Question about country dogs

[stacwase]

We're getting ready to move to the country, and I have some questions about how our dogs' lives will be different. It's a very remote area.

Do you let your dogs outside off leash? If so, how often do they come inside? Do you have to go looking for them at bedtime?

I think it would be OK to let them have some freedom in the day time, but I really want them home before dark and I'm hoping they'll kind of hang around the house most of the day. Do country dogs tend to stay pretty close to the homestead most of the time?

I realize there are a lot of risks associated with letting them run off leash. Max will probably attack a porcupine at least one more time. He'll probably get sprayed by a skunk more than once. But I'd be willing to budget a little extra for vet bills just to allow him to have a happier life.

With Jake, I don't worry about him chasing any smaller animals and getting hurt that way. I'm pretty sure he'll just hang around the house and bark at the chickens.

[aly]

If I were you, I'd invest in the fence. Tons of people do have country dogs who stick close to home with no fence. But then it just takes that one accident and the dogs are gone forever. You'll always hear people say its okay because the dogs stick by home, but most likely those same people have had many accidents in the past with their dogs, and when they don't change antyhing, many accidents are waiting in the future. There's no way to guarantee that a dog will stay on the property. Even if they lay there 99% of the time, there might be that ONE thing that comes along that will cause them to run off and get injured, stolen, or killed.

[Kfamr]

I agree with Aly..
I wouldn't take any chances, no matter how remote the area is.

[guster girl]

My friend's dog was shot and killed because he happened to be roaming around in the country. They lived pretty remotely, about six miles from the nearest neighbor, and, he still managed to get on someone else's property. How remote are you talking? I agree with getting a fence. They're happy AND safe that way.

[Twisterdog]

I agree with Aly. Put up a fence.

I live in a rural area, and most of the dogs here run loose. I am forever seeing a dead dog in the ditch, having been hit by a car. Or a dog with a broken leg. Or hearing some kids talk about finding a dead dog in a leg hold trap, after it bled or starved to death. My neighbors lab was brutally mauled and killed by a pit bull, in front of her two grade-school aged sons, when both dogs where running loose. My ex's dog was blinded by porcupine quills shot into his eyeball. Dogs are routinely shot and killed if a farmer or rancher suspects the dog is bothering his livestock ... and "bothering" has different meanings to different people. I could go on and on with what I have seen around here.

Dogs allowed to run loose in rural areas are, for the most part, diposable animals. If this dog gets shot or hit by a car or killed ... no big deal, because there's a litter of pups in the barn anyway. I don't believe you feel that way about your dogs, though, and I would hate for you to find out the hard way about the extreme dangers of dogs running loose.

Not to mention the fact that letting your dogs run loose, going onto other people's private property is extemely rude and NOT a good-neigborly sort of thing to do.


But I'd be willing to budget a little extra for vet bills just to allow him to have a happier life.

It may be a LOT for vet bills, or it may be zero for vet bills, if you go looking for your dog and find he or she dead. And a happier life? I don't know about that. Dogs are pack animals, happy with their pack ... you. Sure, most dogs will explore given a chance, but that is certainly not to say that dogs who are not allowed to roam free are unhappy!

Put up a fence.

[stacwase]

Our place is not as remote as your friend's.

The people who live there now have lived there for over 30 years. Their dog is really old and always off leash. The neighbors have a dog that's so old he can't really leave the house anymore, but when he was younger he was off leash. Then of course there are the working dogs on the farms.

That's why I was wondering if maybe running loose was not as dangerous as I had thought.

There is a very nice dog who comes over and visits the place we're buying. He's a big shepherd/collie mix. I know that when he comes in the yard, Max is going to be just going crazy, wanting to play with him.

Maybe instead of letting Max run loose, I can build a big kennel and let that dog come in and play with him. That would be the best of both worlds.

The road is so full of potholes that cars can't really go very fast on it, so I'm not really worried about anybody getting hit by a car - I am worried that, like your friend's dog, one of the dogs might get shot.

So - I guess there's really not much of a decision to be made. I will feel so terrible keeping them penned up, though, when there's so much fun for them to do out there. You'd think country dogs could have more fun than city dogs, but I guess they really can't do so safely.

I'm just thinking aloud here. Decisions, decisions.

[stacwase]

OMG, Twisterdog! You have me convinced. That's just absolutely terrible. Jeez! Not at all the sweet, peaceful life in the country that I had pictured. Wow!

I did live in the country for a few years as a child, and in the area where I lived, people really didn't keep dogs indoors. It was just the thing to do - to let your dogs run. But now that I think of it, their relationships with their dogs weren't as close as the relationships we have with our dogs. I was so young, I really didn't pay much attention.

