Ear Clipping and Tail Docking

[Erika]

I think it is cruel to clip dog's ears now for no other reason than tradition. I can understand it when they were trying to protect the dogs ears from wild boars and fighting and such, but now it is just mean. They do it when they are two weeks old and it is a very painful experience. More people are now opting for natural looks for their dogs, and I am glad. But there are still many more with cropped ears, as it is most popular with the AKC. When we rescued Nikki, her tail and ears were already done. I don't believe tails are as bad as ears because they dock them when the pup is only 2 or 3 days old and the tail is still cartilage. I would have rather had them natural, though. Poor Nikki had to go through that. What are your opinions?

[Kfamr]

I do not agree with either of them.
I could understnad tail docking IF the dogs tail became injured.


Overall I think both precedures are absolutely unnecessary and cruel, there's no reason for either of them.

[K9soul]

I don't like either one, and wish they were illegal in the U.S., especially ear cropping. Ear cropping is the worst because of the prolonged pain, and also chance of infection if not properly cared for and so on. I think it should be done for medically necessary reasons only.

I did some research on all this awhile back, and read that some vets are beginning to refuse to do the cropping procedures because they have personally witnessed the intense pain the dogs go through.

People get used to how dogs looked cropped or docked and so they "like it better." But I think if they were used to uncropped and docked, then suddenly saw a cropped/docked dog, they would not like it better at all. I know when I was younger the first time I saw uncropped/docked dogs in a book, it took me a bit to get used to how it looked.

[dukedogsmom]

I'm not getting into this discussion again.

[chocolatepuppy]

I don't like either. I personally woudn't do it to any dog of mine. I like look of boxers and dobbies without their ears done since I've seen a few.

[binka_nugget]

I prefer dogs completely natural. I've grown to like how APBTs and Dobermans look with natural ears.

A friend of mine watched docking done on pups (they were at least 4 weeks old). The way she described it made me tear up. :(

[cocker_luva]

im neutral about the subject.

[EssTer]

I like much better natural doggies :)
I know one great dane owner, she docked her dane's tail..I was asking why - she said mostly all great danes, when they get older they broke their tails..Well, breeder from who we got our past dane had owned many danes, and she said there were no probems..
In many contries (in Iceland too) they've banned to dock tails and crop ears.. I think it is good...

[primabella]

What could be nicer than the natural look? :D

Not only do I thik it's a pretty cruel procedure but I prefer the natural look so much more. We used to tape Mickey's ears forward so they'd grow to flop over, but they never stayed, so we stopped. And I really love his ears this way; pointy and straight-up. They look like kitty ears, hehe. :)

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by EssTer
I like much better natural doggies :)
I know one great dane owner, she docked her dane's tail..I was asking why - she said mostly all great danes, when they get older they broke their tails..Well, breeder from who we got our past dane had owned many danes, and she said there were no probems..
In many contries (in Iceland too) they've banned to dock tails and crop ears.. I think it is good...




(I'm not saying this towards you, I'm saying this towards the subject of dogs breaking their tails ;) )


Lots of children break their arms, their legs, their "butt bones" and many, many other bones... does that mean we should start chopping limbs off because we're afraid of them getting broken in the future?

I mean, a tail is like a limb for dogs. They use it for swimming, they use it for balance and so on...

[DogLover9501]

Originally posted by dukedogsmom
I'm not getting into this discussion again.

Ditto...

[EssTer]

Originally posted by Kfamr
(I'm not saying this towards you, I'm saying this towards the subject of dogs breaking their tails ;) )


Lots of children break their arms, their legs, their "butt bones" and many, many other bones... does that mean we should start chopping limbs off because we're afraid of them getting broken in the future?

I mean, a tail is like a limb for dogs. They use it for swimming, they use it for balance and so on...

Well said about those children :)

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by Kfamr
[BI mean, a tail is like a limb for dogs. They use it for swimming, they use it for balance and so on... [/B]

But what about dogs with natural bobtails? Does this mean they are less adept at swimming, finding balance etc?

I also don't agree with using the excuse that a dog might break it's tail so better to dock it now.

