Sad situation.....advice please

[lovemyshiba]

My neighbors have come to me for advice, and I don't know what to do.
A little background on them first: They have 3 kids, 16, 8, and 4.
They also have 2 cats. Mom and Dad both work, and the kids are all in school. Last summer, they adopted a lab mix, Marley, from PAWS. Personally, I wasn't sure if it was the best idea, but I kept my mouth shut. Marley was about 80 pounds, and the younger kids were afraid of him, so back he went after 2 weeks. My husband and I loved him, he was an awesome dog. Marley is now living with a couple with no children, and doing very well.
Fast forward a few months, and they adopted Mitch from Golden Retriever Rescue:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid89/p5b51a0ed600477bdbe944abb91628257/fa869309.jpg

Mitch is a great dog, he comes over to play sometimes, and has stayed with us before when they were out of town. We never had any trouble with him, except we couldn't get them all to settle down at bedtime!! They took him to obedience classes, and everyone participated, so even the littlest one could get him to listen to commands.
Well, a few months ago, Mitch bit one of the kids who was over to play:( Not bad, but still, a bite is a bite. They immediately contacted a local behaviorist, said to be the best in the area, and signed up for the expensive training (which surprised me, because they don't have a lot of money). They worked hard with him, and he was so obedient. I was very impressed by how well he listened after all of the training.
Then they were faced with a dilemma. The trainer told them that they still have to work consistently with him every day. They had a vacation coming up. Grandma and Grandpa came to stay with the kids, but Mitch had to go to a kennel, because Grandma is afraid of dogs. Five is too many for me to handle for a week, so we couldn't help out this time. Plus, I didn't want Mitch picking up on my dogs' bad habits:p The trainer warned them about it, that he may forget everything he learned while they were away, but the vacation was more important, and off they went.
There are some other things I should mention as well. Mitch is outside. A lot. When they first got him, I would see them walking him all the time, but as time went on, the walks diminished, and he was being tied out in the front yard. He didn't make much noise out front, but they moved him to the side yard eventually. He can't see anyone from over there, and he is right next to my fence, so he hears my dogs in the yard, and goes crazy. Just the other day, I went to the store to pick up some food for a cookout. As I was leaving, the little girl and one of her friends were playing out front, and mom and dad were on the porch. I could see Mitch from the car. He was crated in mom and dad's room, and it broke my heart. A perfect little family picture, and one member of the family is put away.
Well, the mom called my husband last night. Mitch lunged at her yesterday, and she's upset. They feel that they can't have an "unpredictable" dog around, with the kids. She said that the doorbell rang, and it was one of the little friends' mom's coming to get her. My husband asked her if Mitch had to be "put away" every time someone came over, and she said yes, that's what they do. Well, no wonder he hates it when people come over!! He equates visitors with having to go in the yard, or in his crate--I wouldn't want company either.

The solution seems pretty clear: they obviously can't handle this dog, and maybe he would be better off in another home. He is only around 2, I believe. This is where the messiness comes in. They signed a contract with Golden Retriever Resce, that if they ever needed to get rid of him, they would turn him over to them. It seems as though the mom has talked to them about his problem, and they told her that since he is a biter, he will be put down if he is returned to them:eek:
So, what to do???? He has been evaluated by a behaviorist--he is not a dangerous dog. I don't understand why GRR would even say that--it seems strange to me, but I am not involved with rescue. We have another local rescue, but the contract--they have to abide by the contract, right?? And I'm afraid Mitch is going to have a miserable life if he stays there anyway--I hate to see a dog shuffled around from home to home, but I hate even more to see one tied up right next door to me.:(
I don't know what to do, the whole situation breaks my heart. I know they never should have gotten a dog in the first place, especially after the first one didn't work out. I hate to see this happen. I don't know what to tell her. She wanted to know if I would be able to find him a loving home, and I told her I could try like hell, but I'm pretty sure they can't break the contract. But what if they do?? I wonder what can happen then.....
I may place a call to the GRR and see what they say.

I'm sorry this is so long, but this is really weighing on me, and I do not want to see this dog put to sleep. Any advice would be wonderful.

[Cincy'sMom]

Wow. What a tough situation. I can't believe a resue would put a dog down becuase he bit once. Esp. since itis hard to know what the child may have done. Was the bite provoked? And a behaviorist has said the dog is not dangerous.

Obviuosly the best thing would be if they continued to work with the dog and began to trust him.