The thing is - Max can jump HIGH. I really don't know how high he could go, but he's unbelievably athletic. We have a big 4WD truck, and one day after our walk we had the window closed halfway and he was still able to jump into it from the ground. And he digs craters halfway to China. So - we couldn't have a great big fenced in area for him to romp in. The logistics are just too much. It's either freedom or containment for him - no in-betweens.

[stacwase]

You know - I just had a thought!!!! There's an old barn foundation on the property. The foundation is very deep and there's NO WAY that Max could dig under it. I'll bet we could build a really secure kennel on that foundation, which would hold even Max! Then we could let his little friends come in to play with him. We were going to use the foundation for a greenhouse, but I think this would be a better use.

[4 Dog Mother]

If you have taught your dogs to come on command, there may be a way to have a bit of both worlds. You could leave them in a fenced area when you cannot watch them and let them run free when you can. Dazzi is very good about staying in the area we are in and coming back when we say that is far enough. I often let her free especially when I am in the back yard working on the flower beds. She can roam but is close enough that I can call her back from whatever trouble she may be in.

And yes, I think a lot of farm dogs get to roam because the owners don't see them as family members but animals that can be replaced without much thought or grief.

[stacwase]

Originally posted by 4 Dog Mother
If you have taught your dogs to come on command, there may be a way to have a bit of both worlds. You could leave them in a fenced area when you cannot watch them and let them run free when you can. Dazzi is very good about staying in the area we are in and coming back when we say that is far enough. I often let her free especially when I am in the back yard working on the flower beds. She can roam but is close enough that I can call her back from whatever trouble she may be in.

And yes, I think a lot of farm dogs get to roam because the owners don't see them as family members but animals that can be replaced without much thought or grief.

I've taught them to come on command, but I don't think I could count on them doing it if they were preoccupied with something. I could trust Jake but Max would get focused on a squirrel or rabbit or something and that would be it.

The people who live out there now use their dogs to keep wild animals off the property. You can't have a garden out there unless you have a way to keep the deer away from it. They probably keep the small critters away from the chickens, too. I don't know why their dogs don't roam. They just don't! There's a farm about a mile away that has a border collie who helps out with the cows (keeps the coyotes away from the calves etc.). He stays put - doesn't roam at all. Maybe that's because he's a working dog and takes his job very seriously.

[countrycowgirl]

i live out in the country but my dogs know that they are not supposed to go any futher than my grandmothers house but i tought this to them as soon as i got them as puppys the only problem with bringing a city dog to the countryis that they get all of this freedom and they will go insane if you don't gradully intoduce it to them and let them KNOW THAT THEY DO HAVE BOUNDRYS you have to make that clear to them i didn't really read what everyone else said i only read the first post so you might have already decided on something idk:confused: i hope this helps:D but i do take them on leash to alot of places but as for hunting no one really hunts around me other than my brother and my cousin so the dogs are ussally with them and you can buy brought neon orange sweeter collars and things:D

[Rio's_mum]

Were i live we have are surronded by woods, Rio knows not to go over the bonderies, we have hedges as fences apart from the 2 drive exits where there is no gate, she knows not to go past them, although somtimes in hot weather she takes herself into the woods stream, and when i call (shout,lol) she comes running back alll wet so i know where she go's,lol
Ky

[Corinna]

I want to just mention one thing the others haven't Having lived in both th e city and the country as well as remote.

Being a good dog neighbor, I really hate having eveery one elses dog in my yard. I now have a neighbor who lets hers roam., I have picked up more of her dogs poop than my own newfys. She now has a terrier mix who is a very nasty guy. He barks annd growls at me from MY carport,chases kids on their bikes. Please if you love your dogs and want to stay on good terms with your neighbors build a fence.

[Dot]

Why not an underground electronic fence????? They work, and the dog learns quickly where his boundaries are. There is no wire fence to dig under OR jump over, no chain on your dog, and his neighborhood friends can come in to play whenever they want. Also, whoever mows the grass in your family will appreciate not having a fence to trim around!

Most electronic fences can easily enclose an area of about 1/2 to one acre (or more!), and should give your dog plenty of room to run and play to his heart's content!

A search on Google brings up lots of websites for "electronic dog fences", i.e., http://www.online-dog-store.com/electronic_dog_fence.html

[anna_66]

Let me put my 2 cents in.

We live about 3-4 miles out in the country. No, our dogs do not roam. We have a fence & in additon we have an electric fence (both at the top and at the bottom). It only takes a couple of times for them to touch the fence to not get close to it again.
There is no way I would EVER let Roxey (or the other two) go without being in a fence or on a leash. She would be forever gone.