That being said I like the look of docked and cropped dogs. I have a problem with people who try to explain it away by saying oh the dog may have broken it's tail, or may get ear infections. That's BS, they're getting it done for looks.

[Denyce]

I have a feeling this is sort of like the cat issue of declawing. It can get real nasty and has been discussed numerous times. But on the other hand for those that are new it is always good to reopen this type of discussion only trying to keep it civil.

I don't agree with docking or cropping at all. I feel that for the AKC to require it as a breed standard is so wrong. I don't know...what more can one say. It is just wrong. *shrug*

I can't think off the top of my head any breeds that have a naturally occuring bobtails. :confused:

I also don't agree with it in cattle or horses either. Tail docking that is. I really don't see how anyone can agree with such a procedure just for the reason of vanity or convenience. :(

Denyce

[binka_nugget]

Originally posted by Denyce
I can't think off the top of my head any breeds that have a naturally occuring bobtails. :confused:

Catahoula leopard dogs, stumpy tail cattle dogs, and australian shepherds are a few breeds with natural bobtails. :)

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by binka_nugget
Catahoula leopard dogs, stumpy tail cattle dogs, and australian shepherds are a few breeds with natural bobtails. :)

As well as old english sheepdogs, schipperkes, and pembroke welsh corgis.

[Denyce]

Ahhhhhh....such an education I am getting. :D :D

Thank you. I figured there had to be some I just couldn't for the life of me think of any at the time.

Denyce

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by Shelteez2
But what about dogs with natural bobtails? Does this mean they are less adept at swimming, finding balance etc?


I'm no dog expert so I really wouldn't know. :p

Another thing, dogs could easily break their legs. Should we amputate them all now?

Wan't a dog with no tail? Afraid of your dog breaking it's tail?
Want an up-right eared dog?
Get a breed with no tail, up-right ears, or get a hamster or something.

I personally don't think there's anything better than the natural look for dogs.... besides a little grooming.

(Again, this wasn't towards anyone.. I was just speaking in general.)

[Amber]

It feels kinda weird how many of you say tail docking is mean, when I have a docked tailed puppy. Kinda makes me feel....uhh i can't explain it though.

though ear cropping is different. I don't like it really. Even though schnauzers are to have cropped ears, I perferred the floppy ears.

[cali]

I dont agree with it either, Ripley has a short tail but we have no idea if its natural or docked, since we did not get him till he was 8 months old. but bob tails also come up naturally in breeds thats not normal for it to happen. one sheltie breeder I know had a sheltie born with a bob tail, as well as blair little brothers 2 out of the 3 have bob tails, one was docked for medical reasons and the other was born with a natural bob tail which is highly unusual in the breed.

[Cincy'sMom]

I personally prefer natural ears and tails. Just my opinion.

I was surprised when I went to a dog show here in town, to see Danes being shown with natural ears. I started talking to an owner/breeder/handler and found out it has never been an AKC rule to have the ears docked for Danes. Most judges are just used to it so most show dogs have it done. I said I liked the natural ears, she said she prefred them clipped...but they decided to try natural with their current litter...and they were getting close to a championship with their male. Maybe there is hope that opinions will change...

[Nomilynn]

I'm pretty sure that Old English Sheepdog's are born with a natural tail. We had one once; she was bought from a breeder (this was about 17-18years ago and we had no clue about rescue) and her tail was docked. It was what was considered standard.

I thought her docked tail was really cute because to compensate she wagged her entire bum, and there is nothing cuter than a whole bum wag! But, if I had a choice it would be natural for me. :)

[tikeyas_mom]

We were going to get Baby's ears done when she was 3 months, but we decided against it, I seriously read that ear infections happen more in great danes with natural ears... But it is just stupid now that I think about it.

I personally like the look of both. Thought I wouldent ever do it because I would not want my pup to go through that much pain.

[Aspen and Misty]

I don't agree with it at all and thats all I'm saying.

Ash

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by Nomilynn
I'm pretty sure that Old English Sheepdog's are born with a natural tail. We had one once; she was bought from a breeder (this was about 17-18years ago and we had no clue about rescue) and her tail was docked. It was what was considered standard.