The next best thing wouldbe to break the contract and rehome him, maybe to someone without kids. I don't know how much the rescue follows up on adoptions, but if they are going to PTS I would definatley rehome.

[Canis Amicus]

I am so sorry to know what is happening to this wonderful, young dog! It breaks my heart to hear he might be PTS.

I hope a real home for him will be found.


Rosana
and
Rex, GSD 3y

[aly]

Emily -

I'm really sorry about this situation. I know its hard on you too even though it isn't your dog.

Another option would be to have the behaviorist call the GR Rescue and discuss the dog with them, making sure he won't be put to sleep. If you're uncomfortable with that, I would just break contract and surrender him to another rescue. They will have to lie though and not say a word about the rescue they got him from to the other rescue. Generally if a shelter or rescue receives a dog from another shelter/rescue, they will contact them and let them know they have one of their dogs returned to them.

I hope I'm mkaing sense. I just woke up and can't think straight yet.

Good luck to you and your neighbors :(

[MariaM]

I reccommend them buying or getting from the library : The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell. You might hear me saying this a lot in the future, but that is because I have read it and it is a really really good book. I think if they be consistent with what the book sais, they shouldn't have any problems anymore! Good luck to them, and remember to recommend that booK!

[Albea]

Emily,
if the choices are breaking the contract or knowing that the dog will be put to sleep if he goes back to the rescue place, breaking the contract and finding a new home for him seems to me the most decent thing to do. Dogs can adjust very quickly to changing circumstances when they are given love and attention and taking him to a new home shouldn't be the concern in this case.
I wonder how much investigation, home visits, etc., this rescue does before they allow a dog to be adopted. I do volunteer work for Yankee Golden Retriever Rescue and know that it may be easier to adopt a child than to adopt a dog from us, considering all the steps that prospective adopters have to go through. Also, I never heard of one of our Goldens face the possibility of being put to sleep if he/she goes back to the kennel. If the dog's history is not know, because of being a stray, then that dog is not given to families with children.
Regardless of how well intentioned these people are, I do hope, for the sake of any other dog, that they will give up the idea of adopting a new one in the future.

[Karen]

Funny enough, we have a guy going to law school in my office, who said just the other day that legally these days contracts don't mean a whole lot. If you call them independently, and they tell you the dog would be put to sleep, then I'd break the contract without a second thought.

Finding a behaviorist, or even a vet who might help is a possibility, but I think finding an adults-only home for him might be best.

[heinz57_79]

This whole thing really distresses me. Obviously these people got a dog to be a dog, not a part of the family. I dont understand why they would put the money into a behavioralist, then go on vacation knowing that it could be a major setback. We all know a dog left to his own devices is never a good thing. Crating him when people come over is such a bad idea. And personally, I'd tell grandma to get over it. :D

I agree with the suggestion of having the behavioralist talk to the rescue people. Obviously, it's the circumstances, not the dog. As for breaking the contract and finding him a new home, do you think the people are responsible enough to find him the right home? Or will they just give him away to the first person who comes along, regardless of whether or not it's the right home for him? Do you know anyone who would be willing to foster him until a good home is found? It would be such a waste to have a dog who seems to just need a little time and TLC be PTS.

I'm sorry I dont have any more concrete advice. :) But hopefully he'll end up happy.

Just an after thought... It would be interesting to find out what really happened to make him bite the kid. Hardly any dog will bite unless provoked. I always told my ex's neices and nephews that if one of my dogs bit them they'd get spanked, cuz I KNOW my dogs will not be aggressive unless threatened.

[Ally Cat's Mommy]

I don't come over to the "dog side"much but this has been weighing on my mind.

IMHO I would take him to another rescue and NOT tell them the history. (Do they track by tattoo or microchip, or is it all taken on your word?)

You can't always play by the rules!

[dukedogsmom]

I say, keep the dog and rehome the kids! Anyway, in seriousness, if there is any chance he would be put down, I would rehome him if at all possible. It is also a good idea to have the trainer call the rescue group. No wonder he did bite in the first place. Kids can be very hard on a dog and unless one is really understanding, I can really understand. Shame on those people for doing dogs like that. They don't need or deserve the love of a dog. Wish I could take him! I'd make up for those lonely times and spoil him rotten.

[lovemyshiba]

Thank you all for your advice. I have read some great suggestions here, and want to take the time to address some of your thoughts.

Since many of you asked about the bite, I have to say that I don't know if the bite was provoked or not, my husband spoke to them, not me, so I'm not sure. One of my dogs has bit their little girl a while back too, because she came running at him full speed, screaming "can I pet your dog?" , when she KNEW which one didn't like kids. I don't know if that tells you anything, but it does make me suspect that it may have been provoked.