And also I totally agree with Corrina. We have a next door neighbor that now has 2 GSD's. They have an underground fence and I can't even being to tell you how many times they have gotten out:rolleyes: They are constantly at my fence (play)fighting with my dogs. They tear up my grass (among other things) and do their business in my yard. And who pays for it & cleans it up? ME!

About a month ago I finally had had enough and told them if I caught their dogs out again I would be calling the dog warden. Well, they put up a large outdoor kennel but they're rarly in it:(

So anyway, I say either put up a kennel or a dog run. Don't let them run free. All it takes is for one person to be going fast on your bad road & their gone.

[Dot]

Good point, Anna! A fence with an electric wire top and bottom is a great idea! I expect once the dog learns that it hurts to touch the fence, they will stay away even if the power should happen to be off temporarily.

[aly]

I agree that Anna's fencing solution works best. An invisible fence alone does have its problems. Even if a dog knows its boundaries, it may be very tempting to follow one of their friends right out of the yard. Then once they're out, they don't always come back in because they don't want to cross that fence line again - it isn't pleasant!

[Nomilynn]

I agree that an electric fence isn't enough on it's own. My friends had one for their dog, plus a 6 foot wooden fence. This dog could JUMP the fence, and he knew that the little zap lasted for only a second and he could still be free!! He would just jump over extra fast to get minimal zaps. I hope that you find a good solution that involves keeping the dogs contained, in some way, because it is way too risky to let them roam no matter where you live.

[stacwase]

When Jake was younger and more energetic, we tried one of those underground fences. He learned that if he ran through it really fast it wasn't too bad. Then he wouldn't come back through. I remember one time he wasn't anywhere near the fence and he started getting zapped by that collar. I had to run inside and switch it off. He was throwing up from it.

I know Max would do the same thing. A real electric fence might be a better idea - and you gave me an idea. I wouldn't have to worry about him digging under if I built a kennel (would have to be like 9 feet high!) and put the electric wire around the bottom of it.

With electric fences near the ground, what happens when it rains? Do you get zapped just standing on the wet ground?

[Toby's my baby]

Well, living on a farm I can tell you some of the things we do:

Our dogs are never, ever tied up, we live about 1/4 mile from the highway.

Our dogs never leave our yard, they are usually in sight unless they are chasing stuff in the woods.

Yes, more than likley they will be sprayed by a skunk :o, you just have to put up with it, (If you buy "Skunk Off" to wash your dog it helps a lot.)

No, when it rains outside it doesnt zap anything below it, just whatever tuches it.

[anna_66]

Originally posted by stacwase
With electric fences near the ground, what happens when it rains? Do you get zapped just standing on the wet ground?
Nope, we've never had a problem with anyone getting zapped!
The fence is about 5 inches from the ground. The only thing is we have to make sure we keep the dried leaves from gathering under it...they make a spark:eek:

[Twisterdog]

My sister has eight Siberian huskies that climb as well as dig. They were simply uncontainable before she put up electric wires at the top and bottom of the fence. Now none of them even try to get out.

I do not like "invisible" fences, for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, your dog wearing the collar may (or may not!!!) stay inside the "fence" ... but to all the other dog roaming free, the "fence" means nothing since they don't have the collar on. Those dogs might be aggresive, sick, carrying parasites, etc. Around here, too, we have rabid wildlife. Scary. Also, a lot of dogs simply learn to ignore the "fence" anyway, I've seen it happen ... especially if they see a cat or a rabbit running by. Plus, batteries go dead, etc. A real fence is SO much more secure.

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
Plus, batteries go dead, etc.

I heard a story of a border collie that would stay just in range of the fence to make the collar beep it's warning beep until it wore the battery down. Then it would leave.

Also a potentially bad thing that was brought up by a person on another board I visit, is if you have a sensitive dog it may become scared of the beep. She knew her dog was sound sensitive, but she didn't realize the cause until one day she was walking her dog through the city and they were waiting at a corner for the light to change. Well the lights were the ones that beep when it's okay to walk. At the first beep her dog threw itself to the ground and refused to go forward. She realized it was because the beep sounded like the warning beep from the electric fence.

I think the best thing would be a fence and wire it if you have to. If you have a big property then fence off a huge section. I don't think dogs need to roam free to be happy or else there are thousands upon thousands of dogs that are "unhappy" living in cities all over. I would fence in the area and then take the dogs for walks where they could explore and roam, as long as they have a good recall. :)

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Tonya]

I live and work in a fairly rural area. I will start by saying that there is something very beautiful about seeing a farm dog roam free. It warms my heart to watch them work and/or play. They always seem so content and happy...

