like it is often cheaper in the long run to adopt a cat at a no-kill rescue and pay the $50 to $100 adoption fee and have the blood tests, shots, spay/neuter, worming, flea treatment all ready done than taking a FREE TO GOOD HOME kitten out of the newspaper and going to the vet.

People don't consider THAT either.

[Snuggles]

Originally posted by luckies4me
This is why I also do rescue work. I cannot tell you how many rats have been in and out of my home this past year, TONS!!! Heck, the last litter I bred was way back in December, December! I don't breed often, and when I do I have homes lined up for the pups before the pair is even put together, they are all adopted with papers and they are to be returned to me if they cannot keep the animal anymore. I have only had one rat returned to me and that was Ollie, who was to come back here anyway as he went to a daycare facility for the term. My last litter was from a doe that came to me pregnant. I have had NO litters myself this year, reason being is that there are a lots of rats in my area that need homes and I have been spending all my time finding my rescues homes. My motto is, if you don't rescue, don't breed!!! Rescuing aside, there is a very special need for responsible rat breeders, because if we do not better rats as a whole they are still going to have these problems for years to come, and still die horrible painful deaths.

We also do not have "breeds" of rats. We only have types, and you can get several types from a mating. I charge $25 dollars per baby I adopt, sometimes more. This helps keep them out of snakes bellies and out of greedy hands etc. My babies cannot be bred themselves without my written permission first. I think it is absolutely silly to tell everyone to go to the petshop to get a rat, or from a rescue. Rats are VERY different than cats and dogs. Shelter rats most of the time need LOTS of work, work that an inexperienced rat owner cannot do with the rat, and that will only make things worse and most of the time the animal goes back to the shelter and gets tossed around over and over. I only urge experience rat owners to adopt from a shelter, and if not go to a breeder. Yes, there are rats in shelters, but most of those rats came from petshop breeders or irresponsible breeders. I know where EVERY SINGLE ONE of my babies are to this day, and I make wonderful friendships with my adoptees. Not once has a rat of mine been in a shelter, and it will never happen because I care where my babies end up. We need to focus on the people who are supplying the petshops, breeding feeders, and selling babies for an easy buck. I am sick of hearing we don't need rat breeders, because if you truly knew rats, and their health issues you would understand that we DO need responsible breeders, so that the suffering of rats can end. Have you ever seen a rat die from Myco? I have and I cannot tell you how horrible it is to see them die that way. How about tumors? Pyometra? SDA, Sendai? the list goes on and on. These are HORRIBLE illnesses but they can all be eliminated through selective breeding of healthy stock, so that the first time rat owner doesn't have heartache, but happiness and doesn't have to watch their rat die of accute respiratory distress, but of old age, dying peacefully in their sleep on snuggled in their owners pocket.

Besides that, I also have a rescue and I rescue many different kinds of pets. I rarely breed but when I do it is nothing I take lightly. I get at least a hundred rats through my place each year. The list also includes, gerbils, hedgies, short tailed possums, hamsters and whatever else happens to waltz through my door. Ewok was a bottle baby I fed, a rescue. Most of my cats in the past were rescues, as were my dogs. Pooka came from the shelter, as did my corgi mix, as did Morgan. I LOVE shelter dogs!!! They are the best ever! I will continue to go to shelters too. I just took in a feral cat. She is still nervous and I am working on getting her to let me pet her, but I wouldn't trade her for the world. I love my rescues. I want a purebred Boston Terrier but I won't go to a breeder. I am waiting for one to land in a local shelter. :)

I've resuced some rabbits along the way from other breeders/owners who are long overdue of taking care of their animals. Do I keep them in my barn? I'd love to! But I cant cause i cant have a whole barn full of rescued animals just so they will be in better hands. I guess I should have voted 1/2 & 1/2... Cause I really DO understand your guys's points about shelter animals, but I still want to have my own at the same time. But reality I would rather buy an animal & know its history even though there are many sitting in shelters. JMO - if i got a shelter dog knowing NO history, going there thinking "oh its cute, it needs a home" & then it goes home & takes my arm off how would I react? Where as some responsible breeders who arent here to rip you off or lie to you (which i will admit are rare) could give you a good history of the animals parents temperments & so on & so on. I still tell you I couldnt decide between the two though.