Amy--
I know that the best thing would be to work with him, but I'm not sure they still want to do that. The mom said she is very upset and doesn't want him to be pts, but I'm not sure they want to work with him much. We here all know that having a dog is a lifetime commitment, and I'm not saying they didn't take that to heart, but I guess they didn't know that there is work involved.

Aly (and everyone else who suggested it)--
that is a good idea for the behaviorist to contact the rescue, and I hadn't thought about that. I will definitely give her that suggestion when I do speak with her.

Canis Amicus--
thank you so much for your concern

Maria--
I hadn't heard of that book before. I will recommend it to them, should they decide to keep him and work with him, and I may pick up a copy for myself. Thanks.

Albea--
your response really helped me out. I can't believe the rescue would say that--I know can't be what usually happens. Hearing your perspective makes me want to dig a little deeper into this. I don't know how much they had to go through to get this dog. I know there was an application, but I'm not positive there was a home visit. It will be interesting to find out. I think I may make a call to the rescue to find out what I would have to go through to adopt a dog from them, and see what it is. I don't want to step on their toes just yet, because I don't want to see Mitch put down either.

Karen--
Interesting about the contracts--I didn't know that. Maybe they will just break the contract and find him a new home.

heinz57_79--
There is NO WAY I will let them just give him away to anyone. As far as fostering goes, I may even go so far as to say I'll foster him if need be.
As far as grandma goes, all I can say is :rolleyes:
I would be interested to find out what happened before he bit too. Honestly, I don't know why they got a dog, he seems to be more of an inconvenience than anything. They call us when he needs his nails clipped, for pete's sake.

Ally Cat's Mommy--
I agree with what you say--just take him somewhere, and break the rules!! I'm not sure if he is microchipped or anything, I would have to check into that.

and Val--
I wish I could take him too--he would be spoiled rotten here too!! I know dogs don't have this capacity, but I swear he is so jealous of my dogs--he can't see them, because of the fence, but he can hear them running around out back, getting the balls and frisbees thrown for them, and just getting attention in general. It breaks my heart to see him outside alone, which is why I have him over sometimes to play.


Anyway, the dad was outside working in the yard all day today, and I didn't see or hear Mitch once. I was outside quite a bit as well, and it bothered my that I didn't see him at all. I'm off tomorrow, so hopefully I can talk to them then.
In the meantime, there is an adoption event at Petco tomorrow, and I would like to go and see a woman I know who volunteers for PAWS, and see what she knows about the GRR, and what Mitch's chances may be if he goes to them. This is a small time, and all of the rescue organizations know each other, so it's highly unlikely that he can go to another rescue without them finding out.

I'll try to keep everyone updated.

[carole]

I would highly recommend that book too, I did a thread on her recently, I have watched her on the TV and she is brilliant, good luck, a sad situation indeed, I sure hope something can be done to help, sorry no advice here, just good wishes for a happy ending.

[shais_mom]

I am chatting with you AIM so I am just replying so I can be updated on the situation

[Cataholic]

Dogs bite. Why is this so difficult to understand? Humans bite, hit, etc. "We" know better. It just makes me mad at humans that make this the breaking point.

I understand you not being in a position to take this dog. Is there another local rescue in the area you could call? Could the family re-home the dog themselves?

Now, on to the contracts not meaning anything issue...lest we all get the idea we can just do what we want, without thinking of the documents we sign. I wanted to add this input...you are entitled to break a contract.
There are two issues- the first- what happens when you break a contract. The 'punishment' is what are known as damages. What damage happened to the other party when you broke the contract. Easy example. You sign a lease for 12 months to rent your apartment. You break the lease 6 months into it. The landlord has been damaged 6 months of rent. She/he can collect it from you (there is a duty on their part to re-rent....but, this is just an example). If you broke the contract with the rescue people....what are they damaged, really? Nothing. I suppose they could sue you, but, I don't see what they would recover from you. So, you don't end up with any real consequence. Like moving out of the apartment early, but, having already paid the rent. You are 'obligated' to stay there (loosely speaking), but, what is the damage caused by moving early? No damage.

The second part is- is the 'contract' really a contract. For a contract to be enforceable, there has to be a bargained for exchange. You gave X to get Y. I don't really see what your promise to return the dog to them got you. They didn't make a reciprocal promise. So, prolly, the contract itself isn't even enforceable. And, if there isn't a contract that is enforceable, you don't need to worry about what happens when you break it.