I hope I make sense on this part...I also think that dogs born in the country have a different mentality then city dogs. For instance, my dad's neighbor dogs were all born out there. They have the sense to keep out of the tractor's way, to not lay in the road, to not get over excited when chasing a rabbit, etc...My dogs and my dad's dog, on the other hand, are besides themselves when they are off leash out there. They are so goofy and excited that they lose all logic. If I let my dogs roam free out at my dad's, they'd get themselves killed.

My dad does let his boxer loose when he's outside working in the yard. Slowly, but surely, Joe is getting some smarts and not acting so city like. BUT, he did get hit by a car before he figured that out.

If I was to move my dogs out into the country, I would more then likely keep them enclosed unless I was around. But, I have seen many many many dogs who were born and raised in the country lead wonderful lives free.

[Tonya]

p.s. Those electric fences totally work! I am working right on the property line of a ranch right now...I couldn't figure why the dogs were barking and growling so agressively towards me, yet they wouldn't come near me. I complimented the owner today on how well trained they were, and she told me that they didn't step off of the property because there is a buried fence.

[Glacier]

Originally posted by Tonya
p.s. Those electric fences totally work! I am working right on the property line of a ranch right now...I couldn't figure why the dogs were barking and growling so agressively towards me, yet they wouldn't come near me. I complimented the owner today on how well trained they were, and she told me that they didn't step off of the property because there is a buried fence.


They totally work for some dogs. My closest neighbor uses one to confine his dog, Daisy, who as most of you know spends almost all of her time at my place. If you live somewhere where it snows, the fence will be useless in the winter. The snow acts as an insulator and the dog doesn't get shocked. They also don't keep other dogs out. I know of several dogs who were injured by roaming dogs coming into the fenced area. I also know several who won't go home once they escape--don't want the second zap!

Just a couple other comments on this thread--i live in the boonies. Some of my dogs are allowed off-leash, but only when I am with them. THey are never allowed to roam free when I'm not around. I have huskies so not all of them are allowed off-leash. Some would vanish into the bush and never come home given the opportunity.

We have had a few encounters with porcupines. There is nothing cheap or easy about porcupine quill removal. Most dogs don't learn and keep going back. My average bill for quill removal has been around 300 bucks. Muskwa almost lost an eye two years ago when he took the tail of a porcy across the face. he later needed surgery to have a migrating quill removed from his ankle joint. My dad's GSD had to be put down after a quill migrated into his brain! it was not pretty! The quills break under the skin and move throughout the body. Just because you can't see any doesn't mean they aren't there!

One of local area residents shoots any dog that comes on his property. Because he has horses, he can do that legally. doesn't even have to prove they were harassing the horses. A dog loose on his land is dead!

We don't have that much vehicle traffic around us, but every year a few dogs die after being hit by quads or snowmobiles. Just because there aren't cars around doesn't mean your dog won't get run over.

Country life comes with it's own set of hazards for dogs. Dogs under 35 pounds are easy prey for a coyote. Dogs of any size are easy for a wolf! Hobo and Diesel are the only dogs I've ever heard of who survived a wolf encounter. You don't even want to know what the bill has been for that! I've had a bear circle my dog run and try to take down the door to my house. A kick from a moose or deer will kill a dog instantly.

Build a fence and find a safe place/way to let your dog have supervised off-leash time.

[wolf_Q]

Since Melissa lives with her parents and her dad won't put up a fence, she went and got one of those underground electric fences for Lady. It worked for a few months, then Lady decided the little zap was worth the escape. Now Melissa has to keep her on a tie-out as before. They don't work for every dog.

I don't think its a good idea at all to just let dogs roam free. Now if you are WITH them and they have a good recall (and far away from traffic) that's a different story...but just letting them roam while you are gone? No way, that's too dangerous for the dog and rude to neighbors IMO.

[aly]

Originally posted by Tonya
I hope I make sense on this part...I also think that dogs born in the country have a different mentality then city dogs. For instance, my dad's neighbor dogs were all born out there. They have the sense to keep out of the tractor's way, to not lay in the road, to not get over excited when chasing a rabbit, etc...

Even though dogs born in the country may acquire better senses and street-smarts, it doesn't make them safe. There are still dozens of possibilies of trouble they could get into that would hurt or kill them.

Its just never a good thing to do.

[chocolatepuppy]

My dogs have a fence and will never run free. I live on the outskirts of a small town and we do have a lot of wild life here as well as people who would do harm to them. I don't understand why people think dogs aren't happy unless they're running free when I can't cook dinner without a 65lb and 90lb dog under my feet! To me they are happiest when they're with you. My nerves could never handle the thought of them running free, anywhere.