I thought her docked tail was really cute because to compensate she wagged her entire bum, and there is nothing cuter than a whole bum wag! But, if I had a choice it would be natural for me. :)

They can be born with tails, like most of the breeds mentioned for having natural bob tails. When these breeds are born with tails then they are docked to a uniform length.


Tail-- Docked close to the body, when not naturally bob tailed.

Taken from the OES standard. http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/olengshe.cfm

[countrycowgirl]

Originally posted by Amber
It feels kinda weird how many of you say tail docking is mean, when I have a docked tailed puppy. Kinda makes me feel....uhh i can't explain it though.



ditto!

[Nomilynn]

Maybe they can be born without tails, but from looking at some google websites it seems to be that generally, OES are born with tails and therefore have to be docked. Also, they were not originally known as not having a tail.

[BitsyNaceyDog]

I adopted my min-pin, Charlie when He was 2, so his tail was already docked. I love his little stub, but if he were mine as a puppy I wouldn't have done it. His ears however are not cropped, and I'm so glad, He is so cute with his floppy ears.

They give him so much personality. (or should I say dogality):rolleyes:
(note: he's watching Timmy our tortoise walking around.)
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v244/kblaix/furbabies/IMG_0918.jpg

Now just try to tell me those ears aren't cute. (disregard me)
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v244/kblaix/furbabies/IMG_1023.jpg

[wolfie]

Originally posted by K9soul
I don't like either one, and wish they were illegal in the U.S.

I agree - I think it's mean. There's really no point at all - other than cosmetic reasons.

[stacwase]

I've said this before, but as a nurse I can't help but see the similarities between Ear Clipping, Tail Docking, and circumcision.

They're all cosmetic procedures done at a very young age with no medical benefits (they've proven circumcision isn't medically beneficial).

I've watched circumcisions. They hurt - probably as much as ear clipping and tail docking. The babies get over it. I don't know any men with permanent emotional problems associated with their circumcisions. The puppies get over it, too.

I think that they're all unnecessary and cruel, but brief and basicallly harmless since there aren't any long-term implications. Certainly not worthy of getting very upset over.

[K9soul]

Docking could probably be compared to circumcision, but ear cropping can't in my opinion. It is quite a bit more of a prolonged in pain experience.

What I really wanted to say however, is that people here with dogs that have been docked/cropped, I do not think you are cruel people in the least. I think the procedure itself is distasteful, and unnecessary, but because someone gets a pup with a docked tail or cropped ears, or even someone who likes the look of it, I don't judge them to be cruel people by any means. If I were to take a puppy, and choose for it between a loving home where it would be docked/cropped, or a neglectful or cruel home where it would be left natural, without a doubt there would be zero question which family I'd rather see it go to.

I doubt that the majority here, if present when the puppies were born and someone stood there with docking implements would choose to have it done. I know, no matter how brief the pain is, I just couldn't give the go-ahead and see it done.

[Kiia]

I had the choice to crop Teeko's ears when he was just a pup, I never got it done. It was just never an interest in mine to get them done. And besides I love his floppy ears the way they are :), his head/body grew bigger so they don't look that floppy now. He had the nickname of Nacho Ears for a while. LOL

I especially cringed after I had read that a person actually tried to crop their dogs ears with hedge shears.. :( (I think I posted the link in the dog house section months ago)

[Erika]

I feel bad for Nikki, because she had to go through the procedure of ear cropping. I would rather see her with floppy ears. But she is still the cutest dog ever, and I love her just the way she is. People who have cropped and docked dogs are not cruel people. I don't like the actual procedure, not the people who own the dogs. I think that if a dog is born a certain way, it should stay that way.

[christrev]

As everybody else says, & I agree with them, it's ssoo cruel to clip/dock a little puppies ears/tails when they are ssooo young and cute. Perhaps it is good for SOME dogs to have their tails docked........but I really can't understand why....but as you say the owners of docked/clipped dogs luv em as much as any other owners anyway. It's not really worth arguing about it all anyway.

I was on another forum when things got far to heated and people got reaaly stressed out about it all so in the end we agreed to differ like you are doing now.

chris:(