Just some basic info on contract law...now, on with the disclaimer..you can't sue me, I am not your attorney. You shouldn't rely on my advice, you should seek advice from a comptetent attorney in your area, blah, blah.

[lovemyshiba]

Thanks for your advice Johanna.
I was thinking that there's nothing that could happen to them if they broke the contract, I'm sure people do it all the time.
My only concern with another rescue in the area is that they all know each other, and PAWS, for example, may not take the dog, because they know he came from GRR, and that's where he should be returned. I'm sure we could arrange a transport if we found a suitable home or rescue, though.

[tatsxxx11]

Oh Emily, how sad:(:(:( I ditto all of Alicia's (Albea) comments. Getting a dog from my rescue group, North East All Retriever Rescue (NEARR) is as difficult and involved a process as adopting a child! Your neighbors are a good example of why we are.

There has to be a knowledge of the breed, dog experience, and with small children in the home a fenced in yard. We also work hard at matching up the right dog for each family, their lifestyle, etc. No dog can be left tied out, ever and we do weekly follow ups for 3 months and then monthly for 6 months, to help the family deal with any issues.

It's strange that this rescue group wouldn't take the dog back, as it doesn't seem to have true aggressive tendencies and has been evaluated by a behaviorist who states the same. Little kids can be very provokative and insite the gentlest of dogs. Personally, it doesn't sound to me that this family is really suitable for this dog; I'm not sure they have the time to commit to any dog right now, especially one that has issues that need to be dealt with, as do most rescues.

The problem with having the family themselves rehome the dog, is that there's no assurance he won't wind up in a similar circumstance. I would look for other Lab/Golden/Retriever rescue groups in your area. From your description, I know we would take him into NEARR, but he's too far away:( This is a dog that we would most probably place in an experienced Retriever home with no kids. Ugh. I wish I could help Emily. What a beautiful dog he is and so deserving of a good home that has the time to commit to make him a well socialized, happy pup. We track our adoptees closely. What about this group? Doesn't sound like they've been too involved post adoption, and didn't do a very good home/family evaluation to begin with. They already notified the rescue group about the bite, right? If they didn't make an effort to remove the dog from the home at that time, if I were the family, I'd try placing him privately. What a sad situation:( Keeping my paws crossed for Mitch:( Did you do a Retreiver rescue search in your area? By the way, his he a Golden or a Lab?

[Albea]

Any news about Mitch, Emily?
I don't know if you have the time but, if you can't find a local family to take him, you could check the sites of other Golden Rescues in neighboring states.
If you go to http://www.ygrr.org there is a page under "Links" that has the Web sites of other rescues. If they are responsible organizations they would have a transportation system set up.
By the way, take a look at the "Successful Adoptions" photo of Princess in the YGRR home page and you'll see what a good "rescue" does to get a pup ready for adoption.

[MariaM]

Please tell them to read The Dog Listener before any serious decisions are made!!!:(

[Denyce]

I just came across this thread. These people really shouldn't have a dog. *sigh*

What has happened with Mitch? Is there any news?

Denyce

[clara4457]

Okay - I am going to play devils advocate. Just because it is a so-called "rescue organization" does not mean it is legitimate. I have seen many rescue organizations that are actually animal hoarders in disguise. I have also seen rescue organizations that have released aggressive dogs without any thought to the consequences. I have seen so called "rescue organizations" adopt out a dog that they know has the propensity to bite without thinking about the ramifications.

Since your friends have already contacted a behaviorist - I would say they should surrender it to a QUALIFIED rescue organization. They can assess the dog and determine whether or not it can live a FULL PRODUCTIVE life in a different home. If not - they can take the appropriate steps. I think they should contact the behaviorist to suggest the best place for the dog.

Trust me when I say that there are a great many wonderful rescue organizations that will place a dog in the APPROPRIATE household. My gut feeling is that the dog is highly sensitive and needs to be in an adult only household - and there are a great many of us out there. A qualified rescue organization will find the perfect home.

My heart goes out to you - I hope your neighbors find a solution. It sounds like their hearts are in the right place, but they cannot in good conscience put their kids at risk, and they are not "dog savvy" enough to understand doggie language. My feeling is if they found the right dog, it could be a viable family member, but they probably have a dog that is a little more than they can handle. I do not feel like they shouldn’t have a dog – the fact that they contacted a behaviorist says a great deal. Maybe they just adopted the wrong dog.